Proposal “demote-ryan-taylor-to-an-advisory-role“ (Closed)Back

Title:DEMOTE RYAN TAYLOR to an Advisory Role and INSTRUCT HR TO HIRE A NEW CEO
Owner:SavingPrivateDash
One-time payment: 5 DASH (328 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-08-17 / 2018-09-16 (added on 2018-08-06)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 154 Yes / 1057 No / 22 Abstain

Proposal description

DEMOTE RYAN TAYLOR to an Advisory Role and INSTRUCT HR TO HIRE A NEW CEO. 

Edit 1: If this proposal does not pass in this cycle, I will still submit two other ones on the next: one to fire Fernando and another to fire Bradley. Also on 2019 Jan 01, I will submit this exact same proposal again (Demoting Ryan Taylor). Let's see how many of you change your mind after realizing Evolution was not delivered, and deadlines from the roadmap were missed yet again. 

Edit 2:  I do not have any other alias and I do not post on reddit, dash forum or discord, because Dash communities are not welcoming to criticism. 

Reasons: 

  1. Ryan destroyed the market's confidence in Dash by repeatedly breaking promises and missing deadlines. Dash was once valued at 0.09BTC and it is now 0.02, in spite of millions of dollars available to him. Vault accounts, usernames, friends lists, easy to use mobile wallets, marketplace. None of the 2016 promises were kept. Even Amanda Johnson, once Dash's biggest fan and now nowhere to be seen, said publicly she would give DCG until Dec 31 2018 to deliver on Evolution. Unfortunately, she is in for yet another disappointment, since we are in August 2018 and there isn't even a roadmap yet. If Ryan were to present one during this quarterly call, there is no reason he should be believed.

  2. Ryan has grown his company irresponsibly. There are 6,176 DASH available in the budget and DCG has about $500,000 in monthly expenses. Dash is now below $200, and $500,000 / 6176 = $80.95. That means if the DASH price goes below $80, not only there won't be funds for any other community projects, but also not enough to pay the salaries of DCG employees. The threshold for complete chaos is probably around $150-$160, because there are other financial obligations that they need to meet besides salaries. I wonder how much confidence the employees have in Ryan's leadership knowing their salaries are at risk.

  3. Ryan had access to more than $30,000,000 USD in funding and didn't create a safety net for DCG. Because of his unforgivable mistake, other important community projects are either already defunded or in serious risk of being defunded. Ryan jeopardized the financial stability of his entire company, and many other community projects, in spite of the ludicrous amounts of money that were available to him. 

  4. Technology. Big promises were made and we expected reasonable results in reasonable times. Users, merchants, investors and everyone else in the ecosystem had high expectations but didn't see meaningful releases in the past 3 years. We still don't have features promised in Evolution, Private Send still takes way too long (it took me almost 2 days to mix 5 DASH), Dash.org and the Dash Core Wallet are still the same they were 2 years ago, and so on. There are thousands of other cryptocurrencies being actively developed and timing is essential. People cared about logins and passwords in 2016, but won't in 2019-2020 if and when this is released. Perhaps we would do better by breaking Dash Core into individual teams, where each apply for their own funding. Instead of 100 DASH all going to DCG, the Marketing Team applies for 30, Evolution Team for 60 and Business Development for 10. 

  5. Marketing. Ryan made the mistake of promoting Fernando Gutierrez to CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) back in Jan 17 2018. As a lawyer with no experience, creativity, or talent for marketing, Fernando has an impressive track record of zero results in 8 months.  He had at his disposal millions of dollars and still have nothing to show for. The Dash brand is in dire need of professional tender love and care. He is doing the best he can with the limited resources he has (talent, experience, creativity), and it is Ryan's fault for misallocating human resources. The new CEO should move Fernando to a different position and instruct HR to hire a new CMO. 

  6. Business Development. Ryan made the mistake of hiring Bradley Zastrow on Dec 15 2017. For the past 8 months, the guy has been bullshitting his way with meaningless updates and also zero results. Things like "30 conversations focusing on 9 integrations", and "30+ conversations focusing on 6 integrations" are his way of saying he is working, but not delivering. Imagine a sales person that does not make a single sale. Ever. His list of accomplishments includes things like "Attended Consensus" and "Attended Alt36 conference". If Bradley were a community project he would have been defunded after just two months. He is allowed to underperform and underdeliver without consequences, in spite of the disproportional salary he receives.

  7. Ryan is not a leader. Since Evan Duffield left, Dash Core Group has been a stale and boring company that does not innovate! Ryan failed to create a sense of urgency and a culture of results. His company has taken millions of dollars from the budget and still does not have any meaningful achievements on Marketing, Business Development, and most importantly, on Technology. No other entity in the Dash ecosystem consumes so much resources and delivers so little. Even small community projects with modest budgets have far more to show for than DCG's bloated and fully funded departments. We need a dependable, energetic, and passionate CEO. One that would care deeply about our brand, that would be involved in important community projects, that would have a say on important proposals, that would DELIVER and KEEP HIS PROMISES.
These kind of results would not be accepted anywhere else in the real world, and decentralization does not mean lack of accountability. Employees must produce reasonable results in reasonable time. Promises made are promises kept. Investments must yield returns. Mistakes have consequences, and repeated mistakes have serious consequences. Execute "the new CEO" move to restore the confidence in Dash, and elect someone whose words everyone can trust and respect.

I am a masternode owner and I care enough about Dash to put up $1000 of my own money into a proposal that I know has a small chance of passing, but I did it anyway as I think this will be the best way to go. 

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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5 points,3 months ago
The following is a rebuttal to this proposal written by Dash community member kanuuker who is the initiator of thedashbrain.com. I am posting on his behalf as he is currently not able to comment in here himself.
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1. “Ryan destroyed the market's confidence in Dash by repeatedly breaking promises and missing deadlines. Dash was once valued at 0.09BTC and it is now 0.02, in spite of millions of dollars available to him. Vault accounts, usernames, friends lists, easy to use mobile wallets, marketplace. None of the 2016 promises were kept. Even Amanda Johnson, once Dash's biggest fan and now nowhere to be seen, said publicly she would give DCG until Dec 31 2018 to deliver on Evolution. Unfortunately, she is in for yet another disappointment, since we are in August 2018 and there isn't even a roadmap yet. If Ryan were to present one during this quarterly call, there is no reason he should be believed.”

Ryan has not broken a single promise or missed a deadline by any unreasonable amount. The original roadmap for Evolution was developed before before Ryan was CEO and before any real work on Evolution had been started. It was overly optimistic and Ryan said so when he took the position as DCG CEO. The timeline was readjusted to Evolution being released in Q4 2018. Dash is still on track to meet that goal.

All coins have suffered significant losses during this bear market. Even though Dash has fallen a significant amount from the all time high, it's not as bad as savingprivatedash makes it sound. Dash had a higher peak relative to BTC during the late 2017 bull run but beyond that short and exceptional period, the Dash price has been pretty much lock step with BTC. Savingprivatedash is cherry picking his data to paint a false picture.

Usernames, friend lists, easy to use mobile wallets are all part of Evolution which is scheduled to be released later this year. User vaults, which I'm assuming he means masternode shares, are not scheduled to be included with the initial release of Evolution. There is no defined timeline for this feature but it's likely going to be at least a year from now.

Amanda is still actively involved in Dash, just not in the public. While it's certainly possible, I have never heard her give an ultimatum to DCG about Evolution nor has savingprivatedash given any evidence to support this claim. Regardless, it doesn't really matter. While Amanda will always hold a special place in Dash, Dash is not dependent upon what Amanda thinks or does.

The new roadmap was released with the Q3 quarterly call as planned. It was known to be scheduled to be released at that time and before savingprivatedash made his proposal. He is being disingenuous in this claim.


2. “Ryan has grown his company irresponsibly. There are 6,176 DASH available in the budget and DCG has about $500,000 in monthly expenses. Dash is now below $200, and $500,000 / 6176 = $80.95. That means if the DASH price goes below $80, not only there won't be funds for any other community projects, but also not enough to pay the salaries of DCG employees. The threshold for complete chaos is probably around $150-$160, because there are other financial obligations that they need to meet besides salaries. I wonder how much confidence the employees have in Ryan's leadership knowing their salaries are at risk.”

