Proposal “gc-dash-boost“ (Completed)Back

Title:Dash Boost: Expanding the Treasury's Reach
Owner:greencandle
One-time payment: 158 DASH (77108 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 158 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-01-17 / 2018-02-16 (added on 2018-01-07)
Votes: 704 Yes / 210 No / 6 Abstain

Proposal description

Dash Boost: Expanding the Treasury's Reach
TL;DR: Build a micro proposal system to enable low budget proposals 'mirco-proposals' access to funds outside of the traditional scope of the treasury.

  • Lower barrier to entry for submitting proposals due to lower fees
  • Increase in (micro) proposals which can unlock creativity and innovation
  • Implementing a democratic structure that puts decision making power in the hands of the broader community base
  • Adds well needed infrastructure to the Dash community
  • Puts unused GreenCandle funds into the community for the community voting with lower thresholds and more community involvement
  • 1 Dash Proposal Submission fee
  • 1 Dash = 1 Vote
  • This will start as an MVP that is built with community feedback. Please read the Tech Spec to understand what we already have planned and keep in mind that we are open to feedback to make this a product a success.
Proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11uGaDXOFttoWrlrBOPKKcqaNN90A2B2qhjvRr693UVM/
Tech Spec: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kw1KuD8ACD86FTmRdfldcDSTUnHg_iq0lM_LpO-hxf0/
Pre-proposal: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-dashboost-funding-small-projects.24031/


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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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1 point,2 months ago
you got my support GreenCandle !!
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5 points,2 months ago
I just got off the phone with Danny and was very impressed by what was said.
My first concern was seeing the price difference from the pre-proposal to the final proposal. I thought there was some weird 30DMA stuff going on but can assure everyone that is not the case on this proposal.

Danny and his team will be getting paid 50 Dash a month for 3 months (150) as long as they complete their goals.
Green candle will get a 3 Dash escrow fee and everyone who put up Dash for the proposal fee will get that back. Very clean, easy to understand, and consistent.

The project seems quite expensive but I don't know what it should cost so i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as we really need this ASAP. As long as they do what they say they can do and get this done in 3 months it will be money well spent IMO.
It will help smaller projects and make life easier for masternode owners who don't have the time to look into all the smaller (much needed) projects. For the masternode owners who have the time and skills to evaluate every proposal they will still have a vote on all these smaller projects. In fact everyone who has at least one Dash in their wallet will have a vote. As similar projects start up they have agreed to open source their tools which will help decentralize the entry points. We have to start somewhere.
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3 points,2 months ago
Nice chatting to you. We appreciate your support. Cheers, Danny
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2 points,2 months ago
Hey All,

I am the lead developer on DashBoost.

Having talked to some MNOs through the various channels I want to take this opportunity to clarify a few points. Namely:

The proposed weighted voting system; and
The availability of DashBoost to other regions/administrators.

The proposed weighted voting system
At present we are proposing that 1 Dash = 1 Vote.  This means that 2 Dash = 2 Votes.   Therefore, the more Dash you own the more weight you hold when voting on micro proposals.  This is similar in nature to that of the MNO voting structure only that it is on a sliding scale rather than having to have to minimum of 1000 Dash to ‘weigh’ in on the decision making.   We believe that this will encourage greater participation from the broader community base and will lead to proposals being better vetted while also reducing the onus on the MNOs to bear the full workload of the vetting process. 

Before casting votes a user will be required to verify that they own a wallet by signing a verified message on DashBoost.  A regular cron job will run to check to see how much Dash and voting weight a wallet has and will update votes accordingly.  This will also run at the exact time voting closes and will be an ‘on chain’ event where votes are locked, verifiable, and auditable by all. 

The last point that I will make on this item is that this is just our proposed starting point on this and we will ALWAYS be taking feedback on how we can improve this process.

The availability of DashBoost to other regions/administrators
This is a community project that will be funded by the community and will be 100% for the community.  If there is ever a requirement for the DashBoost infrastructure and codebase to be made available to other regions and sub communities then it will be made available.

The main point that I’m making here is that the community will always decide what happens in this domain.  If someone creates a proposal and references our codebase as a key component then pending that proposal being passed we will supply the code as per the request of the community. 


