Proposal “dash-hive“ (Completed)Back

Title:Dash Hive
Owner:rion
One-time payment: 5 DASH (296 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 5 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2017-11-18 / 2017-12-18 (added on 2017-11-22)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 0 Yes / 0 No / 0 Abstain

Proposal description

Greetings masternode operators,

I'm proposing to create and staff a new organization called Dash Hive.  I've written a fair amount of detail regarding this, but the main idea is simple:
Dash Hive would be a team of locally-based Dash advocates in the Salt Lake City metro area who would work on community-related projects that serve Dash.

The main proposal document can be found here:
https://github.com/dashcommunity/proposal-dash-hive/blob/master/proposal.md

I am happy to answer any questions you have.  I'm not asking for any money right now - simply asking for protocol-level feedback regarding the concept. 

Thank you for your time and consideration.
- Rion

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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2 points,5 years ago
Rion is obviously a passionate community member who cares about Dash, as he has submitted several proposals that attempt to build the community. I can't believed he'd drop $7,000 just to ask a question, but I admire the gumption. Why wouldn't we at least return his proposal fee and see what he's got in store? Too bad there isn't a mechanism to gauge MN sentiment without having to drop so much coin.
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1 point,5 years ago
Risking $7,000 is a small price to pay in order to increase my (and my friends') much larger investments in Dash.
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0 points,5 years ago
I am abstaining and not voting no, just so you get your 5 DASH back.
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1 point,5 years ago
I'm all ears to hear why you might be inclined to vote no, but thanks for abstaining rather than voting no.
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0 points,5 years ago
My apologies. I meant to say I do want you to get your 5 DASH back. I just don't want to vote yes on something I don't really understand. And give you the impression that I am in favor of it. My apologies also for not taking the time to understand your proposal.
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1 point,5 years ago
Oh no apology needed. I appreciate you taking the time to read it at all, and comment here. I struggled between trying to keep it short enough to not waste too much of MNOs time but long enough to give people an idea of what I have in mind.

Hopefully it will all make more sense over time.
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0 points,5 years ago
Voting "yes" so you can get your 5 dash back, but I am pretty lukewarm to this idea as it stands.
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0 points,5 years ago
Thanks for the vote(s), kalon. I hope to change your mind (to be above lukewarm) over time.
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1 point,5 years ago
Value only exists in transactions.

Too many technologies these days are being developed for the sake of the technology itself without proving their value in the real world.

If crypto currency is going to succeed, someone needs to demonstrate that it's useful beyond stock/investment and is valuable for commodity trade of goods and services.

I believe that a symbiotic relationship between a localized group of grassroots Dash devs and their actual real-world community will naturally result in a higher value of Dash as a currency and give the Dash community greater reach - and as transactions between external networks increase, the value of Dash will increase.

The one addendum I would add to this proposal would actually be to allocate some percentage funds that are *not* tied to the Dash community - let some of it go towards "selfish" autonomy that which may or may not be completely external. I don't know the right words to explain this, but I think an economist would both understand and be able to reiterate in a more correct way, but essentially the transaction of work/value/product needs to somehow reach "normal" people. Maybe something like using Dash to pay for development for some non-profit group or open source community - like a high school tutor program or matrix.org or gitea or something else in the "grassroots" spirit.
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1 point,5 years ago
Nice to see you here, AJ. I completely agree with your "value only exists in transactions" sentiment. Fortunately the Dash community is more of that mindset than other crypto projects. We're dead set on making Dash a currency, not just a scarce digital asset that's supposed to just sit there.
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3 points,5 years ago
Having worked with Rion and others in the SLC group there are many talented and well connected people there. Tron is most public facing member. Rion has raised the good point that it helps to have people earning Dash (then adding merchants that they can use it at) in the area is a additional benefit beyond the work the developers release. This a good way to grow the network of Dash ready developers with an alternate payout method that is designed to satisfy MNO's better.
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1 point,5 years ago
Thanks for your comments, ampp. Looking forward to continued work with you, Tron, and all the others.
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3 points,5 years ago
"My main motivation in forming Dash Hive is to jump-start a concentrated, local economy of dash users, including both:

a work force earning (at least partial) income in Dash and providing valuable products and services to Dash,
a merchant base both supported by and supporting the workforce in economic exchange in Dash."