Ryan has grown and restructured DCG rather significantly but he has not done so irresponsibly. Dash is much bigger than just a blockchain and needs a full sized team to meet these demands. What Ryan has put together is a professional team with loads of experience. Ryan has built a foundation that is able to take Dash far into the future. At this point, there is still plenty of money in the monthly recurring treasury to pay for DCG. If the price were to drop to $80, the worst case scenario is they tighten their belts. Several Core members have promised to forgo their salary if treasury were not able to sustain them. There are also other contingency plans but I don't know what they are specifically. Lastly, with significant real world adoption and all the new partnerships and integrations, Dash is not likely to ever drop as low as $80. Also, this entire argument falls apart as soon as the price rises.

The treasury was created to fund development, nothing more. The treasury funds that other projects get are just gravy and most projects realize this. It certainly has been difficult for many of the them though, I won’t deny that. However, other means of funding like DashBoost and DashDonate have come on the scene to fill in the gaps left by the treasury. Also, many masternode owners have personally donated significant sums to help out projects.

That being said, during the last quarterly call, DCG made a pledge to never ask for more than 60% of the treasury in normal circumstances and never more than 80% in exceptional circumstances.

The threshold for complete chaos is demonstrably not $150 as he claims as the price got lower than that and there was virtually no disord in the community. This is nothing but speculation designed to sow dissent. The fact that this proposal has the most negative votes of any proposal in Dash's history is proof of the community's support for Ryan.


3. “Ryan had access to more than $30,000,000 USD in funding and didn't create a safety net for DCG. Because of his unforgivable mistake, other important community projects are either already defunded or in serious risk of being defunded. Ryan jeopardized the financial stability of his entire company, and many other community projects, in spite of the ludicrous amounts of money that were available to him.”

There is and was a safety net but it was not as large as they wanted due to tax reasons. DCG had already started to develop a legal framework to get around this tax burden but the bear market hit before they were done. Keep in mind that Dash is navigating uncharted legal waters. Dash is the first DAO to ever be legally recognized and it takes time to develop such a legal framework. It is true that other projects have not been able to be funded during the bear market but as I already said, the treasury is to fund DCG first and foremost.

savingprivatedash is playing both sides of the coin here. Sure, Ryan may have had access to $30,000,000 but that was during the ATH. DCG keeps its funds in Dash. If they exchanged them to USD then savingprivatedash would have accused DCG of not truly believing in the project and selling out. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


4. “Technology. Big promises were made and we expected reasonable results in reasonable times. Users, merchants, investors and everyone else in the ecosystem had high expectations but didn't see meaningful releases in the past 3 years. We still don't have features promised in Evolution, Private Send still takes way too long (it took me almost 2 days to mix 5 DASH), Dash.org and the Dash Core Wallet are still the same they were 2 years ago, and so on. There are thousands of other cryptocurrencies being actively developed and timing is essential. People cared about logins and passwords in 2016, but won't in 2019-2020 if and when this is released. Perhaps we would do better by breaking Dash Core into individual teams, where each apply for their own funding. Instead of 100 DASH all going to DCG, the Marketing Team applies for 30, Evolution Team for 60 and Business Development for 10.”

I already covered how the initial timeline was developed before Ryan took over as CEO and how Dash is on track since the roadmap was revised.

PrivateSend does not take days to mix 5 Dash, this is an outright lie. I regularly churn 5 Dash and it only takes a few hours. I believe it's going to get even faster with v12.4 and then even faster (maybe even instant, I'm not sure about that) with Evolution.

He is correct in that Dash.org has not changed and people are starting to complain. We are told there is a full rework in progress and it's supposed to be ready with the release of Evolution. I haven't seen anything to back up this claim but nor have I seen anything to doubt it. If the website is not ready for the launch of Evolution, I would expect/request the contracts of those responsible to not be renewed.

He is lying when he says that the dash core wallet has not changed in 2 years. There have been several updates, only the interface has not changed. The changes have all been related to building a foundation for Evolution, not making it look pretty. That would be a waste of time and resources.

There are demos of the features of Evolution (usernames, dsdk, dapi, etc). All of the hard work is done, it's just a matter of putting it all together.

Sure, there are thousands of cryptocurrencies being developed but most of them are crap and won’t survive. None have the four year history of continual innovation that Dash has.

By asking that DCG be separated into several groups, I believe that savingprivatedash is actually trying to break up the team that Ryan has put together. The goal of DCG is to create a base for other projects to build from. To do this, they need a singular focus that can only come from a cohesive team.
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5 points,3 months ago
CONTINUED:
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5. “Marketing. Ryan made the mistake of promoting Fernando Gutierrez to CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) back in Jan 17 2018. As a lawyer with no experience, creativity, or talent for marketing, Fernando has an impressive track record of zero results in 8 months. He had at his disposal millions of dollars and still have nothing to show for. The Dash brand is in dire need of professional tender love and care. He is doing the best he can with the limited resources he has (talent, experience, creativity), and it is Ryan's fault for misallocating human resources. The new CEO should move Fernando to a different position and instruct HR to hire a new CMO.”

While I know very little about Fernando, savingprivatedash’s claims are pure speculation. That being said, I don’t entirely disagree with his critique of the results. So far, I'm not impressed with the marketing efforts that DCG has initiated. We have had better success with non-DCG efforts. However, my knowledge of DCG’s marketing is superficial and there very well could be more going on behind the scenes I’m not aware of.


6. “Business Development. Ryan made the mistake of hiring Bradley Zastrow on Dec 15 2017. For the past 8 months, the guy has been bullshitting his way with meaningless updates and also zero results. Things like "30 conversations focusing on 9 integrations", and "30+ conversations focusing on 6 integrations" are his way of saying he is working, but not delivering. Imagine a sales person that does not make a single sale. Ever. His list of accomplishments includes things like "Attended Consensus" and "Attended Alt36 conference". If Bradley were a community project he would have been defunded after just two months. He is allowed to underperform and underdeliver without consequences, in spite of the disproportional salary he receives.”

This point is a load of bull. Bradley has brought in several important integrations and partnerships in Q3 alone including General Bytes, Rewards.com, bitgo, Paycent, and Alogateway. He has already brought in more integrations this quarter.

With the exception of Bitcoin, I don’t know of any other projects who have more partners and integrations than Dash. Certainly not Bitcoin Cash, Litecoin, or Monero, Dash’s closest competitors.


7. “Ryan is not a leader. Since Evan Duffield left, Dash Core Group has been a stale and boring company that does not innovate! Ryan failed to create a sense of urgency and a culture of results. His company has taken millions of dollars from the budget and still does not have any meaningful achievements on Marketing, Business Development, and most importantly, on Technology. No other entity in the Dash ecosystem consumes so much resources and delivers so little. Even small community projects with modest budgets have far more to show for than DCG's bloated and fully funded departments. We need a dependable, energetic, and passionate CEO. One that would care deeply about our brand, that would be involved in important community projects, that would have a say on important proposals, that would DELIVER and KEEP HIS PROMISES.”

The Dash community and masternodes seem to strongly disagree with this point thus proving that Ryan is a leader. While DCG has changed significantly under Ryan's leadership, it most definitely is not stale or boring. DCG is now the most professional and best organized development team in crypto with maybe the exception of Ripple. DCG has been blazing a very exciting trail in many areas beyond the basic blockchain. Dash Ventures for example, is a mind blowing game changer.

As I said that start of my refutation, Ryan has not missed a goal or broken a single promise. The only delays have been typical of every software project ever.


