Proposal “lamassu-integration“ (Closed)Back

Title:DASH-Lamassu ATM Integration
Owner:eduffield
Monthly amount: 610 DASH (557308 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (12 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2016-01-07 / 2017-01-19 (added on 2015-12-28)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 1472 Yes / 481 No / 0 Abstain
External information: www.dashwhale.org/p/lamassu-integration

Proposal description

We are very happy to announce our project to integrate Dash into the Lamassu ATM machines. One of our top priorities from a business development perspective is to improve direct access to our network for end users. We believe crypto ATMs are a great way for regular people to get access to DASH without being adept to crypto-currency online trading and Lamassu has currently the largest number of machines operating around the world of all the manufacturers.

Crypto ATMs will help bring DASH into the everyday life of regular users and increase utility by providing a physical bridge into the network. Dash is partnering with Deginner, a development firm with experience with the Lamassu machiness and the awareness of Lamassu to perform the integration. Support over a longer time frame is required to ensure the integration will be maintained for any changes in Dash or the Lamassu system, for this, Deginner will include a two year support for the integration. Ira Miller, from Deginner, has been instrumental in opening this opportunity for Dash by leading the conversation with the Lamassu team and making sure they are aware of the project.

This is a big project, as one key requirement of the integration is for Dash to be able to be presented to the user side-by-side with Bitcoin, meaning a current BTM operator can continue to offer BTC as he normally does and just expand to also offer DASH as an alternative by selecting an option in the menu if he desires. This means the whole system, including the UI, need to change as it was originally designed to do only BTC. This is critical to make it attractive for existing operators to offer Dash without any disruption to their BTC business or machines, just a menu option where they can activate DASH support at will. Also, for new DASH ATM operators which primary interest is DASH it makes sense to also offer BTC, creating synergies between both networks. The alternative of converting the machines from BTC exclusive to DASH exclusive was not really viable as there would not be a business case for current BTM operators to exclude BTC in favor of DASH at this point in time.

Ira Miller, Deginner founder and CEO, is a developer and entrepreneur working in Bitcoin since 2011, he was part of Bitinstant and founded Coinapult in 2012 with Erik Vorhees, which he sold in 2015. We hope that Ira’s collaboration and support for Dash continues in years to come.

Deginner was founded in early 2015 by former Coinapult CEO and CTO, isysd and g-p-g. The Deginner team has built many cryptocurrency services and apps in the past, and now focuses entirely on open source tools. They developed the lamassu-coinapult trade, wallet, and ticker plugins, and have good relationships with the Lamassu team, as well as many of their operators. If this project is approved, Deginner will ensure it is deployed on at least one network of BTMs, starting with the one in Panama City, Panama.

Special thanks to Minotaur (Head of Business Development for Dash) for making this possible.

More information: https://github.com/deginner/DashLamassuProposal | https://angel.co/ira-miller

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,1 year ago
A update would be appreciated, maybe a interview with Amanda would calm some people in the community. Really think that we need some progress report.. its been a while
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0 points,1 year ago
I also think we need a progress report!
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7 points,1 year ago
I agree - This should be stopped.......

No Info = NO DASH

Over 7K a month for nothing?
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3 points,1 year ago
Unfortunately, the proposal system does not require any financial or progress reporting. In fact, this particular proposal doesn't even have any deliverables. Ya - that's right.
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1 point,1 year ago
This is what this community gets for being so blind for so long. This is not the first pork belly budget prop and it won't be the last.
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4 points,1 year ago
Given the recent lack of updates and progress, I would recommend voting "No" on this first until more clarity is achieved.
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2 points,1 year ago
I have 2 questions:

1) How many Bitcoin ATM operators did 'Dash Core' contact for feedback, before submitting the "DASH-Lamassu ATM Integration" proposal?
2) In a few sentences, what was the feedback consensus?

Thanks.
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1 point,1 year ago
I wonder if anyone even checks back on these proposals after they've been approved...
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1 point,1 year ago
How exactly do people use the Dash ATMs, if their iOS phone doesn't have a Dash wallet? But hey - at least then we know the lawyers will say the ATMs are being compliant!
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0 points,1 year ago
I don't know, perhaps there is some other smartphones that exist? I mean iOS only have around 25% market share these days, so there must be some other phones somehow for the remaining 75% of the market. What could that possibly be?
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0 points,1 year ago
Yes, the iOS market share is a lot less than I thought it was. It doesn't matter though, because as it turns out, you apparently don't even need a phone!!! Huh? LOL. How exactly is this 'magic' performed? From the press releases; "The ATM integration offers an easier method of adoption to Latin American users without access to a phone, computer or the internet."
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1 point,1 year ago
It spits out a QR code receipt if its anything like what we have here. Which tells you to login to a website somewhere to access your funds.. "no phone needed" means it's stored online. Or on paper.
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0 points,1 year ago
Would be good to know - but the press releases say you don't need a computer either. So it can't be online access. A paper version means it has a record of your private key. Also not good. Guess we may never know, because I doubt the project will complete.
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0 points,1 year ago
Either way, useless. The point was to put in cash, get Dash sent to you. Not to some web wallet. I have seen this intermediate ATM companies and the fees are well above 8%, not even worth it. I have used the BTC atm 10 minutes from my house a total of 3 times, in the past 4 years. Mostly to show friends the "ease of access", which is easier to just use Coinbase for.
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3 points,1 year ago
I've copied this (with minor formatting changes) from @buster on the Dash Slack for reference here:

