Proposal “core-pr-201807“ (Closed)Back

Title:Core Team Public Relations (July)
Owner:glennaustin
One-time payment: 195 DASH (29445 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 195 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-06-18 / 2018-07-17 (added on 2018-06-05)
Votes: 806 Yes / 183 No / 11 Abstain

Proposal description

@bradley-zastrowThis proposal is cross-posted from https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-core-team-public-relations-july.38536/

Proposal background
This proposal seeks funding for continuing our current public relations contract with Wachsman. The current contract restarted at the beginning of April and runs through the end of June.  We intend on renewing the contract for the 3rd quarter (covering July, August and September).

This proposal seeks $60,0000 of which $45,000 is required to cover the expense for the contract period and $15,000 is intended as a small buffer to account for risk due to currency fluctuation.  This buffer is necessary as we have completely depleted the funds in our public relations budget and need the funds to ensure that we will meet our contractual obligations.   

In our last public relations proposal, we provided the Dash community with a detailed view into our relationship with Wachsman and the services they provide to us.  The link to that proposal can be found here: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-core-team-public-relations-may.36365/
As in the past, our contract with Wachsman will be short-term (3 months) so we can re-evaluate our relationship on a periodic basis to determine whether they are the right fit for Dash at each stage of our evolution.
If you have additional questions, please direct them to @fernando

Edit:
Wachsman accomplishments YTD 2018 can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bDoz9FpuMgizXYPCUxhFhKpFKixyKxfh/view?usp=sharing

The following language is the commentary around all the accomplishments listed in the shared document provided by Bradley Zastrow, Head of Business Development for Dash:

1) Wachsman has helped organize all conference related tasks at 12 separate events in 8 countries. These have included strategising, contacting journalists, meticulously preparing for interviews, arranging speaking engagements, negotiating booth placement, merchandise production and logistics, and booth designs, negotiations, and much more.

2) They have also secured 180+ media placements (articles/tv appearances), 30 of which are mainstream media and the remaining 134 of them are with cryptocurrency industry related media agencies. In addition, Wachsman has also secured 30 Q&A/Interviews/thought pieces. These media appearances include Forbes, Fox Business, Business Insider, Reuters, and Fortune among many others. The results of a recently completed week-long media tour in New York included additional mainstream publications which plan to publish articles within the next 3-4 weeks.

Edit:
@fernando and @tungfa have been supporting the funding of this proposal and you can find their remarks sprinkled throughout the comments section.  I have edited this proposal with comments posted by Fernando regarding our relationship with Wachsman:

1- Dash is a project that we have been immensely proud to represent since we commenced our partnership in 2016, and the Dash Core Team have consistently received top care and consideration since we began working together. We service Dash Core directly, but we have always tried to our best to provide above and beyond Public Relations support to help Dash grow, including serving the best interests of Dash community members, and Dash Masternode owners. We consider ourselves lifelong partners of Dash, and have continually dedicated more staff and resources onto the Dash account as time has progressed. 

2- Wachsman executes earned Public Relations, and Events Management support for Dash. We do not carry out marketing, advertising, or pay for play media opportunities. We have limited social media capability, but as noted in some of the comments, that is an area of improvement and we will be sure to include far more Dash mentions on Wachsman’s social profiles. Earned Public Relations means we use our comprehensive database of media contacts to find and pitch interesting story ideas to reporters, podcasters, bloggers, writers and broadcasters. We connect these contacts with key members of the Dash Core Team, and train such spokespersons on how best to get Dash messaging and positive narratives across. We also provide our media contacts with quotes from key Dash Core Team members when news breaks, to keep Dash in the media landscape.

3- We have worked tirelessly to shift the Dash narrative away from the project’s privacy functionality, and that narrative is slowly shifting in our favor. It does take time, and it will take even more time, but we have spent an inordinate amount of time educating reporters on the other incredible value adds that Dash possesses.

4- One often overlooked function of a good PR firm, particularly one in the fintech space, is how they assist clients in complex crises. Wachsman has a comprehensive damage mitigation protocol in place so that the reputation of Dash, its leaders, and its partners are held in the most positive light at possible. 

