Proposal “green-candle“ (Closed)Back

Title:Green Candle DFO: Expansion Escrow Service (Audit trail added 2/20/2018)
Owner:greencandle_jeremy
Monthly amount: 191 DASH (11360 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (3 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-02-17 / 2018-05-17 (added on 2018-02-19)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 274 Yes / 328 No / 63 Abstain

Proposal description

Update

After feedback from the masternodes we have decided that opting for a flat operating cost rate would present a simpler funding target for masternodes to judge the proposal's merits on. If funded, we will run escrow services for contractors at no additional cost to the network. Thanks for your consideration.

Below is an audit trail outlining the payouts for each proposal we provided our escrow services for. It shows the full history of the Dash we received from the DAO and fees charged to proposal owners. 

https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf

It has come to our attention that there is some confusion about the history of Green Candle, how it has been funded so far and what it provides for the Dash ecosystem. We want to take this opportunity to lay out exactly how things have progressed to date, why things have progressed this way, and our plans going forward.

How has Green Candle been funded so far?

Green Candle has been privately funded.  All of this funding has gone to providing the operational components of this business.  

All Dash that have passed through our cold storage addresses has been disseminated to proposal owners as per existing contractual arrangements, used to pay contractors for services rendered, or held in trust for the network. The reasoning for this is because we were experimenting with different funding models and we did not want to move any funds without consensus from the network.  To be clear, all funds that we have collected since the creation of Green Candle remain in trust with Green Candle. It is our goal with this proposal to solidify the terms and funding model that we operate under so that we can either accept the Dash we are still holding in trust or disseminate it to the micro proposal or micro donation platforms.

What does building a digital currency escrow business require?
Building a digital foundation for an escrow business inside the ever changing digital currency ecosystem is not a small undertaking. It became clear to us in the beginning that in order to protect ourselves we would have to undertake a significant infrastructure build out and cleansing to make sure that the base environment for our escrow wallets was clean and could be relied on for our future needs.  We can’t speak in too many specifics for obvious security reasons but essentially we maintain remote location(s) with air-gapped machines that we can bundle the transactions on. The wallet addresses used for our escrow wallets are generated offline and then protected by our onsite and offsite data protection systems. Proposal funds flow into these offline cold storage addresses during the monthly operations. When the time comes to distribute the funds to proposal owners we do this by building the outgoing transaction offline and then those transactions are broadcasted to the dash network through a series of secure machines. Building out this environment took 6 months, required acquiring two secure storage locations, and required purchasing all the required hardware to create these backup systems and protection mechanisms. We are very proud of the environments that we have built to protect the networks funds.

Does Green Candle operate any masternodes?
Green Candle does not operate any masternodes. For a short period we were doing some testing for the network and that has since ceased. One of our current frustrations with the Dash masternode framework is the lack of active failover available for the hot end of remote masternodes when servicing the Dash network. As the payment value of each masternode reward continues to grow, knowing that your masternode is online and ready for payment has become essential for all masternode operators.

In the current configurational landscape it isn't possible to provide a high availability setup for a masternode remote end due to limitations of the dash core wallet. For this reason we began testing and developing a solution that would allow for masternode remote ends, to get as close as possible, to a multiple remote end setup. We spent several months testing these theories on testnet and were finally given the opportunity to test them live on mainnet during the Dec-Jan cycle in which we were holding more than 1000 dash in a single funding lane for the entire month. This gave us a great testing ground to prove our work on testnet live in production on mainnet with real data.

During this cycle we were able to perform 2 hot failovers of the masternode remote ends without losing our place in the payment queue. Our first failover happened when we got inside the top 1000 of the masternode list and the second failover occurred when we were at position 250 in the list. Both fail-overs happened successfully and our node was not dropped out of the list. Being able to perform this type of livenet testing with the funds in that funding lane was very beneficial to our research and development departments.

With funding for operational expenses in place, we would be able to continue to formalize these results and others and bring them to the network so that the masternode owners could benefit from this research.  We don't have additional funding to do it out of pocket so we have decided to put this additional research on hold.

Why is there a legal fee in addition to monthly funding?

***Please refer to the update above - no additional legal fees will be charged.***


The legal fees are used to cover the direct legal costs of each proposal.  There are different requirements depending on the structure of the proposal (ie payment in Dash only, payment in Fiat, partial payment in Dash and Fiat etc).  Each type of proposal runs through a discovery process with our legal team.  We anticipate legal fees will lower once we have compiled more information to establish the most common practices.  We are concerned that without the additional legal fee per proposal, we run into a situation where we can only support a finite amount of proposals based off the current operational budget allocated for legal fees. By asking for the legal fees to be covered on a per proposal basis we ensure that funds are always available to sign a legally binding MOU with the proposal owner.

