Proposal “the-dash-dao-irrevocable-trust“ (Completed)Back

Title:The Dash DAO Irrevocable Trust
Owner:TheDashDAOTrust
One-time payment: 470 DASH (33902 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 470 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2020-01-15 / 2020-02-13 (added on 2020-01-10)
Votes: 840 Yes / 132 No / 14 Abstain
External information: app.dashnexus.org/proposals/the-dash-dao-irrevocable-trust/overview

Proposal description

Dash Proposal Funding Request 

At current Dash price of $55 we are asking for funding of $25,850 equating to 470 Dash. 
The amount requested includes a small buffer to help absorb volatility in the price of Dash and 5 Dash proposal fee reimbursement for DCG.
Currency conversion (https://www.xe.com/)
23,550 CHF to USD = 24,210.80 US Dollars (10th Jan 2020)

What does this specific proposal fund?
This proposal is for an invoice issued to the Dash Trust for outstanding payment for second half of 2019 and payment for the continuation of Trustee services for 2020 period. The total invoice amount requested is CHF 23,550.00. Please see below for full invoice payment breakdown.
What is the Dash DAO Irrevocable Trust?

Please see Dash Core Group CEO, Ryan Taylor’s forum post - Dash Core Group Legal Structure Details: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-legal-structure-details.39848/#post-193885

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/JhFqPjVsw38yf28ixiID-k3fPCcAbfapiqNvEgYgfweeJ0tPE9a9NxbUB4gyC9ki5OigsJFA8WFF2NdYf1UcfIo5Eqyl3Epcuq4FvdovPAomItTBC4hdhSLpVoCoHCL6thGQj2tp

Who is the Dash Trust Trustee?
The Dash Trust is currently administered by Waheed Hussain of HELMS Family Office, S.A. in Geneva, Switzerland. He is a professional trustee who will carry out any legal instructions assigned by the trust protectors. 

Who are the Dash Trust Protectors?
The current elected trust protectors are Pieter Bakhuijzen, Raleigh Barrett, Michael Lewis, Mark Mason, Eric Sammons, and Perry Woodin, representing well-known community members and masternode operators, as well as members from media and outreach group Dash Force and cryptocurrency accounting and compliance firm Node40.
The trust protectors were elected by the Dash masternode network in March 2019. 
Source: https://twitter.com/Dashpay/status/1113257510507388929
Trust protectors are elected annually, and the next election will take place in March 2020.
Invoice Item Breakdown (with discount applied):
  • Carried forward, Outstanding Annual Trustee Fee and Administration For 2nd Half 2019 CHF 7,600.00 
  • Annual Trustee Fee and Administration For 2020 CHF 12,000.00 
  • Time Spent: Trust Administration, Compliance and Beneficiary resignation and New Beneficiary appointment, Deed of appointments and various legal work in relation to Trust administration CHF 1,200.00 
  • Time Spent: Trust Administration, Compliance and Protector (x6) appointments, Deed of appointments and various legal work in relation to Trust administration CHF 2,350.00 
  • Inland Revenue filing of Trust 1 CHF 400.00 
Total CHF 23,550.00

Trust Protector Mark Mason was nominated to handle direct communications with trustee and lead negotiations on behalf of the Dash network. 

Mark’s notes on invoice, discounts applied and payments moving forward
1st Invoice item: Carried forward, Outstanding Annual Trustee Fee and Administration For 2nd Half 2019
This item was in place with DCG before current Trust Protectors were elected and the CHF 15,200.00 yearly fee was the agreed upon fixed amount. There is no movement on this cost. Trustee was only paid for first half of 2019 and this is an outstanding payment that needs to be paid.

2nd Invoice item: Annual Trustee Fee and Administration For 2020
Mark negotiated a 21% reduction for 2020 payment from CHF 15,200.00 to CHF 12,000.00. 
This reduced fee will be fixed and locked at CHF 12,000.00 for the network moving forward. It has also been agreed that the Annual Trustee Fee and Administration for 2020 will be inclusive of adding new Trust Protector appointments, Deed of appointments and legal work in relation to Trust admin after upcoming March election (the network will not be invoiced for time spent in 2020 when new Trust Protectors are elected and appointed). All additional work (Excluding appointment and removal of Protectors) will be charged. Approval from the Protectors will be requested prior to work being performed.

