Proposal “dash-and-asu-certificate“ (Closed)Back
| Title: | Partner with ASU School of Business |
| Owner: | glennaustin |
| One-time payment: | 341 DASH (10444 USD) |
| Completed payments: | no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining) |
| Payment start/end: | 2018-05-19 / 2018-06-17 (added on 2018-05-20) |
| Final voting deadline: | in passed |
| Votes: | 330 Yes / 175 No / 52 Abstain |
Proposal description
This proposal is cross-posted from https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-partner-with-asu-school-of-business-cryptocurrency-certificate.38069/
Goal of the proposal
Dash’s goal is to improve financial freedom by giving people a better way to pay and get paid.
In order to achieve this goal, Dash Core Group conducts research to evaluate network scaling options, understand performance drivers, and improve decision-making.
Already, we’ve partnered with Arizona State University's (ASU) Ira A. Fulton School of Engineering to help us make better decisions with the data they collect from their research on network scaling solutions. This research focuses on technical solutions and measures outcomes of various options via network simulations. Through this research, we are able to make decisions on block size limitations, probability and severity of blockchain forks, and other technical measures of scaling technologies.
With this proposal, Dash Core Group seeks to expand our partnership with Arizona State University by creating a cryptocurrency certificate program with ASU’s business school: the W. P. Carey School of Business. Through the coursework created from the program, students will focus on the business applications of cryptocurrency, and how this technology can be better studied and integrated into finance. Students will be expected to collect data, run financial models, and create studies that Dash Core Group and the rest of the community can leverage to improve performance and grow the network. These studies may include evaluation of market opportunities, short-term and long-term network economics, or the effectiveness Dash treasury proposals.
Dash Core Group and the Dash network will benefit from the certificate program in two ways. First, we will gain valuable insights from the student research. Second, we will benefit from a pipeline of knowledgeable students for employment and internship opportunities.
Proposal background
This proposal seeks funding to establish a cryptocurrency certificate at Arizona State University’s (ASU), W. P. Carey School of Business. A cryptocurrency certificate will contain 15-18 credit hours, the creation of this program would consist of five (5) to six (6) new courses pertaining to cryptocurrency in business. Upon completing the required coursework, students will receive a cryptocurrency certificate which signifies academic proficiency. The cryptocurrency certificate is planned to be offered to students outside the business school, and coursework already under development with the engineering school is expected to qualify toward a cryptocurrency certificate.
ASU W.P.Carey School of Business
The following are why we chose ASU as the business school to partner with:
To reiterate, Dash Core Group intends on partnering with the W. P. Carey School of Business to create coursework that would provide students with a proficiency in cryptocurrency. In the W. P. Carey School of Business, most certificate offerings require a student to take approximately 15-18 credit hours. Therefore, the creation of a new certificate program would entail five (5) to six (6) new courses to be developed. It costs roughly $25,000 to create a course and $25,000 to pay an adjunct professor to teach the course. We would use current Dash in our research budget in addition to the funds requested in this proposal to fund the development of the program. In terms of timing, the 5 courses are anticipated to all be developed and live by Fall 2019. The curriculum will be developed jointly between the Dash Core Group and the W. P. Carey School of Business.
Please note that once the course is created, the only funding needed would be to pay the instructor. There is no expectation that Dash will have to provide funding in the future. In order to sustain the certificate going forward, student enrollment and the associated course fees would pay for the instructors of the courses. Further, ASU is working on opening the coursework to the entire ASU student body which will maximize the reach of the course and contribute to its popularity. Additionally, the course will be available for students to take online (coursera).
ASU’s W. P. Carey School of Business will also brand a breakout study room as the Dash room.
