Proposal “dash-retail-4“ (Closed)Back

Title:Dash Retail: Merchant Platform, Hardware POS, In-store Exchange & Dash Payment Cards
Owner:AshFrancis
Monthly amount: 190 DASH (12913 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (4 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2020-03-15 / 2020-07-12 (added on 2020-03-13)
Votes: 803 Yes / 214 No / 40 Abstain
External information: app.dashnexus.org/proposals/dash-retail-4/overview

Proposal description

Dash Retail is Now Live: https://app.dashretail.org

New Video Update (24th March - 1 min 44 seconds)


Major Updates:

Dash Retail 1.0 Launched
We've now launched the first version of Dash Retail, whilst we expect some minor bug fixes this is a major release and you are welcome to test it yourself, so far we've had amazing feedback and support and local teams are keen to get it deployed in our merchants.
  • Fiat payouts via Uphold
  • Split payouts (e.g: 50% to wallet, 50% to USD in Uphold) 
  • Hardware POS Devices (Android payment terminals with receipt printing, nfc, etc.)
  • Software POS Devices (Android/Apple phones, Laptops, etc.)
  • Tap Payments (see below)
  • In-store Dash Exchange (see below)
Tap Card Payment [beta]
Tap to pay (NFC) is the best point of sale payment flow there is at the moment, it's fast, easy and convenient. Your grandma might not operate a crypto wallet on a smart phone but she can definitely tap a piece of plastic. With over a billion adults unbanked in the world, a Dash Payment Card is the most accessible way to get them banked and able to make POS purchases, pay for public transit and more. We're currently investigating ways to make this completely trustless and non-custodial (more on that soon!). 

In-store Dash Purchase [beta]
Turning any merchant into a Dash ATM will make Dash much more accessible, powered by our local agents this provides a solution to the chicken and egg problem - Dash users can acquire and spend Dash at the same location with ease. 


https://ashfrancis.com/pos1.gif

Partnerships

Dash Core Group
We're working with the business development arm of Dash Core Group to improve Dash merchant adoption with the use of Dash Retail, we'll be sending out physical devices to Ernesto and Omar at DCG to deploy to merchants and use to demonstrate the benefits Dash brings.

Dash Help + Support
We're working with Dash Help to integrate their support directly in Dash Retail, we're also working with them on improving Dash Retail to better meet their needs, they have already provided invaluable feedback on how the system works. We are posting out physical POS devices and NFC cards to this team.

Dash Text
Dash Text is fully integrated into Dash Retail and we'll be working closer with this team and their on-going developments

Dash Impulse
Dash Impulse are testing out Dash Retail and have provided a significant amount of feedback, they will be continuing to test Dash Retail and we look forward to working with them on getting Dash Retail deployed in the field.

Other Teams
Dash Retail is live now, please feel free to use it and provide feedback, if you would like the Android APK for NFC and your account to be enabled for beta functionality (exchange, store cards, etc) please send me a message.

https://ashfrancis.com/nfc6.gif


More Info

Dash Retail Features
  • Easy onboarding for new Dash Merchants
  • Full separation of merchants from clerks (clerks have no access to the merchants Dash or transaction history) 
  • Full transparent reporting to Dash Watch via backend read-only access
  • Split payouts (including support for fiat payout via Uphold)
  • Easy set-up of hardware devices, android or iOS phones or computers
  • Comprehensive pricing system that now powers the fiat prices in Dash wallets (Android, iOS, etc.)
  • Full adoption agent system for merchant sign up and support
  • Support for text based payment (Dash Text, Cointigo)
  • Dedicated hardware options (single screen POS as demoed above, and two screen devices previously demoed)
  • Full payment tracking and reporting + CSV export
  • Full localization with more language improvements coming soon
  • Security features to protect merchants including 2FA
  • Android application and soon iOS application [BETA]
  • NFC Payments [BETA]
  • In-store purchase and sale of Dash [BETA]

Advantages for Merchants
  • Separates Clerk role from Merchant role (scales to businesses where owner isn't in store)
  • Owner doesn't have to entrust device/wallet to Clerk as POS holds no funds
  • Ability to sell Dash to, or buy Dash from their customers (new revenue opportunity)
  • Ability to sell Dash NFC cards to their customers (new revenue opportunity)
  • Can add auto-converting address to enable fiat off-ramping (instant volatility offset)
  • Can specify a percentage of how much Dash they wish to keep and how much to convert
  • Dedicated hardware with receipt printing, etc.
  • Direct line of support with local adoption team
  • Set-up for them by local teams, much smaller learning curve
  • Accounting is far easier with full CSV exports, invoice numbers, etc
  • Scales to hundreds of stores with thousands of clerks with ease
  • Accept Dash Text, Cointigo, NFC Cards and any Dash Wallet
  • Extensible to web checkout, vending machines, transit, etc.
  • Easy to use for Clerks with great UX

Advantages for Adoption Teams
  • Full transparent metrics reported to the DAO
  • Direct line of support to merchant
  • No issues with business owner walking away with device
  • Smaller education requirement
  • Easier sell to merchant
  • Allows easy tracking, error reporting, etc
  • Full technical and modification support from Dash Retail team
  • Bulletproof reliability
  • Easy merchant set-up flow
  • Excellent branding, easy UX

https://i.imgur.com/jdTVFbN.jpg

Upcoming Work
The majority of our focus will be on refining the main Dash Retail application based on our work with the local teams, this includes UX and flow improvements, new requested features, better structures for merchant:agent relationship (pass reset, exchange settlement, etc) and any other feedback they have, to make the system best accommodate the agents and their merchants needs.

Alongside this, we will be:
  • Ordering and distributing hardware devices + NFC cards 
  • Improving + releasing our Android and iOS Apps 
  • Releasing Beta features into active use 
  • Supporting deployment of Dash Retail into merchants in Venezuela 
  • Working with Dash translators to accurately translate Dash Retail into their languages
  • Investigating deploying apps on Clover POS + Verifone POS Hardware 
  • Investigating Dash Retail integration with Dash Platform (username based payments etc)
  • Investigating dedicated linux based hardware for cheaper bulk costs, improved security, better NFC, etc.  

Team and Roles
Ash Francis + Alex Cox. Alex is our technical lead with 10 years development experience and Ash provides design, front-end development and project management. As Dash investors we are working at a reduced salary to return the greatest benefit and ROI to Dash whilst also building a codebase that our other projects can benefit from alongside Dash (likewise, assets and work from these other projects is being brought into Dash Retail).

Transparency
All of our accounting records and website statistics are accessible to Dash Watch and able to be audited at any point, these records are recorded down to transaction level.

Ownership
We have sent Dash Core Group $1,500 to cover the necessary costs for their intellectual property lawyers to review and finalize a license for Dash Retail, this license will give the DAO full control of Dash Retail forever, with the ability to sublicense (it is irrevocable and perpetual and allows commercial use).