Daniel Diaz seems to think that just because the Lamassu ATM Proposal didn't mention a Fiat value we should continue handing out Dash to the Lamassu proposal. You can read his post here:

https://www.Dash.org/forum/threads/lamassu-update.10266/#post-101967

Here is the quote.

"There is also no mention of any USD value at all, applying current FIAT value to past expenses leads to confusion, it also happened with the Dash.org domain purchase, which was a great win."

So we have a project with no set amount of fiat budget only Dash. So if Dash goes to $100 we keep giving them 610.26 dash per month. He claims the same thing happened with the Dash.org URL purchase which is complete bullshit. What happened was the December payment missed and Daniel started crying about how he fronted his Dash for the costs of that and should be reimbursed. I won't argue that point right now  because it's not relevant. What is relevant is that the network ended up paying over $35K for a URL that was supposed to be $20K. It's that simple. Math doesn't lie.

With respects to Lamassu we've paid them already $29K. If we allow them to get another payment it will be another $9K (if price stays same). Nothing has been delivered. I  know one guy attempting to get support for his Lamassu atm (which he purchased because he thought this proposal was with l=Lamassu which it is not), support is not there. The proposal text clearly states the support will be included for up to two years. Daniel Diaz doesn't seem to understand basic math. Just because a fiat value is not mentioned in the proposal doesn't mean the Dash you are getting are not worth that much.

I highly advise all masternode owners to read this document which contains facts about the Lamassu Proposal. I will not ask people to vote no with me but I will state that if you continue supporting this proposal i question your level of competence.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7QC8BXGNXxUdEJrOTl3UzdCcTQ
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1 point,1 year ago
i'm pretty sure the atm deal did have a fiat value mentioned somewhere at one point. seems it was like 20-30k total. if not then the proposal would have been for like 600 dash or 650 dash not 610.26 dash.

that said, from what i understand they are running a tab and only are getting paid for work that's done as it's done. part of the deal was support for a year or so after the 1 year proposal had ended. now i though it was supposed to be free support but it looks like the support will be funded by the credit we have left over with them.
seems a bit shady so hopefully someone can correct me if i'm wrong.
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2 points,1 year ago
Please update the description. It is way outdated.
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3 points,1 year ago
This is not panning out as expected -- way too much money, way too many payouts. Voting no.
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0 points,1 year ago
Google House of Bitcoin and ask them if you can use their BTC atm.. They have unplugged it and now are asking for ID before purchasing any crypto's ..
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4 points,1 year ago
These guys didn't do anything for a whole month and I think with the rise in Dash price, I don't think they need anymore funding after the next payment. The contract has to be readjusted. I hope more people vote No to show that these guys need to be kept in check.
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0 points,1 year ago
We need a way to keep active discussions open about each of these on going proposals outside of Dashtalk and reddit...
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1 point,1 year ago
I voted yes initially, but then changed to no. ATMs are a band-aid that Bitclones have to deal with because they can't be trusted at retail. DASH doesn't have this hang-up because IX. We should be bypassing ATMs (and all the AML/KYC BS that comes with them) because we can, not jumping into a band-aid for a defect we don't have.
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0 points,1 year ago
I don't know how they currently work but a long time ago the Lamassu machines didn't require id or registration.. will this still be the case? Of course, going forward we can't say how laws might change and impact on such machines.

I like the idea but I am seriously allergic to intrusive and unnecessary id checks and registration. I'm undecided - which means no - and I think at this stage I'd rather see a decentralised local-dash-coins app / website.
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0 points,1 year ago
Lamassu machines do not have any special ID check features. This software certainly has nothing to do with such functionality, and being open source, can be used however the operator chooses.
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0 points,1 year ago
Then how do they comply with the AML/KYC that all Money Transmitters are required to do by very big, ugly laws, made by very big, ugly governments?
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2 points,1 year ago
$20,000 for 5-20 ATMs with BTC and Dash by the end of 2016. Hmmm. That is a lot of funds for just a few ATMs but more ATMs will likely be added over time.