The monthly expense allows us to maintain a fund that can be used to go after contractors that have acted poorly against the Dash network. Contractors are less likely to cut corners or run away with funds altogether when they realize a legal entity exists that will make them accountable and pursue them through the courts if the need arises. Especially when they realize this entity has the required resources and advisers to purse these issues.               

What will happen with excess funds generated by the proposals?

Green Candle will disseminate excess funds from proposals through micro-donation and micro-proposal initiatives creating a positive feedback loop between the Dash treasury system including macro and micro proposals as well as micro donations.

Conclusion
We have often been asked about ROI for Dash to support Green Candle. We think it’s important to look back at what we have accomplished using our own personal funds and limited resources.

In six months we have established a real world entity that will go after contractors who act nefariously with a war chest of resources to make sure they are accountable. No such entity has undertaken that responsibility despite there being clear calls for it in the past.

We have also used personal resources to develop systems that will reduce friction and errors in the proposal submission process. We have donated resources to DashDirect and helped get their micro donation system off the ground. We have worked with ATM manufacturer General Bytes to bring Dash to their platform so it’s supported on all their ATM and POS models. We have worked tirelessly to help Dash achieve first mover advantage as it penetrates Venezuela with Dash being added to one of the largest exchanges in Venezuela through our work with Colibit. We helped Dash launch its first foray into professional sports with the sponsorship of MMA, and now cryptocurrency ambassador, Rory MacDonald became the first professional athlete to accept a cryptocurrency as payment. We have joined forces with Dash Boost to help bring our Grant Center idea to fruition and are excited to see the launch of the Dash Boost MVP product that will bring micro proposals to the Dash ecosystem.

We believe that the results from all the work we have done with our own funds for the Dash blockchain will have a long-lasting impact and we are really looking forward to being able to expand these offerings with a larger operational budget.



TLDR: The purpose of this proposal is to secure 3 months of operational costs for Green Candle Inc. to continue providing escrow services on behalf of the Dash network.  

Green Candle works to fill the void that exists in the Dash Network by providing the necessary escrow services and support required to achieve long-term success.

We saw the need to create a bridge between the Dash network and the greater business communities that would help shape the future of Dash. After months of planning, discussion and encouragement from our peers, Green Candle Inc. was incorporated on August 26th, 2017.

As the value of Dash continues to grow, it is clear that trusted escrow services are a required component for its continued success.  In our short time, we have successfully escrowed over 4100 Dash on behalf of the Dash Network.

Green Candle protects the network and the proposal owner by ensuring that both parties perform according to the provisions outlined in the signed MOUs.  These signed agreements protect the Dash community from being exploited and help to prevent fraud.  

We are requesting 3 months funding for operational costs. This will allow Green Candle to scale to meet the needs of the proposal system and its members.  We will submit for new funding at the end of the 3 month term giving the network a chance to evaluate our work. This commitment from Dash will allow Green Candle to continue essential services, secure proposal funds and mitigate risk on behalf of the network. We will continue to draw from the initial funds until they are 1 month from being depleted.

Key Points

  • Green Candle is requesting 3 months of funding for operations.
  • Green Candle will act an an impartial, trusted 3rd party to the Dash network when asked to provide escrow services.
  • All funds for each proposal will be held in their own funding lane.  The proposal fee will be made available for return after the proposal passes and the proposal owner has signed the MOU.  All remaining funds will be dispensed from the funding lane upon completion of the deliverables outlined in the MOU.  
  • Remaining funds held in escrow from a proposal lane will be disseminated through micro-donation and micro-proposal initiatives.
  • Funds held in trust during a proposal will not be used to operate Masternodes at any time.

Value

  • Fully operational and compliant escrow service for Dash blockchain maintained in Canada
  • Added layer of protection provided to Masternode network for proposals that are escrowed through GC. All GC proposals require the signing of a binding memo of understanding between the proposal owner and Green Candle Inc.
  • First company to handle compliant escrow services outside of Dash Core Group Inc.
  • Proven track record handling large, medium and small proposals
  • Consulting with top law/accounting firms to get legal opinions on all proposals we handle (Deloitte)

Proven Track Record


GAP - 2000 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-gap
General Bytes - 180 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/gb-201701
Dash Aerosports -1366 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/gc-dash-aerosports
Rory MacDonald - 330 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-for-the-belt
Colibit - 74.02 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/gc-colibit2
Dash Boost - 158.01 Dash - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/gc-dash-boost

Escrow Fee Structure
UPDATE: After feedback from the masternodes we have decided that opting for a flat operating cost rate would present a simpler funding target for masternodes to judge the proposal's merits on. If funded, we will run escrow services for contractors at no additional cost to the network. Thanks for your consideration!