Budget
This budget should cover our reduced salaries at $3,600 a month as well as our office rent, infrastructure and other costs. We are currently at a negative balance based on historical costs and hope to be able to partially pay some of these costs back. Our budget is based on a 7-day SMA of $72, we are hopeful that Dash will recover from it's current lows. In the eventuality that Dash doesn't recover, we will further reduce our costs, though we may have to reduce hours allocated to Dash Retail and work freelance to ensure we can afford our living costs. It's worth noting that while we have put $3,600 in the budget most months, our average salary works out far less with many months unpaid, or partially paid from Ash's savings (having to sell his singular MN to do so). We will always endeavour to respect the treasury and be as efficient with funds awarded as possible.

Get In Touch
We are happy to answer any questions either on this proposal or you can reach out directly on the details below.

Email: ash@ashfrancis.com
Telegram: @ashfrancis
Twitter: @ashtonfrancis
Discord: Ash#8776
Skype: ash.francis

Thank you for your support.

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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-1 point,3 months ago
Hi Ash. Can you tell us how many merchants are currently using app.dashretail.org?
Reply
2 points,3 months ago
There are about 40 registered merchants. Whilst the local teams have received it well, COVID-19 slowed down deployment. All teams will soon be receiving hardware devices and along with that more organic adoption with use of existing devices (phones, tablets, laptops, browsers on existing POS hardware) should occur. We're also talking to various upstream providers around partnerships to enable deployment to large groups of merchants or across multi-store merchants.
Reply
-2 points,3 months ago
Is it safe to say that there are zero merchants USING app.dashretail.org to accept payments at this time? You should be able to tell by the activity in the database and server logs.
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
Hi Ash I posted some comments on Signal regarding Dash Retail but I did not receive a reply. I'll post the Signal comments below:


Hi Ash, is there any formal training video series on how to use Dash Retail - like a step by step guide?
Apr 25 10:31am
Does Dash Retail cost the merchant anything e.g. in commissions or payment upfront to open an account or are there any other charges for the service?
Apr 25 10:33am
Do you have a demo account for people to use to learn how to use the service?
Apr 25 10:33am
What is the domain name for Dash Retail?
Apr 25 10:34am
Are you aware of this website: https://dashretail.eu/ that has your name?
Apr 25 10:35am

I have never used Dash Retail online web service. I think that if people are to use it they will need step by step training on what it is and how to use it with a training video. Could you send me the link if you have such a video? I've seen your demos for your funding but I'm referring to a video specifically tailored for training retail customers.

In addition to the above comments I made here are a few more that I feel ought to be covered in the training video:

How can a retail customer know for certain they can trust your service? How much of your service is centralised and how much is decentralised?

I think that DASH Help Support Centre should create a series of instructional training videos on the Dash Retail service and show, step by step in an instructional way how it can be used (and trusted) by retail customers to process their payments. I am not aware of any training other than your promotional videos to obtain funding.

Once the training material is available I think that the Dash News Room should do a piece on it to let the world know this service exists and is operational.
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
Hi DeepBlue,

Sorry for not getting back to you, we've been very busy and that message came in at 1:30 am my time I believe (not an excuse, just by way of explanation).

So, onto questions:

1) Is there a formal training video series on how to use Dash Retail.
I am working on this at the moment, we're also partnered with Dash Help who will do more localized tutorials to serve the larger Spanish speaking segment.

2) Do you have a demo account for people to learn how to use the service.
We could set-up a self-destructing demo account but this would take quite a while, I would rather focus on our on-going development and improve the onboarding UX. I've put this task in Jira as a future consideration.

3) What is the domain name for Dash Retail
dashretail.org with the web application residing on app.dashretail.org - a top-level site on the main domain will be launching soon (with a landing page and some documentation)

4) Are you aware of dashretail.eu
Yep, operating as an Amazon sales consultant, so somewhat different.

5) Videos on how much of your service is centralised / decentralised.
From our research and partners experience, and to speak frankly, no merchants seem to care about this. Yes they care about knowing their funds are safe, but we don't hold funds so this is of little concern. I'm happy to document this for those merchants that do care and for the wider community (and I have gone into some detail on this in the past, but it would be good to gather this all in one place).

There's a dynamic that we're approaching right now around deployment/development of Dash Retail, it's more likely that local partners (which there are now 7 of) will carry out the bulk of the deployment and marketing specific to their geographies, allowing us to focus on development. However it's also important that any merchant, anywhere, is able to directly use Dash Retail without a partner, so there is a certain amount of business support that we will also do, unless another organization takes that work on.

I agree it's important we market this directly as a solution too, we're currently working on our apps and finalizing physical devices which has taken longer than hoped due to various complications (this message is already getting long but I can go into detail, although that detail is quite boring!) once we have the android + ios apps published and are happy with them, as well as an ordering page for physical devices, we can up the momentum on marketing the solution directly (in tandem with the local partner based marketing).
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
@AshFrancis thanks for your feedback. I posted the questions in April that is why I sent a follow up. It seems you only got the follow up recently however.

You mentioned in this proposal that Dash Retail is live however if merchants don't know it exists or how to use it then we will we not be loosing a valuable opportunity to showcase Dash's many quality services such as yours? A training video using screencapture software would not take that long to put together. I don't think Dash Retail should be sidetracked making the training videos however. I think this would best be done by Dash Help but with your support.

In addition you mentioned previously you wanted feedback from merchants in the field so that you can improve the Dash Retail service. In order for more merchants to start using your service however, they need training and an introduction to it. They are unlikely to work through it on their own. I say this because I, myself, tend to prefer services where the training is readily available. If no training materials are available I look to find other services that offer the training because it saves me so much time working out how to use the service on our own.

Once the training videos for merchants exist it would also provide a valuable means for new merchants to get started. The videos would also assist in other marketing projects for DASH because links to these videos could be used in other marketing messages to demonstrate a valuable Dash service for merchants.

I would challenge you on your point that "merchants don't care" about the security of the Dash Retail service for payments with their company. If I was to consider Dash retail for my business I would want to know for sure my funds were safe. I would not trust a startup on its own. All it would take is some explanation in the training videos on why merchants can feel secure in using the Dash Retail service. I would agree with your point that Decentralization is not that important for a merchant per say, what is important however is that a merchant would know for a fact their funds will be secure when using the Dash Retail service bearing in mind it is a start up?
Reply
2 points,3 months ago
Just to clarify:
- We're already creating those training videos.
- I didn't say merchants don't care about security, I said they don't care about decentralization but DO care about security and we'll create materials to educate them on the security of their funds.
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
How do updates and new features you're working on get incorporated into the license agreement? Is DCG simply licensing what's on app.dashretail.com? There is not much functionality there.

Can we see a copy of the actual agreement? You can redact the signatures and any actual code. I would like to know the names of all the signatories however.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
All new features are included as well as git access to all our code, I posted the license below: https://ashfrancis.com/drlicense.pdf

There is also a ton of features in Dash Retail and a very extensive codebase, stop making false statements.
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
### Attention MNO ###

If you take notice the DR license agreement is flawed and invalid therefore null and void.