As always we invite the feedback, criticism, and suggestions from the community.  Please feel free to engage with me on discord @TechSquad

Happy voting day eve to all, 
TechSquad
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3 points,2 months ago
@techsquad was good having a call earlier thanks for clarifying alot of info look forward to your proposal passing good luck
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6 points,2 months ago
I like the idea as we have tried a similar proposal before (PEC) but can we get a full cost breakdown please. The pre proposal say 50k total but this proposal is for 123k???

"Website design and programming

$30.000

Administration costs

$15.000

Miscellaneous costs
$5.000

Total

$50.000"

Is the 15k for administration cost monthly or for how long?
5k for miscellaneous, care to elaborate?
Will this be paid out monthly based on 30DMA or the real cost?
If it will be paid out monthly based on the 30DMA I will vote no!
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2 points,2 months ago
Mastermined,

Thank you for taking the time to review our proposal.

The reason you are seeing a discrepancy between the amount stated in the pre-proposal and the final requested amount is because after further assessing the build we discovered that it is not just a ‘website’ and’ programming’ project as to build an optimal governance structure then we really must get under the hood and explore Sentinel ‘An autonomous agent for persisting, processing and automating Dash 12.1 governance objects and tasks’

See: https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/DOC/pages/103922706/Sentinel?showComments=true&showCommentArea=true

The technical challenges with this are compounded by the fact that it touches on many other contentious areas. i.e. This needs to be a fully verifiable, autonomous and decentralized organization and I don’t say that lightly. Other considerations would be for us to ensure that what we are developing is not only of value in the short term but that it is strategically developed with a degree of flexibility that will allow this new infrastructure to add value long into the future.

The above is of a complex nature and will require a lot of resource and that’s before we talk about backend / front end dev or a single line of logic. Not that I’m complaining, it’s a lovely project and my team and I very keen to get stuck in but it will require everything and the kitchen sick to be thrown at it.

In relation to the administration cost we will be conducting a discovery and analysis process where we will study application & assessment processes currently employed by other organizations where individuals or entities make requests for funding. This process will be an academic exercise where we will try and establish a structured format for the submissions of micro proposals that will allow voters to quickly and clearly extract key information points for their consideration.

Of course, there is the website copy, branding, logos that will also need to be brought online.

Over the 3 month project and for the funds requested we hope to get the initial build and two ‘micro-proposal’ cycles completed where we will continuously listen for feedback, learn and implement findings. This is true for both the technical and academic aspects of this project.

After the 3 month escrowed period is complete the idea is that DashBoost will be a self-funded organization with a portion of the micro-proposal submission fees going towards the admin and maintenance costs. I can’t tell you what those costs would be now as it would depend on how much we can get the tech to work for us. It also depends on what ancillary services that we might provide. For example, a translation service where we could translate proposals to allow our brethren across the globe to easily engage with the Treasury system.

Ultimately, when the Greencandle funds run out we would have to go back to the Treasury with a request for more funds (for micro-proposals) so we will also be answerable to MNOs re monthly admin costs etc.

For my last point, in relation to the MDA. I know you have made your position clear but I would like to take this opportunity to respectfully demonstrate that I don’t just say things to make people happy and get votes. When finalizing the submission, my team and I agreed to be paid in Dash whether it went up or down, so out of respect to my team that’s what I’ll have to stick to. That aside, we are very experienced, energetic team and will be highly committed to this project if it passes.

Yes we are entrepreneurs - but my definition of an entrepreneur is to create more value than you capture.

I hope I’ve satisfied your queries and our commitment to deliver on this project. If you want to hone in on anything in particular please do let me know.
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0 points,2 months ago
*kitchen sink
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8 points,2 months ago
As a proposal owner who has experienced a range of emotions putting up the 5 dash fee to submit a proposal, I think Dash Boost addresses a real need in the community to help proposals gain submission and support at a lower entry point. I believe this would improve the ecosystem as a whole.
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3 points,2 months ago
@feedbands thank you for the support. We want to make Dash as accessible to everyone as possible and this is one step in that direction.
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1 point,2 months ago
MNO. Sydney, Australia.
I feel there is a need for this concept. Whether this proposal gains traction or not and whether it functions properly, we are obviously yet to see.
If this proposal does not pass, improve on it as best you can.
What happens if one Dash = $3700USD? - that is an expensive proposal.
I think this project needs to display where the budget allocated to it actually goes to (after spending happens).