Budget

Administration - 54
Operations - 14
Development - 7
Infrastructure - 6
Legal - 80
Rental Space - 11 
Accounting - 5
Insurance - 2
Contingency - 10
Proposal Fee - 5.01

3 Month Proposal = 567 + 5.01 = 572.01 / 3 = 190.67 Dash

Pre-Proposal Forum Thread:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-green-candle-inc.29018/

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

Submit comment
 
0 points,4 years ago
At GENERAL BYTES we met with Jeff (Twitter: @coingun), one of the team members at Green Candle (you got to love that company name!) and decided to get our Dash proposal managed and escrowed by them. We are very satisfied with the services provided by Green Candle and think this proposal should be funded and let me explain why...

At GENERAL BYTES we consider ourselves to be cryptocurrency veterans but we did not have that reputation in the DASH community at the time and given that several Dash ATM proposals turned sour before, the Dash community was not immediately unanimously excited about our Dash ATM proposal. (Can't blame them really!)

At the same time, we found that creating a DASH proposal is not that easy for those not initiated in the Dash community and sending in a proposal comes at a considerable (non-refundable) cost so this leaves no margin for errors.

For this, and the reason mentioned above we decided at the time to have Green Candle manage our proposal. They helped us tremendously in guiding us through the proposal process and the escrow services provided by Green Candle helped ensure the Dash community GENERAL BYTES is for real, the project deliverables would be met and basically removed 100% of the risk for the Dash community.

At GENERAL BYTES we think that ideally, all Dash proposals should work this way (escrow) as it ensures all funds are correctly allocated and removes any risk for the community. This will allow newcomers to the Dash community (like us) to contribute without any risk (if they do not deliver, Green Candle will not pay out) and will help attract more companies to the Dash ecosystem. At the same time, escrow will prevent proposal monies being wasted and will ensure that scammers will look elsewhere.

We understand for some the idea of having a centralized company like Green Candle handle escrow in a decentralized network might sound strange but removing 100% of the risk to the community by providing escrow is just too good of an opportunity to pass by.

We are giving this proposal a big thumbs up!
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4 points,4 years ago
MNO Australia.
Voting YES. but almost abstained due to the high legal costs (mainly)..but you have done your best to explain.
https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf
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2 points,4 years ago
Hi MNOs, there is still a day more and something can be done. Green Candel has done a lot for improving the Dash community and should not be turned down at this moment, if anyone doubt their operations, maybe a second look should be given to their update: GC has freely hosted paywalls for young talented community members to fundraise donations for mini projects, they are currently escrowing for the DashDirect project on weekly basis disbursing donations of about 5,440 USD a week and has never failed in this regard. If GC is not up to the task, why spare time for things that improves the network with a penny from the DAO. We all love Dash and want to see Dash grow, we should support things like this. DFOs are needed. It sucks, I am not a boss holder and maybe no where near it but we all have a common interest which we are working for, let’s protect it. Cheers GC team and keep doing the good things you do. It hurts but I hope MNOs see this well.

Cryptolib, the humble servant
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0 points,4 years ago
node
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5 points,4 years ago
Well looks like we are going to let greencandle die after they spent loads of their own money trying to improve the budget system. I agree that some things weren't handled in the best way but they were still positive addition.
Really sad to see. I just hope all the projects depending on greencandle will be able to continue without it.
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6 points,4 years ago
I’m starting to get the impression that some MNOs are more interested in playing politics than actually getting down to the serious business of ‘directing’ the build out and development of our own infrastructure.. we should be focusing on funding DFOs such as this within the ecosystem, not using our votes as political statements and/or to further other individual interests within the network..

If MNOs were voting in the best interests of dash this proposal would be passing easily, especially after the update and clarifications. What gives fellow nodes?

Walter
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-2 points,4 years ago
Thats a risk you take when you spend personal funds, without a pre-approved proposal.
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7 points,4 years ago
come on MNOs , greencandle has shown us that there intentions and efforts are strictly to better dash and the people who care about it like you and I. lets continue to show them our support, i'm sure they will continue to help the growth of dash and the straight of its community. we need more people like greencandle, so i say show this proposal some support already. its like buying a lotto ticket and refusing the extra. dash being the ticket and greencandle being the extra, everyone buys the extra
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5 points,4 years ago
I kindly ask that all MNOs who have abstained leave a comment and let me know why. Your feedback is what helps us to grow and move in the right direction for the network. Thank you.
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7 points,5 years ago
For what its worth after thinking about it for a long time I have changed my vote to yes on this proposal. The flat operating cost with (finally) receiving an update from them pushed me over the edge into a yes.

