Proposal “internshipsDashThailand“ (Completed)Back

Title:Dash Internship Program and SE Asia Representative Office
Owner:DashThailand
One-time payment: 460 DASH (41934 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 460 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-01-17 / 2018-02-16 (added on 2018-01-17)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 0 Yes / 0 No / 0 Abstain

Proposal description

Here is the link to the pre-proposal discussion : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dash-internships-representation-office-thailand.21813/

Summary : There are 2 parts to this proposal : an internship program for graduate students and a dash representation office for Thailand.  The proposal has been well thought out and is being run in phases.  At the height of this proposal, 19 people will be hired or interned from it with 8 of those being in computer science.  At this time we are asking for the first 5 months to ramp up the project.

[UPDATE] Quantum Explorer has made a video for us explaining this project, here it is :



Internship Program

Overview

Due to the huge burden of work fulfilled by each Core team member, secondary tasks such as testnet tools, visualization helpers, stability testers, network attack tools, and focused blockchain research are set aside.

The idea is to hire approximately 8 interns on a 6 months internship program from around the world based on their qualifications to work on these tasks and to offer a support role to core team developers. Academic achievement and blockchain enthusiasm will be the main criteria for selection of individuals.

We would offer them a competitive intern package including a work visa and a flexible schedule, with travel expenses paid and compensation based on origin country/level of education. In exchange we would ask them to undertake projects of a more academic nature than we are used to. Things that would take a core team member maybe 6 months to come up with a benign answer. For example, at what message load would masternodes start failing, most likely it’s very high and we just don’t need to worry about it, but it’s a great project for interns. Even more, hopefully this will start a partnership between universities and Dash core as well. While we have some academics that have started being interested in Dash, we could do better.

Why Thailand?

Well foremost, because it’s doable. There are few countries in the world where immigration laws would allow this to be easy for most countries of the world. Business and living costs are pretty affordable, and it's also a dream place for interns to have their internship.
Thailand also has an strategic location and serves as a gateway into South East Asia, which is home to the largest growing economic market in the modern world.

Benefits

The best and most reliable interns could apply for a position in Dash Core at the end of their internship. They would already be formed and would enter our team much better prepared than current hires who need time to be onboarded.

Intern Compensation

Interns will be compensated based on their level of studies and value they bring to Dash. Minimum compensation will be set at 10$/hour and will increase per year of university studies past 3. So someone who has completed 4 years of university will get 12$ per hour. A doctoral candidate who is in year 8 would get 18$ per hour.
We can estimate an average cost of 2500$/intern/month.

Project Manager and Director roles

Arnaud Beaudat will undertake the project manager role in this endeavor. His tasks will include contacting universities and promotion of this program, identifying work items suited for the interns, managing time schedules, and dealing with local regulations.

Angela Zhang is also coming into the project as Director. Coming from one of the most prestigious Chinese Universities and having run HR divisions in medium and large size Chinese corporations, she already has a strong relationship with top Chinese universities which will be a great benefit to this project.  Her tasks will include contacting universities and doing the promotion of this program, but she will also in charge of office's daily operation also supervise the marketing team. On top of this she will work with our legal representation to help cryptocurrency (and Dash in particular) in Thailand.

Legal representation

We have been in contact with Harvey Law Group. They were the only law firm in Thailand that we found that knew about cryptocurrency and we found that they were best suited for our needs.

Representative office

In order to open the internship program, we need a legal structure that can accomodate us. Harvey law group explained to us that Thai immigration would frown upon and possibly deny so many foreign students if we didn’t hire a few Thai nationals, and while we will consider thai nationals as normal interns the reality is that Thailand is way behind in the blockchain space and it would be doubtful to find quality computer science interns.

To remedy this problem we propose also creating a Thailand Office with the purpose of promoting Dash first in Thailand and then expanding to surrounding countries such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Burma. In Malaysia for example a proposal passed to promote DASH, and now in the past 90 days Malaysia has by far the most downloads on Mobile ; 13 times the downloads of thailand and twice that of australia.

This really is a double win for us, at would solve 2 problems with 1 solution.