Dash branding should be 'Dash - Digital Cash' rather than just Dash, as Amanda B. Johnson explained when she talked about Zorks. I was not impressed that Rory McDonald did not sport basic 'Dash - digital cash' camera ready branding on stage immediately post winning his fight. Mind boggling!

Voting YES on this proposal.
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1 point,2 months ago
At InstantKarmaFund, we get many inquiries each month from prospective proposal owners that can't afford the 5 Dash proposal fee. As a result, we qualify and mentor those proposals and sponsor them when we feel there is sufficient value to the network.

DashBoost would allow many new entrants to join DashNation, getting paid directly by the blockchain. This is an exciting idea in and of itself! I believe DashBoost will attract many new community members, increase the quality of proposals and ultimate success of the Dash Network. It will also take the load off MNOs from having to research and vote on so many smaller proposals. Win - win.

Yes!
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3 points,2 months ago
@Realmrhack you have some bold and unsubstantiated accusations in this comment thread, without any proof. I assume you know how to check to see if funds were moved on a block chain, however if you don't I would be glad to show you where to find the information.

For anyone left wondering, GC has made it clear that will do not move funds out of their specific lanes (one is created for each proposal) until all aspects including our tax obligations are wrapped up. If there are funds remaining they will be accounted and a budget will be disclosed to the public. Of course this can easily be verified on the blockchain if anyone wanted to look.

We are confident that most MNOs recognize that we have personally funded everything we have done to date and that the fees we charge for escrow are very modest.

Lastly, the comment that this "is a powerfull and sly way to wrestle control from the MNO and centerlise it with greencandle,'' is absolutely ludicrous and false. We have openly stated that one of our short term goals is to decentralize escrow and we have done so by helping others enter this field. We work together and support each other to do whats in the best interest of the network. I will not sit quiet when we are being accused of doing anything untoward. I challenge those who are making such statements to show some proof or move on and find a positive way to contribute.
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1 point,3 months ago
I have some questions to the community:
Where do the "unused GreenCandle" funds come from?
What would these funds be used for, if not for the micro proposals?
How do the GreenCandle funds get replenished?
Thanks!
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2 points,3 months ago
Hello groovymash, great couple of questions. I am the lead of DashBoost. Unused GreenCandle funds come from the situations where a proposal is escrowed through GreenCandle and does not follow through, resulting in GreenCandle holding the remaining payments on behalf of the network. Left over funds also come about when the value of dash greatly increases over the time of the escrow service such as what happened with the GAP proposal resulting in a large amount of unused funds. Both GreenCandle and DashBoost believe that these funds belong to the network and should not be used without the consent of the of the network, as such the funds are currently doing nothing while they could be being used to fund more community projects with verifiable voting through DashBoost.
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-1 point,3 months ago
We already have a problem with voters as MNO and now greencandle wants to create a whole new set of voters.. whole new can of worms
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1 point,3 months ago
The idea in this proposal is clear and concise. I have to say this "Your proposal will benefit Africa nation more. As we gain rampant adoption here. More funds is needed for projects but the traditional proposal fee then become a barrier but with this Africans can get something done for their community and give good RIO to Dash network"
Good luck on this. @green candle
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-1 point,3 months ago
If you vote yes to this project you are readying yourself of a future where MNO dont have any say or voice in dash's direction this is a powerfull and sly way to wrestle control from the MNO and centerlise it with greencandle
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-3 points,3 months ago
Great way to take control from MNO and hand it over to a bunch of volunteers who only need to have 1 dash to vote... All about the revenue should be green candles motto
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2 points,3 months ago
I feel that this is a very needed boost to the onboarding new talent. Since discovering Dash last September, it has been my own goal to earn 5 dash for my first proposal. Dash boost would allow new members to prove their dedication and skill by starting small and working their way up. Capitalism at its best, working hard to earn reputation and trust and the rewards that come with it.
Keep in mind that when ABJ submitted her first proposal, she was probably putting up much less than $1000 and that investment brought countless new members to the community. As Dash continues to rise, it’s expected that a traditional proposal could cost upwards of $50,000. While this will help insure some high caliber talent will be applying directly to the treasury, it eliminates millions of other fresh ideas that will simply never have access to that kind of funding. How many college students can risk a year’s tuition on a great idea, only to have it voted down. How do participants from unbanked and developing countries risk 2 years (or more) of income?
While we have the same risks that are seen in the existing budget system, the possible ROI outweighs these risks. GCGC could open the doors for thousands of Dash clubs on campuses around the globe. Thousands of small vendors could be onboarded through grassroots work. Many more videos, brochures and wallets can be distributed. As Dash recognition and media expose grows, small projects will enable Dash ambassadors to earn some compensation for promoting that golden nugget that is mass adoption.
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0 points,3 months ago
OK, I'll vote yes, but frankly, I think for micro proposals, a group like Green Candle should vet the proposals, and pay for them, instead of sending them to a MN vote. Because we need people we can trust to make these decisions and follow the progress. Rather than have MNOs go through all the little projects all the time. Handing off that work to other entities, many such entities like Green Candle, is a better system. That way we can evaluate how YOU are doing and the projects funded and managed by YOU and simply go through reports by YOU to see if we will fund again. This brings projects under more immediate scrutiny (YOU would be the boss) You being GC. It's simpler with less waste of funds via proposal fees that just get burned.
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3 points,3 months ago
158 is a lot of Dash to fund micro proposals. And just for an MVP. I have a feeling that for every 1 Dash we spend on a micro proposal, we'll end up spending 2-5 Dash of treasury funds.
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-3 points,3 months ago
The masternodes provide service to the network and ensure greater price stability (than otherwise) by locking in the collateral. It's the people invested in the currency who should have a vote.