3rd and 4th Invoice Items:
Time Spent: Trust Administration, Compliance and Beneficiary resignation and New Beneficiary appointment, Deed of appointments and various legal work in relation to
Trust administration
Time Spent: Trust Administration, Compliance and Protector (x6) appointments, Deed of appointments and various legal work in relation to Trust administration
Mark negotiated a 22% reduction (CHF 1,000.00) for total time spent items totalling CHF 4,550.00 this invoice payment was reduced to CHF 3,550.00

5th Invoice Item: Inland Revenue filing of Trust
Inland Revenue expense can not be changed as this is a fixed cost.

Conclusion of negotiations:
Trustee services for 2020 period and moving forward will be 12K + 400 for Annual Trustee Fee and Administration plus Inland Revenue. This payment will be inclusive of expense of appointing new Trust Protectors after March election.

Network Proposal for Invoice Payment:
The Trust Protectors have instructed Dash Core Group to sponsor the 5 Dash proposal fee and to escrow payment to Trustee if proposal passes.

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,9 months ago
No x13.

Sucking up to authorities is a waste of money.

For your OWN sake I recommend working anonymously as devs and getting money directly from the treasury.

Do you understand that governments will try to kill you and such if there is serious inflation?

All this legal bs and expenses gives Dash nothing. DIF etc too.
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0 points,9 months ago
Using the legal frameworks that are available to us is the realistic and practical approach. If you think cryptocurrencies are going to take over the world and do it by hiding in the shadows then I have a bridge to sell you. If you feel that way I don't even know why you would not have sold your 13 nodes by now if you've been paying attention to the direction things are going especially with DCG's approach.
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0 points,9 months ago
I would like to say thank you to @walters for answering my questions on this proposal. As a result voting I'm yes on this project. Good luck!
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1 point,9 months ago
You’re welcome @DeepBlue. I’m pleased to hear that my answers have been helpful.

Cheers

Walter
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0 points,9 months ago
Yes from me. It may be a high amount, but it is a one-time funding request for 2019 / 2020 and provides Dash (through this Trust) with more decentralization and more accountability. It makes sense to keep this Trust going.
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0 points,9 months ago
@TheDashDAOTrust What would happen to the DASH project if this "Irrevocable" trust was not funded?
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2 points,9 months ago
Short term, the DAO Trust would fall into arrears with the trustee and payment would become overdue. Whilst this may not be seen by some as a major problem in the short term, it's certainly not good practice to treat partners/suppliers in this way and could cause problems with the Trusts relationship with the Trustee.

Longer term. if the invoice isn't paid then the trustee will likely refuse to do any further work for the DAO Trust until payment is received. This could impact the ratification of the results of the upcoming elections in March 2020. The DAO Trust could also be subject to legal action to recover costs should the trustee see no real likelihood of being paid any time soon. Any resulting legal action could ultimately force the DAO Trust to look at its assets to see how funds can be raised internally in absence of funding from the network. That, in theory, could mean requesting a dividend/loan from Dash Core Group Inc (the DAO Trust's only asset) in order to cover the shortfall and/or looking at other ways to avoid a forced liquidation of Dash Core Group Inc. should the DAO Trust be forced by a court order to sell assets to pay the debt.

It's all (hopefully) theoretical, but I hope that gives you some insight into the consequences of the DAO Trust not meeting it's liabilities.

All of the above is my own opinion, for the record. I'm not a legal expert. It's just for illustration purposes to demonstrate the many possible scenarios in a situation where the DAO Trust is unable to meet it's liabilities both in the short and longer term.

Hope this helps.

Walter
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0 points,9 months ago
@walters, thanks for you reply it was very helpful indeed.

I have to say I am a little concerned by the word "irrevocable" Do you know how would the network be able to remove the "irrevocable" trust if in the future we decided it was not right for the network? The word "irrevocable" seems to suggest that the trust can never be removed i.e. if we ever try to cancel the trust the network would be faced with legal action to continue to pay the legal bills. Is that correct? If so, I don't think an "irrevocable" trust should have ever been set up in this manner without first getting approval of the network because then it forms a legal structure that is enforced and fixed on the network for ever. We could have tried just a regular trust first to see if that legal structure is right for us. I would be grateful if you could throw some more light on this issue please. Thank you.
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1 point,9 months ago
Hi DeepBlue,

I recommend reading this for a better understanding of the term “irrevocable” in the context of trust law:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/irrevocabletrust.asp

If for some mad reason the network (as the beneficiary) instructed trust protectors to change the status of the trust back to a revocable trust whereby DCG (as the grantor) was handed back ultimate control, then we would do so. I can’t see it happening though.