Roles in representative office:
  • Accountant/Assistant
  • Senior Marketing Manager
  • 2x Junior Marketing Researcher
  • Event Planner / Organizer
  • Event Assistant
  • UI/UX Designer
  • Website Developper

Trademarking Dash in Thailand

From Harvey Law Group : “Thailand is not party to any international conventions or treaties providing reciprocal enforcement with regard to trademarks. Only by registering locally can a trademark owner be assured of his rights over the trademark within the Kingdom of Thailand.”
Costs here are about 2000$ per trademark, let’s start by trademarking Dash in both english and Thai, and then maybe trademark Instant Send and Digital Cash later.

Details of project in Phases

The project will now go in 3 phases for the next 11 months :

Phase 1 (2 Months):

- Start of Creation of Legal Entity in Thailand.
- Angela and Arnaud will contact universities and try to get top quality applicants.

Phase 2 (3 Months):

- Creation of Legal Entity in Thailand.
- Trademarking Dash in the Kingdom of Thailand.
- 4 Interns will start 3-6 month internships.

Phase 1 & 2 Budget:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UFV10eUHAiRtQVN-1TOKT8dsyjhQ1KnsKgUL_oNDVbk/edit?usp=sharing

Total Cost for Phase 1 & 2 : $286,595

Deliverables:

- Dash trademarked in Thailand.
- Creation of Legal Entity with BOI structure to allow future endeavors.
- Relationships created with universities.
- Explanation of internship projects, both those that started, and those for phase 2.
- Initial work provided by interns.
- Increase of testnet size by 20 Masternodes for 1 year. (We are requesting the prefunding to increase this to 100, but will only be able to deliver this once the legal entity is set up.)

Phase 3 (6 Months) 

- Those 4 interns will be allowed into Thailand (if they aren't already in Thailand) and will be joined by 4 more.
- Writing of research papers.
- Creation of Dash Thailand Marketing Department as detailed above.
- Work on getting businesses to accept Dash and promoting Dash in thailand.

Phase 3 Budget
:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XYMzEc1SDtFcZY-T7wuZQ3i_hWxx8R83wmg4Ksn7qhI/edit?usp=sharing

Deliverables:

- Finished work provided by interns.
- 6-8 reviewed blockchain research papers.
- Increase in Dash usage in Thailand verifiable by mobile download data.
- Business partnerships.
- Strong presence in Thailand.
- Increase of testnet size by 80 more Masternodes for 1 year.

Total Cost for Phase 3 : $298,943

Requested funding is as follows for the February 1st budget cycle:
  • 455 Dash for Phase 1-2 ($286,595 @ 630$ per Dash)
  • 5 Dash for the proposal cost.
Total: 460 Dash.

Because of Thai law, the office will need to acquire sufficient initial funding to prove to the Thai government that we have funds. This means that at its start a certain amount will have to be initially deposited into the Thai bank account from overseas before we can start hiring people.  Even though phase 1-2 costs far less than phase 3, we put some of the required capital of phase 3 into phase 2 for this purpose

This proposal is being made at a price of 630$/Dash and will be made for phase 1-2 only which will last 5 months.  At that point we will make another proposal for phase 3.  We decomposed this proposal in such a way that all funds from phase 1-2 (if the Dash price goes up) will automatically just be used for phase 3.  No extra money will go in the pockets of either Angela or Arnaud, with Quantum Explorer having an eye on all finances.   Because of volatility and possible unforeseen future events we have included a 10% margin in our calculations.

Every month we will submit a monthly expenditures report to the community.

Thank you for reading this proposal. We appreciate your support if you liked it.

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,2 years ago
Why hire interns? Why not create a more permanent team?
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2 points,2 years ago
The goals of this program are to create relationships with universities, get research papers written, and train fresh graduates that could either then be hired for core, or maybe be kept on internally to help clients integrate with evolution services. There are more goals outlined in the comments below.
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1 point,2 years ago
MNO, Sydney, Australia
Yes given. But sceptical. Please give regular updates on what is being delivered.
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1 point,2 years ago
Do not worry, regular updates will be given.
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5 points,2 years ago
I am happy to see this turn around over the last six days. I remember this was barely above ground when I voted on this a few days back! Also happy to see people changed their minds.. Congratulations quantamexplorer, make us proud!
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2 points,2 years ago
That's the goal, I really believe strongly in this project and I think it can do a lot of good for Dash. I'm very thankful for the people supporting it, but also want to prove to the naysayers that they were wrong and indeed make the community proud.
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2 points,2 years ago
After reading the other opinions, I agree with your appreciation of finding talent for Dash and if you will supervise your, with your deep knowledge, then this is better. You have my support. Thank you for you proposal.
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2 points,2 years ago
you got my support
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6 points,2 years ago
Having gone through the proposal again, I have decided to reverse my vote.