The current masternode system is based on solid economic principles (incentivisation) and is how Dash has fixed the tragedy of the commons problem that plagues Bitcoin and this is what has allowed Dash to succeed the past 3 years.

Why on earth should everyone have a vote? In that case the votes become worthless. IMO this is a terrible idea.
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4 points,3 months ago
I like the idea very much and will vote YES. But I'm interested how you will prevent of someone spamming the proposal? For example: let's say someone has 1 dash and vote. Then send that 1 dash to different address and vote again etc.
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2 points,3 months ago
Hi, olymp. I am the project lead for DashBoost. Great question, currently we are evaluating a solution where every 24 hours, and at the voting deadline, we scan through all the addresses and verify that they still contain 1 dash and adjust vote counts accordingly. This is only going to be an MVP so we are still open to improving the robustness of this piece but are happy to move forward with this plan and address obstacles as they come.
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1 point,3 months ago
Any update? I really would like to vote yes, but it's a waste of time and money if there's no airtight spam solution in place.
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2 points,3 months ago
Hi Photosynthesis, thanks for your interest. Trying to game the voting system by moving around dash is one of my team's lowest concerns. It can easily be removed by checking that the registered address hasn't had its balance changed. And if the balance changed, adjust their votes accordingly.
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1 point,3 months ago
Please keep us updated on solving this problem that olymp brought up. I can't vote yes until I know there's a solid plan in place to avoid the vote spamming. Other than that, I am on board.
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-2 points,3 months ago
Good point!
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0 points,3 months ago
Good Ideas are great but, to make Ideas happen is what counts! Thanks for taking this on guys!! Will MNO have a voting right for micro proposals? I would suggest coins which are locked up in masternodes should be excluded from voting or else small fish won't make much of a splash with voting power of few dash.
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1 point,3 months ago
Excluding MNOs from voting seems insane.
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1 point,3 months ago
If MNO get to vote with the same coins on main network "big proposals" and on "Micro proposals" run by GC. You can forget about wider community participation. MNO could still vote with dash which is not locked up in masternodes. Whats the point to vote for small fish if it's all decided by few whales anyway? Concentration of money and decision making in few hands is likely to alienate wider community.
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1 point,3 months ago
So you're expecting MNO's to vote on a proposal to take away their own voice? Best of luck with that.
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-2 points,3 months ago
That should be the next proposal ;)
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1 point,3 months ago
Wow wowww wwoww we do all in cryptocurrency space with this proposal. This is amazingly awesome and will really bring innovations, real talent to play for community development. I shared an email with Paragon for something similar to this, so glad to see Greencandle doing something great.
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3 points,3 months ago
Voting yes.