Ultimately, even though presented as concern for the Dash network, this proposal is nothing more than an insidious attempt to create dissent in the Dash community and tarnish the reputation of Dash to those who don’t follow the project closely. It failed. What it showed is not only how open and decentralized the Dash system is where someone can submit a proposal for personnel change and have the network vote on it, but it also showed that by being the least successful proposal in Dash’s history, the Dash community is more united than ever.
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0 points,3 months ago
I'm glad this thread is about expired. I hope the writer does not renew it for the next cycle. I think the basic point of frustration was more than made. support for Ryan is also very clear but I think he's sharp enough that he's already crafting a silver lining for this tough situation. debate is always healthy but It doesnt need to sting this deep. I'm hoping the braintrust at HQ will be proactively improving communication so issues like this are a bit mitigated. all families fight. let's communicate a bit better and continue to pursue the common goal of a payments business that all others envy.
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2 points,3 months ago
The very least “SavingPrivateDash” could have done to attack Ryan Taylor and drag him through the mud would have been to show his real name and face. But “SavingPrivateDash” chose to remain bravely anonymous, just like any random cheap troll. Does “SavingPrivateDash” even have a real name? and a real face? and a real life? Is he nothing more than a interchangeable coward and a bag full of shit?
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1 point,3 months ago
-771 net votes at the time of writing. An absolute record. Even proposals like “UNICORN-RAINBO-ASS” failed less. https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Unicorn-Rainbo-Ass
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-3 points,3 months ago
there is no question we have problems. the business has not been built out. tons of money has been spent and very little traffic has increased through the network. Many people are out of patience. this proposal is clear. the current crew at the top have not been a great startup team.something radical is needed. pouring money into 3rd world countries has been a total failure. last night I tried to mail Evan. mail disabled. our ship is sinking fast. I can only see more lame excuses and no value added to the network. we have never had leadership converted into action.without big changes fast the price is about to nosedive.
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1 point,3 months ago
Maybe just maybe Evan changed his email so he would not get emails from people who consider Dash "a sinking ship". Or maybe he just likes his privacy... anyways you are free to leave this "sinking ship" anytime you please.
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1 point,3 months ago
Pouring money into 3rd world has been a total failure ? Really ? So the news about adoption of Dash in Venezuela and Colombia must be just fake news to you. The only thing about this proposal is that a large majority disagrees with it and downvoted it.
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-1 point,3 months ago
https://www.reuters.com/article/venezuela-economy/inflation-hobbled-venezuela-triples-minimum-wage-to-1-14-month-idUSL1N1TN00P
here is a story with facts, nothing fake. the people of venezuela currently make a dollar USD or so a month. one source has it at 26 cents a day. this country is in terrible shape the "investments" made here were all giveaways that will never any money for MN owners including YOU!
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-1 point,3 months ago
there is no money in these countries. have your nodes paid more than mining rewards this year? it's simple math millions spent, only a trickle came back
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2 points,3 months ago
Dash budget system is to fund its developers, provide seed money to develop Dash grasroot movements, fund marketing, fund business development and possibly fund independent proposals that could bring value to ghe Dash network. Dash budget systeem was never intended nor designed to bring back millions to its budget system.

Dash Ventures may enable in the future that but that will come at higher risks.
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-5 points,3 months ago
Ryan is not a leader - he is an employee - and has been an employee throughout his entire career. His company does not deliver because there are no consequences in missing deadlines, breaking promises, or underperforming. Ryan does not command authority or respect from his employees and a project like Dash needs a firm CEO. Quick to hire and quicker to fire.

I made a proposal to demote him, said I would make another one to fire his senior management, and he appeared on TV to comment on the accomplishments of other teams and other community projects. Ironically these very projects are now defunded because of his gross mismanagement.

Ryan is weak and passive. Dash cannot afford to have a CEO that does not get involved. How many more missed deadlines, broken promises, and meaningless updates is it going to take before other masternodes decide to do something about it to project their investments?
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-5 points,3 months ago
Dash has a community that spent more than 10 millions of dollars on:
- a fighter jet with a Dash logo (about $1million)
- 3 MMA fighters (about $3 million)
- a youtuber / journalist whose videos averaged 2,000 views. (about $3 million)
- a music festival where 100 people used Dash (about $1 million)
- a Dash documentary that was never released (about $1 million)
- a platform for cannabis that was delivered a year late and has no clients (about $1 million)
- a better version of this site for $500,000
- sponsoring soccer teams, cycling teams, and many other amateurish marketing efforts.

When you combine a naive community of masternodes that cannot make responsible business decisions, a community that censor criticism and is hostile to those who voice their opinions (just read the comments here), with a weak and passive leadership that does not get involved, you get Dash 2018: 93% down from ATH, almost broke and nothing delivered.
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3 points,3 months ago
You're numbers are off by a large margin.
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-2 points,3 months ago
I don't enjoy reading things like this but you have several valid points on underdelivering. as a multiyear "payments guy" Ryan has value to a start-up that is building a payments platform. was he qualified to be elevated directly to CEO? the price of DASH answers this. amy start-up is really rocky in it's early days. this project has not taken off as hoped and promised. should we have an across the board reorganization? I think it's quite overdue. when I look at Core I only see one person with significant start-up in their background. I do many people drawing a premium salary in a position they are new to. the results are speaking for themselves on the wisdom of these hires and placements.
will flushing millions of dollars into 2nd and 3rd world countries EVER yield significant benefit to MN owners?? hyperinflated economies might like to see fools giving away free money but celebrating more merchants using DASH in a second world country will not translate into millions of dollars of revenue for those that spent a million or more dollars to be owners of a budding network. the priorities of the seed monies spent to date have been wasted and shouldn't be expected to ever be an overnight success. wake the hell up! the richest economy on the planet is NOT in Africa or South America. be a success HERE first before flushing money into countries controlled by dictators. the business plan to this point relied far too heavily on the treasury being inexhaustible. we need to re-organize with key players who are ACTUALLY experienced in running a start-up! if Ryan is to remain with DASH I'd hope he's already admitted to himself the current team and strategy have little chance of pushing the ball across the finish line. I have no loathing of Ryan but serious changes need to take place quickly or the project will not survive another year. get rid of the bloat and hire people with proven track records that do more than stand around the water cooler wondering if the price will ever rebound by magic. it will not. a lot of focus on a realistic strategy and old fashioned hard work fix many things, but if the wrong people are expected to deliver miracles we will be revisiting this issue again in a few months.
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-2 points,3 months ago
Verification: I'm SavingPrivateDash#8007 on discord
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-1 point,3 months ago
I will no longer participate on Discord because I have reported to the administrator 5 people breaking the rules and insulting me, and the administrator decided to delete my complaint instead.
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-2 points,3 months ago
Verification: I am https://gab.ai/SavingPrivateDash.
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1 point,3 months ago
Thank you
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-5 points,4 months ago
compelling
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1 point,4 months ago
I wish all proposals had this level of engagement, this many comments.
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4 points,4 months ago
Not all proposals have this kind of entertainment value. That's just human nature. Always looking for excitement.
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1 point,3 months ago
What worries me though is when a group finds destruction more interesting then creation.
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6 points,4 months ago
No votes from me. I find Ryan to be a very impressive person.

Having owned and run a software business for 13 years, I have 1st hand experience that software deadlines are impossible to meet.

Ryan, if you happen to read this, my advice is to hire a very good communicator that can clearly keep the community properly informed.
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3 points,4 months ago
Roadmap. Roadmap. Roadmap.
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-3 points,4 months ago
Being impressive does not quality one to be CEO, and not meeting deadlines for 3 years should carry consequences.
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16 points,4 months ago
Well you did spend $1000 to submit this, so I at least took the time to read the full proposal text and consider it. After careful consideration, my decision is no. You are putting way more blame on Ryan Taylor than is warranted. I don't agree with every decision that DCG makes, but IMO right now DCG is better off with Ryan as the CEO.
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-8 points,4 months ago
TroyDASH, nice of you to take some time off from your task of trying to correlate IPs in order to doxx me. Also very nice of you to keep the personal insults on the other platforms you moderate.

This is a long term game and what's best for DCG "right now" is not important. Ryan has been leading for 3-4 years and have nothing to show for. Worse, he had almost a whole year of budget surplus and could easily have created a buffer of several million dollars. Instead he chose to remain silent while masternodes spent millions on airplanes, journalists, music festivals, MMA fighters and so on.

Notice I am not saying he does not contribute to Dash. I am being very careful with my words and I did not ask Ryan to be fired. I want him to continue to stay in the project, but as an advisor. Although I believe he is an intelligent person who brings a lot of value, in my opinion he is fit to be CEO of a project like Dash.

Ryan is not a leader: he does not deliver, he does not influence, he does not inspire.
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11 points,4 months ago
Excuse me, but I did not personally insult you on any of our platforms.

Additionally, I have not asked for your IP. On the *forum*, cross-checking IPs is part of normal procedure when someone is suspected of having multiple accounts. This is on the dash forum ONLY as we do periodically have problems with people abusing multiple-accounts. I do not have access to nor have I ever requested someone's IP from DashCentral, and I certainly would not post someone's forum IP out to the public either as that would be a serious breach of trust. I hope you will not so carelessly accuse people like this in the future.