Recent examples of this include the Miami networking incident, as well as the spate of threat intelligence reports that came out in February/March falsely labeling Dash as a leading dark web market alternative (continuing the privacy coin narrative). 

5- We are open to media ideas from Dash community members and masternode owners, something Fernando has mentioned in the proposal forum. A big challenge to storytelling in general, as numerous conversations with reporters have revealed, is that the bar for coverage only increases by the day because they need to prioritize their limited time and resources. Dash’s decentralized governance structure is one of the biggest reasons why we believe it’s going to be around for the long-term, and the projects/community efforts it enables set it apart from every other project in the industry today. However, as many MNOs have pointed out, Dash Core is *not* Dash, but a part of the broader Dash community. Prioritizing ways we can all better collaborate on Dash Core & community storytelling will help these efforts, especially as most top-tier reporters require a certain level of access/exclusive insight into projects from the community itself.

==============

A quantitative breakdown of coverage/mentions secured as a result of Wachsman outreach since January 1, 2018:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pcd0jVWa8hZbMNGiRNAV1TyK1pBONC_Xr6qby0aeqJE/edit?usp=sharing

-In the monthly breakdown tab, we have highlighted Dash Force News links; while they technically are included in our final tally, that's solely for consistency in the tallying process and not what we internally consider "earned coverage"

-We have also included an events tab highlighting conferences we've supported this year, and the areas that we directly supported

==============

A snapshot of coverage data from Meltwater that was pulled this morning for January 1 - June 8, 2018:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UC-0MI_BWpD6_Xzj_q11OzbCDQOwzLlBOAcYVMbGid0/edit?usp=sharing

While this snapshot includes both Wachsman coverage and organic mentions/price analysis of Dash, we think it is still a useful snap shot of general coverage trends for H1 2018

Requested funding is as follows for the July 2nd budget cycle:
190.00 Dash ($60,000 USD @ $315.771 per Dash)
5.00 Dash proposal fee reimbursement
Total: 195.00 Dash

Note: Any unused budget will be applied toward future public relations expenses.

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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3 points,1 month ago
Let's just get this through, and discuss our options. Core has heard the message delivered here, that can be seen by the comments.
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-1 point,1 month ago
Since when has Core cared what the MNOs want? They are given their funding regardless.
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10 points,1 month ago
That’s just not true. Core have had proposals rejected in the past, and I’m sure it’ll happen in the future too.

Walter
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8 points,1 month ago
voted yes so as to not put cores effort in jeopardy, but i would like to have our own in house PR.

A DAO as mentioned that reports to MNO and can help the community in getting the word out for diff projects within Dash that are happening in social media, TV and radio. A PR firm that can help in grassroots efforts and build media connections.

Wachsmann, u own your own employability. Make sure your stakeholders know of the value u add. MNO are stakeholders as well.

My guess is that most business that start around dash will be MNO at some point if they arent already. You cant ignore those kind of people, that are working on the ground level to acquire and make use of dash.

You should at least be available for conversations/support with MNOs...
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3 points,1 month ago
I think enough has been said, in summary, if you voted no, change your vote to YES.
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1 point,1 month ago
I haven't heard anything to change my mind. We are told they do PR and not marketing but when asked to produce a list of things they have performed it is a list of marketing efforts that consist of a handful of press releases picked up by two-bit crypto desks that don't move the needle at all. We need a market research and a disciplined group that is excited to represent our project. This outfit is only excited about cashing our checks.

If you voted yes, you should change it to no.
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4 points,1 month ago
Even if all they do is provide media coaching to the core team, set up conference booths and send out press releases, those things are still worthwhile. I did think Ryan had beein doing a great job in his media interviews and now we know why - because Wachsmann is coaching him.

Core team is under enough pressure already - by all means fund another agency to do marketing/PR, but pulling the rug out from underneath Core when they say Wachsmann is performing important functions for them would be inflicting damage on ourselves.
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2 points,1 month ago
Well said.
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4 points,1 month ago
At this point in time our primary goal is to ensure that Core succeed in delivering what they need to. If they fail, then we all fail. If Core said they need Waschman and firing them at this point will be detrimental then why shoot ourselves in the foot. We can still get another PR company on the side whilst Waschman still does communication and event support.
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-6 points,1 month ago
Such centralization.
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5 points,1 month ago
How is it centralization when I said we can get another PR firm on the side in the mean time. geez, hows about you use some logic instead of wanting blood.
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1 point,1 month ago
I rather centralization than failure.