One of the features is something you call "fiat locking". I believe this feature will remove some or all of the volatility risk due to the price of Dash shooting up or down after the proposal has been submitted.

While this may be a very desirable feature for a number of reasons, how does it work? It's easy if the value of Dash shoots up. Woooo hooooo, we now have extra money in the pot. But where does the extra value or buying power come from if the value of Dash goes down by 40%?

Exciting!
Carry on, have fun, win!
Solarguy
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-1 point,3 months ago
Yes, in the next proposal MNO's will be excluded from voting ;)
Dont dig your own grave
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-1 point,3 months ago
Please I want to know more about it, I just joint the site.
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-4 points,3 months ago
Poor people are often very always envious. They could destroy dash with their vote
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2 points,3 months ago
Very needed :)
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6 points,3 months ago
Yes!! I read 1 Dash = 1 vote, completely in on this!! Always thought the proposal system should work in that way, this could show that everyone who owns Dash should have the right to vote not only MNO’s. Hope this is successful!
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-2 points,3 months ago
Democratic decisions are not the best decisions because not everybody is competent enough.
I think only MNO's should vote because if you have 1000 dash, you really want the best for dash.
If everybody can vote, their might be to many incompetent voters(statism fiat believers, socialists etc.) who might destroy dash with bad decisions or wants increase total supply of dash etc.
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0 points,3 months ago
So crypto is a democratic revolution in the financial world and since his creation all thing run good without any governance and with a decentralization. So poor people dont choose tho be like that but it arrive with a situation in life, so someone can be poor in money not in his mind. In the same time a poor can destroy dash a rich can make the same. Descision doesnt related to an economic situation, you cannhave a little reason but don generalize the question, all poor arent bad ppl, the pooverty isnt a choosen life statut but a thing create by old rich dictator, anti socialist.
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1 point,3 months ago
Assuming you are MNO, I'm not btw. Just because you have more dash you think that makes you more qualified to vote? You clearly haven't taken your time to even read in detail what this proposal is about before expressing your opinion. Votes on "micro proposals" won't have anything to do with dash core functionality. It's only to receive green candle left over funds.
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0 points,3 months ago
resist the beginnings!
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1 point,3 months ago
good point!
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1 point,3 months ago
The MNO's still have 1000 votes each, and a majority of the coins over all. Most of the remainder is not in the hands of people who are going to vote anyway. Anyone who wants to have a significant impact has to buy a ton of dash. The only issue I see is that it could give exchanges more influence. Though if they wanted it that bad they could setup Masternodes anyway.
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2 points,3 months ago
So just because someone is not significant means they should not vote?

Even with having only 1 Dash, you make up 1/7,800,000 which sounds large but in reality isn’t. if you compare it to the amount of votes for the U.S president, you’re looking at about 150,000,000 votes. On top of that not all 7,800,000 coin holders will be voting so your vote might be 1/1,000,000 or less
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-4 points,3 months ago
Yes but the masses makes ALWAYS socialist votes. Rich individuals which are highly invested in dash makes better decisions
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2 points,3 months ago
Look at the recent passed huobi proposal. MNO’s vote to give away 1,000 Dash. Socialism. Look in the comments and you’ll find me, a non-MNO saying this is socialism and asking to vote no.

Your bias has no truth
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-2 points,3 months ago
i am a libertarian and i hate democracy because not everyone can make good decisions. i do not want that every socialist can vote. most socialists have not enough coins to vote because socialists are to stupid to save money. but with this proposal they can
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-3 points,3 months ago
If you want vote you should BUY 1000 dash. If you cannot afford you should learn to make money.
If every poor socialist could vote, dash will fail so hard
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-2 points,3 months ago
people who can make money, can make good decisions and onley they should vote!!!
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2 points,3 months ago
The trolling is getting old.
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-2 points,3 months ago
you are an envious socialist
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2 points,3 months ago
Good read. You must be a great poker player.
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2 points,3 months ago
Wrong! Everyone who owns Dash is incentivized to vote correctly to increase their Dash worth. This will actually increase efficiency because you get everyone’s opinion, and not just the rich people’s opinions.
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-1 point,3 months ago
Dash should be a payment system not a democracy.
Not everybody should vote because the poor average joe will always vote for a free lunch.
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4 points,3 months ago
I support the idea here because I believe there should be multiple points of entry into the Dash ecosystem for people willing to bring their skills, talents, and passion to help improve Dash in any sort of way.