Regarding the budget surplus, it's damned if you do-damned if you don't. The fact is, DCG did build up a substantial buffer, and IMO requesting millions more would most likely have been seen as excessive by the MNOs. Maybe everyone should have foreseen an 85% market correction? Sorry but a market contraction of this magnitude is going to cause difficulties even for organizations that have more than reasonable financial planning.
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4 points,4 months ago
LOL!
You are almost there, yet 773 Yes votes to fire Ryan off.
Look at the market in general and fire Charlier Lee, Roger Ver and Vitalik Buterin as well as their coins are not going well neither. Come on man. Really? Just relax.
Bury your MN and wake up in a while.
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4 points,4 months ago
I don't believe in firing Ryan Taylor but Dash has fallen form 3rd on Coin Market Cap to 15th. That is not the market but bad marketing! I am definitely for separate teams, with separate funding, to handle software development, business development and marketing.
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2 points,4 months ago
Dash was $46 when it ranked third on coinmarketcap.
Dash is now $186 ranking 14 on coinmarketcap.

Ranks are pretty meaningless on coinmarketcap and are subject to some dramatic shifting, specially in times of bull and bear markets.

Our own marketing (whether good or bad) will do little to influence that.
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-1 point,4 months ago
More insults, thank you. I would if they had a governance system and I wasn't happy with their leadership.
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1 point,4 months ago
You are getting a lot of hate because you are focusing on some lousy arguments and attacking people. A much more productive proposal would have been something like rerouting the core marketing budget to biz dev integrations or venezuela and adding onto the traction already in those areas. I think that is something the MNO's could get behind.
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2 points,4 months ago
1. Ryan has not destroyed market confidence. Firstly, the whole market is down, not just Dash. Secondly, one person can't destroy market confidence in Dash, reduce it slightly, but not destroy. I agree that the Evolution situation isn't ideal. The idea was, I believe, Even's. What evolution is going to accomplish has had to be updated. The initial promise of evolution was the issues, not Core's progress. Everything else you make reference to seems pretty irrelevant.

2. Yes, if the price drops to an arbitrary number we can't afford things.

3. Please elaborate on this $30m and how Ryan should have controlled it.

4. I like this idea in theory. In practice it might be hard to organise with several funded teams. Namely how the teams would work together.

5. Yes, I see why you say this. Marketing seems to have been left to other proposals. There might be more happening behind the scenes, we might find out at the Q2 summary. Also, more information on what all the core team members are doing does need to be released

6. I have no information to add.

7. Ryan is a good front man in my opinion. Even was not a leader, he is a genius and all, but not a leader. I think you are mistaking caution with a lack of urgency. This is people's money! It has to be right! The promises you keep going on about were not his!

You seem to think this is a simple business. It isn't, it is developing technology. Yes, Evolution was “promised” and this was a mistake. But, I don't think Ryan being demoted would help in the slightest

I appreciate you making your thoughts known on this matter. And I understand your frustration with the slow development. As this is people's money we are dealing with, we must proceed with caution and not rush a product out because of a promised date.

Sorry, but I must vote No.
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-6 points,4 months ago
Oh look! A masternode who is not a complete fuck! He didn't attacked OP, made good points and gave his opinion without being a pretentious dick. I didn't think this was possible.
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1 point,4 months ago
No ...Dash Core is taking time, but I can remain patient. Yes, DCG should have created millions of dollars in USD buffer for salaries IMHO.
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12 points,4 months ago
Wow. Just wow. I hope you feel better. Solid No from me. There are more constructive ways to go about such things. I'll be voting no on any and all such rash proposals in the future. Save your money, and think about how to approach this in a calm, constructive manner.

I'll remind you that every coin is suffering in this bear market, we are not special in this regard. Ryan, and it seems the rest of this community, including me, are anti-hype, and are fine treating this as a marathon, not a sprint. We all know quite well that all you need to succeed are properly aligned incentives, and Dash has it. Nobody else does. We will win the long game.

I have no doubts about Ryan's abilities as a CEO. He has brought to Dash incredible things I never would have thought of, and I'm sure he has a lot more up his sleeve. He is clearly working towards the benefit of the network, ensuring that the network's assets are protected. He is making brilliant political and legal moves.

Yes, following the roadmap is taking much longer than expected, but anyone who has ever been involved in complex projects understands that there are many surprises along the way. Remember, we are forging completely new ground here. We only have one chance to get it right, and we have to do it perfectly, lest the trolls overwhelm us.

It is the job of a CEO to build and grow an organization, as much as devs build software. He is doing what he does best, and he's doing it well.

Is it our role to keep Ryan open and accountable? Yes.

Did DCG perhaps get a little ahead of itself during the bull market? I think so.

Does DCG duplicate efforts that are perfectly fine being handled in it's own time by the free market, incentivized by Evan's brilliant treasury system? I think so.

Is it hard to fire people you just onboarded? Absolutely.

May we have to force his hand on this? We may.

Is this anyone's fault? I don't think so.

It is our role as MNOs to assert accountability and reel in the spending as necessary. So, let's do that, but let's do it carefully and constructively.

On the forums, we are awaiting answers from DCG leadership on some basic questions about DCG's organizational structure. When we have those answers, we can have an informed debate. Help us push for those answers.
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3 points,4 months ago
Very good answer!
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-3 points,4 months ago
I challenge you to offer a fact based refutal to my points individually. Things like "he brought incredible things", "brilliant political moves" and "this is a marathon" are not arguments.

If you do an honest assessment you'll realize he isn't the CEO you think he is.
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4 points,4 months ago
Voting no on this. I think Ryan Taylor is good spoke's person and leader for DASH.

However, I would like to raise a few points in this proposal as they are associated with the theme and I think these points are relevant.

MNOs have to accept at least some of the responsibility for the poor performance of DASH over the last 6 months. Our role is to assess carefully if a proposal for funding is a good use of our funds and to provide constructive criticisms and feedback to the proposal owners. We cannot do this however if we do not get the information from the proposal owners.

Many MNOs are rubber stamping core proposals. This must stop. We have to question and request information on the core proposals just as we would do with any other funding request. Currently, we are not doing this and MNOs are protecting core each time a MNO requests information in core funding proposal. This means the core team proposal owners knows if they sit silently that other MNOs will protect them and they don't need to answer any questions (or very few questions) in order to get the funds they want.

There is a post about this here:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dcg-and-non-core-functions.39457/#post-194227

I have also raised questions to more clearly understand the core team set up and where our funds are being spent exactly however so far there has been no reply to these questions by Glen Austin. The questions were posted on the link above and cross-posted on this link:

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/core-team-compensation-september.39897/#post-194372

If we have more information we can make helpful and useful suggestions. There are approx 4700 Masternodes with a wealth of business experience we can share. Without us having the information we need, however, we cannot contribute our experience or suggestions.

MNOs need to stop jumping in and protecting core every time a MNO asks questions about one of their proposals. This is what is currently happening and this behavior is enabling the core team to avoid providing the information we need to fulfill our roles as MNOs. Which means that more than likely core are not optimally using our funds.

I am pleased to see that Glenn Austin is beginning to respond to questions in his latest funding requests which is encouraging.

Here are two examples of where suggestion made to core where eventually listened to and acted on and have had immediately have created benefits for DASH.

1. Tax Planning: Craig Mason recently shared his frustration that the core team did not respond to his suggestion about contacting the IRS to arrange and payment plan. It took a video recording and many MNOs supporting it for the core team to respond - it took 2 weeks to get that response from Core. In the latest funding request, Glenn Austin actually thanked the MNOs for making that suggestion.

2. Notice posted in all core proposal for all funding requests for that month:
I made a suggestion that core should post at the top of all their proposals a summary of all their funding requests for the month. In this way, if there is another core funding request that is not yet posted, other small community projects would know about it. The problem is that if other small community projects do not know all the core funding proposals that are to be posted in a month they think they have a chance to win some of the remaining funds. However, if the core team drop in another proposal later on in the funding cycle, and there are limited funds, then all the small community projects would get burned out and lose their 5 DASH- which is what happened last month. The only way some projects got through was by de-funding others. This caused a lot of unnecessary damage and loss of funds to small community projects.