Additional value to the network
By funding this proposal, Dash will be responsible for creating one of the world's first cryptocurrency focused programs at a major academic university. Along with this feat, comes exposure in the form of on and off campus advertising for the newly created certificate program. By enrolling in this program, students will attend lectures and complete coursework about the applications of Dash and other cryptocurrencies. As students graduate Arizona State University with this certificate, they’ll be equipped with the knowledge necessary to apply the technology in their future careers. As a product of work students complete, data will be collected, models created, and studies completed that Dash Core Group and other community projects can leverage for future use. The work completed from this program can be used not only as a tool for the Dash community but as an example for other academic universities to see the value in creating their own cryptocurrency program.
If you have additional questions, please direct them to @Alexander Chopan in the original Forum post.
Requested funding is as follows for the June 3rd budget cycle:
335.98 Dash ($130,000 USD @ $386.93 per Dash)
5.00 Dash reimbursement for the proposal cost
Total: 340.98 Dash
Note: Any unused budget will be applied toward future research expenses.
Goal of the proposal
Dash’s goal is to improve financial freedom by giving people a better way to pay and get paid.
In order to achieve this goal, Dash Core Group conducts research to evaluate network scaling options, understand performance drivers, and improve decision-making.
Already, we’ve partnered with Arizona State University's (ASU) Ira A. Fulton School of Engineering to help us make better decisions with the data they collect from their research on network scaling solutions. This research focuses on technical solutions and measures outcomes of various options via network simulations. Through this research, we are able to make decisions on block size limitations, probability and severity of blockchain forks, and other technical measures of scaling technologies.
With this proposal, Dash Core Group seeks to expand our partnership with Arizona State University by creating a cryptocurrency certificate program with ASU’s business school: the W. P. Carey School of Business. Through the coursework created from the program, students will focus on the business applications of cryptocurrency, and how this technology can be better studied and integrated into finance. Students will be expected to collect data, run financial models, and create studies that Dash Core Group and the rest of the community can leverage to improve performance and grow the network. These studies may include evaluation of market opportunities, short-term and long-term network economics, or the effectiveness Dash treasury proposals.
Dash Core Group and the Dash network will benefit from the certificate program in two ways. First, we will gain valuable insights from the student research. Second, we will benefit from a pipeline of knowledgeable students for employment and internship opportunities.
Proposal background
This proposal seeks funding to establish a cryptocurrency certificate at Arizona State University’s (ASU), W. P. Carey School of Business. A cryptocurrency certificate will contain 15-18 credit hours, the creation of this program would consist of five (5) to six (6) new courses pertaining to cryptocurrency in business. Upon completing the required coursework, students will receive a cryptocurrency certificate which signifies academic proficiency. The cryptocurrency certificate is planned to be offered to students outside the business school, and coursework already under development with the engineering school is expected to qualify toward a cryptocurrency certificate.
ASU W.P.Carey School of Business
The following are why we chose ASU as the business school to partner with:
- ASU’s W. P. Carey School of Business is ranked as one of the Top 30 undergraduate and graduate business schools in the country.
- W. P. Carey has a well-respected management department that ranks within the Top 20 in the country for both graduate and undergraduate education.
- ASU is ranked the #1 university for innovative practices in the country.
- W. P. Carey ranks 1st in the country for research production worldwide (according to Technovation).
- We believe ASU’s W. P. Carey School of Business is the perfect institution to conduct cutting-edge research into cryptocurrency technology that will dramatically enhance Dash Core Group’s ability to make better business development decisions.
- Dash has an existing relationship with ASU through the sponsorship of the Ira A. Fulton School of Engineering, and will benefit from synergies with the existing coursework there
- ASU will offer the coursework online, which will greatly expand availability of the courses globally versus other potential partners
To reiterate, Dash Core Group intends on partnering with the W. P. Carey School of Business to create coursework that would provide students with a proficiency in cryptocurrency. In the W. P. Carey School of Business, most certificate offerings require a student to take approximately 15-18 credit hours. Therefore, the creation of a new certificate program would entail five (5) to six (6) new courses to be developed. It costs roughly $25,000 to create a course and $25,000 to pay an adjunct professor to teach the course. We would use current Dash in our research budget in addition to the funds requested in this proposal to fund the development of the program. In terms of timing, the 5 courses are anticipated to all be developed and live by Fall 2019. The curriculum will be developed jointly between the Dash Core Group and the W. P. Carey School of Business.