Walter
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0 points,9 months ago
@walters, thank you for the clarifications. Voting yes.
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1 point,9 months ago
TL;DR a bunch of shit we don't want to happen could happen if we don't fund it.

A Trustee fee of $1K CHF per month is not unreasonable. This needs to pass.
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4 points,9 months ago
This is wayyy too expensive, sorry but have to vote No
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1 point,9 months ago
If the price of Dash is 130$ at time of payout, will this carry over into future years? And if yes, how could that be made as transparent as possible?
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2 points,9 months ago
Hi quantumexplorer, Dash Core Group is escrowing payment. Dash Core Group CMO Glenn Austin will create a separate balance for trust expenses if proposal passes that will be custodied on the Trust's behalf. So any additional funds remaining can be used for future trust expenses. This is my understanding, I trust and thank Glenn Austin for his cooperation on this matter.
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0 points,9 months ago
Confirmed on this point. I plan on liquidating the Dash to USD within 2 business days of receiving the Dash and escrowing the entire balance on behalf of the Trust.
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2 points,9 months ago
Thanks for the clarification.
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2 points,9 months ago
*Correction* CFO not CMO

Dash Core Group Glenn Austin Chief Financial Officer (CFO)
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18 points,9 months ago
My main concern is the size of the ask, would have rather it was broken up into more than one payment than a lump sum with the tight budget we have right now, but will vote yes if it looks like it will fit into the budget without cutting off critical infrastructure like Electrum.
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19 points,9 months ago
Voting abstain for now.
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-16 points,9 months ago
Easy yes. No other crypto project can employ the dev team. They are all at the mercy of the dev team. Dash is not, so let's keep it that way.
solarguy
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1 point,9 months ago
I would like Ryan or someone from the DAO to confirm proposal is legit.
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-12 points,9 months ago
I also confirm that this proposal is legit.
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-11 points,9 months ago
Yes, it's legit. I'm one of the trust protectors who signed off on it.

Walter
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-17 points,9 months ago
Voting yes, as this is critical infrastructure IMO, but second ABJ’s comments that the Trust needs to be more present and contactable.
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-13 points,9 months ago
As mentioned below - I think there's a disconnect here between perception and reality regarding what EXACTLY the elected TPs are there to do.. The answer is nothing, unless the network instructs us to do so, as per the guidance set out in the 'Governance mechanisms' section of the post below:

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-legal-structure-details.39848/#post-193885

We're not here as therapy or counselling for disgruntled community members, we're here to resolve any disputes that cannot be resolved via network consensus and to act as legal custodian for the assets of the Trust (namely DCG Shares at present) on behalf of the network.

Walter
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1 point,9 months ago
Given that the main goal is to do nothing, I don't understand why that costs $12,000 per year.
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19 points,9 months ago
Is there a binding budget for 2020? Or will there be more surprises?
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15 points,9 months ago
$26,000 for what?
Sorry, but this looks like a money wasting, elaborate SCAM to me! Voting no +1

@ValenciaDash
Irrespective of sharing your opinion on this one (and only this one!) do you really need to comment each and every single proposal in a negative way?
As far as i'm concerned, you can keep on doing this, if it makes you happy and if you haven't anything better to do.
But you should disclose the reason why you take the time and effort to comment each and every single proposal.
What's your motivation?
Do you hold a couple of Dash coins and are truly worried about Dash's future? Is it really that?
Difficult to believe.
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-10 points,9 months ago
Do you want DCG to be legally owned by the DAO, or not?
The Dash Irrevocable Trust is one of the things that separates Dash from every other project. It's not free to administer a trust. $12K per year is a bargain for a legal structure, one of its kind, that keeps the DAO in control of its development team. This is a mandatory expense. And thank you to Mark Mason for negotiating the discount.
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14 points,9 months ago
"administer a trust" LOL
There is NOTHING being done or accomplished by whoever "administers" this trust.
It could be done with a tiny fraction of this cost.
Stop negotiating and contracting with moneygrabbers and fraudsters, and stop wasting DAO funds in an irresponsible way.
Tired of seeing the DAO being constantly ripped off by such bogus shell entities while some MNO still think its great.
Seems like whatever you guys setup turns out to be a money waste, if not an outright SCAM.
Shame on whoever set this up in such an expensive wasteful way.
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-14 points,9 months ago
The fact that you stated "administer a trust" as if this is some foreign or laughable concept signals to me that you don't know what you're talking about. If you have no experience in this area, at least do some research about what that means, and then consider the nature of this particular trust.
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0 points,9 months ago
I don't know about Jules, but I'd happily admit that I don't know what I'm talking about. But given that, as walters says above, the goal of the trust is to do nothing until something needs to be done, $12,000 for doing nothing seems like a lot of money to me as well.