However now core have implemented my suggestion and are now putting a few lines of information at the top of their proposals about all their funding requests in a month. This gives other proposal advanced notice of any other core funding requests that have not yet been posted and therefore they can plan accordingly.

The above are just 2 examples of significant improvements that have been made once core actually started listening and responding to our feedback. But it was a heck of a fight even for the core team to listen to these suggestions and it only happened after Craig created a video explaining his frustration on core not responding to information requests or suggestions made by MNOs.

There are many more positive suggestions that can be made but we need Core to provide the information we need to enable MNOs to do this. And in order for the core team to start responding all MNOs need to *stop protecting core*

I have listed just a few of the MNO "core protecting" strategies in my post in this thread:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/dcg-and-non-core-functions.39457/#post-194227

We cannot lay all the blame on the core team for something we are also partly responsible for. As MNOs we need to ask questions of core proposals so we can properly and fully understand them. We have to challenge proposal owners (including core) we need to make positive criticisms and feedback to ensure our money is best spent. If we do not do this we are just as guilty as the core team for DASH falling in the market cap from 4th to 15th place on coinmarketcap. Dash has suffered more than other coins. Lightcoin, bitcoin cash, are still highly ranked. If we are to reverse this we, as MNOs have to accept responsibility for our part in this and start treating core proposals in the same way as we would treat other proposals - in fact since core is taking a great majority of the funds at the moment we should be even more vigilante with the core proposals. If all MNOs started raising more questions in the core proposals, and where not being cut down by other MNOs for doing so, the core team would have to respond to those questions and requests for information.
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2 points,4 months ago
I agree with most of you're post and I respect that you and other are willing to stick you're necks out to voice out unpopular opinions. I too want MNO to stay ever critical and vigilant, and eager to ask the though questions, especially when nobody else as asked them.

However I do want to remark that I disagree with you're comparison with LTC and BCH. That has allot more to do with that both of them are on coinbase and have very powerful connections. Just look at ETC it again proves that this is the case.

It's sad but I think the Trollero's, Charlie Lee, btc-core/blockstreamer are to thank for this. Right now people are starting to finally push back against these Fud-sters, better late than never I would say.

Obviously if Dash would have been able to stick to the roadmap, than we would probably be having a whole different conversation all together, but I follow quit a few other projects, and most of them are having delays. Dash it's inability to have a least some sort of roadmap is still in excusable.

Upcoming Quarterly call a roadmap has been promised, I will certainly put the pressure on if none is delivered again, I expect other especially the MNO to join me in that
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2 points,4 months ago
Ouch, 311 no votes already. That is what happens when you skip the pre-proposal discussion Icey. Will your next three trolling budget proposals have at least a pre-proposal discussion ? or will you go straight to creating the proposals ?

I'm asking because we (the friendly warm open Dash community) could give you some tips and advice in any pre-proposal discussion....
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10 points,4 months ago
Hello iCEHOLE and congratulations on your first proposal!

Please be more accurate in your research. Fernando was made CMO in January of 2018, not 2017. I know it's hard to read a date off a screen correctly when you're red-eyed, rage-filled and butthurt because your Masternodes are worth less than when you bought them during Dash's massive bullrun of 2017, but I'm used to more meticulosity from you.

There are some valid points you raise, but none of them even remotely justify Ryan to be demoted. Neither am I granting you the dignity of any further approval since you're by far the most despicable character to ever besmirch this community.

Your pathological obsession with Dash day in and day out for the last what? 4 years now? All culminated in this magnificent display of butthurt. It's glorious watching you wail and despair in utter defeat. I'll cherish this moment forever, so thank you for that!

More importantly: Thank you for publicly confirming the irrefutable and well-known technological superiority of the Dash cryptocurrency and Evan Duffield's genius by putting several Masternodes worth of your own money into it despite being the most prolific and vicious hater and troll this project has ever seen proving you to be the insurmountable hypocrite that you are.

I'd vote yes just to make fun of you, but a) I have done that over at Bitcointalk for the last couple of years already and given how irrelevant that place has become, I'm done and b) the last thing I need is you psycho DoSing my nodes, so screw that.

Thanks for the entertainment, though! It's always fun watching you fail monumentally.

Reference for those confused: dASHBREAKER@Dash-Forum=iCEBREAKER@Bitcointalk=dashed@Dashcentral=SavingPrivateDash@Dashcentral among many many many other sockpuppets all over Reddit and other places.
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6 points,4 months ago
Another LOL from me. I admit I was wrong about IceHole. He probably isn't a paid troll. You can't pay someone enough for that kind of dedication. There must be a researcher's career worth of psychosis in his head. He has the money to do it forever though I suspect, from all the monero he. Pumped, so I bet he shall be Dash's pet troll until the end of time. Good dog Icy, here's your bone!
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0 points,4 months ago
With all do respect Marcochip, do have any proof he is the same guy ? if so please do tell, so I may be more aware of games this (long since blocked) troll is playing.
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9 points,4 months ago
If by "proof" you mean an audio recording of him saying it, then no. If you mean compelling enough evidence without anyone being able to falsify its validity or provide counter evidence, then yes:

Here he takes ownership of the proposal on the forum:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-demote-ryan-taylor-to-an-advisory-role-and-instruct-hr-to-hire-a-new-ceo.39994/ (Backup: https://archive.is/yEFGV)

Here he is getting sloppy pasting the same content under different usernames: https://i.imgur.com/x77QGMh.png

Here he is having all his sockpuppet accounts on Reddit banned for constant harassment of the community on r/dashpay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg42257192#msg42257192

Here he is hinting at his proposal shortly before he posted it: https://i.imgur.com/wtFcXW9.png

Here he posted the same exact content verbatim on the Dash Forum under the handle "dASHBREAKER", which Tao deleted since then, but Tao can vouch for me that it was there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg42894756#msg42894756 -> Logically: Does that sound the like iCEHOLE we all know and despise? No, he had to clean up his act to get that drivel posted on the Dash Forum and he was too lazy to change it for the Bitcointalk Forum so he just copypasted it there, where he can talk smack to his heart's content because he has no moderation to fear.

iCEBREAKER is the best known troll and hater of Dash who has a pathological condition of calling people "Dashholes" while being a "Dashhole" himself as he has proven to be an MNO via his "dashed" account in here. I recommend you read up on his past behavior that spans back as far as 2014 when it comes to baseless and ridiculous attacks against this community and project: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17501;sa=showPosts

Every Dash veteran I know from 2014/2015 is fully aware of that horrible character and if all that evidence is not compelling enough for you, then I have nothing left to say, other than do your own research. It's all public information.
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3 points,4 months ago
Thank you, I would call that confirmed enough.

Is there any way this information can be put somewhere on a sticky or something I think it's important to do that.
So that I can just block him where ever I find him, because he is wasting time of others.
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5 points,4 months ago
That's a slam dunk right there...

Walter
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6 points,4 months ago
Wow, you are dedicated, I'm impressed, though I never had doubt :)

I stopped reading his drivel years ago for my sanity. But I'm known not to have a high tollerence for such nastiness. Some day when the book is written about Dash, his name will not be mentioned and at most he'll only be able to claim he was 'one of the' trolls, but nobody will remember. Because that is what he wants and I hope it's denied him.
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-5 points,4 months ago
I am not the person posting in the forums. Anyone with any different alias posting anywhere but here is not me.
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5 points,4 months ago
Obviously you're a liar as well, none the less I feel sad for you
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-5 points,4 months ago
This is pure personal attacks and absolute "speculation as fact". There is no clearer evidence of the malign behavior of the Dash community then moderators insulting and doxxing a proposal owner, all while not addressing any of the points made. Ryan has allowed a few unprofessional thugs to completely take over the entire Dash community, and it is yet another reason we need a new CEO.
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0 points,4 months ago
You just get know after a while. Who cares though, it's good entertainment.
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-5 points,4 months ago
Dash's community rules such as not insulting and not "passing speculation as fact rule" only apply to other people, not to themselves.
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3 points,4 months ago
DashCentral is not moderated by the Dash Nation moderation team.
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-7 points,4 months ago
Imagine if this animal Macrochip was part of your moderation team... Oh wait, he is! Thank god you are not in control of dashcentral you down-syndrome-looking hypocrite!
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4 points,4 months ago
This place is not moderated by nor does it offer any mechanism to be moderated from the official mod-team, nor has the proposal ever encompassed DashCentral as a place for moderation or the community rules laid out in the proposal in question. So your hopes of invoking any protective measures against your ludicrous proposal are rightfully denied. Especially due to your repeated and mind blowing display of hypocrisy by attacking Core Team members and passing copious amounts of speculation as fact in your proposal text.