DCG lawyers clearly operate at reduced rates where they will rubber stamp anything, without any corporate KYC!

If you look at the agreement it states astound group ltd a company registered in Canada which is factually incorrect. Its registered in the UK check the companies house register. Here :

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11348410

Knowingly signing a legal document, with factually incorrect information? Or did ash suddenly forget his company was registered in UK?

Any MNO question the capability of dcg lawyers and or the POs who suddenly forget such things when claiming it was their top priority to ensure everything was done right?
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
We're also registered in Canada...
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0 points,5 months ago
https://i.imgur.com/jIagV4Q.jpg
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0 points,5 months ago
What you have their is an extra provincial registration which does not act as a "registration" its a registry that merely records whos doing business within the province. Its clearly stipulated on their website.

And it still is not "Canada" to use the terms registered in Canada you must have a Federal Corporation, not a provincial.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Now you're doubling down when I show we are registered in Canada (yes, specifically in BC as an extra-provincial).

I will go back to our lawyers and check on this to make absolutely sure, in the DAOs best interest, if necessary updating the contract.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
From our BC based corporate lawyer:

'Unless this is a material issue in the sense the other party would not have signed if they knew you were registered in BC this will in no way invalidate the contract'

I can ask DCG to ask their lawyers the same if anyone else wants.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Thank you for rapidly following through and definitively shutting down this speculative line of reasoning. Its a testament to your commitment to the network that you continue to respond and deal with these transparent attacks for our benefit.
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-1 point,5 months ago
Quite the contrary its to ensure dao gets a solid contract without anyway for the licensor to weasel out of it!
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3 points,5 months ago
I think it's a good idea to look it over and ask questions, but I think we need to refrain from going into armchair lawyer territory. DCG's legal team was paid to work on this - we were not. They might even be working at reduced rates, but it is still more than you or I were paid for our "professional" legal consultation.
Going with "They will rubber stamp anything" is not a reasonable assumption in my view, especially not when compared to MNOs of all people.
Reply
3 points,5 months ago
Hi Ash,
Crossposting from Discord, since I think there should be visibility about this in the proposal comments here.

As per your update in Discord, the legal paperwork for the license agreement with DCG has been completed and signed (thank you to both parties for following through on this!). Could you let us know if this license agreement can be made public, or if not, what information if any can be revealed about it? There are many different kinds of licenses, so only knowing that a license agreement exists is not really enough information for MNOs to evaluate if they think it is adequate for its intended purpose.

Thanks -
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Hi Troy,

Good idea, shared here: https://ashfrancis.com/drlicense.pdf

I've put the paragraph concerning the license below:

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Licensor [Ash and Alex] hereby grants to Licensee [Dash Core Group] an irrevocable, perpetual, fully paid-up, royalty-free, sublicensable, non-exclusive license to
use, sublicense, modify, improve, and reuse the Dash Retail Intellectual Property for any purpose or reason
throughout the universe. The granting of sublicenses by Licensee shall be at Licensee’ s sole and exclusive
discretion and Licensee shall have the sole and exclusive power to determine the identity of any sublicensee,
the applicable licensee fees or royalty rates, if any, and other terms and conditions of the sublicense. Any and
all intellectual property rights related to any modification or improvement by or through Licensee or it
sublicenses shall be exclusively owned by Licensee or the applicable sublicensee, subject to Licensor’ s
ownership rights to the underlying Dash Retail Intellectual Property."
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Thank you! I think this has set a really good precedent. Entering into contracts or license agreements with one of our DAO entities is absolutely a viable option for POs and it helps align our incentives. I hope this will be a win-win for everybody.
Reply
-3 points,5 months ago
Last cycle we funded this project to the tune of $15,000. I would like to respectfully ask the DAO to put funding for this proposal on hold for one cycle while some oversight issues are resolved.

My main concern is that Ash could use our funds to work on a separate version or even a separate project he has not disclosed. This actually happened before with Ash. He had a successful proposal to create eWallet* and he used funds from that proposal to create something else entirely (switchly.com).

What I would like to propose, in addition to providing the DAO with a SOFTWARE ROADMAP, is that Ash and whoever else is working on DR agree to provide DashWatch with weekly TIMESHEETS that detail tasks and time spent on DR. And when I say DR I mean the version of DR that is subject to the license agreement.


* You can watch Ash's cheerful updates as his eWallet project collapses here:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/ewallet-uk-fiat-dash-exchange-update-thread.28462/
Reply
3 points,5 months ago
I don't think there is any merit to this idea. The Dash DAO has not made any contract with other DAOs to not have work on other projects, failed or otherwise. Trying and failing is essential in business, the vast majority of new businesses fail for this and other reasons. Therefore, its rather in bad taste, at least imo, for you to use that as a wedge against this PO.

No, I believe not only in the liqudity school of Dash adoption, which DEMANDS that we reward POs that provide solid ROI and growth as this PO has done, but also that it is in extremely bad business taste to put successful business relationships on hold based on rumors, speculation and previous unrelated ventures.

I would advise other MNOs to disregard this suggestion on the grounds that the Teams in Venezuela are poised to begin using Dash Retail's products upon resumption of normal activities in the Venezuela in the next two or so weeks.

Dash Retail is a key player in our strategy for global adoption through increased ease-of-use at the point of sale. There are lots of members of our competition who do not like the fact that we're rapidly leaving them in the dust in terms of UX and overall usability. So they pretend to come up with "concerns" to justify dismantling our growing DAOs. That's what this looks like to me here, and given geert's proven unfair behavior towards this PO in the past, documented by myself and AshFrancis in comments below, it stands to reason to reject this idea out-of-hand.
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
I would like to invite all DR supporters to test out the product. Here is my personal experience.

1 - Went to app.dashretail.org.
2 - Created an account.
3 - Set up a payment address.
4 - Set up 2FA.
5 - Switched to POS mode (this logs you out).
5 - Attempted to log back in (login failed).

In order to log back in you have you will have to change your password, but there is no "forgot password" link, so I had to use a different browser to do that. Once you create a new password you're presented with a blank screen with a spinner that never stops spinning.

Ok, so now you are logged in, but your password will not work going forward, so you will need to change your password every time you want to log back in.

Not once was I presented with a 2FA challenge.

There is no indication on the POS screen which account you are using to accept funds.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
There are many more constructive ways to report errors but investigating this now.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Update:
- Issue with 2FA login fixed, error handling issue (mismatch between api response and front-end expected response)
- Added 'company name' up top right, to give indication of which account is being used (non-standard use of system but no issue to add name up there)
- Investigating pass change with 2FA enabled issue now (expected flow would be to prompt for 2FA regardless, need to establish flows for 2FA reset still)

Note: Switching to POS mode is supposed to log you out as clerks shouldn't have access to merchant functions or too much data. A more common usecase is set-up of additional devices (instead of using the same device to administer the account as you do to take payments) but we do accommodate all use cases.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Update:
- I've now fixed the pass reset issue too (invalid local storage token kept after pass change, now deleted as part of reset flow)

The reported issues should now be fixed though please check and report back, always happy to receive bug reports but there are more constructive ways about this.