That being said I still have many concerns about how Green Candle conducts its escrow (the GB incident specifically) and I hope in the future they bring proposals that are less about marketing to those who are already aware of Dash.

At the end of the day, Dash is stronger with Green Candle out there looking for opportunities and already being set up to deal with the legal and tax implications that pursuing those opportunities may create.
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0 points,4 years ago
FYI: The 'incident' was caused by the dashj library we used for implementing Dash into the GB platform. Implementing instantsend using the dashj library is not possible at this time as the instandsend implementation in dashj was only done partly (instant send, but no instant receive) and although we are still looking into it it is quite tricky to implement without a working library, especially given the ATMs are considered high-risk and any error will lead to a financial loss for the operator so there is really no room for errors here. We also found that instandsend will need 6 confirmations on the network to work, not ideal when you've just got some Cash from an ATM and want to spend that instant as it will make the end user wait for 6 confirmations before being able to spend using instandsend. Hope this clears any confusion on this matter and shows that it is not unwillingness from us but rather a lack of proper libraries to work with.
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6 points,5 years ago
@name3 Thank you very much for your comment and support. Your participation throughout this process has made our proposal stronger and I encourage other MNOs to take your lead.

Regarding your concerns over GB, I'm not sure if you read it in the audit trail, but we did not release all of their funds because they were late with one milestone. There are still 90 Dash remaining in trust until it is completed. Here are the addresses verifying this:

https://insight.dashevo.org/insight/address/XvQuRTnEUvBdgeUUn7a4N4mxXRWgTyCG8q - 30 Dash in trust

https://insight.dashevo.org/insight/address/XeNoyvD4VnSvLBQekPHvUSpFfAFdxJ3Cqm - 60 Dash in trust

I recognize that we did a poor job communicating that we did not release these funds because the milestone was not yet achieved. This is one area where will focus on improving immediately.

MNOs should know that we are listening and we will continue to work to earn your trust and support.
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0 points,5 years ago
Might be a good idea to have a section on your website that shows the current status of all the escrowed proposals. Or better yet but all that info on DashWatch when it becomes available.
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5 points,5 years ago
Looks good to me. Thanks for listening to feedback and updating the proposal accordingly. You guys add value to the network. Thumbs up on this one.
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4 points,5 years ago
@Kbu66 Thank you very much for the support!
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0 points,5 years ago
Can you say a little about the largest budget item, Administration? I'd like to know a little more about how it breaks down. Thank you :)
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7 points,5 years ago
You guys have consistently delivered (especially now that you've released comprehensive financial data), greatly appreciate the work you do and value you add to the network.
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7 points,5 years ago
@Arthyron Thank you , I really appreciate the effort MNOs are making to show their support for Green Candle. I am grateful for the feedback I have to received so far.
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7 points,5 years ago
Nice update regarding the elimination of escrow
fees. This squashes the double dip argument as well as will save the network money in the future.

You have my vote!
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4 points,5 years ago
@JGCMiner Thank you very much! We will keep going until we remove any doubt that we are here to serve the MNOs and the best interest of the network.
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10 points,5 years ago
After feedback from the masternodes we have decided that opting for a flat operating cost rate would present a simpler funding target for masternodes to judge the proposal's merits on. If funded, we will run escrow services for contractors at no additional cost to the network. Thanks for your consideration!
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8 points,5 years ago
Thanks for the update and especially the report on the previous proposals -- that has pushed me from maybe-support to definitely-support.

It looks like the budget will be tight this month though, what do you plan to do if this does not pass?
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7 points,5 years ago
@TroyDASH thank you very much for your support. I realize that I should have provided the audit trail from the onset. Now that it is out there, I hope that MNOs will review it and reconsider their vote.

I am thinking positively and I will continue to do everything I can to answer questions and make myself available to the MNOs.
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0 points,5 years ago
Your audit trail should be on your website, updated weekly, and not in a pdf.
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7 points,5 years ago
Voted yes - thank you for trying to make the Dash Network better.
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9 points,5 years ago
After going through the update on this budget proposal and reading the comments, i decided to give this budget proposal my support.
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9 points,5 years ago
@qwizzie Thank you very much for taking the time to read the report. Our hope is that more MNOs will read it and recognize that we have done what we said we would all along - do what is in the best interest of the network and protect the treasury funds. Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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10 points,5 years ago
Thank you Jeremy for posting the Audit Trail. My conclusions:
-Audit trail is squeaky clean.
-Funds acquired through contributing proposals to the network haven't been touched and will be allocated to projects in the network.
-All private funding so far (out of pocket) and working tirelessly to do what's best for the Dash Network.
-Won't sponsor proposal fees for projects they escrow to eliminate any chance of appearance of conflict of interest.
-Changing model to non-profit to eliminate any waste due to income tax
-I think this is too good so I can see why people have a hard time understanding the situation