Face it: You're an icon of universal disdain to this community and to quote your own words back to you: That is richly deserved.
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7 points,4 months ago
What a dumb polling of the network.
Easy No

Icey, thank you for your 5 Dash / 999 USD
We appreciate it.
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4 points,4 months ago
Most of the assertions made in this...proposal...are either demonstrably false, dubious, or at least debatable, and all of the relevant ones have already been addressed by others so I won't belabor those. If the proposal owner *really* wants a point by point feedback post as to why I'm voting "No," I'm happy to oblige, but something tells me that's highly unlikely.
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-2 points,4 months ago
There isn't a single reply here that addresses my points. There are whole threads in there that consist of nothing but personal attacks and passing speculation as facts, but they're allowed because they come from members of the moderation team.
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2 points,4 months ago
Is that a request for a point-by-point response or are you just looking for another opportunity to cry foul?
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3 points,4 months ago
As clearly visible in Tao's original proposal DashCentral is not moderated by the official MN-approved mod team ran by Tao nor does it have any posted rules. Why the hell do you think you got away with calling people "delusional dumb fucks" and many other nasty things in here now and in the past? Yourhypocrisy about complaining about "personal attacks" is really amusing.
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2 points,4 months ago
The Dash Nation moderation team does not moderate here, this is an independent website.
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-6 points,4 months ago
Imagine if this animal Macrochip was part of your moderation team... Oh wait, he is! Thank god you are not in control of dashcentral you down-syndrome-looking hypocrite!
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6 points,4 months ago
Voted No. I'm very happy with Ryan and Dash Core Group leadership. With the Dash Core Group Q2 2018 Summary Call taking place this Friday and new road-map to be soon released this is the last thing the Dash network needs.
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-6 points,4 months ago
Are you also happy with the "results" delivered by Fernando and Bradley during their 8 months?
Are you happy with important community projects being defunded?
Are you happy with the salaries of everyone in DCG being at risk if the price drops a few dozen dollars?

List your reasons why I should believe Ryan Taylor will show a roadmap on the next call, and most importantly why I should believe anything it says, since none of the promises made were kept.
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3 points,4 months ago
Why haven't your yes vote(s) appeared yet Mr Proposal Owner?

Walter
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-6 points,4 months ago
Because votes aren't private, and you plus 99% of the people who posted here are focusing on ways to inculpate me instead of what I said.
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2 points,4 months ago
... But you’re anonymous? I’ve certainly never heard of your chosen moniker before, and I’ve been an active community member since May 2014...

Walter
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-5 points,4 months ago
As soon as I vote you'll be able to see the addresses of all the masternodes I own.
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3 points,4 months ago
.. but why should that matter? Nobody knows who you are? Unless you are about to doxx yourself for some mad reason!

I don’t get it.

Walter
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-5 points,4 months ago
99% of the messages here are personal attacks, "passing speculation as fact" and attempts to doxx me. They're done by the same people that are in charge of all the other Dash communities.

I am a masternode owner, have put up a proposal, and made valid, fact-based criticisms of the things I think need to change. Look at the responses I got and ask if this is a healthy community. Even you haven't made a single refutal of my points, and chose to focus on why I don't use my real name, when the reason is clearly obvious and right in front of you.
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3 points,4 months ago
This forum is not moderated by the Dash Nation moderation team.
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-5 points,4 months ago
Imagine if this animal Macrochip was part of your moderation team... Oh wait, he is! Thank god we don't have a hypocrite down-syndrome-looking overlord like you in control of dashcentral too, because you'd keep him as a moderator here just as you do everywhere else! Free speech!
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0 points,4 months ago
Just vote with one of them than
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1 point,4 months ago
Icey, how many times have you watched that movie ? i'm curious ...

Link : https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120815/
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6 points,4 months ago
Easiest no in the history of the Dash DAO.
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4 points,4 months ago
Seconded.
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4 points,4 months ago
Thirded.
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4 points,4 months ago
Fourthed
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4 points,4 months ago
Fifthed
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6 points,4 months ago
Sixthed
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5 points,4 months ago
Seventhed
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4 points,4 months ago
Eighth
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6 points,4 months ago
Look at all these Evan sockpuppets! All these green MNO badges all over this proposal sure are fake. Everybody knows Dash is centrally controlled by a single entity and there are no MNOs other than Evan and his inner circle! Hurr durr! /s

Wasn't that your narrative for 4+ years iCEHOLE? What are you doing here?
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1 point,4 months ago
Ya, that centralized narrative the trolls push irritates me. I'm a construction worker who found Dash after learning about Bitcoin mining from a coworker. I took a large sum of my savings and bought into a masternode awhile back. There a loads of people just like me, from all over the world.
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4 points,4 months ago
Evan once came to my dreams and told me to buy Dash...than I sleepwalked, got to my computer and bought some Dash to establish a MN. He still gives me orders while sleeping to vote on his behalf
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4 points,4 months ago
You're not alone. That dude is evil. Evan scammed me into wealth against my will :(
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5 points,4 months ago
I'm just a yes-girl-cheerleader, but what the hell....9th'd
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4 points,4 months ago
zenter
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1 point,4 months ago
11th'd
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-5 points,4 months ago
I expected nothing else from so called "Dash community". Personal insults, "passing speculation as fact", "follow the leader fourthed, fifth, sixth echochamber" etc.

All the discipline you use to judge and punish users for violation of community's standard when it's time to apply it to one of your own.
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3 points,4 months ago
Dash Central is not moderated by the Dash Nation moderation team.
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-7 points,4 months ago
Imagine if this animal Macrochip was part of your moderation team... Oh wait, he is! Thank god you are not in control of dashcentral you autistic-looking fuck
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-11 points,4 months ago
Easiest YES, I'm fucking tired of never seeing any progress in Dash. Shitcoins with 1/100th of the budget deliver 10x more than this team
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10 points,4 months ago
Hang on right there.

Aren't you the same person that submitted this very proposal?

Who are you trying to fool here?

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you are blatantly attempting to deceive the DAO while hiding behind multiple sock puppet identities?

dashed@Dashcentral
SavingPrivateDash@Dashcentral
dASHBREAKER@DashForum
iCEBREAKER@Bitcointalk
and many more...

All you've done in the past is attempt to derail multiple proposals and cause disruptions.

It is also well known from your posts as iCEBREAKER that you are a huge Monero fan.

With all that considered, what are you actually trying to achieve here?

Don't bother wasting our time.
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-15 points,4 months ago
I don't give a shit if you take me seriously or not and I only speak for myself. Fuck you and your delusions you dumb fuck
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7 points,4 months ago
"fuck you and your delusions you dumb fuck" - that was a very clever answer. Let me give you some advice. Time is a precious gift we have here on planet earth and you are clearly wasting yours. One day you will regret that you spend most of this precious gift with hate and unmeaningful things. But it is not too late..Get some help you poor disturbed soul!
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5 points,4 months ago
lol!
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4 points,4 months ago
I'm actually almost on the verge of tears. It is a horrible way to go through life. I actually feel sorry for him now. That outburst says a lot.
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1 point,4 months ago
I wonder what kind of lonely life this person must be living. Most likely an addict and suffering from anxiety/compulsive disorders.
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3 points,4 months ago
Wow, doing drugs now?
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2 points,4 months ago
I sense a little drama-queen in this one
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4 points,4 months ago
I'm not voting yes for this proposal because it is only addressing a symptom not the actual problem.

I believe the problem is that DCG is centralizing many of the functions and services that should be independently provided and the funding bias just makes it worse. We all know that the Olgilvy proposals only passed because Ryan was proposal owner. Their proposals were terribly overpriced and ultimately a waste of funding. And why are we paying taxes for DCG? Those costs should have been integrated into the original proposals so we knew the true cost.