For now anyone can email me or reach out to me on Discord though we'll have a more formal support ticketing system in place soon (as well as live chat support for day-to-day enquiries).
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
Thank you for fixing all the show-stopper bugs in app.dashretail.org. My experience attempting to use app.dashretail.org leads me to believe that no one is currently using it and no one is currently working on it either. So the question is -- what are you actually currently working on?

Would you please provide the DAO with a roadmap with release timeframes and descriptions so we can understand exactly what you are working on?
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Your trolling is getting quite obvious Geert... clearly if 2FA has a bug that means no one is using DR or working on it? Come on, be a little more subtle, anyway back to ignoring you.

For anyone else interested in what we're working on just open a dialog with me any time, we're working hard on the goals listed in our proposal with a various work going on right now from implementing the great feedback given by local teams, to optimizing our apps, releasing a top-level website and improving all of our translations.
Reply
-2 points,5 months ago
After testing out app.dashretail.org, I would like to suggest that DR create a web page that has a software roadmap on it. It's unclear to me where the project is going.

Version 1.0 is basically a wallet that accepts one Dash and prints out a piece of paper that says you paid one Dash. Is this going to evolve into a kind of Bitpay? Is it going to adopt more POS features? Is it aiming to become a decentralized money transmitting tool for buying and selling crypto?

We need an understanding also of how the success of this project will be evaluated. What are the KPIs (Key Performance Indicators)?
Reply
-2 points,5 months ago
I don't understand why you can't provide us with a roadmap. It's important for us and it will be helpful for you too.

https://www.productplan.com/what-is-a-software-roadmap/
Reply
2 points,6 months ago
Just wanted to thank all of you for the support, we've had a ton of messages both directly and on twitter, reddit, etc. - really glad you like what we're doing as much as we do!

The next update on here I will post is when the licensing has been finalized which should be in the coming weeks, if you like more regular updates I'm easily reached on twitter, discord, email, skype, etc. (details at bottom of proposal).

We also have a group of MNOs and POs who we work closely with to get input and refine what we're working on to make sure it best meets the needs of the DAO, the more heads the better so if you're interested in helping us to that end please reach out.

Whilst there may be some manufacturing delays due to COVID-19, we should have the existing devices here posted out in the coming weeks and hopefully more devices on their way. We've received quite a few requests to purchase the devices and questions around cost so we will put the main website live soon with an ordering page. As for cost, we're DAO funded so won't take a profit on this, our manufacturer sells them at around $100 each so adding on shipping, set-up, customization and forwarding it should be around $120-$150, the lower end especially for larger orders (like to the local adoption teams).

Thanks once again for all the support, the constructive criticism and great enthusiasm from the MNOs, POs and wider members of the community.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
@AshFrancis, thank you for posting this message. Too often proposal owners forget to say thanks or post a message once they receive their funding. MNOs that contribute spend their time to give feedback and that takes time.

I would do what you did and post a thank you note and its good to see I'm not alone in feeling a genuine sense of gratitude for things received.
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2 points,6 months ago
Congratulations!
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4 points,6 months ago
Abstained for awhile, read all the arguments. Dash retail, in my opinion, is an essential product and service for Dash to have in its arsenal, and will have my support.
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1 point,6 months ago
The Dash Retail system is very impressive! This will be very important and extremely useful for the dash ecosystem in Venezuela and the rest of the world, continue the great work Ash.

All the support from the Dash Text Team!
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1 point,6 months ago
Yes from me.
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3 points,6 months ago
I would like the MNOs to know I have had many online chats and several long call with Dash Retail over the last 3 months. I have liaised with the teams in Venezuela to learn more specifically what they need in terms of a POS payment system for their projects. I sent a list of questions to Yoana at Dash Mall & Parking project in January and the information gleaned from the answers was given to Dash Retail. Based on that information Dash Retail started modifying their systems to meet the requirements which included adapting their systems for the Tap and Pay Dash Cards.

Ash has been responsive to my requests for information and he has shown his willingness to create a POS that meets the needs and requirements of the teams on the ground in Venezuela.

Personally I feel this is the type of investment the network needs to be spending more money on. This is an investment into making DASH a better payment solution for real world practical applications. The Tap and Go Dash cards make payments simple for anyone, even if they don't have a smartphone or in fact any phone. The customer themselves do not even require an internet connection - only the merchant requires an internet connection to make a payment. This makes Dash payments simple and easy for anyone to use - including Granny.

In addition to this I feel a very significant part of this project is that they are giving the rights to the network to use all of this technology they develop to us through the DCG via a license. Do not get confused however by the word "License". The license is required in any environment - including the open source world. It is basically an agreement that determines how the software and technology may be used. In this case the Dash Retail technology would be given to the network to use, sub-license, adapt and modify provided that it is for a DASH project. There may be other requirements in the License but my understanding is that Dash Core Group will have lawyer to ensure that the terms of the license enable the DASH Retail system to be used by the network for our projects. This means that DASH teams around the world who need a DASH POS system would be able to obtain a license from the DAO to have their own POS system with the tap and go cards system which opens up hundreds of payment opportunities that currently do not exist for DASH. This is hugely beneficial to the network because it means teams will not have to build from scratch their own POS systems and will have off the shelf Dash payment technology ready to go technology.

One of the most exciting parts about this project is that the DashPay Tap and Pay cards (NFC cards) which enable anyone to make DASH payments without training. All they have to do to charge their card up is tap the Dash card on the terminal, hand over their fiat currency to the merchant, press an accept button and their Dashpay card is charged up ready to make payments.

To make a payment all a customer has to do is tap the card on the Dash Retail terminal and press a button to accept the payment. This means that DASH will be a payment method that anyone can use with no training, no phone, no internet and no electricity. This removes most of the barriers to entry for people to use DASH. This is an important step forward for DASH and this is the type of investment I feel DASH needs to be focused more on. This project is providing practical real world solutions to improve DASH as a payment system.

There is still a lot of improvement work to be done on the Dash Payment cards in particular however we need to start testing the cards in the field to get more real world use of the cards. The funding in this proposal will enable Dash Retail to make these essential improvements and modifications that are required based on feedback from teams in the field.

For me this is one of the most exciting and worthwhile projects we funded to date, and with the intellectual property rights being given to the network it makes this even more attractive and sets an excellent example to all other DAO funded projects.
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1 point,5 months ago
Great comment, couldn't agree more.
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4 points,6 months ago
Hello all, Posting this on behalf of DCG business development team, I can confirm that we (DCG and Dash Retail) are working together on licensing Dash Retail. Our lawyers are ready to begin drafting the licensing agreement. Additionally, as stated in the proposal, the business development team is working with Dash Retail for merchants to utilize Dash Retail systems wherever possible and in line with our strategy.
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-4 points,6 months ago
"Our lawyers are ready to begin drafting the licensing agreement."