Bottom line: Funding this would allow Dash to have a professional, independent, third-party, public-facing entity that can engage with minor and major institutions to grow the Dash Project. It will hold the project owners legally responsible and accountable for 3% of the monthly budget.
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11 points,5 years ago
@InstantKarmaFund, thank you for summarizing so eloquently, we really appreciate the support. I don't fault MNOs for the cold welcome. Looking back there were some obvious steps we should have taken, and much sooner. We are learning everyday and we are working hard to improve on our communication. Hopefully more MNOs see it the same way you do and we find the support we need to continue serving the network.
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-3 points,5 years ago
Where are the rewards from the mn you were running? Dont see them, did you keep the rewards?
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5 points,5 years ago
@Krum6653 Thank you for the comment. You may have missed it because it was listed at the bottom of the audit trail, but here is the address where the rewards from running the MN are held:

http://insight.dashevo.org/insight/address/XxXaoFrYDY7fdYZ1SWYTRCRBigX6Jx1kZD

All Dash that have passed through our cold storage addresses has been disseminated to proposal owners as per existing contractual arrangements, used to pay contractors for services rendered, or held in trust for the network. The reasoning for this is because we were experimenting with different funding models and we did not want to move any funds without consensus from the network. To be clear, all funds that we have collected since the creation of Green Candle remain in trust with Green Candle. It is our goal with this proposal to solidify the terms and funding model that we operate under so that we can either accept the Dash we are still holding in trust or disseminate it to the micro proposal or micro donation platforms.
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-7 points,5 years ago
This is exhorbitant for an escrow service. If you want to start an escrow company pay for it yourself. Escrow companies make money off of escrow fees. Dash treasury should not have to start your company. Voting NO.
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6 points,5 years ago
@viamontelane Thank you for your comment. Green Candle has been 100% privately funded so far. This is the first time Green Candle has proposed funding for our own operations. We are submitting it after spending 6 months figuring out what the network requires and how we can best provide it.

The audit trail that we provided demonstrates that all funds received from the DAO have either been disseminated to their appropriate contractors, or they remain in trust. This can be verified if you check the addresses we provided at the bottom of the audit trail.

One of the proposals we experimented with charged a fee for escrow. The results pointed out that there were better ways of operating that were more beneficial for the network. A company who is only concerned with charging fees will be more concerned about its bottom line then anything else. If, however, you provide the resources it needs to operate, it can focus on doing its job of making sure contractors do their job.
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-9 points,5 years ago
I have read a very disturbing statement from DashAerosports about Greencandle extending his payout duration and needs clarification. Since this involves 0.6 Million $, it is important to discuss here.

"This is what dashaerosports posted-*Our proposal was for 4 months. Through Greencandle's escrow service and adhering to milestones and moving average payout based In USD.... we are about to request zero funds for at least 5 more months of continued work for the network. Dash Aero's entire 1 year cost could be within the 4 month proposal from months ago."

This means that Dashaerosports will be paid for more months than sanctioned. Given the kind of roi from that proposal, it should be put to vote.

The Dash Aerosports proposal was presented to the community for $400000 and not 1366 Dash. As an escrow provider, you have no business to be extending contracts and payouts of your own will. If you pay Dashaerosports any more than the $400,000 approved, it will be total breach of contract.

GC has no business to be interfering in community decisions.
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6 points,5 years ago
I'm confirming that Dash AeroSports funding is only for 4 months. We were putting in another proposal next month for a continuation without any requested funding draw from the treasury. We were going to request that the MN's allow us to draw from the escrowed funds to the exact formula used which created a store of value for the Dash network. We covered this plan within the original proposal and we are adhering to the agreement set between GC, Dash Aero and our MN's.

We were going to wait till next month for the proposal submission, however we will do that proposal this month to make sure there is no question of our commitment to the original proposal agreement.

Regards,

Scott
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10 points,5 years ago
@asics766 Thank you for the comment. @Name3 is 100% correct. The plan was to submit a proposal asking to extend funding. Green Candle will not release any additional funds without explicit consent from the network. As you can see in the audit trail, all funds remain in their funding lanes and will continue to until the network approves them for another use.
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12 points,5 years ago
I believe your worry is unfounded. Both Aerosports and Green Candle have stated they will put it up for a vote before more funding is released, they even state as much in their proposal audit that was posted this morning.

