Proposal “dash-adoption-tools2“ (Closed)Back

Title:Wall of Coins Dash Integration
Owner:rgenito
Monthly amount: 2334 DASH (388973 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (3 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2016-09-05 / 2016-12-19 (added on 2016-08-30)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 263 Yes / 404 No / 0 Abstain

Proposal description

Full proposal PDF:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/chddplecnxh9xed/dash-adoption-tools.pdf?dl=0
This proposal is to accelerate DASH Accessibility and Adoption in the Wall of Coins Integrated Platform: https://wallofcoins.com

UPDATE: a screen shot of the Project summary page from the spreadsheet budget estimate: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s158/sh/ff503bf1-c582-4b06-946f-1e76ec67a444/d73afc416a3164bf309ecda4a6ff868e

To quote Evan Duffield on the dash.org forum: "Off Exchange Trading - OTC: ...it will be required that we exchange Dash for fiat, because of pre-existing requirements for how we pay certain expenses. To protect the markets from excessive volatility we would like to create an OTC market for Dash." https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/budget-proposal-promotion-reimbursement-core-team.6006/

This Wall of Coins Dash integration proposal will do exactly that: bring Dash to an already established OTC market. Wall of Coins is a very different platform, and there are no other market exchanges as useful and powerful to adoption. Wall of Coins integrating Dash is a sizable project with many benefits to the entire Dash ecosystem.

Here is the Description and Goal statement taken directly from the PDF proposal: "We aim to boost Dash adoption. Today, Dash stands as much less accessible than Bitcoin, and most of the time requiring the end user to jump through the bitcoin hoops to land on Dash. Genitrust will embed Dash into the entire Wall of Coins' (WOC) Accessibility & Adoption Integrated Platform experience that exists today for Bitcoin. By embedding Dash into WOC, we will grease the frictional path to enter and exit the Dash ecosystem, greatly reduced the difficulty faced by Dash newcomers, developers, and websites. Overall as a currency, Dash will have better accessibility and liquidity, better tools for creative Dash app developers, and a huge boost to adoption for the short- and long-term. This is Dash's opportunity to solidify its independence from Bitcoin."

In summary, here are key items that will be delivered:

  1. ´╗┐People who wish to buy Dash can buy instantly without the need to setup an account. For smaller amounts.
  2. Most buyer purchase amounts can be done anonymously without the need of any privacy-sensitive information.
  3. Dash new-comers, and even crypto currency new-comers, will have free access to live phone support and live chat support to learn about getting a Dash wallet, sending and receiving Dash, and buying Dash.
  4. Sellers can liquidate Dash for instant fiat in a peer-to-peer similar to Local Bitcoins, minus the pains: without the risk of identity theft, wasted time communicating with less serious buyers, a better Security Intelligence Layer to protect sellers from scammers and Man-in-the-Middle payment attacks, etc..
  5. The WOC API will integrate Dash entirely. This will allow app developers full access to the WOC platform's functionality and business back end. Developers will have huge leverage to creative opportunities for their end users and solve problems related to acquiring bitcoin, liquidate bitcoin, and easily "fund their account" once they begin with a 0 Dash balance.
  6. For example: Dash wallet can integrate the WOC API, providing its end users with the ability to acquire (to solve the initial “0 balance” issue) and liquidate Dash immediately at a nearby location. This is the simplest, proven, and most mature API exchange solution available, which will allow Dash wallet to earn commission revenues to support wallet development.
  7. The WOC Web Widget will integrate Dash entirely. Website developers can then copy-paste exchange functionality directly into their website. For example, an exchange such as Poloniex can accept local fiat payments for people to fund their Poloniex accounts with Dash. Another example: web pages like Backpage.com and Wikileaks.org can use the widget to accept instant remote cash donations delivered to them in Dash.
  8. For businesses, Genitrust's business backend will apply the 100% Rapid Cold Storage solution to Dash. No coins will ever be stored in a hot wallet, and withdrawals are just as fast a multisig hot wallets.
  9. Wall of Coins will also remain 100% transparent with Dash deposits. This is our practice to prove solvency and exchange honesty: https://deposits.wallofcoins.com ´╗┐

Proposal should we NOT use all of the budget, or if the Dash price should skyrocket:

This is always a likely scenario. I pledge that should the Dash price raise, or if the project has left-over Dash, our development team will integrate the Wall of Coins experience and API directly into the Dash-QT wallet, other Dash wallets, and we will integrate for any websites or apps that want help with integration. We will do this until any surplus is depleted! :)

I'm happy to answer all questions, and plan to make myself available with scheduled Google Hangout chat times. In the mean time, you can read the detailed PDF proposal here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/chddplecnxh9xed/dash-adoption-tools.pdf?dl=0

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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2 points,9 months ago
WOW just wow. First off, we already have this https://www.dash.org/direct-purchase/
and secondly this is only for USA, I tryed exit node hopping on theyr site and there are no "Payment Centers" in the other locations. spoke to the support and they dont even have UK or Germany "inventory" like she said.

Furthermore.

This is not something that the blockchain should be sponsoring. It will happen naturally like the companys in the direct-purchase link. There is money to be made doing this and sponsoring one company to develop theyr infrastructure is in my opinion not fair to the other companys who are in the same business.

This will be done without this crazy proposal.
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1 point,9 months ago
Whos going to do it? Ira Miller? Daniel?
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0 points,9 months ago
Genitrust, Inc. will do this; I'll be working on the project.
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0 points,9 months ago
This is not only for the USA. This is worldwide. Furthermore, this is not a proposal to develop our infrastructure. Our infrastructure is already well developed, has full security review, and has been in solid business for 2+ years.
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2 points,9 months ago
yeah, still voting no. I think that if the blockchain is going to sponsor anything like this it must be opensourced and built to be integrated into with all platforms that offer this service. Not just your company.
something all of these could pick up and integrate with ease https://plusbitcoin.net/buy-bitcoins-with-bank-account/
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4 points,9 months ago
It seems to me Wall of Coins is a centralized service. Doe this proposal plan to create the Dash integration so that Wall of coins can adopt it and make it part of their services?

Is this proposal to create a new service for Dash? If so, who would run it?

I personally don't want to fund a centralized service. However, if this were to be integrated into the Dash Network, run with the DAPI, I might consider it. Otherwise, as a centralized service, I don't agree with funding a start up, even if you don't plan on making money for all the services you plan to provide. This is something that, in my opinion, and if funded, should be run by the foundation as a non-profit, but we don't have the man power.

Yes, I voted for that ill fated fiat exchange proposal earlier this year. It was a colossal failure at a fraction of the cost of this proposal - on both sides - and I won't make that mistake again. This needs outside funding, outside investors in my opinion.
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1 point,9 months ago
Finally, why isn't any of this information clear? I only see a "sales pitch" and no substance. It raises red flags to me.
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0 points,9 months ago
There's a TON of information that could go into this. Ask any question, and I will happily answer! :)
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0 points,9 months ago
What do you think the entire ATM program is? A start up funded by Dash to make Dash ATM's with Ira Miller at the helm.... Where were those concerns then?
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0 points,9 months ago
Who's going to run it? Didn't you read the proposal? They are providing live phone support for new users and live chat. How much is THAT worth?
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1 point,9 months ago
Nothing if this is a centralized entity that we're supposed to provide the startup funding for.
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1 point,9 months ago
err wait... it is quite valuable for a company to basically be a "dash hotline". We've helped thousands of people by being a "bitcoin hotline".
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1 point,9 months ago
Btw, the company is not a "startup".
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1 point,9 months ago
As opposed to funding a centralized startup that claimed they were going to integrate Dash into ATMs? By the way, they are not a startup. They have been in operation for 2 years. So now how much is live phone and chat support worth to help the noobs get into Dash?
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-1 point,9 months ago
It's all politics man... you gotta be cozy w/ core to get any project of real value approved..
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-1 point,9 months ago
97$ per month http://www.hirewithease.com/hr-support/
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5 points,9 months ago
This proposal is insane, There isn't even a break down on how the funds will be spent? This is an insane amount of money for a completely unknown person, how can anyone vote yes?
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1 point,9 months ago
You guys vote yes blindly all the time, why stop now? Where is this sense of outrage on all the other non deliverable type things we've been paying for elsewhere? Where is your complaints on ATM's? Legal blackholes? Anything? Or do you just target 3rd parties with your "opinions"?
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0 points,9 months ago
I posted a break down on how the funds will be spent. I can upload more details after the business day.
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-1 point,9 months ago
Wallofcoins.com is similar to shapeshift.io - right? How much did shapeshift get paid from the Dash community to integrate Dash? I don't know, but I think it is a legitimate question.
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1 point,9 months ago
Wallofcoins.com is not similar to shapeshift.io in any "shape" or form. However, Wall of Coins does have a comprehensive API and web widget for developers to easily integrate our services.
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6 points,9 months ago
WOC is a privately owned P2P market (http://tinyurl.com/z42mg2b) with a comparable small volume of 500 BTC in 30d (Another one is BitSquare.io):
https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/exchanges/USD/30d