Please let us know when the licensing agreement is executed. At that point I will be ready to begin to consider upvoting this [fourth!] proposal.
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4 points,6 months ago
One thing to clarify... it was DCG's decision to wait until after the proposal passes to incur legal expenses. I don't think it makes sense to incur the costs before the budget for those costs is approved. We could have the agreement drafted if this were at least passing.
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-2 points,6 months ago
So this "DAO owned" software will be owned (copyrighted) by DCG and Ash's company Astound Group LTD will license it from DCG? Or is that still to be determined?
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2 points,6 months ago
Its strange to see you behave so aggressively towards this PO when they clearly are providing a needed and necessary service for Dash, yet to watch you softshoe the, in my opinion, much less effective and valuable "Dash Press NewsRoom" proposal.

What's going on? Why are you so harsh on proposals that have provided successful ROI (Dash retail point of sale 1.0 launched), and go so easy on proposals that don't really offer much? Here's your comment from 4 days ago on DashPress's proposal:

"$15,000 seems like a lot. Would it be possible to have a bit more detail?

1 - Which software product are you licensing and what does it cost?
2 - Who are you hiring to do what and how much are they being paid?
3 - How much do you intend to pay yourself?

Thank you."

Wow, so forgiving! So permissive! Such respect and good manners! You even said thank you at the end, wow its like you're a totally different person...You think $15,000 is a lot, but you'd like a bit more detail? Interesting.

Yet in this proposal, you are jumping down the POs throat, making multiple wild, aggressive and completely inappropriate accusations despite a lower ask with much more transparency. I think it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that hypocrisy and double-standards have NO PLACE in the DAO.

You are exposing that you are not being fair towards different proposal owners and appear to have a personal agenda in behaving so. One that doesn't benefit the MNOs and rest of the Dash community (or you wouldn't seek to hide it by your unexplained and unreasonable aggression towards particular POs).
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-1 point,6 months ago
Why can't we withhold funding until a licensing agreement is in place? Ash has had months to get this done and he's been dragging his feet on this IMHO.
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1 point,6 months ago
Firstly, you didn't answer the question, why are you so aggressive with this PO and not with the DashPress proposal? That is an important question for you to answer as your credibility is called into question when you engage in hypocrisy and preferential treatment for selfish reasons.

And the reason we shouldn't withhold funding is because there is no reason to do anything like that, that's not our job. Our job is to vote YES! for proposals that grow Dash adoption and NO! for those that don't. You're advocating that we trash our relationship with this PO who has delivered much good work and is yet working to further decentralize their offer, to a level that no other proposal has done. And yet you only use this criticism against them.

Once again, the DAO only works if all parties, MNOs and POs act in good faith. Holding a proposal hostage for arbitrary reasons is not acting in good faith. The fact that you do not bring up these contentions on certain other proposals strongly points to you and your comments having a personal, political bias. That has NO PLACE in MNO discussions or voting and you abuse your position as a MNO by engaging that way.
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1 point,6 months ago
You say these things with such conviction but I have been working on this for months, it's the first time it has been done, these things take time and they need to be done right as it sets a standard for how it's done in future. Sure don't fund us this month and then vote yes next month if that's what's holding you back, but I won't be surprised if there is yet another reason.
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2 points,6 months ago
Just happened to come across the most recent DashRetail DashWatch report for March 2020. I'll summarize the findings here so that MNOs are aware of the goals and overall progress towards those goals that the Dash Retail team has achieved. Firstly, DashWatch reports that Dash Retail has completed its previous proposal scope and successfully delivered the 1.0 version of their POS system, so Congratulations are in order for Ash Francis and the Dash Retail team! They have delivered on the proposal that they were funded to deliver and are deploying now.

So, that's the first reason to vote Yes! for this proposal. Mrhack's comments are basically irrelevant in light of this report. We can take supposition, guesses and assumptions (none of which seem to come from genuine or honest places), or we can take the verified information from the impartial third-party we hired to check such things. From the report:

"Released version 1.0 of the Dash Retail POS

Features include:- Easy set-up of hardware devices, phones or computers as Dash accepting POS terminals;- Full payment tracking and reporting;- Full adoption agent system for merchant sign up and support;- Direct conversion to fiat by auto-depositing received Dash onto a fiat card on Uphold (requires an Uphold account) or other services with similar auto-conversion functionality."

So this is done. This is work completed that would not have been were it not for this team. So that is already reason enough to vote yes as I stated. We should reward good behavior that we want to see more of, and only withhold funding for VERIFIED, PROVEN reasons. They released 1.0, but as we all know, software doesn't stop there. They need to continue adding features, bug removal, ordering and distributing the physical hardware devices to clients as well as the NFC cards. Which is just amazing stuff. Need I say more? Read the report for yourself and vote YES! for Dash Retail!
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3 points,6 months ago
The link to the report can be found here:

https://reports.dashwatch.org/MAR20/dash-retail-dev--10-launch---dao-owned-merchant-platform.pdf
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4 points,6 months ago
Thank you for the support, whilst there was a couple of months delay due to the complexity of the project, we shouldered all costs during this process and promised not to come back to the DAO until 1.0 was launched. I'm glad we have met all of our milestones except the last one; ahead of the completion of this proposal we have sent funds to DCG for their lawyers to complete the necessary legal work to give the DAO full control over Dash Retail. It's my understanding that this will be the first proposal outside of DCG to give its assets to the network, hopefully this will lay the groundwork for future IP transfers too.
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-2 points,6 months ago
In your last video you [Ash] said that DashRetail was live.

Who is going to use a centralized, closed-source, POS web application that is providing absolutely no information regarding who owns the software, under what license it's being used, what company is providing the service, what exactly the service is, and the terms of service.

My advice to the DAO is to withhold funding from this project until ALL the above uncertainties are COMPLETELY RESOLVED.
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3 points,6 months ago
You keep moving the goalposts Geert, earlier in this proposal you accused that I was going to "hire a lawyer to beat up the DAO over licensing terms" when it has always been made very clear that the funds would go to DCG to hire their own lawyers to act in the best interests of the network. DCG have now received these funds and the ownership transfer / irrevocable licensing is underway.

Once that is complete we will document the full nature of the licensing and who is providing what service under what terms. This is literally the first entity outside of DCG to give full rights to the DAO, can you just let this happen without your constant badgering. It's pretty clear you have an agenda, especially when you don't apply the same logic to other similar proposals.
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2 points,6 months ago
@geert see the message below by Dash core group username MichaelMarketing. The Dash Core Group lawyers are drafting the license agreement for Dash Retail and sent confirmation of this in this proposal. Would Dash Core Group have posted this message if they were not confident in making a beneficial license agreement with Dash Retail ?