There currently is no team to compete with Core. So if Core stumbles and they can’t deliver, or if they deliver very late, Dash will fail.

Idealism only goes so far and sometimes compromises need to be made. Plus, even if this passes over 50% of the. budget will still be going towards other projects. That is decentralized effort given the tight budget.
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-5 points,1 month ago
At least you're honest that Core has centralized this project. Good on you, mate.
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1 point,1 month ago
your comments here do NOT make any sense - sure Nay sayers always will !
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4 points,1 month ago
I am starting to believe you do not care about Dash but just to criticize in a such bad manner.
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2 points,1 month ago
That's really just not true, or at least only half true. They did list some of the articles for which they were at least in part responsible--and almost everyone agrees this aspect of their efforts was lackluster--but Core has also described their excellence in their other functions in supporting and facilitating Core's other efforts at conferences, business development, integrations, etc. So they have, in fact, done what Core has said they have done, you're just prioritizing what they have not done as well over what they have done well as the deciding factor.
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1 point,1 month ago
You got a good point Arthyron. Core has been doing a great job and if they say Wachsman is required for them, we should believe them.

To cut what Core team needs does not make sense.
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-3 points,1 month ago
100 yes votes in a night. Dash is so decentralized.
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2 points,1 month ago
Welp, dropping a quarter of a million dollars to troll Dash...that's dedication to the craft, I must say.
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5 points,1 month ago
It is. You can buy as much masternodes as you want and vote as you want. Whether for an unclear reason you want more NO votes, so buy more masternodes and vote as you want. You can see that just less of than 25% of masternodes has voted, but the remain 75% can also vote at the time they want (but not when you want).

I do not see nothing weird here, but your kind of comments. If you do not like DASH, you can get out and buy any other altcoin, which I believe it will be a big mistake for you.
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1 point,1 month ago
Votes typically come in near the deadline. Nothing unusual here...
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-2 points,1 month ago
If you don't think Core owns MNs, you're in for a real wake up call
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1 point,1 month ago
According to the MN analytics so far, based on voting patterns, it's highly unlikely that any member(s) of Core own enough MNs to hold any meaningful sway over the votes. No doubt some of them do, but most don't. Even if they had secret meetings where they all coordinated their votes, it wouldn't matter. Some people just believe that the proposal should be funded when you don't, but you're not even acting in good faith at this point if you ever were.
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1 point,1 month ago
I never said they didn’t own any.

What is wrong with Core owning masternodes?
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-6 points,1 month ago
Large stake in MNs, 50% of treasury goes back to large stake in MNs. Its what every FUD critic says about our project. Core appears to be proving the critics right.
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8 points,1 month ago
Lol. That statement without proof has little merit.

It seems to me that the vote is not going your way so now you blame evil Core and their centralized, “large stake” in MNs. This could easily be a group of smaller holders voting near the deadline.
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4 points,1 month ago
Always interesting to see someone end up butchering their own carefully build-up reputation, when things dont go their way.
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4 points,1 month ago
Indeed. Bringing up the ‘centralised’ FUD argument is ridiculous.

Walter
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-7 points,1 month ago
Is it really? Be honest with yourself. Just the once.
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6 points,1 month ago
Well, let’s be honest, the top 10 cryptos in the rankings - that you bang on about- are littered with far more centralised currencies..

To argue that Dash isn’t doing well because it’s PR is really bad, then to switch and say dash is doing bad because it’s ‘centralised’ is a complete non sequitur.

You’re saying that Dash market cap is suffering because of bad PR? Or is it because we’re centralised? Or both?

Clue: centralised projects are beating us in the market cap stakes. So it can’t be both...

You’re basically creating a false narrative to back up your shoddy argument that bad PR is the sole reason for our market cap decline.

It just doesn’t make sense.

Walter
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-5 points,1 month ago
And it could not be. I didn't get into crypto for faith based projects.
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4 points,1 month ago
Wow, you are really off the reservation at this point with all this religion stuff. Prove your incendiary statements, that’s all I’m asking.