Please note that once the course is created, the only funding needed would be to pay the instructor. There is no expectation that Dash will have to provide funding in the future. In order to sustain the certificate going forward, student enrollment and the associated course fees would pay for the instructors of the courses. Further, ASU is working on opening the coursework to the entire ASU student body which will maximize the reach of the course and contribute to its popularity. Additionally, the course will be available for students to take online (coursera).
ASU’s W. P. Carey School of Business will also brand a breakout study room as the Dash room.
Additional value to the network
By funding this proposal, Dash will be responsible for creating one of the world's first cryptocurrency focused programs at a major academic university. Along with this feat, comes exposure in the form of on and off campus advertising for the newly created certificate program. By enrolling in this program, students will attend lectures and complete coursework about the applications of Dash and other cryptocurrencies. As students graduate Arizona State University with this certificate, they’ll be equipped with the knowledge necessary to apply the technology in their future careers. As a product of work students complete, data will be collected, models created, and studies completed that Dash Core Group and other community projects can leverage for future use. The work completed from this program can be used not only as a tool for the Dash community but as an example for other academic universities to see the value in creating their own cryptocurrency program.
If you have additional questions, please direct them to @Alexander Chopan in the original Forum post.
Requested funding is as follows for the June 3rd budget cycle:
335.98 Dash ($130,000 USD @ $386.93 per Dash)
5.00 Dash reimbursement for the proposal cost
Total: 340.98 Dash
Note: Any unused budget will be applied toward future research expenses.
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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?
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Furthermore I am wondering when the DASH marketing department are going to actually learn the lesson of what we need to do to bring DASH mainstream.
The USA, Canada and the rest of the developed world is not the best place to be initially focusing our energy in marketing. We should be focusing our energy in the countries where there is no resistance to taking up DASH i.e. Venezuela and Africa.
Focus all our energy on those countries first. With focus we can convert those countries. Why are we diluting our energy and money on countries that are not ready for cypto?
Venezuela = Laws passed making crypto legal
USA = No clear laws on crypto. Laws are more biased against crypto than for crypto.
Venezuela = people want and need a solution to their currency crisis. Motivation high.
USA = don't need crypto . They have the USD. Look at Ben Swan's comments below his shows in youtube. The views don't want DASH.
Venezuela = Benefits to the people using crypto are unimaginably great solving their 15 year currency crisis. Enabling people to get back on their feet.
USA = Someone buys crypto no real measurable increase in quality of life = no high motivation at best a speculative investment.
Venezuela = real case users of DASH i.e using it as a day to day currency
USA = speculative investor. At best a hodler. More likely sells whenever there is a perceived better deal.
The list goes on an on as to why we should be focusing all our energies on Venezuela first and foremost.
We only have so much money and resources.
If we can't establish DASH in a country that desperately needs it, with a government that encourages it, with a law that made it legal to use it, where it will be used as a daily currency with no resistance to its uptake other than educating the people then what chance have we got getting DASH establish in a country that is actively against all these factors.
Why would we even waste one minute trying to get into a market that is infinitely more difficult than that of somewhere like Venezuela?
We don't need research to know where we should be investing to establish DASH. It is rather obvious and I'm just surprise that we keep getting projects put forward like this?
Voting no.
" These studies may include evaluation of market opportunities, short-term and long-term network economics, or the effectiveness Dash treasury proposals."
"Dash Core Group and the Dash network will benefit from the certificate program in two ways. First, we will gain valuable insights from the student research. Second, we will benefit from a pipeline of knowledgeable students for employment and internship opportunities."
The above two statements clearly state benefiting from the "research".