To be clear the IP rights is not the goal of this proposal. It is an extra benefit.

Even without the IP agreement this POS software and hardware with the Dash cards is needed and worth voting for. The IP rights are an additional benefit.

You've made a strong request for the exact terms of an IP licence agreement only with this project which I find a little unusual because you have not asked for IP rights in other proposals. In fact, quite the opposite, e.g In the DashWatch proposal you actively commented against me requesting for IP rights for one project. https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-watch-15th-proposal-march-2019-fund

Anyone that is truly for DASH can see this POS with payment cards will bring great benefits to the network and the DASH teams on the ground that need this solution. The IP is being voluntarily given by Ash to the network as an extra. Even without the IP rights this project is worth the votes.
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2 points,6 months ago
Here, here. My thoughts exactly. There's no way in my mind that you can be "For Dash" if you're against this proposal. No way. Dash desperately needs this solution and we've already funded them to 1.0. There's no reason to stop now, unless you don't like what we're doing...
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4 points,6 months ago
view: the proposal is OK, however, the order of things we as a network are pursuing is extremely flawed. Economies do NOT switch to very volatile currencies.
Hence, the money + manpower from a proposal like this should rather be focused on achieving an in-wallet hedging feature (such as based on the Debnk whitepaper)! : )
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1 point,6 months ago
Hah, as I'm sure you're aware we've been big supporters of bringing the DEBNK approach to Dash :) the big issue is there are so many moving parts to their structure and a void of talent that can accomplish everything in their whitepaper - even then their theories are largely untested, though on the surface seem sound. Demelza Hays is currently investigating stable coin options in Dash I believe so we should see some great insight there. I will also reply to your comment below about Venezuela - thank you!
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0 points,5 months ago
good to hear
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-3 points,6 months ago
As much as ash and alex would like to pretend they are here for the good of the dash dao they are NOT, i would urge all fellow MNO to consider reviewing their performance from the very first proposal and onwards im sure you will be stunned to find a complex history of non-performance and other mismanagement.

They promised a 'dao funded exchange' all we got ? A somewhat paltrily functioning switchly.com which doesnt even have a order book not what we where sold originally the ewallet and exchange promised.

WHICH IS VERY MUCH A FOR PROFIT!

Contrary to what the PO would like to beleive not much else is going on with DR,

They are a TWO man team that is barely making ends meet, and they consistently keep biting off more than they can chew.

They got two projects in the works right now, and not a single one up and running and functional 100%

Read the facts and between the lines you will br amazed to notice whats going on

Lets finish one and well considering funding for the second

Vote NO!
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4 points,6 months ago
I think it's about time I exposed the truth on you Rameez, from the constant manipulations against us to the physical threats you made against me and my family, you disgust me.
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3 points,6 months ago
We budgeted $200k for the exchange build, we received $36k, all verifiable by Dash Watch. Despite that we still built a crypto:crypto exchange and have repurposed and made use of that code in Dash Retail. We've contributed thousands of hours to this project at a third our industry rate, I've used my life savings towards keeping us afloat. You are simply bitter that we refused to build your business for you after you never held up your end of the agreement and made physical threats. You are a sad little man and you're forcing my hand here, I world show you the world who you are from the threats against me to the laughing that you ran over a police man.

Dash Retail is live, Switchly is live, we've gone above and beyond for the dao and you and geert are desperate to destroy that, no matter the cost to Dash. I can only hope the dao can see you for who you really are.
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-2 points,6 months ago
First off that was a typo wasnt meant to be J was meant to be I will see you at your house*


Secondly first figure out my name since you are foolish prick who cant figure it out.
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0 points,5 months ago
i ctrl-f'ed for house. I don't see house mentioned elsewhere in here. So what was the typo?
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2 points,6 months ago
Thanks to mikenewhouse for highlighting this on Nexus; we had accidentally omitted what our focus will be for the next four months. I have edited the proposal to include that now but also pasted below:

The majority of our focus will be on refining the main Dash Retail application based on our work with the local teams, this includes UX and flow improvements, new requested features, better structures for merchant:agent relationship (pass reset, exchange settlement, etc) and any other feedback they have, to make the system best accommodate the agents and their merchants needs.

Alongside this, we will be:
- Ordering and distributing hardware devices & NFC cards
- Improving & releasing our Android and iOS Apps
- Releasing Beta features into active use
- Supporting deployment of Dash Retail into merchants in Venezuela
- Working with Dash translators to accurately translate Dash Retail into their languages
- Investigating deploying apps on Clover POS & Verifone POS Hardware
- Investigating Dash Retail integration with Dash Platform (username based payments etc)
- Investigating dedicated linux based hardware for cheaper bulk costs, improved security, better nfc, etc.
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2 points,6 months ago
<-Supporting deployment of Dash Retail into merchants in Venezuela >
Opportunity in Vz seems to be over. Why? A great supply of USD has been entering the country for the last year. And thus people have an alternative to the Bolivar that they are very happy with.
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3 points,6 months ago
Venezuela is a complex subject and I won't pretend to know all the answers. Dash Core Group believe that our efforts in Venezuela are still very worthwhile as their economy is largely in a state of flux, what might be true now might not be the case in two months. On paper you are right, there has been an influx of USD and there is a large preference to USD over Bolivars. However, as with this pandemic the demand for physical USD is at a high and there is a large supply issue that is on-going, which will only be worsened by the soaring demand from the states and elsewhere for physical dollars. From our conversations with local teams there are plenty of issues with USD that Dash solves, both in terms of supply and in terms of being able to give change to customers (US denominations are both lacking in supply and don't meet the needs of the VZ economy).

All that said, Dash Retail is global - any team or merchant is welcome to use it and it will continue to be developed and work with PSPs to help them integrate Dash. Our goal is to complete the loop in terms of the 'acceptance' side of being Digital Cash, wherever the wallet isn't sufficient.

I'm happy to expand on this further and I'm always interested in hearing different viewpoints. One angle you might appreciate (based on your name and comments on this and other proposals) is that we are looking into trustless, non-custodial NFC wallets for Dash. This would offer a route to banking the billions of unbanked without the need for a smart phone or even a phone at all.
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1 point,5 months ago
Oh, there is a large demand for physical dollars going on outside of Venezuela? There is the view that: physical USD is much less accepted at stores (since could transmit the virus), hence the demand for it could be down a lot
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0 points,6 months ago
Voting Yes! here. Having a unified retail payment solution exclusively for Dash is definitely a good thing for us as a network. The best and easiest way to beat every other coin is to constantly create as many advantages as possible for Dash adoption, usage and storage to make it easier, faster, more secure and better to use Dash over any other coin.

InstantSend, Chain-locks, sporks, decentralized governance and funding, all of these have a part to play in this dance that, once completed, will see our coin as the most technically advanced offering in the space. It technically already is, but soon this technological advantage will be insurmountable. I.e. if your coin doesn't have masternodes how are you going to fund core development while avoiding corporate capture? If your coin doesn't have instant transactions, how can you compete with Dash's retail and other use-case adoption in the coming years?