I am not a fan of the Thailand angle I must admit but I think the initiative is too important to be voted down. I sincerely hope this doesnt get trapped in legal quagmire and I wish you all the best..
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-2 points,2 years ago
"interns" in thailand eh...
Suuuuuuure, bud ;)
Do MNOs get to visit?
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4 points,2 years ago
Sure, if MNOs want to come visit once the office space is set up they would be more than welcome to. Just message me on forums/discord.
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-3 points,2 years ago
Thai legal navigation is going to be very difficult do not be surprised to see this proposal vanish like shrem

My vote NO
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3 points,2 years ago
I've been in Dash since the first week (was darkcoin), came out with the Dash name that I originally called Digital Cash, or Cash + 1. I am currently head of mobile dev for core with a pretty big team size. I feel very attached to the Dash project and I want to contribute as much as I can and as often as I can which is why I initiated this proposal. I see things I think will benefit Dash and I push to have those problems solved.

As for Thailand I understand that what seems distant or foreign might seem impossible to you. I know my Thailand based team will prove you wrong. I can't be sure at this point that everything will work out 100% as we want, there are no guarantees when working with any government, but I can tell you the funds won't vanish and will be used for the goals of this project with no money going into my pockets. I have a good law firm hired, a good team on the ground, and things have been going extremely well so far. I'm repeating myself here but I would put the chances of success at around 90%. In the case of those other 10%, we will go to plan B and find a way to make this work for students this year. And in the worst case scenario where everything has failed the Dash/Fiat will be returned to the community, either by being sent to core or any solution the community decides.

All I ask of you is that when this succeeds you publicly admit you were wrong.
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3 points,2 years ago
I voted yes to this. I think it's a challenging proposal and needs input from the community as it progresses but it's worth funding and trying to make it work. It could deliver some gold nuggets to the Dash ecosystem. Good luck !
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1 point,2 years ago
I think the tide is turning. Raise your hand if you want a bunch of smart young talent to become new devs for Dash. I really think it's that simple. And if it goes well and produces results (how could it not....) I think we should copy the model in 6 or 8 other countries. How many ICO's raised 10's of millions of dollars in an hour? And now they're going to need actual devs to turn the white paper into a functional product. Where are all those devs going to come from? Maybe it's unfair that we hog the talented young dev market for Dash. Maybe I don't care....

solarguy
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1 point,2 years ago
yes, good luck! hope No-Voters will change their mind before cycle ends!
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-2 points,2 years ago
It's a good idea, however I'm very skeptical they will be able to successfully navigate the Thai legal/financial system. Voting no.
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3 points,2 years ago
Check this out -> http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings . Thailand is the 26th country in the world in terms of ease of doing business. That's better than Spain, France, and many others. We didn't go into this proposal blindly. It was made after multiple months of meticulous planning. We have a law firm behind us and we are going for a specific legal/financial structure that will be super beneficial in the long term with a close to 0% corporate tax rate. Nothing is sure in life, but if you don't try you stand still and slowly die. I would say our chances of success here are close to 90%, and that's why I'm so much behind this proposal. In the case of those other 10%, we will go to plan B and find a way to make this work for students this year. And in the worst case scenario where everything has failed the Dash/Fiat will be returned to the community, either by being sent to core or any solution the community decides. Once again I'm not taking any salary/fee and will not make any type of monetary gain from this proposal but I will be in control of funds.
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2 points,2 years ago
สวัสดี ครับ I live in Thailand for 10 years now (Phetchabun) and am such a big Dash fan that I recently started making Dash Art as a hobby. Nothing fancy, just some picture alteration in the evening to wind down :)

https://twitter.com/dkoedijk (more to follow soon)

I hope the proposal gets a pass. The benefits to Dash, the community and the network will be huge. Also, for an intern to be able to work in Thailand is an amazing experience. Hard not to fall in love with the friendly people, the food, the culture, the respect for each other and even the climate.