I believe what is meant by the quoted statement is that they will be requesting 0 Dash from the network in their next proposal.
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12 points,5 years ago
@name3 Thank you for clarifying that point. You are absolutely right. Green Candle will not spend any of the networks funds without a definitive yes from the MNOs. All of the funds we managed have been accounted for. We provided the addresses so members can check and do their own due diligence. I don't know if we have your support yet @name3 but I am not giving up until we get it.
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6 points,5 years ago
Greencandle, You want $130k a month to run a escrow service and make fees on top? What sort of a bureaucracy are you trying to establish here?. No thank you.

The track record on your escrow service remains completely abysmal tbh. You have taken in over 4000 dash in funding and we havent yet seen a single audited account for it. When people asked for accounts, you responded with how selfless you have worked without money and that MNs should look at the public blockchain if they want accounts.

That is the equivalent of telling people to take a flying leap to be honest..

The moment you hear an accountant talking about trust, you know there is something wrong and you still haven't come up with the accounts despite claiming that you will. The so called trust is eroding with each day the accounts are not made public. The money that has gone into your system is not yours and the least you should have done is to provide an updated statement of account to allow proper scrutiny.

There are many escrow options available like theinstantkarmafund and demo, dash core is still doing it. I dont see any of them asking for $130K a month in expenses.

Also the fact that it is ridiculous to spend 130k on escrow and open up an unlimited expense account for your comfort.

I am completely against the treasury funding your proposal and certainly not greencandle, based on your track record so far.
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11 points,5 years ago
You see that Jeff has added a robust auditable trail/document? There is a lot of information there. Please go study it. Thanks,

solarguy
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10 points,5 years ago
Thank you for the support @Solarguy. It absolutely took us too long to release this data and we have learned a valuable lesson. We recognize the need for regular communication with the network and we will do significantly better going forward. Nonetheless, the audit trail clearly identifies the funding we have received from the DAO and where it has been sent. We look forward to discussing the findings with the community so that we can figure out the best path forward together.
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0 points,5 years ago
Sort of makes sense , i dont get what this extra money is for , they already get the escrow fee if i am not wrong
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0 points,5 years ago
You were also looking for escrow, what was your experience like?
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0 points,5 years ago
dash core has offered to offer escrow for me , things are going a bit slow however
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0 points,5 years ago
Escrow should move fast. Wrong to keep harassing proposal owners with escrow demands and then creating a bottleneck for them to get one after paying 5 dash. Explains the kind of proposals on vote..
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-1 point,5 years ago
Agree with krum 100%. This is an expensive, inefficient bureaucratic exercise. Escrow shouldn't be a must-do. Let's avoid centralization whenever possible especially if we have to pay $60k/mo on top of it all.

How about Core gets multisig working for proposals....
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5 points,5 years ago
Do y'all have updates on how the Dash was spent on previous proposals and ongoing proposals?
Is there a website that tracks these projects? Like how much is left and how much individual contractors have been paid month to month.
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10 points,5 years ago
@Mastermined, yes we have the information available to view at: https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf
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2 points,5 years ago
Happy to get the ball rolling.

solarguy
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0 points,5 years ago
This is quite a high one! I believe past proposals have been paid out to GC. If true, what was the outcome and what was the funds being spent on? Can we have a breakdown please?
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8 points,5 years ago
@acidburn, Thank you for the comment. Here is the audit trail of all the funds that have come to us: https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf
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0 points,5 years ago
Just ask Dash Core and they'll do escrow for free. I would pay $1000-2000 for escrow, $130k you're just being stupid. Voting NO, thanks for the 5 Dash donation!
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-2 points,5 years ago
Unless I have just overlooked it, I have seen no progress reports for any of the proposals escrowed by Green Candle, I have seen no willingness to take responsibility for mess ups (as was the case with the disastrous GB launch), and to be honest most of the proposals that Green Candle brings to the network are poorly conceived marketing schemes that do little other stoke the egos of people that you look up and provide eye candy for people who already know about Dash (GAP, Aerosports, and Rory).

I truly apologize if this comes across as rude but just because you are an active part of the community doesn't mean that I will hold my tongue when what I see as a bad proposal is put up to the network.
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10 points,5 years ago
@name3 First, thank you for your comments and for being part of the discussion. I agree with the fact that up until today we had not released a detailed report and that it was long overdue. This is now available to view at: https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf

I would never expect a free pass from anyone simply because we have helped others previously. I want MNOs to understand that GC has been 100% privately funded up until this point. We are not asking to be paid back for the past 6 months of work and personal investments. We have not even claimed a single Dash from the fees we charged. It is all still there and anyone that doubts my statements is welcome to check for themselves on the blockchain. We provided the addresses so there shouldn't be too much difficulty to confirm.