If you don't have decentralized teams working for adoption, spreading necessary knowledge and completing the necessary grassroots efforts needed for growth, how will you beat us at the point of sale? If you don't have usernames, contacts lists and other functionality in your wallets available then how will you provide a similar experience to Dash for your users? Eventually, these questions will get too loud to ignore any further.

With that ever approaching future in mind, the facts definitely appear to be in favor of the PO here. Working with Dash Help, Dash Text and Dash Impulse as first integrations is a very bullish sign and the exact path we would need to walk as a community if we wish to see that future come to fruition. Here a little, there a little; eventually, it adds up.

Eventually, DCG+Dash Impulse+Dash Mall and Parking+Dash Nigeria+Dash Electrum+Dash Nexus+...etc. all together = mass adoption for Dash. That's the equation and Venezuela is the country that has time and time again shown the most growth and interest in Dash over the last couple years. Because of that we would do well to fully cultivate that relationship by supporting all the DAOs that cowork with those in Venezuela, such as this proposal.

What's more, this proves that the DAO can create synergistic growth over long periods of time despite being decentralized and basically "leaderless". DAOs are automatically working together for the benefit of the network and for the most corporate gain. This mutually beneficial feedback loop allows us to innovate solutions to the real problems that are being faced at the retail point of sale by everyday users all over the globe.

This is exactly the kind of feedback we need to grow our adoption, vital experience that other coins have a long way to go in order to earn. We must act now to secure our advantage over our competition and maintain our growth in areas that are not deliberately trying to ignore our coin to death. And we should definitely support those POs that not only work well with others, this is a global community we're trying to foster after all, but also deliver visible, tangible results. The merchant retail system demo'ed here looks slick, easy to use and professional.

No other coin is close to us when it comes to trying, failing, and succeeding at determining what is necessary or not for adoption. This team has already provided a solid, working product and they are already integrating it into DAOs in the wild that are working to grow our adoption. Let's give our burgeoning community the complete financial support they need to make our Dash investments grow to their fullest potential by voting Yes! for Dash Retail.
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1 point,6 months ago
Thank you, the local teams have been really proactive in testing and providing feedback, with screenshots, bug reports, suggestions, etc - couldn't be happy to be working with them.
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1 point,6 months ago
happier*!

As an added note; I fully agree, the more the teams collaborate the more efficient we are.
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2 points,6 months ago
Voting yes. We desperately need a POS system like this for projects like the DashMallParking project. If the network also has the rights to license the software and the IP and sub-license it then I see that as a good thing. If the network wanted to have the exclusive license then we should have sourced, project managed and paid the developer team ourselves. This is something I've been put forward for some time. It would a modification to the current Governance system to allow custom projects to setup to develop products like this. You can read about the proposal here under the heading:

<Suggested Improvements to DASH Proposal and Governance System That Increase Value Of DASH>

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/flexible-proposal-system.49134/

To expect an independent team to hand over all IP and not expect to benefit themselves I think is unreasonable request. If it was our own team that we hired, managed and paid fixed and guaranteed monthly salary then we have all the rights but we are not yet running projects like this.

MNOs that are claiming we should own all rights to the software and hardward developed by a team and they have no rights to make a good profit from their work you should therefore be in favour of the changes to the governance system I put forward in the link above. If you're not prepared to change the governance system then this is the best option we have so far where the project owner is granting us a license to do with the software and IP what we need.

One question I have for Ash. If you continue to develop the software and enhance using Dash Treasury funds will you also ensure that those updates and improvements are also added to the IP that you provide DCG?
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2 points,6 months ago
Thank you for the support, I agree that DAO spending could made much more efficient if it was led by strategy, had an rfq based approach and applied agile methodology.

In answer to your question and for clarity; we will pay funds from this proposal directly to Dash Core Group who will then pay DCG's own lawyers (not ours!) to review the license and ensure it best serves the DAOs interests. This license will cover all future updates made to Dash Retail and we will provide DCG with full access to source code (like through access to our private git repository).
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-3 points,6 months ago
"We will be allocating approximately $2000 from this proposals budget to the necessary legal costs to fully license Dash Retail to Dash Core Group"

If this is "DAO owned," shouldn't YOU be licensing this software from the the DAO and not the other way around?
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2 points,6 months ago
With the license we have spoken to DCG about there is no distinguishable difference between that and ownership. The license is perpetual and irrevocable and includes all rights to sub license, use part of the code or all of it in any setting commercial or not, use the name, artworks, anything. If DCGs own lawyers say an ownership transfer and license awarded to ourselves would be better in terms of DCG liability and the DAOs interests then we would do that.
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0 points,6 months ago
IMHO, they should have released a simple, stand-alone Android app that does the basics so it can be in use right now.

Having a closed-source, centralized web-app is the wrong way to go IMO.
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4 points,6 months ago
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.
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0 points,6 months ago
Voting YES! We are at a crossroads here in the markets, with worldwide panic, this is the kind of application that can make or break Dash.
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1 point,6 months ago
Thank you Agnew!
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2 points,6 months ago
Is this version 1.0 LTS due Jan 31?
What company is hosting this and providing this service?
Where is the page on the website that explains the services offered?
Where is the terms of service?
Where is the privacy policy?

You led us to believe you were going to release a usable product and create not some ever-evolving demoware.

Link to your prior proposal for reference:
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-retail-dev--10-launch---dao-owned-m
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0 points,6 months ago
In case anyone else is reading this, Geert has proven himself a very determined troll as you can see on that previous proposal and this one. He constantly lies, manipulates context, moves goalposts and spams our proposals.

We are finishing off a site to go on the top-level domain (dashretail.org) soon that will have those features, but our priority has been building it, not selling it and no doubt if we had done this before Geert would criticize us for prioritizing something other than the application itself.

The application live at https://app.dashretail.org/ though we expect some minor bugs to be discovered through the larger userbase with more devices. It is absolutely usable in its current state and far from 'demoware'. We've had great feedback from real teams using it and are working on more improvements with them.
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-2 points,6 months ago
Its just more empty promises
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-2 points,6 months ago
The purpose of Ash & Alex retaining a perpetual license for themselves if this contract is indeed executed is simply so that there team can use it to make a profit.

Why havent they allocated the exchange, dr etc to dcg/dao yet?

And oh yes they charge fees on switchly so, how is that being allocated. The list goes on..

Now they need us the dao to pay for their office and salaries on a consistent basis when all they do is deliver late or never on a consistent basis.

They claim they have the best interests of the dao at heart?

All while attempting to retain IP and control it and implement it to use in future products?

That's called cutting someone short!

And thats whats happen to the dao.