If there is any way I can contribute something, don't hesitate to ask.
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2 points,2 years ago
191 no? We need to invest more into the future development of dash. Core is already being pushed close to their limits so we need more research groups to help out and at the same time to create invaluable assets for the future. We just spent 810 Dash on sponsoring a TV series! This internship program is going to bring in a lot more value than that.
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5 points,2 years ago
From the Marketing side of the DAO,

I have to agree with Beru on this. Marketing can only present and represent what our developers create. This proposal benefits development not only currently, but lays the path to future dev for dash.

Very well structured execution points and involvement from a well known Dash core member.

Beru wrote:
I dont understand MNOs sometimes. Complaining about too much marketing, not enough development...
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4 points,2 years ago
I agree. We always say we want more development, then we get this proposal and vote no? I'm baffled.

Voting no to this actually hurts our future development potential..
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3 points,2 years ago
I really don't understand the no votes on this one
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-6 points,2 years ago
I can explain: interns don't know how to do anything. Hire me some pros.
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9 points,2 years ago
I did my graduate internship for USC's research division. That internship was funded by NASA. Try telling me I didn't didn't know how to do anything back then. The best students in the world have been studying non stop and might still be at 30 years old if they went for a PHD. We will offering these extremely talented individuals from around the world an opportunity to help us. They currently have no means to do that. After that the best people from this program will surely go on to work for core. Do you think it's easy for core to recruit? There is a massive shortage of people who actually know what they are doing in the blockchain space. I initiated this proposal to fix our shortcomings, to create relationships that we will be able to lean on and to further cryptocurrency. This is a R&D proposal, but if you want more marketing instead that's your prerogative as a MNO.

I would like to make something extremely clear, these aren't interns in the sense of a an intern that brings you coffee or plans your meetings. These are graduate students, talented ones, looking for an opportunity to help build the future. Let's have them work for us instead of them going to work for NASA.
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4 points,2 years ago
Sold. Yes. Thanks for the explanation.
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4 points,2 years ago
I dont understand MNOs sometimes. Complaining about too much marketing, not enough devellopement... If this proposal dont pass we will look like the fools we are. Voting yes.
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3 points,2 years ago
I agree with solarguy's points -- we need to invest to expand the Dash developer community. The core team is doing their thing, but we might as well do this in parallel. Solid yes
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6 points,2 years ago
This merits a shot based on the quality of people willing to put effort into this. I was initially hesitant to support this but I agree with the well reasoned analysis put out by solarguy. I vote yes on the hope that the execution will be a lot better than the plan..

Better communication and presentation would have made this a lot simpler to support..
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6 points,2 years ago
I think this has more value than the vast majority of proposals that pass. If the masternodes are able to rationalize giving multiple millions to Ben Swann, I'm not sure how they can not fund this.
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5 points,2 years ago
I was going to post the exact same thing.. agree 100%
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3 points,2 years ago
This proposal has a lot of moving parts, so I am still analyzing various bits and pieces, but I think a small overview would be helpful for further discussion.

1. I think it fair to say that the majority (on Core, in the Masternode community, the larger Dash community, basically all the players ) believe that the Core team has their hands full at the moment working on Evolution. Because of the "all hands on deck/full speed ahead" condition, there are some "grunt work" things that would be great to make progress on, but there just are not enough (smart) warm bodies.

Lot's of folks have expressed the view, "Just hire more people, we're swimming in money. Go faster! Go faster!!!!"

2. There is now something of a shortage in the pool of developers/programmers that know about blockchain tech. This problem alone could be a huge factor in determining which projects succeed and advance, and which ones die on the vine. This shortage is about to become acutely worse in the next 18 months because of the ICO problem. The crypto ecosystem just started 100 new projects that will require actual developers to put their white paper into production.

3. In light of this impending talent shortage and expanded work load, Ryan put forward a prop. to go find more talent with crypto experience. That prop. is passing with flying colors, which is cool. It should. The Dash Internship proposal for Thailand is another method of attracting, hiring and training young talent. This would accomplish at least four things. Some of the grunt work that Core doesn't have time for right now could be accomplished. Wooo hooo. Also, we end with more talent, and they "grow up" and gain skills specifically for working on the Dash project. More wooo hoooo. The Dash community makes it even more apparent to the world that if you have skills and ambition, Dash might like to hire you (and we have actual money to pay you with.) And finally, Thailand is an enormous emerging market for crypto, and this effort gives us a foothold for future expansion and promotion in Thailand.