Note that I'm not saying that DCG is any worse that any other centralized agency. I'm just frustrated with most centralized/bureaucratic agencies in general and when I see centralization issues with DASH, I get frustrated and want to vent.

So far, I like Ryan and the other executives he has hired to help out, but I don't believe the bureaucratic structure that is evolving at DCG is what's best for DASH.
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-7 points,4 months ago
Thank you for being part of the 1% contributing to the discussion. Yes I agree, it would be way better to have each department as its own entity asking for funds, instead of all being centralized under Ryan. Especially under Ryan.
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2 points,4 months ago
I have no complaints about Ryan or the Core Group and believe they are doing a good job.
However there are fragments in each of the proposal owner's points above that get you thinking......
It is important that DCG delivers in a significant manner before the end of the year, otherwise MNO will feel 'let down' and proposals such as these may gain traction.
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0 points,4 months ago
Not really, I am not expecting to get Evolution before 2019. version 12.4, a properroad map, lot more adoption in Venezuelan and I am happy.
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4 points,4 months ago
Why haven't your yes vote(s) appeared yet Mr Proposal Owner?

Walter
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-7 points,4 months ago
Because votes aren't private
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4 points,4 months ago
... But you’re anonymous? I’ve certainly never heard of your chosen moniker before, and I’ve been an active community member since May 2014...
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-4 points,4 months ago
fuck it, what are they gonna do to you?
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4 points,4 months ago
Sometimes when things don't go exactly your way you try to find someone to blame. Blaming Ryan for all of Dash's problems is a cheap shot that's not that cheap for you. It's obvious to see evolution is late but there is nothing that Ryan could have done differently. In terms of dev and technology, we have ways to greatly increase our block size (we already could manage 32x Bitcoin without breaking a sweat), and we have quite a lot done for evolution (BLS sigs/Deterministic MN List/Special Transactions/Proof of service/Evolution itself), so you either are completely misinformed or just are here to troll. One more thing: There is a sense of urgency in Dash core, but you can only work so many hours per week. I would say more than 80% of full time devs are working more than 40 hours a week: We will deliver.
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-6 points,4 months ago
Thank you for being the only person that tried to add to the discussion. I have listed 5 main reason to demote him, you only addressed one, and these were not what we were promised (BLS sigs/Deterministic MN List/Special Transactions/Proof of service).

Decentralization does not mean lack of accountability. Are you suggesting I should propose firing individuals developers, Fernando, and Bradley, instead of addressing whoever is leading the company?
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4 points,4 months ago
Well actually when Evolution was promised Evan didn't have a clear understanding of what exactly would be needed. Those technologies above are essential, and more will come. We aren't making them just for the sake of delaying the project, we are making them because they are the project.

Look I have an idea, you obviously care about Dash a lot, instead of bashing other people who also deeply care, maybe find a more positive way to contribute?
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-7 points,4 months ago
1. You still haven't addressed the other 6 reasons to demote him.

2. Sorry but 3 years is enough time to have a "clear understanding of what exactly would be needed".

3. Reasonable criticism is a form of contribution, and I have stated my reasons. If you can't take it, just stop replying.
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4 points,4 months ago
LOL
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2 points,4 months ago
"Um... wow" - one of my best friends when signaling me about this proposal.

I thought it best to think a bit about what I might contribute here.

I can't claim to know if the 7 or so points raised by SavingPrivateDash are entirely accurate or not. Honestly, I have a day job and I can't verify all that's been said on either side. You might be asking "then why the hell are you sounding off on this anyway?" Good question, please allow me to answer here:

I hope Ryan Taylor reads this post because I have a complement sandwich to deliver :)

Good stuff first:

Last fall, at Money 20/20, Tony Gallippi (BitPay Founder) reached out to me and asked me if I had any questions for Ryan because he and Stephen Pair (BitPay CEO) were just about to meet with him. The next Monday, Stephen Pair came bursting into the developer's workspace (I was a developer at BitPay at the time) and was GUSHING about Dash and Ryan Taylor. He expressed his deep admiration regarding how Dash chooses masternodes for instant send and some other properties of Dash. It was clear that Ryan had blown his hair back in this presentation. Even now, BitPay has Dash high on its list of viable coins to accept. The most thing to note here is that Stephen Pair is notoriously prickly when it comes to "alt coins". He once told me that accepting Litecoin was "the dumbest idea he'd ever heard" in front of the whole company. I suggested BitPay start accepting Litecoin because everyone at the company knows what a fan of Dash I am and suggesting Dash would be too obvious. I digress, the point is that I was actively marketing Dash at BitPay for YEARS. It took Ryan's skill and finesse to get the job done. Yes, I realize Dash isn't yet accepted at BitPay, but give it some time. It took the company almost a year to start accepting Bitcoin Cash. This is what a good CEO does; he makes impressions like this.

Bad Stuff:

Evolution development should NOT be done in secret. Yes, I know this isn't expressly Ryan's fault, but he's the captain of this ship and the buck stops with him. And Yes, I know the reasons why Evolution is being developed in secret, so please spare me the explanations (although I appreciate the conversation). Developing software in secret is never a good look especially when you have Dash-haters out there just looking for anything to bash over the head with. Its bad enough that we have to battle the stupid insta-mine issue and "all masternodes belong to one guy" issue. Good software can and should be a free and open collaboration with the community. Dash's ideas have and will continue to be copied, but this is feature not a bug. With Evolution's progress being a bit murky, this does not help the arguments against the removal of Ryan as CEO. We, the investors, have to take the word of the leadership team. We can't find out for ourselves. I am NOT accusing anyone of anything here, I am just stating the obvious. We all got into cryptocurrency so that we could cut the bullshit and verify things for ourselves.

Overall:

I don't know if Ryan ought to go. I haven't made up my mind yet. I am leaning towards voting no (he should stay) . Every time I hear him speak or communicate with the public I think, "this guy is a good ambassador for Dash" and "he's doing something NO ONE has ever done before". I couldn't do it! I think the 85% drop since ATH is not really Ryan's fault. How can it be when most other coins had somewhat similar drops. I am, however, pissed that other coins have leap-frogged us in total market cap (especially Stellar, EOS and Litecoin). Compared to Dash, those coins are garbage. We need to be better, do better. If we can't, why can't we?
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4 points,4 months ago
In regards to the private development of Evolution, this was due to the fact that they sought a defensive patent for the development. If it was open-source from the get-go, it could have been copied and patent-trolled against them. As to why the distro wasn't opened once the patent was filed, I can only speculate, but I believe that was the reasoning articulated to us, it wasn't done arbitrarily.
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-5 points,4 months ago
This is the narrative you have been fed. Patents have never been seen and that excuse was valid almost 7 months ago, not anymore.
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-8 points,4 months ago
Complete crap this is just another excuse. The patents that no one has seen were filled months ago you guys are too fucking gullible and swallow every excuse they toss.
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1 point,4 months ago
+1
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2 points,4 months ago
That was an expensive hissy-fit.
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-3 points,4 months ago
Now I have to wait 36 hours to be paid another 5 DASH, how will I survive?
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1 point,4 months ago
depends, do you have any survival training ?
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0 points,4 months ago
Fellow Dashers and SavingPrivateDash -

Thought I’d pitch in to this here (Max Yoga).
@proposal owner, thank you for initiating this debate.

I am utterly appalled at the behaviour and attitude of Dash community members against the poster of this proposal, no matter how ‘aggressive’ you see his stance.

Everything from ‘shoot the messenger’ through to ‘lynchmob’ and right down to the lowest of the low, an attempt to ‘doxx’ the proposal owner as someone else in a paranoid fit, providing barely circumstantial evidence as to his/her identity. The proposal poster fears (@arthyron - rightly, it seems which is likely why he doesn’t put his handle up) the severe backlash from the community.

Shame.

This is NOT the way to show your support for Ryan, but it IS a showcase of how there is little room for ‘dissent’ in the Dash community when difficult yet important questions are asked by investors and supporters involved in Dash. You think you are all showing you are free thinkers by bandying together in this way? Think again.

Instead of actually responding in debate, to what are seemingly well articulated points, not entirely without merit, many community members have immediately fallen into a shameful ‘follow the leader’ ‘fourthed, fifth, sixth etc’ echochamber and responding with trite platitudes while avoiding point-by-point engagement against someone who appears to be a multiple MNO with legitimate concerns, that has put $1000/ 5 Dash where his mouth is.