I had a similar idea back in July, which some of you may remember: Grassroots Crowdfunding System (https://www.dashcentral.org/p/grassroots-crowdfunding-system). It didn't gain quite enough support to pass, but I've continued the work since July at my own cost. The project is called DashRoots, and I'm nearing the first release. I wrote a recent project update here for anyone interested: https://blog.dashroots.fund/2018/01/04/project-update/

During the London Dash conference, I had some productive conversations with some of the Core team about Evo and protocol-level functionality (on-chain decentralised escrow) required to support these sorts of systems going forward, and I'm looking forward to exploring that work via DashRoots right after the first release.

I wish you luck with this proposal. I believe this system can co-exist with DashRoots, which instead aims firmy at being an open platform for grassroots projects; a project needing 0.2 DASH should be made possible by any number (even one or two) of backers who see value in it and are willing to back it. Dash Boost seems to help with the issue of evaluation and the high cost to make a proposal within the current treasury system.

There ought to be a great deal of learning from both Dash Boost and DashRoots (and future such) systems. That's what we need – we need to learn more about how to make our core governance model better, and with those learnings, Core has much more information for making deeper decisions about where Dash goes and what problems to aim at.
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-1 point,3 months ago
Great!
We will learn a lot from this.
Voting YES.
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3 points,3 months ago
I don't mind if it fails or works out, this is going to be a great learning experience
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3 points,3 months ago
Agreed. This is worth a try
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4 points,3 months ago
Well... Governance will eventually be fixed and allow many more proposals. What you are creating here would be a stop-gap measure till then. I estimate that this would run for about 4 to 5 months until fixes governance system (don't quote me on that, no official timeline yet). While I appreciate your effort here I think that you should amend your proposal and agree to end your service once the Dash governance system itself can be used for small and micro-proposals.

Why is this? What you are doing is centralized, we aim to do the same in a completely decentralized way. (Meaning of decentralized, is that the logic lies in dash nodes and not on a server). Also the fact that you have to register your account with the amount of dash you own is just asking for trouble. While we do do that on dashcentral, the governance system doesn't force you to do that.

You aim to have this out around May 1, I'm not sure if it's worth the effort for just a few months. This could be delayed, however changes to governance could also be delayed.

Not sure how to vote, I trust you guys a lot to deliver and I know you are doing what is best for DASH, but I also feel like the solution just isn't all that good, you could get hacked for example and votes could be changed without you realizing it.
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3 points,3 months ago
This is putting unused GC funds to work for Dash ASAP, maximizing adoption and growth of Dash ecosystem, instead of sitting in purgatory.
People will probably adopt your Governance V2, if and when it comes out. I'm sure it will be great! I just hope there will be a way to comment on pre-proposals.
Until then, we have to make efforts to accelerate growth with whatever means we have using best practices available at the time.
Solid YES from me.
Over to you, Core.
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3 points,3 months ago
Yeah ok, I'll vote yes. I don't understand why people downvoted my original comment, there's really nothing there to disagree with.
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1 point,3 months ago
I'm interested to see where this leads, so i'm voting yes.
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1 point,3 months ago
Great proposal Jeff, I love the idea behind it. This is something that will be definitely useful, but I agree that long term plans need to be more clear in regards to possible integration of Grant Center with Dash Network and Treasury Model as we need to keep cherishing the values of decentralization.
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1 point,3 months ago
I dont know if we can scale the DAO without some sort of delegation like this. Anyway you have a good short term solution, I hope MNOs will support the effort. Voting yes.
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-1 point,3 months ago
Yes, in the next proposal MNO's will be excluded from voting ;)
Dont dig your own grave
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1 point,3 months ago
I think such a structure is very much need. Sure it will most likely be replaced by a proper "in-protocol" system someday, but I'm pretty sure this is still years away. Voting yes.
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