And without the P2P thing there are maybe hundrets of market places around. What make WOC so special and profitable for DASH that the development of a DASH integration should be payd by the community? Localbitcoins has a monthly turnover of 45000BTC.
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0 points,9 months ago
What makes Wall of Coins special (compared to the services you mentioned) is its API and web widget, giving many developers a DASH revenue opportunity to develop app services that support DASH. This isn't possible anywhere else.

And I believe the only reason why you're talking about bitcoin volume is because DASH adoption mostly depends on bitcoin volume. Wall of Coins (WOC) will allow people to adopt DASH *without* having to also adopt bitcoin. With Dash integrated (just as Bitcoin is now), the experience to acquire DASH on WOC will be vastly easier than anywhere else--you don't even need a wallet because our live phone support will help you get a wallet setup. This integration will sever DASH's reliance on bitcoin.

This is POWERFUL!
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2 points,9 months ago
WOC also only available in the US. This makes it less attractive as a place to spend these money for the global Dash system imho.
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0 points,9 months ago
Well now that certainly isn't true at all. My dad himself uses it in Mexico. Where did you come up with that?
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1 point,9 months ago
From the FAQ on the site:
Does Wall of Coins work outside of the USA?
Soon! :)
As we all know, "soon" on a website usually means "we would like to, but we are unable to do any time planning, so in reality: never"

Anyway, their website is very opaque. I live in Europe. If I click the Buy link, for example, I am merely told "Sorry, there are no banks or payment centers near you!". That's rather unhelpful when it doesn't say A) How they determine my location B) How far away I am from a location (1 mile? 100 miles? 1000 miles?). However, since the FAQ also states that they don't currently work outside the US (although "soon smiley"), everything seemed to point to them not being available outside of the US.
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0 points,9 months ago
Just like any p2p system, we need a seller near you (or with a "cash account" near you) in order to make that happen.
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0 points,9 months ago
Forgive us for not having an updated FAQ...we're more interested in other platforms using our API and web widget :)
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1 point,9 months ago
Is there a LocalBitcoins integration proposal that I wasn't aware of?
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0 points,9 months ago
not as I know - I just made this comparison to show how insane this proposal is
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0 points,9 months ago
Comparing us to LocalBitcoins isn't that great of a comparison at all. It's a horrible analogy, actually.
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0 points,9 months ago
I just wanted to note that some are suggesting that there is an ultimatum: either we fund Wall of Coins or we fund Legal (Sept). This is not true. Wall of Coins will not fund, regardless of whether Legal (Sept) will fund.

In order for WoC to pass, it would have to bump the following already approved proposals:

Legal (this one) with 393 net votes
Community Outreach with 406 net votes
Dash to Adoption with 420 net votes
Slack Tipbot with 534 net votes
Evolution Development Subcontractors with 541 net votes
PR Fall Campaign with 641 net votes

That means Wall of Coins would have to achieve 641 net votes to pass, in only three days.
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1 point,9 months ago
I made a typo. I should have said:

In order for WoC to pass, it would have to bump the following already unapproved proposals:

Legal (this one) with 393 net votes
Community Outreach with 406 net votes

It would also have to bump the following APPROVED proposals:

Dash to Adoption with 420 net votes
Slack Tipbot with 534 net votes
Evolution Development Subcontractors with 541 net votes
PR Fall Campaign with 641 net votes
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5 points,9 months ago
I'd like to point out that this is over $80,000, NOT the $27,000 posters keep referencing. There are three payments of ~$27,100 at current prices.
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1 point,9 months ago
Sorry Ryan. On the Android app, it's hard to tell how many installments the proposal includes. $80,000 is even worse!!
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3 points,9 months ago
This proposal is for 7002 DASH total over three months. Color me cynical, but I think OP would like to setup 7 masternodes. I tell you what, how about 2 masternodes, and you can keep the future income from them as perpetual payments. You'll have taken part in building the Dash legacy. If you can hang onto the MNs, you'll be set for life. Let's make a deal here!
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0 points,9 months ago
No thanks, I care more about Dash adoption than I care about having nodes to myself.
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1 point,9 months ago
Who owns or runs "Wall of Coins"? Is it open source? Is it Peer to Peer?

It seems to me that Wall Of Coins is a service, a type of exchange. Do you propose that they run this when it's finished?

If not, who will run this centralized service?
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0 points,9 months ago
Genitrust, Inc owns Wall of Coins. Genitrust will continue to operate it with DASH enabled.
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1 point,9 months ago
This is expensive, but amazing. Your proposal hits upon our most dire pain points explicitly. We've been talking-the-talk of "fiat on-ramps" for almost a year now. Your proposal *actually* addresses it. Voting yes.
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0 points,9 months ago
Thank you n00bkid, I appreciate that you can see this.
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2 points,9 months ago
Doesn't $26,000 seem like a lot of money to give a newcomer?
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4 points,9 months ago
At the current Dash price (($11.63 x 2234) x3 payments) total funding will cost $77,944. They need to be doing a lot of volume to make this kind of expense worth it.
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1 point,9 months ago
Thank you--I typed this from the app and it's hard to see the number of payments.
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0 points,9 months ago
Check out the newly posted screen shot of the project resources spread sheet. It's indeed a project, and developers don't work for free, ya know? I still understand where you're coming from. Some background information may be helpful: Wall of Coins has been in business for over 2 years, and the parent company Genitrust has been involved in bitcoin since 2010.
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2 points,9 months ago
> "... developers don't work for free, ya know?"

Many of us here are developers. And we don't exactly make huge salaries by contributing to Dash. Seems a bit of a condescending statement to me.

You say you've been in business over 2 years. Bitcoinity put out a warning saying that you didn't pay them for advertising and "treated them like a joke" -- did you have a rebuttal?
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0 points,9 months ago
Did you read bitcoinity's warning? After reading it, you'll know the answer to that. It's pretty simple: we paid Bitcoinity, and we only refused to pay a bitcoin address Bitcoinity supplied because their message was not GPG-signed, our requests to get verification for this were ignored, and all of our known ways to contact the Bitcoinity owner failed.
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2 points,9 months ago
No, developers definitely don't work for free. There are two issues here:

a) No disrespect, but you're pretty new to the community. A new member asking for $80,000 is likely to be problematic. That's a lot of money to trust you with, hoping that you are honest and do what you say.

b) There's the issue of prioritization. While Wall of Coins integration would probably be nice to have, that $80,000 can be spent in different areas for a far greater return.
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1 point,9 months ago
b) come to think about it, I cannot think of a better return for the Dash community for the short term *and* long term. Ultimately, the coin with the best user adoption experience is going to be the most popular. Normal people *hate* using bitcoin for a reason...
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0 points,9 months ago
a) no disrespect taken. i appreciate your direct, frank message! While I am a relatively new member to the dash community, that doesn't mean I don't have a background of trust.
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1 point,9 months ago
Like where?
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0 points,9 months ago
I personally can't see a more pressing thing to spend it on right now.
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4 points,9 months ago
I'm surprised you can't think of any better ways to spend $80,000?
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1 point,9 months ago
If I was in charge of making Dash successful, and I had 80k, I would spend it on getting people to be able to buy it with cash in a streamlined, user-friendly way.
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1 point,9 months ago
This is such an obvious need, money well allocated.
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2 points,9 months ago
Does this deliverable include InstantSend? "5.The WOC API will integrate Dash entirely. "
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3 points,9 months ago
yes.
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1 point,9 months ago
For YES votes: thank you! I'd love to hear what part of this you feel is most important for the Dash community. For NO votes: let me know what you'd like to see different...all input is much appreciated...thank you!
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0 points,9 months ago
I'd like to see a site that wasn't designed with Bootstrap for starters. Looks very newbie-ish.
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-1 point,9 months ago
I'm not sure what Dash needs most is slick CSS.
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2 points,9 months ago
I didn't say that Dash needs anything of the sort. But I wouldn't put a dime into a site that looks like it was hacked together via Bootstrap/Rails.