C’mon guys we can do better than that. And @dashed please try to cut the swearing, all it does is aggravate.

Thanks,
Drako
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2 points,4 months ago
I don't believe there's anything to fear here. There's just simply no reason to trust or value the opinion of someone who--by their own admission--doesn't participate in or make positive contributions to the community who then suddenly shows up out of nowhere making volatile, controversial demands. Of course all information or assertions can be judged on their own merits and in their own light--which I've offered to do--but suffice it to say if you're going to have a meaningful effect on a community, you have to actually be a part of that community. Someone who is not part of the community, who doesn't make positive contributions, who is not in the trenches day to day is not in any position to ascertain what is best for the network, let alone to have gained the trust and clout to inspire others toward what is best for the network.

Demanding a community member maintain a consistent, persistent identity instead of hiding behind sockpuppets is not "doxxing." If they were to try to find this person's home address or other personal details, that's doxxing. Asking someone to not use anonymity as a tool for manipulation and to participate openly and in good faith is not abusive.

I don't know if the OP has any connection to bad actors that have been previously identified in the community, but what I do know is that someone who goes out of their way to distance themselves from a community and malign the community itself will never hold much clout in it, no matter how wealthy they are.

What incentive does anyone who regularly and actively participates in the greater DAO have to even pay attention to someone behaving this way?
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2 points,4 months ago
This comment right here wins the entire thread.

These people want to have it both ways, externalizing themselves from the community yet deeply criticizing it and lash out if they are denied having their way with us for obvious reasons.

It's pure hypocrisy, cowardice and malice attacking Dash from an anonymous position and demand irrational changes most likely caused by dissatisfaction with their personal profit situation.

The resounding "NO" we are giving here through our votes is an epic rejection of a bad actor and a strong reaffirmation of the health and sanity of this network and project.

So thanks for wasting 5 Dash to give us this opportunity. And the future opportunities you've already announced.
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6 points,4 months ago
Its hard to take this proposal and the proposal owner serious when that same proposal owner has been trolling the Dash community non-stop for 4 years. So yes, most of the Dash community that knows iCEBREAKER / SavingPrivateDash from either the bitcointalk forum or the dash.org forum treat this proposal as pure entertainment. Nothing more, nothing less.
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4 points,4 months ago
With all do respect for this post, there are other ways to go about this, I would say a pre-proposal or a discussion on dash-discord would seem prudent before investing 5 dash. I myself have my doubts as well, and something wonder what is the best course of action.

Politically speaking I have to following to say:
Max Yoga, the way you're approaching this sounds allot like the way bitcart.io (the site is completely down, not even message from them) attacked core when things where not going there way. Just like in that case the blame is not on them but on you, shifting the blame reflects where poorly or you. If in fact you're view has no secondary motivates than, I am sorry but this just poor timing by making a stance on this, if KuvaCash was up and running than yes, you're post here would have whole different meaning or if you had made proper short and to the point demo video's and picture's and video's displaying you're licences than would be similar view.
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-3 points,4 months ago
Hi A_node_to_a_master,

I’m not sure what to say. Your second part of the post is incoherent to say the least and appears to be trying to mix concerns? Does this invalidate what I’m saying here or are you attempting to shoot/marginalise the messenger precisely in the way I’ve described? In that case, thanks for making my point better than I could myself make it.

I suggest you pretend that someone else posted lemonysnickets comment and try to look at it objectively.

Thanks,
Drako
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0 points,4 months ago
I have to say, I am bit shocked that you don't get what I am saying. I take a similar stance on proposals just as Dash core group, in particular Ryan Taylor: he is saying we should avoid getting involved in other proposals.

In this very case, you're in a bit of hot water because MNO'ers want that you show them a lot more of you're project that is ready for a pre-pilot. I have also seen that you're not to happy Dash Core Group is asking so much funds this cycle, which future endangers you're changes of getting funded.

I mean you no disrespect but you also much understand that MNO have been (Charlie) Chremed multiple times now.
Demanding, as much proof as possible. If indeed you have that proof, than this negatively around you will all go away.

I would also like to note if indeed you are working very hard on KuvaCash, it must be very frustrating than MNO'er are not supporting you allot more , but MNO'ers can not avoid that or else open up the door for never ending scams.
I sincerely hope that you understand the point that I am addressing here.
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-2 points,4 months ago
Drako, passing speculation as evidence, insulting, doxing, these are all allowed as long as you're on their team. The same people asking me to only be positive and only put up constructive criticisms are no where to be seen when other known members break every single conceivable community rule.
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1 point,4 months ago
"Edit 1: If this proposal does not pass in this cycle, I will still submit two other ones on the next: one to fire Fernando and another to fire Bradley. Also on 2019 Jan 01, I will submit this exact same proposal again (Demoting Ryan Taylor). Let's see how many of you change your mind after realizing Evolution was not delivered, and deadlines from the roadmap were missed yet again. "

Thank you for the entertainment, I certainly feel entertained.

Also i'm looking forward to downvoting any and all additional proposals coming from your SavingPrivateDash account or any other account you make.
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1 point,4 months ago
This was almost worth the five Dash for the entertainment value. While there are things that Core could do better (and they are making meaningful efforts), replacing Ryan Taylor is not one of those things.
solarguy
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1 point,4 months ago
Although I'm relatively positive this proposal will not pass and am voting no myself, I would like all other MNO's to consider a few things before voting.

1. Replacing a CEO is not easy and is almost guaranteed to delay Evolution further.

2. Ryan has valuable experience from his time in finance and this experience will be difficult to find in any potential replacements. We do not want a leader that only understands the crypto sphere. We need someone that used to be on the inside in the legacy financial world as this is the exact industry crypto is trying to disrupt.

3. Ryan and DCG have done a fine job explaining why there have been delays and have addressed most of the concerns expressed in this proposal.

4. The new legal structure that Ryan released details on just last week is impressive and I do not expect this was easy to setup. Before any changes are made regarding leadership, we should at least wait until board members are elected for the Dash Trust.

5. Evan Duffield had confidence in Ryan and knew him better than any of us have. Before any change in leadership is made, I would at least like Evan to chime in.

6. @SavingPrivateDash - To avoid any accusations this is an expensive concern troll attempt, can you provide proof you are a MNO yourself and have a vested interest in the future of Dash? I am very hesitant to believe the motivations of a proposal like this unless it comes from a MNO.
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2 points,4 months ago
Let him try, he spending 5 dash only to proof us stronger
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-5 points,4 months ago
1. So be it.
2. That's why I am not proposing to fire him.
3. Not in my view.
5. Evan Duffield has abandoned the project. He is a for Dash what Satoshi Nakamoto is for Bitcoin. There is no reason to believe he is doing anything for Dash.
6. I am a masternode owner and I expected nothing else from 99% of the people here who accuse me of trolling. Thank you for being the 1%.
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3 points,4 months ago
6. So where's your tag? What's your usual username(s). Why don't you stand behind your opinions and assertions and name instead of hiding behind a sock?
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-2 points,4 months ago
Are you not paying attention? I have offered valid and fact-based criticisms but have been met with nothing but personal attacks (passing speculation as fact, insults, threats, doxing), from the very members that control and moderate all the Dash communities.
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-4 points,4 months ago
trying to reason with these people is a waste of time. They're brainwashed and are only trying to sound smart. Notice how he got really quiet once you called him out
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1 point,4 months ago
Lol, you're even talking to yourself, really you need help, I sorry I laughed at you, I still feel for you bro, you're life must be so depressing.
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-1 point,4 months ago
No.
But:
1) Agreed with 5 and 6. Marketing (especially) and BD (lesser) need to be very well shaken.
2) If there will be no 14.0 this year - that will be the time to have DEEEEEEP concerns.

p.s. No rudeness, guys, please. We all have the same interests.
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0 points,4 months ago
LOL. Really? XD
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-6 points,4 months ago
Fuck yes, let's shake things up
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4 points,4 months ago
I believe you have no idea of what you are doing or talking about.
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-2 points,4 months ago
I believe you're not part of the convo, come back once you have a masternode
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2 points,4 months ago
You believe wrong because I am. I'm a MNO (several) and at least I voted NO for you bad proposal.

If you are not happy with Dash, I can buy you MNO.
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