Btw: It may indeed be Core voting. Don’t know and don’t care. They brought their MNs fair and square just like the rest of us —and thus they shouldn’t be precluded from
the voting process.

Look — the MNs vote. No matter who they are. Period. Those are the rules in Dash.

There are other cryptos to get into if you prefer a different set of rules.
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1 point,1 month ago
Well said!
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-5 points,1 month ago
Joining a church is a lot cheaper for that.
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1 point,1 month ago
why don't you ; )
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4 points,1 month ago
There is seems to be a misunderstanding between MNO here, it should be clear that MNO vote no because, they can see or here anything what Wachsman does.

Wachsman does PR for Dash Core okay great, that does mean that Wachsman works in a vacuim right now Wachsman needs to PR to use why Dash Core needs them. Why aren't they ? You can't not call a silent PR firm a proper firm if there not even stating there case here.

Maybe what Wachsman does is so great is make Dash Core believe there doing a good job. I really don't know.

I would say Wachsman start with a copy past with the list of things you have done for Dash Core, redact info if need be.

I am sorry to say I can't add things up when there are to many unknown variables. So if Wachsman wants the job just do some PR right here right now.
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4 points,1 month ago
I'm curious why in the list of what they have done there are at least six articles written by Dash Force News. They have their own proposal. Funny how Wachsman is taking credit for others work. Bad sign.
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4 points,1 month ago
In their notes to that report, they explicitly say that they have colored the DFN articles in yellow because those can't really be counted as their achievements, even if they are reporting on a press release than Wachsman sent them (and that is why they are in the list).
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2 points,1 month ago
Actually DFN are pissed off at Wachsman because they keep forgetting to include them in press releases. I don't know why unless Wachsman is giving exclusives to others? But certainly, DFN should be included always, and they promised to do so. I don't know how that is going. That list is only for interviews and press releases, though, which is not the extent of what Wachsman does for Dash.
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1 point,1 month ago
The problem with DFN was a long ago (I'd say more than a year, but I could be wrong). Wachsman sent some press releases manually and accidentally skipped DFN. DFN complained to us and Wachsman changed the process so errors like that one didn't happen again. As far as I know, it has not happened again and DFN is usually one of the first ones to report on almost every press release than Wachsman sends.
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3 points,1 month ago
I have never received one press release from wachsman since I started DFN over a year ago. Joel and Mark have repeatedly sent them my DFN contact info to no avail. I believe Tungfa sent them my info too, or was asked to. I gave up asking and don't care anymore. As long as Joel or Mark get them I won't complain.
I do receive press releases from our other partners.
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1 point,1 month ago
I'll look into it. I've been repeatedly told that DFN was receiving the press releases and I see the articles you publish on them, so I assumed that was the case. Probably you are right and they are being sent to Joel and Mark, but if you want them, you should be getting them too.
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-3 points,1 month ago
But they have cited you in their list...have they fudged that? Alarm bells are ringing.
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1 point,1 month ago
The only alarm bell ringing is that we have a troll MNO in our midst. Hint: it's you.
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1 point,1 month ago
Ha! Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Look I want the best for this project, and passively agreeing to whatever Core wants is not how I see success coming about. In any real corporation shareholders often make demands in change of strategy and leadership. The real test for this project is if we can hold proposal owners like Core accountable. This makes the project a sound one. Without that than we are no better than most. I'm doing my part. This is not trolling, this is what an activist investor does.
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2 points,1 month ago
If this proposal is rejected I see amazing strength from that. It means that the project is working as intended and does have a functioning DAO. The community is clearly upset at Wachsman's performance and this would demonstrate the power of our system. I look forward to seeing Marketing and PR firms advertise themselves to the DAO next for funding. Capitalism at work. Its poetry.
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1 point,1 month ago
The main question I am asking myself right now
Which of the 2 proposals has delivery the most ?
1) Venezuela convergences and very thing that comes with it ?
2) Wachsman ?

Side question, in what way will this slow down Dash it's development progress (which needs to have absolute priority).
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1 point,1 month ago
It slows down integrations, which are sometimes necessary for inclusions, such as Bitgo for (possible) inclusion in coinbase, which I am hoping will be the case?? https://www.dashcentral.org/p/bitgo-dash-implementation
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6 points,1 month ago
There seems to be a general misunderstanding about who Wachsman works for....