Secondly I wish to again point out again. These are students that have no real world practical business experience.
Thirdly as I have stated many times previously. This project is in the USA which is not the best place to be trying to establish cryptocurrency at this moment compared to other countries.
The course they are proposing is not even focused on DASH rather on "cryptocurrency" in general.
My argument is we have limited resources and this project would not have anywhere near as much impact as investing in a good project in Venezuela where we get a much greater return on investment.
Ask yourself if this project was raised by anyone else other than core would people vote for it? If not don't vote for it because it is a poor idea.
We need to start looking at core's proposals more closely. Many times they are making poor decisions and asking us to compensate for them. If we keep letting them off the hook just because of the word "core" then they are not going to improve and the DASH network is going to wasting funds unnecessarily on either projects that don't make sense or making up for their errors which are totally avoidable with better management decisions.
Core projects needs to be fairly assessed just as the same as any other project. Dishing out favours and making up for their mistakes, as we are in another proposal in this round of funding because Core did not convert DASH to USD at the time of being awarded the project.
Core need to start improving their management and stop thinking that we will compensating for them. They are using up funds and making poor decisions that would not be tolerated if it was any other proposal.
If core put forward a well thought out valuable proposal. I will vote for it if it is good. But when it is poor I will not vote just because it is core and I am surprised that everyone is not doing. Core is going to keep expecting us to rubber stamp whatever they put forward and therefore remain lax in their decisions. That breeds inefficiency and ultimately damages DASH as a whole.
Voting no because it is a poor idea funding people that have no real live business experience and the money can be used on more valuable project as I have demonstrated.
Cryptocurrency is the Wild West, it's burgeoning, emerging. The old rules of Business don't always apply. You can't be "experienced" in a relatively new field.
This project does not appear to be born out of a specific need that the DASH network have to solve now. It appears to be a project in which ASU are the main beneficiaries of the DASH funding.
Do we not now primarily need practical everyday users of DASH? Isn't that our primary objective? This can be achieved by investing in projects where that is happening now e.g. Venezuela. We only have a limited amount of funds. 341 DASH can do considerably more in Venezuela creating practical real users of DASH now rather than using this money to sponsor academic studies for students in an expensive university .
What do we want? Practical users of DASH now or do we want to extend a helping hand to ASU to set up a general cryptocurrency course for students? Which is a priority.
If people vote yes for this project what they are really saying is they think academic studies for future students at an expensive university are more important than establishing DASH as a practical working currency now.
Where is the focus of creating DASH as a practical working currency *today*?
We only have a very limited budget of funds. My view is we need to focus our energies and our money on establishing DASH primarily as a functional working currency *now*.
We can create DASH as a working currency but not if we keep having unfocused projects like this put forward by core time and time again.
I am sure there are many politically correct people here who want to get into the "good books" of the core team leaders by agreeing with whatever core puts forward. I am not one of those people.
I am simply stating honestly that this project is not a good use of our money right now. We need to focus our energy on establishing DASH as a working currency right *now* Not in years to come. And this type of project is simply diverting essential funds away from achieving that goal.
There is not a single industry that does not move forward without research. Research is essential to the development of every single field. The reason that there are literally over a dozen blockchain development jobs for every blockchain developer is because there aren't projects like this being funded. There are many talented, burgeoning young developers out there who might be very successful in this field if they got the push they needed to enter in to it as opposed to some other field. The more talented developers that enter this field, the more the field is enriched. "A rising tide lifts all boats." If Dash can be the ones tho facilitate this, and we are appropriately recognized as such and the only ones actively enriching--instead of merely profiting--from the academic side of this field, that builds an exposure and reputation that you don't get from an ad campaign.
This is an investment not only in the future of Dash, but in the future of our industry. You may not feel that this level of expenditure is reasonable for this purpose at this juncture. Fine. However, you need to understand why these kinds of projects should be funded in general. Our field, its technology, and its participants don't go anywhere without projects like this.