Voting No!
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2 points,6 months ago
@Realmrhack if you want the DAO to retain 100% control and IP rights then we need to source, hire, manage and fund with consistent monthly salaries (in USD) a team that can do this for us. I suggested a change to the governance system that would give you what you are wanting however nobody seems to be interested in that. So if your not interested in changing the governance system I think you are going to find it next to impossible to find a team to manage themselves, take all the risk and just hand over all the IP. That is simply being unreasonable. What you are asking is unreasonable because this team it taking all the risk of creating the POS system upon themselves.

Could you take a look at the suggested modification to the governance system which I wrote about here that would give you what you want. i.e 100% DAO owned assets.

<Suggested Improvements to DASH Proposal and Governance System That Increase Value Of DASH>

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/flexible-proposal-system.49134/
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-1 point,6 months ago
Indeed you are right and i would support such a proposal
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-2 points,6 months ago
Already delayed,

No license agreement or IP assignment agreement signed with the dao

Just more cash grams from ash & alex they first came to us offering to build the dao an exchange

3 years later we have got a changelly type exchange

They keep claiming they are self funding when indeed dash prices went up past proposal(s)

Alot of promises barely any kept

Was a avid supporter but sadly this gravy train has gone on little too long.


Voting NO
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-3 points,6 months ago
You're asking us to give you $2,000 so you can hire a lawyer to beat up the DAO over licensing terms? That's not nice Ash. Why don't we vote on open sourcing the whole thing like you originally promised?
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2 points,6 months ago
As the proposal states, funds will be paid directly to Dash Core Group to hire DCGs own lawyers (not ours) to ensure the license is sound and best protects the interests of the DAO.
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4 points,6 months ago
@geert your questions are all framed in negativity, can you restate it in a neutral tone without the personal attacks? The discussion would benefit if we can focus on the facts and what has been delivered so far. Such aggressive questioning reframes the debate to be about individuals (yourself and Ash) rather than objective discussion about the product itself. So let's try and stay on track here.

From what I can see in the video demo, this meets or exceeds what was promised from the funding in the previous proposal. I don't see why you are calling this "demoware", the top line of this proposal literally states "Dash Retail is live". I have tried it and it works as advertised. There was never any promise of hosting to my knowledge, where did you come up with this?

Regarding licensing, the original proposal promised "full code and license" to a DAO entity (Dash Trust or DIF) and this proposal fulfills that promise. If Ash disappears, the network has the source code and a "irrevocable and full license" with permission to sub-license. Drawing up licensing agreements costs money, do you have another suggestion how to pay lawyers to do this, or get them to do it for free? Similarly, in the previous proposal, you were the only person suggesting open sourcing the code, which would allow all competitors to simply copy it. Could you elaborate on why open sourcing would be a good idea for a business built on and for the benefit of the Dash network? Similarly, can you elaborate on why licensing it to DCG unsatisfactory to you? Are you in some way not confident that the network itself has full control and ownership of DCG?

The other things you are asking for were never promised. Yes, things like privacy policy and terms of service should be discussed and written, but I don't think it is fair for each individual MNO to add their pet requirements to the proposal and state them as if they were previously promised or dealbreakers, particularly restating things like "licensing costs" (neutral tone) as "beating up the DAO" (negative tone).

An enormous amount of work has been done under extraordinarily difficult circumstances, at significant personal expense and while under regular attack from people who cannot state their case without personal attacks. The proposal itself is asking for a very limited amount of budget to cover a negative balance sheet. The product works as advertised and is available today. Any other professional company would have long walked away from the deal as a result of the constant personal attacks, so kudos to Ash for sticking it out. Voting YES.
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-4 points,6 months ago
IMHO, the DAO is best served by open sourcing this project. It's got the Dash logo on it and user funds are involved. Ash said he would allow the DAO to vote on whether or not to open source the project and that he would abide by the result. I would like to hold him to that promise.

Nothing personal. It's just business.
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-3 points,6 months ago
That's what it was supposed to be when he came to the dao, and now hes just after IP and Money
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2 points,6 months ago
Bullshit!
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-2 points,6 months ago
Fact!

I been dealing with there ever changing goal post strategy for 3 years since late 2017

Ash and alex have no coherent strategy other than to mess around and build software without a self sufficient business use case.
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2 points,6 months ago
You’re starting to sound like somebody with an agenda beyond that of a purely incentivised MNO.

Have you had any business dealings with DashRetail in the past? If so, what?

Walter
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-1 point,6 months ago
Oh and to answer, your question no we have had no business dealings with dash retail.
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-1 point,6 months ago
Its not about business dealings

Walter read up there past proposals and their deliverables and you will begin to notice a pattern of an ever changing strategy

Which lacks a coherent path forward

Feel free to reach out via dm and discuss about DR further, thats what these comments are about and shall remain confined to.
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2 points,6 months ago
Our work has definitely evolved, Switchly was proposed at a $200k cost before the DIF even existed and we received ~$36k and still launched a crypto:crypto exchange at significant cost to myself.

If anyone is curious about verifying our funding levels, Dash Watch have audited and have access to every single cost, fully accounted for in our expenses spreadsheet. This includes full fiat cash-out levels, salaries and itemized costs for infrastructure, equipment, etc.
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-3 points,6 months ago
IMHO anyone actually SUPPORTING Ash at this point is liable to have an agenda beyond that of a purely incentivized MNO.
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4 points,6 months ago
You didn't answer the question.
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3 points,6 months ago
I think it's pretty clear to most that you have no integrity Geert.

You have fabricated arguments against me multiple times, even in this proposal you have stated "You're asking us to give you $2,000 so you can hire a lawyer to beat up the DAO over licensing terms?" when the proposal clearly states (and has always done so) that the money will go to DCG to hire DCGs lawyers on behalf of the network. At best you are stupid, can't read a proposal, go on the offensive based on your own ignorance and then can't admit you are wrong. At worst you have an agenda (pretty obvious at this point) and you would see this proposal fail regardless of the cost to the dao, just so you can be proven right.

You keep trying to pick holes in our work, you spam and railroad our proposals, I'm done replying to you apart from to correct your 'facts'. All I see is a sad keyboard warrior with a bruised ego who has made no positive contribution to Dash outside of buying some of it.
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-3 points,6 months ago
Please open source this project and then you can put the $2,000 in your pocket with my compliments. If you open source the project I will even upvote it from now on.
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4 points,6 months ago
So your modus operandi is to attack us in every way you can, with every fallacy until we do so?

We're big advocates of FOSS software, we use it and contribute to it where we can, but this is a commercially sensitive piece of software and going open source with it isn't as simple as moving our git repository to a public github one.

We have put a significant amount of money and time into this, as has the DAO, I won't take the decision to OSS it lightly and nor will I do it on the whims of one MNO - we're responsible to the DAO as a whole and have a ton of respect for it, for those who saw it for it's value early on and those that continue to invest, to hold from $1600 down to $45. I don't have respect for someone who calls POs maggots and leeches. Being a PO doesn't mean I have to kowtow to every MNO and all their requests and I've done everything I can to do right by the DAO and will continue to do so, but that goes two ways.
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