Especially after seeing the Bitcoinity non-payment warnings on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/46fziy/yikes_bitcoinity_psa_about_wall_of_coins/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46fwp5/bitcoinity_is_warning_about_wall_of_coins/
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1 point,9 months ago
What's wrong with bootstrap? The only people so far that complain about the site design are developers familiar with bootstrap. The reality is that buyers and sellers don't care about this: they're happy that the service is easy to use, *consistently reliable*, and helps them to acquire or liquidate bitcoin easily. Dash users will be just as pleased and happy.

That's not to say that we aren't investing in a design upgrade :) Thanks for the input.
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2 points,9 months ago
Ah, old rumors die hard. He absolutely paid in full. He requested the GPG keys to prove identity first, which was ignored. It's all since been sorted, but you know Reddit...people can say incorrect things and it stays up forever.
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1 point,9 months ago
How much volume does wall of coins enable? What potential market size are we talking about? How much of bitcoin volume /segment exposure does it bring for this amount of money?
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0 points,9 months ago
here you can see the monthly volume, you can find WOC on the bottom https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/exchanges/USD/30d#rank_desc
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2 points,9 months ago
How much volume does wall of coins enable? Any amount of volume.

What potential market size are we talking about? This is a good question, I am still researching this market myself. I'm sold on the technology; the rest of my research has just been the cherry on top.

How much of bitcoin volume /segment exposure does it bring for this amount of money? I believe this will be the first p2p OTC market for Dash, which that alone is pretty significant for helping Dash with the biggest problems all cryptocurrencies face: adoption. Whatever bitcoin volume is being absorbed due to buyers (and traders) looking to acquire Dash, that volume will not need to be added to the bitcoin ecosystem; people will be able to acquire and liquidate DASH without relying on bitcoin.

Speaking of bitcoin, one thing that is true about bitcoin--and nearly all cryptos--is that they ALL depend on multiple applications just to simply "do money". This API, along with the Dash development community developing on top of the API, can simplify the Dash experience for everyone. People won't have to jump from this wallet, to this exchange, to trade with this cryptocurrency pair, to send to another wallet, etc. etc....

Ps: thank you for asking!
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1 point,9 months ago
What is Wall of Coins daily trading volume and how many people use your site on a daily basis?
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0 points,9 months ago
We have nearly 100 new signups daily, and our volume is typically around 30 XBT daily--at times greater and higher than 100 XBT, and at times less. While one can look at the value of WOC/DASH integration from a stand point of how "popular" WOC is, what I believe is more valuable is what we offer and make possible for the DASH ecosystem.
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1 point,9 months ago
I don't think you answered the question as intended. I think perhaps the question meant, what is the current volume that Wall of Coins has?
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0 points,9 months ago
I believe August 2016 will be ~500 XBT.
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0 points,9 months ago
Here's for the USA: https://wallofcoins.com/api/public/v1/orderBook/BTC/USD/
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0 points,9 months ago
Oh I forgot one more:

4: Because of InstantSend integration, this makes it possible to buy Dash with cash far faster than Bitcoin. This could actually REVERSE the trend of people buying Bitcoin and converting to Dash, making them buy Dash first, then convert to Bitcoin as necessary.
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-2 points,9 months ago
I think this is a really good idea for the following reasons:

1: This offers a huge and immediate advantage over virtually all non-Bitcoin cryptocurrencies (including Monero). I was up late last night trying to help a friend find a secure way of getting XMR, and it was hard because there's no service that lets you get it with cash. A Wall of Coins integration would give Dash fungibility and put it ahead of the pack in the privacy game.

2: This gets Dash in people's hands without going through Bitcoin, which establishes legitimacy and permanence instead of being "just another altcoin" that goes through the "real" cryptocurrency.

3: This could easily lead to a domino effect of integration with other services (such as LocalBitcoins for example). Business responds to consumer demand and competition, and if people are buying and selling Dash like crazy on another service, the rest of the market won't want to miss out.
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