At the end I left research because I became disillusioned with academia. From my experience academia is was about advancing theoretical knowledge. It is rarely about advancing knowledge in a practical way that can actually benefit people in the real world. Unless there is a truly exceptional leader leading the research projects. I can recall only 2 leaders that were actually contributing to something tangible in the real world out of the dozens of teams and both of these leaders had business experience in their earlier lives. Most of the academics however do not have this experience and their projects were of little practical value.
If practical solutions are to be found form academia it is essential that a leader who has extensive practical experience (or business experience) lead the team or at least query the academics and steer the route of the research. If they are left to their own devices however it is unlikely that anything of practical value will be born.
You see, at least with the technical projects, I think we were hoping that ASU's study of the blockchain, would include studies of instant send and private send and whether or not using only 45% of the block reward for mining would all be as Ryan said, insignificant loss of security. Or that they would study ways to increase capacity. We don't even know what they've done with the funds we've already given them? It would be nice if we could get a link to write ups of their projects, or samples of papers written by the students?
It would actually behoove the university to add these courses and the fact that students will be paying for the classes is a direct funding for it. I don't see why they can't fund this themselves?
- I think this is something that ASU should already be incentivized to do on their own, as having a blockchain certificate program would be something that is in *extreme* demand. Why does ASU need funding from us?
- Why are we investing in a undergrad (or graduate?) talent pipeline, with courses starting in fall 2019, when we could instead hire among the best blockchain experts *right now* to work for Dash? IMO if we are going to fund research at all then we should be funding PhD level research, not undergrad research.
-These students in the pipeline have no obligation to work for Dash in the future. Most students are going to want to explore the wide open crypto space upon completion. It looks to me like this is a talent pipeline for the crypto industry, not for Dash.
- We have already funded the ASU Blockchain Research Laboratory, and ASU blockchain scholarships and blockchain course creation.
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Dash-and-ASU
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/asu-bc-lab-201707
Good feedback.
Why doesn’t ASU do this on their own?
- ASU could do this without Dash, and probably would eventually. They don’t “need” funding from us.
- Dash providing funding allows Dash to be a parter in shaping this effort long-term.
Why don’t we fund PhD research?
- We looked at PhD research options but didn’t find it feasible: the costs are higher and the amount of research you can sponsor is less. We would have to sponsor ~5 years of work for 1 student and professor
- (Unrelated: Separately, we are working with 1 PhD student who is doing research on Dash as a DAO and how it makes product decisions)
Why are we investing in talent pipeline? We aren’t :-)
- Our goal is not a talent pipeline.
- I agree w/ the comments here and in Discord that ultimately students will want to explore options beyond Dash
We have already funded the ASU blockchain Research lab and blockchain course creation
- These courses and that research are focused on the engineering side of how blockchains work (and this work has guided our efforts - ASU is prepping its work for publication, and it will be shared w/ the community)
- What we want to see out of the partnership with ASU business school is an expansion of thought on the finance side - cryptocurrency in the market, crypto economics and network effects, and decentralized organizations and business management.
- Regardless of what students do upon graduation, we believe we would benefit from the student research and projects.
Re: "Our goal is not a talent pipeline" -- The reason I brought it up is because "benefiting from a pipeline of knowledgeable students for employment and internship opportunities" is mentioned in the description as one of the two ways in which the Dash network would benefit from this proposal.
If the above point is being conceded, then the only remaining reason that is being presented to fund this proposal is "we will gain valuable insights from the student research." Maybe so? But if the goal is to gain insight from research, why spend 341 Dash to come up with a curriculum to have students do research starting in Fall 2019, when we could spend 341 Dash to have people who are already blockchain professionals do research, specifically for Dash, right now? For example, the folks at IOHK might be happy to do a research partnership.
This proposal basically amounts to advertising for Dash within ASU IMO. Hmmm?