4. There were some questions/concerns about whether or not this prop. really originated with core members. After having chatted with Quantumexplorer (Core member) I am convinced this is exactly where this came from.

5. It looks a bit on the expensive side, and certainly, it is not a trivial amount of money. But, a substantial percent of the asking price is to get the initial groundwork done. This is like setting up a mini research center. There's just no cheap way to do that. But once accomplished, funding costs of the program per month should drop substantially.

For the above reasons, I am voting yes. But in the event that it does not pass, I would strongly recommend another prop., perhaps scaled back a little to get the ball rolling in Thailand and demonstrate some meaningful progress on the grunt work, and then scale it up from there as needed.

Or hey, just approve the thing and let's get on with winning.

Carry on, have fun, win! solarguy
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1 point,2 years ago
I absolutely love this idea, I just wish it was NOT in Thailand. I understand Thailand is a great place for digital nomads to setup shop because it's so affordable to live there, but from the perspective of starting a business/legal entity there it has a reputation for being very bureaucratic and difficult. I could be wrong, I don't live there, but that's what I've heard from others. Is there any reason your specifically choosing Thailand other than the fact that you live there. I would much rather see something like this setup in a place like Belarus, that has access to eastern europe's tech talent and is literally begging crypto-startups to come there, setup shop and pay no taxes.

https://www.coindesk.com/belarus-government-cuts-taxes-crypto-businesses/

Again, love the idea, just don't like Thailand, I think you're trying to swim upstream here and we have better options.
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4 points,2 years ago
Yeah you are right about Thailand not being the easiest place to set this up, it being in Thailand however means that I can keep an eye on things to make sure they succeed. There are some easier/better countries on an administrative point of view and I'm sure that's true, not so many though, as immigration is difficult in a lot of places.

The point is that I have a team ready to start now that will make this ready for this summer internships and that I have faith in.

While Belarus might look good on paper, for regulations and crypto, I'm pretty sure telling interns to go to Belarus might be a hard sell, though I might be biased here. Also do we have anyone in Belarus the community could trust with doing this (obviously people don't even trust me, and I'm one of the first devs on the project)?

In my mind do both, set this up in as many countries as we can if we can find verifiable, honest community members who actually know what they are doing to manage the centers, the more we invest in students and the future the better off we will be.
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4 points,2 years ago
Well, you're getting my vote(s). You have a valid point about already having boots on the ground. I'd personally would like to see a lot more of this and perhaps if you are successful it could be replicated in other regions. I want to see would like to see a lot more R&D, technical white papers, crazy ideas could explored.. like zksnarks on Dash, etc.. it's the innovation of this project that got me to invest early on and we need to build up a larger development community to work on the project, which IMO is a far better long term investment than spending egregious sums on advertising..
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0 points,2 years ago
The video is a bit "unfocussed". It gets there in the end, but i would remake it in a snappier way if I were you. You need to get to the point MUCH faster.
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5 points,2 years ago
I realize my video isn't all that great. I have my hands pretty full right now, and I didn't want to have this project step on my main responsibilities in Core so I made the video pretty quickly even though I should most likely have put more effort into it. When I see problems I just try to fix them. I really just want what's best for Dash, I've always been that way, I just surely didn't do a good job of communicating why this is important for us.

To those who want a gist of why this is important :
*It creates relationships with universities.
*It gives students and recent graduates opportunities in the blockchain space.
*It gives Core a talent pool to hire from.
*It will double the size of Testnet for the students.
*It will create tools that Core could later use.
*It will (hopefully) publish research papers giving more credibility to our mission in the eyes of Academia.
*It will allow us to have a presence in a country where we have no presence and possibly help educate the interested Thai people about the power and benefits of the blockchain and the dash blockchain tech in particular. Thailand has no official position on Cryptocurrency yet, do we want them to get burned by ICOs?