We tested a few different ways of managing proposals so we could figure out the best way to operate and benefit the network. We are here to serve the community and we put our money where our mouth was. We could only afford to do it for so long and now we are asking for funding to continue.

We understand your concern about the lack of transparency, but now that all of the information is out in the open we want to continue the conversation with you to see where else you think we can improve. We have never claimed to be perfect, but we are trying to be receptive to as many community members as possible because we know we are all working towards the same goal.

Regardless of our differing opinions, we are thankful to be able to have a respectful conversation with you, thank you.
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9 points,5 years ago
I don’t disagree with all of your post, but how can you fault GAP, Aerosports, or Rory?

I mean GAP reached a huge audience via RT, Scott (Aerosports) just got us FanDuel (among the many other things he has done), and after seeing Rory, Chael put in a proposal that very well might get us coverage in mainstream sports media.

Those proposals have objectively been a success. There may be reasons to criticize GC, but those proposals are not it, IMO.
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-4 points,5 years ago
Has GAP reached a huge audience? I haven't seen any data about the number of people that watched that show. I would love to see what it says, honestly. I would love to see any evidence of the return the network got from any of the mentioned proposals. Hell even for example seeing how the number of people who google Dash changed after Rory fight would at least be something that we could justify having spent the money on.

Yes Scott got us FanDuel, which is great and I happily voted yes on that proposal, but that is an entirely different matter than his proposal that Green Candle escrow'd. I was very vocal in my opinion on that proposal so I won't bother re-writing my criticism of it here.

I am skeptical of how big an impact the Rory proposal had on the Chael proposal.

Perhaps that last point is unfair, but even if we accept that the other points stand and are good enough reasons to vote No.
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10 points,5 years ago
Name3,

Thank you for your support of the FanDuel project.

I think its really great that your opinion of our Aero project didn't influence the FanDuel project. I thank you for your open-minded and analytical thoughts focusing on benefiting Dash's future.

Regarding Dash AeroSports; The escrow has proven to be an amazing store of value for the treasury. Our proposal was for 4 months. Through Greencandle's escrow service and adhering to milestones and moving average payout based In USD.... we are about to request zero funds for at least 5 more months of continued work for the network. Dash Aero's entire 1 year cost could be within the 4 month proposal from months ago. (Dash AeroSports at zero cost to Dash)

We've worked closely with greencandle both as an escrow and advisor. We discuss our events and on-going actions not only to satisfy the escrow but also because Jeff and Jeremy have proven to be very affluent business development consultants.

Greencandle has made our (Dash Aero) success their quiet successes as well. There is a lot going on unseen and unmentioned. Greencandel and Dash AeroSports are working 7 days a week to help what we all want.

Greencandle requested and provided guidance for Demo Incubator Inc. to enter their escrow space. Their statement to my "why" was, "to provide decentralization to the escrow system." These guys are truly living to our (dash) values!

Dash Aero did not believe we needed to escrow following a 6 month over-achieving proposal. However, GC and Dash Aero went against the easy route to show "store of value" within the escrow system. With so many proposals with great intentions, fizzing out to non-production, GC provided an example of the payment for work, not a payment and then hopefully work.

Greencandle did not know I would post this. I was worried about perceived "conflict of interest". However, honesty should never be considered a "conflict of interest". Greencandle made Dash AeroSports stronger and benefits Dash greatly.

Regards,
Scott
@DashRacer
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-3 points,5 years ago
If all of this is true then communicate that to the community with updates! How am I supposed to justify voting yes on any Green Candle proposal (or Dash Aerosports proposal) when there is never any follow up?

And don't get it twisted, I think escrow is incredibly important for the Dash ecosystem, but I have huge concerns about how Green Candle conducts their escrow services.

For Instance, scroll up and read from the January 23, 2018 post from Cryptoteller and then read until the end of the thread, then with a straight face tell me that is a good provider of escrow. They just get defensive and refuse to take any responsibility for one of their projects being completely bungled.

https://discordapp.com/channels/370148711088652288/392505485988986880

Then add to that that we as a community have no idea if/when payouts are happening, what milestones are checked for, or any details at all.
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0 points,5 years ago
To be clear I meant the lass point in my original comment.
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-5 points,5 years ago
I desperately want to see an expansion of the escrow ecosystem, and I want to see it become a default feature of any new proposal going forward. However, You're already charging folks for escrow, and you're asking for pork-barrel levels of funding.