I wonder how far we could get putting those funds in an exchange or a 'bitdash'? Bitcoin needs ATMs because of its slow transaction speed. Dash can go directly to point of sale.
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3 points,1 year ago
Solarminer, i fully agree that the suggested "bring DASH into the hands of real people by ATM" effect will be almost negligible for at least 1-2 years. Doing the implementaion with current daemon now and with DAPI in a few month is also inefficient.

But, this proposal stimulates imagination of investors. That increases the price, increases budget purchasing power, ultimately allowing us to reach the goal of real user adoption. This outcompetes the issues mentioned above by 10x.

Therefore this proposal is awesome, important and worth our full support!
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1 point,1 year ago
I appreciate your input. We have already proven an easy way to capture IX transactions with a raspberry pi to trigger a relay output for under $100 $20,000 sounds like a large sum on something that does a similar function with a few more graphics. I would feel more confident in this proposal if it had some addition benefits that could be used for other projects or ported easily to merchant tools. Or maybe we just put $20,000 into advertising....Not saying this is better. Just bringing it up as a discussion. Still on the fence here. I see some benefit here, just don't know if it is a $20,000 benefit.
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0 points,1 year ago
It doesn't matter. Following the BitPoniz pattern instead of actually using brain and going another way is all that goes on in the BitPonzi minds...
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2 points,1 year ago
I can tell you that if you wanted to get a white-label USD/crypto exchange instead, we could arrange it for a slightly higher price. It is something we'd discussed doing first, as a CTM (crypto teller machine) needs an exchange to clear against.

IMO a good bid/ask exchange pairing USD against DASH is the single biggest thing missing.
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2 points,1 year ago
To provide a little more detail, an exchange is more complex but there is less work to do to customize it. Deginner has partnerships with open source exchange software wlox.io, a white-label operator, cryptocapital.co (KYC, banking, etc), and more. We're working on our own exchange stack to gradually replace wlox.
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-1 point,1 year ago
Maybe we don't need to do a full exchange. Can we make a tool that converts Dash to USD via shapeshift (Dash-BTC) and bitpay(Dash-USD)? Not really an exchange just a converter.

You can do this now, but really only with a fixed dash/btc address pair in shapeshift. A rotating address and front end would make ATM and merchant adoption easier.
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0 points,1 year ago
Shapeshift and Bitpay are both just fancy services built on top of bid/ask exchanges. They need some place to clear their transactions, even if it is just an informal, OTC market. Obviously a competitive, formal market is better.

The fact that this is a prerequisite for all broker-type services is why I say it should be Dash's highest priority IMO. Or the highest priority of any altcoin after the fiasco of bad exchanges in the past. The lack of trustworthy exchange methods has become a bigger problem than lack of trust in altcoins themselves.
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1 point,1 year ago
"Shapeshift and Bitpay are both just fancy services built on top of bid/ask exchanges." Yes, but at least it's automated.
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0 points,1 year ago
An exchange is MUCH bigger cost. I guess you think only about the development effort (typical mistake of a technical person). Exchange is serious a business project.
You have to remember about tests, infrastructure, security, maintenance from technical perspective. But you need to remember about licenses, lawyers, audits - if you work with fiat money everything is regulated. I have never estimated it but suppose that investment in development and release of an exchange would be like 100-200kUSD (just guessing).
Then when it is finally live you need to have a lot of people hired for operations, monitoring, tickets resolution, call center etc. And all of this means continuous effort and cost. We would be lucky if it was only 20kUSD per month.
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0 points,1 year ago
Kot, thanks for the clarification, what about talking with an existing site that make BTC-fiat only. Maybe this van lower the cost it they add Dash. I wanted to contact one in Mexico and ask them if they can help me puting a Dash-fiat and how much they need in investment for that.
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0 points,1 year ago
Sorry for the HS, lol will ask on slack ;)
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1 point,1 year ago
I meen off topic... Rango, we need an edit button ;)
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0 points,1 year ago
It's on the ToDo. Since people start to really use the budget system, it becomes worth to invest more time :)
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0 points,1 year ago
Hola lebubar! Yo te recuerdo, de LaBitConf.
Estoy de acuerdo sobre el edit boton.
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0 points,1 year ago
Con quien tengo el gusto? Jejeje. Si me indicas donde y cuando nos vimos? Eres en Mexico o nos visitamos por la conf?
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0 points,1 year ago
Si, me nombre es Ira Miller de Deginner. Yo estaba en el panel con Evan.
Que ofreciste en la mesa de Dash, no?
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0 points,1 year ago
If you were starting from scratch, that would be a reasonable estimate. We've done this all before and have the software and solutions for legal, kyc, banking, and so on in place.
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1 point,1 year ago
We need to talk :)
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