I am not against this (which means i vote yes on this polling of the network), but i do hope if this project gets the green light
there will still be a pre-discussion about the actual funds and time period that will be involved.

Also my yes vote here does not automatically mean a yes vote to your future budget proposal(s).
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1 point,5 years ago
^ Agree with above. Voting yes with my MNs for now. Good luck Rion.
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1 point,5 years ago
Thank you GCleavland. Much appreciated. Noted again.
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1 point,5 years ago
Same sentiments here.
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1 point,5 years ago
Thanks for sharing. Noted. We will definitely engage in open discussion before we move ahead with plans.
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2 points,5 years ago
Thanks for your comment and your vote, quizzie.

You understood it exactly as I intended. I'm not asking for a approval for any funds at this time, nor a solid commitment to pay later, just a vote signifying that you conceptually agree with the approach described.

To summarize that approach:

1. We work and deliver what is in the scope of work.
2. We release our work products, ask for any feedback including requested modifications, etc.
3. We ask for funding for what we've done.

Actual funding requests will be close to the budgetary estimates in the prior proposal (two project proposals linked to from the main proposal in this case).

The main idea is we're working before asking for funding. This is designed specifically to address the issue that has plagued the treasury with past proposals of contractors getting paid but not delivering as expected (e.g. the Shrem debit card). This also eliminates middle man escrow.
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0 points,5 years ago
Did you ever pay those bloggers I understand you still owed as of your last proposal to the network?
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1 point,5 years ago
Yes, of course.
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1 point,5 years ago
I paid them long before my last proposal. Not sure where you heard they hadn't been paid.
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1 point,5 years ago
The paper wallet tool sample project (linked to in the Scope of Work) is now updated:

https://github.com/dashcommunity/proposal-dash-hive/blob/master/paper-wallet-tool.md
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0 points,5 years ago
This proposal has a very strong thesis, that getting paid in Dash means you will spend Dash. If the follow-up report shows that Salt Lake City has a bunch of people who want to work for Dash, and if the Hive can identify work for them to do that helps the network, then you will certainly have my support.
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1 point,5 years ago
That's the goal. I'd really like to see some merchant adoption, but with Dash's performance it's really hard to support merchants, unless people are earning primarily in Dash.
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1 point,5 years ago
I see the necessity to devellop this kind of "subDAO" to act locally. I think you have a great opportunity to create a template for other regions. Now its about the cost and use of funds of a real proposal. Yes for you to come with a formal proposal.
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1 point,5 years ago
Thanks for coming back to comment again, Beru. I agree with you, one of the best things that could come out of this would be for it to encourage other groups of people to form. Would be great to see other geographic teams (e.g. Vienna, Austin, London, etc) each with their own branding and target work. Would also be cool to see some non-geographic teams specializing in whatever niche service. Point being I'd like to see more steadily-funded teams forming. It improves efficiency overall.
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2 points,5 years ago
Updated scope of work: https://github.com/dashcommunity/proposal-dash-hive/commit/4bf23310fb88e8aa8c838851bc5a3c44c99ec971
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2 points,5 years ago
I'm not really understanding why you are seeking protocol level feedback on this. Are you asking MNs whether they support you trying out an initiative on your own? If so then I don't know why it wouldn't pass since there is probably no downside to trying something to see if it is helpful. But if you are asking for feedback as in, possible willingness of MNs to actually fund this project at a later time, that's a different question altogether. What are you going for here?
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2 points,5 years ago
Hello Troy, I'm seeking MNO sentiment. What I'm proposing is somewhat new, which is why it's not exactly straight-forward. I'm not proposing to do a one-off project, I'm explicitly asking whether they'll support our *team*, on an ongoing basis.

Basically, if this passes I'm going to start interviewing all 200 members of my Dash-specific meetup group to see exactly what kinds of skills I have on hand, and what ideas people have. That alone is going to take a considerable effort from me (as well as time and effort from those I'm interviewing). We're all busy people in my meetup. These are skilled professionals. We'd rather not spend a hundred hours on something that MNOs fundamentally don't agree with. I've already put hundreds of hours into uncompensated local community building. It turns out that grassroots community building takes a lot of effort (which, thankfully I enjoy).