I should also be able to go to your website and see the full list of your projects, historical and current, along with timelines and milestones met, in near-real time.

It should be very transparent, to the point someone like DFN could write news articles based on the fully-transparent progress.

The Dash network should be receiving some great information from so much money.

I'm voting No today.
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9 points,5 years ago
@Unstoppable thank you for your comments. We completely agree that the information you requested needs to be readily available. It is now at: https://greencandle.io/proposal-audit-trail.pdf
I hope that you have time to review it and reconsider your vote. I want to earn it.
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-4 points,5 years ago
More escrow means more centralization and more situations like this where there is much bigger risk at point of failure. There is no account for 4000+ dash now and no chance of getting it either. I understand accountabilty but if everything has to go through escrow then what the point of the DAO. I support escrow for very big proposals but telling everyone to get escrow first makes little sense..
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3 points,5 years ago
If a PO intends to complete their proposal they have nothing to fear from escrow. Escrow is not centralization. We have Core, InstantKarmaFund, DemoIncubator, and GreenCandle. There will be more in the future. Hopefully they all work to document their projects better in the future. Perhaps a big No vote here is what is needed to get GreenCandle on track. They make enough money to hire some admins to post daily updates on all escrowed projects.
There is also a new thread on dash.org with someone proposing a system of decentralized exchange. All these efforts are going to evolve, eventually resulting in a very efficient, transparent system that provides rock solid accountability.
Surely you can see the big picture here.
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0 points,5 years ago
Sorry "decentralized escrow"
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-2 points,5 years ago
Either you provide your services for free and get paid directly from the treasury through proposals like this or you fund yourself through escrow fees. Not both.

Voting No for now.
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11 points,5 years ago
Okay, I talked a bunch with coingun and vancoinman. And will be changing my votes to Yes. So for all the excess funds they received are just sitting there cause most mnos didn't like the idea of that money going to greencandle. In the future, it will be used for micro-proposal and I hope as a buffer for any other escrowed proposal.

During all that time the operating costs have been paid by them from their own money. So they are now asking for funds to pay for operations.

I think making this distinction between funds gotten through escrowed proposal and funds for operation costs makes sense. Since you need a safety buffer for the former if you have the distinction that is not an issue as any excess will just go into a future proposal or micro proposal.
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-3 points,5 years ago
So your suggesting we fund them to run their operations and they charge potential proposers fees for doing escrow?

Im sorry but thats called double dipping one or the other only
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5 points,5 years ago
@Realmrhack, we have heard from MNOs and have changed our model to request monthly funding only. No additional fees. Hopefully this removes your concern about double dipping. We are receptive to the community and will continue to listen so we can fine tune our plans.
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3 points,5 years ago
Well if the fees that are only meant for legal costs don't also cover the operating costs they have to pay for that somehow. So do you want them to increase the fees so they also cover general operating costs?

I think it's better to have a legal fee per proposal as those costs are directly linked to the proposal. And pay for general operating costs through the treasury.
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-6 points,5 years ago
No it allows mysterious fees and expenses to appear

It should be one or the other

1) fees from escrow
2) from treasury

Not both.
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-4 points,5 years ago
Their end goal should be to become self sufficient not a constant vacuum of funds
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0 points,5 years ago
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0 points,5 years ago
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0 points,5 years ago
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0 points,5 years ago
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0 points,5 years ago
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-7 points,5 years ago
Once again an abuse of process by green candle INTENTIONALLY submitting a rather large proposal last minute 10~ days before voting deadline

And then they ask for 135k a month to fund their operations when clearly as ive mentioned before and will mention again they are a FOR PROFIT business.

I do appreciate them finally being transparent about their fee structure.

1) no measured ROI on past projects
2) no statements of account ever provided.
3) intentionally submit proposals last minute to deprive MNO time to do their due dillegence
4)the whole time they've claimed to be so "pro-dash" and funding everything themselves now there asking for 400k over 3 months
5) I have proof that greencandle intentionally submit proposals with a larger Ask.
6) they claim funds will be held in trust and not used to run an MN that is false, as jeff aka coingun has confirmed last time.in public chat that they where running and MN and apparently asked to do so by core

i urge all MNO to take a serious look at this proposal and its skewed offerings and vote NO
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0 points,5 years ago
I am okay with them submitting now, upto a week in advance is okay but the rest of your points are valid. The lack of public accounts is very disturbing..
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-2 points,5 years ago
Agree, but the rest of his points are good.
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-6 points,5 years ago
I agree with you to vote NO on this.
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0 points,5 years ago
Test
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