Since you seem to know more, I would be happy if you could explain why it costs $12,000 per year to essentially do nothing.
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0 points,9 months ago
Some of this is touched on in the proposal description, but I think it would be best if Mark Mason or another TP answered your question in more detail.
Remember that the Trust Protectors are not paid. Walters was referring to the Trust Protectors, not the Trustee.
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9 points,9 months ago
This proposal is asking the treasury to waste money on empty, do-nothing shell companies and consultants and registration fees and lawyers.

These "charges" are a bottomless pit and once you start paying them, there is no end to them. None of this was told before setting this up and this is a classic hidden charges type of deal. Complete waste.
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-17 points,9 months ago
troll
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-13 points,9 months ago
which other network is capable of owning its development-team? None, afaik. This is a main USP in this market to distinguish yourself from other cryptos. Most don't realize that, (yet). Vote NO, when you want to downgrade your investment.
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-10 points,9 months ago
I support the network being able to own Dash Core Group. I also support paying any competitively-priced legal bills needed to do so. (I'm assuming this invoice is for a competitive price.)

That said, I'm sorely disappointed with the performance of the elected Trust protectors thus far. After nearly a year of being in office, you've not published one status report. Not one. Almost 365 days into the job, and the first we hear from you is an out-of-nowhere request for $25k?

What's more, as you know, I wanted to contact you as a group. But how? You have no website. You didn't respond to my public Reddit post requesting contact information. I eventually had to reach out to individual protectors via Discord and Twitter (Discord and Twitter!) to get an email address (trust-protectors@dash.org) -- an address which didn't even accept incoming mail at first.

So to sum up, I support the reason that the Trust was created, but the lack of presence, updates, and contact-ability of its current protectors do not inspire my confidence.
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-16 points,9 months ago
The reason the Trust hasn't been direct to the DAO previously is because the startup and initial funding costs came direct out of DCG budget. This will not be the case going forwards in future years.

I'm not sure what sort of status report you are expecting?

This is an overview of DCG legal structure and the roles of each entity involved:

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-core-group-legal-structure-details.39848/#post-193885

I'd like to draw your attention specifically the paragraph titled 'Governance Mechanics'. Nowhere are we requested (or expected) to do anything unless explicitly instructed to do so by the network via a governance proposal. TPs and the Trust are not the primary governance mechanism for the DAO to exert influence over DCG. It remains, and always will be, the Dash Treasury directly. We are only there to step in when the primary mechanism fails to reach consensus and we are asked to intervene. The trust's primary function is to own and control DCG assets on behalf of the network.

This is not a job either, it's an elected office, we are not paid to do this.

I'm sorry you feel like we have not "performed" very well as Trust Protectors, in all honesty though I think there's a disconnect here between perception and reality regarding what EXACTLY the elected TPs are there to do.. The answer is nothing, unless the network instructs us to do so, as per the guidance set out in the link above.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

Walter
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-12 points,9 months ago
There are trust protector elections coming up. Now would be a good time to find and convince some potentially better candidates to run. That being said, I do not think we should defund the Trust just because our initial trust protectors were a little shaky. We are in this for the long haul.
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-20 points,9 months ago
We need to vote in a new (read: better) batch of trust protectors, but that isn't a knock on the system.

The fact that the community owns DCG is an innovation that we have to keep going. This is a small price to pay to keep our project decentralized and keep our control over DCG.
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-13 points,9 months ago
Well, I'm in favour. Maintaining a legal entity of this type seems like a good idea. Having said that, there is zero chance that it will get funded. The masternodes as a whole are simply not going to all agree the money is well spent, some will, some won't, and it needs mostly all of them on board to get through.
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-16 points,9 months ago
Let's hope masternodes won't be so short sighted in this instance.
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