This isn't about money for me. This is about making Dash great, because I'd like more freedom in my life and in my community. That's one reason I'm not asking for money just yet. But in addition, I'm also not asking for money because I first want to know if MNOs support this concept *ideologically*. I'm not taking it for granted that MNOs even want to additional groups in the mix. Perhaps they want to stick with just sending more money to Core and DF for example. Perhaps they do want to support other groups, but for whatever reason they don't want to support *this* group. That's what I'm trying to figure out. If I asked for money and got turned down I wouldn't know if I was asking for too much money, or they simply don't want to support this group.

Finally, yes, I will be asking for money in the future, as described in my proposal, because I'll need money to attract talent. Once supported ideologically (through a yes vote here), we'll start generating ideas, accepting solicitations, and building stuff. Once we've built some things, we'll start asking for money.
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2 points,5 years ago
As I understand it, this proposal requests no money (other than proposal application reimbursement). It is meant only to get a feeling for MNO sentiment regarding a Salt Lake city Dash co-op. In that light, sure, I vote "yes". Let's see what you can do. Good luck.
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2 points,5 years ago
Yep. You understand correctly. There are many people in my local meetup group who would be glad to start transitioning into working for Dash, but these are busy, skilled professionals who aren't going to be willing/able to transition out of their current gigs for a chance at contributing to a one-off project here and there. Everyone is busy.

If on the other hand, I am able to show them a proposal with explicit intent from MNOs to support our specific group then it's far more likely that I'll get their time and attention.
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3 points,5 years ago
I read the github but still have no idea what this hive thing is supposed to do. Can you elaborate and give an estimate of how much it will cost every month.
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-2 points,5 years ago
What would you like it to do?
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1 point,5 years ago
This is a great idea! We should be hiring "managers" (Rion?) to fund their own smaller projects:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/76ivzx/dashs_governance_growing_pains/doep4wh/

Rion lists some great benefits:
* It would put idle talent to work for dash
* It would reduce overhead at both ends of treasury proposals:
* MNOs wouldn't need to vet as many people for a given work force
* Individuals wouldn't need to establish reputations before working for dash
* It would eliminate contractor delivery risk (no scams or underperforming projects possible)
* It would provide a simple path to employment for newcomers to Dash.
* It would open/expand the opportunity for MNOs to initiate RFPs
* Co-op skills and qualifications would be expanded and updated regularly
* MNOs would be able to rely on a trust-less and steadily-available workforce
* it would prime SLC to be a future test-bed for pilot programs
* Merchant adoption programs
* A branch office with physical, consumer-facing stores/info desks, etc
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1 point,5 years ago
What would be good enough for me is to see, each week/month, a list of the type of work done (and some proof), amount paid, perhaps who did it (pseudonym may be ok):

Example (perhaps better formatted):
* Jane developed website [howtodash.com]: 5 Dash
* Joe wrote article for newsweek [#1]: 1.3 Dash
* Mary wrote more in-depth article for FT [#2]: 2.5 Dash
* Paul created some Dash-centric artwork [here]: 0.9 Dash
* George wrote a Dash novel [buy it on openbazaar here]: 20 Dash
* Joe cooked a meal for public informational event [pics here]: 0.7 Dash
* George drove someone to the airport [??]: 0.1 Dash

IDK, to be honest (at least in the beginning) I almost wouldn't even care what "tasks" you're having your Hive do - I love the idea of "hiring" more people to develop/contribute to the Dash ecosystem - *earning* Dash instead of "buying" Dash.
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2 points,5 years ago
Perhaps even a summary would be good enough, idk yet. For example:

This month Dash Hive-SLC-branch spent 13 Dash on local marketing, 9 Dash on meetup events, 27 Dash on food, and 3 Dash on miscellaneous.
Dash Hive-Provo-branch spent 8 Dash on local marketing, 42 Dash on meetup events, 5 Dash on water, 0.5 Dash on miscellaneous.