Those are the reasons I started this proposal. I'm sorry if I did a really bad job of communicating this before.
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2 points,2 years ago
Ok, gonna vote yes. I can see its something i want to support, and its people i trust
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6 points,2 years ago
The test part is often forgotten, the discovery and the recruitment of talent take time and money. Two in one. I want to see where it will lead.
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6 points,2 years ago
I think this is an amazing idea, and would love to see this up and running. Definite yes from me.
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7 points,2 years ago
Hi guys, I would just like to clarify that this is indeed the proposal initiated by me. The dash amount was sent to an address for DashThailand but under my control, and I will act as an escrow and disburse funds to the project accordingly. I also would like to add that I will take no salary or funds from this proposal. Me, Alexander Chopan (head of strategy), Ryan and multiple different core members had thought about possibly doing this proposal inside of core, but because of the legal aspect, the size and the scope of the project it was decided it was best left outside of core in its own proposal. Vote yes, you won't be let down. I'll make a video with Angela Zhang in the upcoming days explaining the proposal if MNOs think it's necessary.
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4 points,2 years ago
I would appreciate a video further explaining this proposal!
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4 points,2 years ago
Uploaded proposal explanation given to us by quantum.
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5 points,2 years ago
Sure I'll make it and send it to Angela tomorrow so she can include it. I made one today, but it ended up being 25 minutes long and I lost my voice halfway through (I have a bad cold), so it was decided not to include it.
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2 points,2 years ago
Sounds great , is there some marketing involved in the process ??
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0 points,2 years ago
Yeah I'm uploading a video now explaining the project.
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-5 points,2 years ago
Who's going to fund your "office" after all that money is blown away?
Not convinced at this time.
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7 points,2 years ago
In all fairness do you really think blown away is applicable here? The average salary we are providing is around 2.7k USD/person. At that rate its about 51k per month + about 6k per month in other expenses which include rent and utilities, and that's when we are full on interns and about 30k/month just for the investment into Thailand.

The GDP of Thailand is 0.6% of the world GDP when we exclude countries that have banned crypto, 0.6% of our current budget is 33000$, which is line with the type of investment we should make into the country and what is being requested for the Thai part of this proposal.

These 19 people won't just be doing nothing either. 10 will be contributing to Dash in a dev/research capacity. And 9 will go to promoting Dash in Thailand. At Wonderfruit Music Festival near Pattaya one stage was supported by Ethereum this year with a lot of people talking about Ethereum there. It matters. We need more investment into countries that have no yet taken a negative stance on crypto.

We really do hope we can find a way to convince you that the ROI here is very high.
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-3 points,2 years ago
I don't support spending money on lawyers, immigration processes, visas etc unless it is absolutely critical. Once legal expenses of this nature start they never end. It is a bottomless pit and lawyers can drain the biggest treasuries.

Six months later, there will be another request for big funds with the job 'nearly done' and a host of unforseen problems.

Forced hiring of locals to please immigration officials isnt something I support either.

Internships are good but without this whole Thailand-Immigration angle. Voting no..
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8 points,2 years ago
Thanks for your feedback Undash63. To start off, no one likes legal fees, but we live in a world system where you either get lawyers or you go to jail. In this proposal only 6% of funds are going to lawyers and fees. These are not American lawyers with outrageous pricing per hour. We have a commitment by the law group to finish all the legal framework for a specific fiat amount. We are well aware of the bottomless pit that legal fees could entail, but this project was well thought out with months of preparation and won't fall into those traps.

About forced hiring of locals, well they will not just twiddle their thumbs, we have a plan to heavily promote Dash in Thailand with events and get businesses on board. Quantum has told us that Thailand is basically absent from the Dash usage map with ICOs being a dominant force on the ground instead. Our plan is to use that Thai work force to change this.

The Thai immigration angle has you voting no on this, while you support the Internship, Research and Academia aspect. We would love for our community to find a better solution than the one outlined here, do you have any ideas of how we could proceed? Quantum has said that from his discussions internal to core, legally speaking getting interns from around the world just wasn't possible, as it would be too much of a legal quagmire.

Here we propose a legal structure to accomplish these goals, with a small legal fee of around 6%, but are open to other suggestions from the community.
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-3 points,2 years ago
It is hard to judge this proposal without people from CORE chiming in as to whether this is helpful or not.
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