I'm excited about this idea and hope to see more support for this and more groups like this develop in the future.
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1 point,5 years ago
Thank you, henrygeorgist. I appreciate you highlighting this for others. I see a future where there are hundreds of autonomous groups like this. I am happy to lead, but I in no way want to "manage" people. I simply want to create a group where people work autonomously, but collaboratively.
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1 point,5 years ago
The proposal document is a good read, and I encourage you to look it over too. Another excellent point Rion made that I want to highlight:

The best way to promote (brick & mortar) merchant adoption is to create a (local) work force:

* If someone buys dash they are unlikely to spend it
Those who exchange dash for local currencies have, in doing so, expressed their preference to hold it
This person values Dash more as an investment than a currency
They will likely prefer to spend their local currency over spending dash

* Alternatively, if someone earns Dash, they are likely to spend it
People need to consume to survive
People will generally shop using the most convenient, inexpensive, fast, and enjoyable method available
Using dash is all of those things, provided consumers can find merchants who offer what we need
The greater the portion of one's income is earned in Dash, the more Dash they will need to spend

* The more consumers earn in Dash, the more support Dash-accepting merchants will get.
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0 points,5 years ago
Thanks again. This observation comes from my personal experience having been involved in bitcoin over the years. There were many local joints who got excited about bitcoin and started accepting, but there simply wasn't the consumer base (willing to spend their hard-bought coins) to keep merchants' staffs trained on how to deal with it when the one random guy walked in after a month and expected to be able to pay with bitcoin. Most of our local shops have sadly discontinued their bitcoin support. I don't want this to happen with Dash.
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1 point,5 years ago
Hello Rion,

I followed really a lot of hyper-links, but in the end what will this do?
"The main idea is that Dash Hive will be industrious - writing, developing, building."

This part explains more:
"Specifically for this project, it will be useful in recruiting membership for Dash Hive. An agreed-to LOI will show recruits (who may be unfamiliar with the Dash Treasury process) that MNOs are agreeing in good faith to fund activities that people may spend significant time and money producing."

You are asking us to support you in your current and future initiatives? Of course I do! But please show what you can and want to do, something more than the paperwalletgenerator.

I prefer a proposal to have a clear measurable result so I can evaluate exactly what the costs of your proposal will bring. This includes future proposals from your hive.

If the idea is to give you trust on forehand before going through the approval process, it is a big NO. If people don't know the process they should get to know it.

My trust you have. Not my LOI.
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0 points,5 years ago
Hello Paul, thanks for taking the time to go through links. It's always difficult to strike the right balance of giving enough detail but not overwhelming people with big walls of text.

I face a bit of a chicken and egg challenge here. In order to know what we will do I need to know what skills and interests I have on hand. That involves interviewing potentially hundreds of people to find the right few people to start building something great. That's a lot of effort for both me and those I'm interviewing to go though, so I'm basically asking for some feedback that those efforts are supported by the MNOs. Please see my response to TroyDASH for a bit more explanation.

Oh, and regarding clear descriptions of goals and costs, yes, you'll get that as soon as we start work. I'm not going to half-ass this thing, so if we get the (explicit, non funded) go ahead to start, we're going to create some great things. Only after those things are created will we ask for funding. It's a zero-risk proposition (for MNOs), at least that's how I've tried to construct this.
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0 points,5 years ago
I would first start to find the people, then make a solid plan and then submit a proposal. Then free money. Please do not half-ass.
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2 points,5 years ago
9 No votes with no content yet lol
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0 points,5 years ago
Haha! Impressive!
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1 point,5 years ago
Ha. Seriously!
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0 points,5 years ago
Isn't this what pre-proposals are for? I don't approve of money potentially coming out of the budget just because someone wants attention.
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0 points,5 years ago
Agree. No need to spend dash with proposal fee then burn it just to get feedback.
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1 point,5 years ago
Apologies for the delay in filling in the content. Had some visitors come by just as I was submitting the proposal.
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1 point,5 years ago
Can we have something to evaluate, please? Even a link in the comments if its easier fo you.
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1 point,5 years ago
You ask, I deliver :)
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1 point,5 years ago
Please link to a full description of your proposal. Thanks,

solarguy
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1 point,5 years ago
Done. Apologies for the delay
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