Wachsman PR works for Dash Core Inc and it's quite obvious that they have the job because they work very well with the Dash core team and are invaluable to their business development efforts in particular. Ryan et al have made this quite clear. I hear arguments that Dash Core and Wachsman are "too close personally". Why should it be a problem that Dash Core Inc have a good personal relationship with their PR contractor?

Furthermore, Wachsman have not done any work for the Dash community because they are NOT contracted to work for the Dash community. I don't understand why people struggle to get their heads around this? Wachsman DOES NOT WORK FOR THE DASH COMMUNITY. It works as a direct support for Dash Core Inc. and are contracted in this manner. Wachsman have not made themselves available for community members who have requested their attention because THEY ARE ONLY CONTRACTED to work for Dash Core Inc. I'm not sure how many other ways I can say this?

I see arguments such as "we seem to be paying a lot for a job that provides very little results - at least if there are results - they are not visible to anyone but certain members of Core team." - Correct, they're not visible to the community because Wachsman DOES NOT WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY and has no obligation to update the community. It's contract is with Dash Core Inc.

The MNO's need to seriously consider the reasons why they wish to defund Dash Core Inc. with regards to PR budget. At the moment it seems like a mob has formed calling for Wachsman's head with little to no consideration of the opinions expressed by Core team or the impact that this will have on Dash Core Inc's plans going forwards.

If the MNOs wish to cut Dash Core Inc. off at the legs then so be it.. But don't underestimate the negative fallout of doing so. You are effectively setting up Dash Core Inc's business development efforts to suffer a huge setback during the next 12 months whilst Dash Core Inc goes through the exhaustive process of finding a new PR partner to build a relationship with.

Walter
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3 points,1 month ago
And as a MNO, I don't see how you can want to take away any of our main project center's tools, which they say are invaluable. Why would you want to handicap the team, the most important section of DASH at this time in history? It makes absolutely no sense. We have always had ignorant trolls but please try to see what this is really about, what Wachsman does, and why they are important to the Dash Core Team. Don't handicap core at this important time in history.
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4 points,1 month ago
It's madness, fair enough if Core Inc were grumbling about the service they are getting as part of their agreement with Wachsman, but Core Inc are happy with the the solution they currently have. I don't get it.

Also, with regards to 'sending a message'.... This whole macho 'put core in it's place' and 'show them who's boss' kind of rhetoric needs to stop too. It doesn't achieve anything and no good will come of it. Core knows it's place and has been very respectful of the network throughout the lifetime of the project.

In fact, I can't think of an instance where Dash Core Inc has gone against the network consensus? So this whole asserting dominance thing is just bizarre from some MNOs.

Walter
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0 points,1 month ago
We will not pay for projects that produce no results and if Core doesn't see that then they need a wake up call. We are their board of directors and they answer to us just as Wachsman answers to them. We are not here to rubber stamp everything they want. Core has never acknowledged that Dash has a problem informing the public about its benefits nor offered a solution for how to fix it and I am really sick and tired of people like you making excuses for their incompetence with PR. They do a good job with software and business development and have no trouble getting funding for those projects from the network because we see results.
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3 points,1 month ago
You are confusing PR with marketing. PR isn’t about promoting products/services and their benefits, and even if it was it isn’t going to help us at the moment as we don’t have a product!

You talk about promoting the benefits of Dash as if there really are any at the moment?? Customers don’t care about the governance and two tier system, they want a killer app like evo. Until then your argument is kind of acadaemic.

What you’re actually asking for is better marketing and brand management, but it’s kind of been a difficult few months whilst we were still deciding on our new branding and logo.. ? it’s difficult to market a brand when you don’t know what it’s logo will look like, and more importantly - there is no product anyway!

Anyway, stick one in the eye of Dash Core Inc. for having the temerity to quietly get on with the business of putting solid foundations in place for a full product launch early next year.

Walter
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0 points,1 month ago
I never said promote, those are your words not mine, I said inform. PR is news articles and interviews and Wachsman has done a terrible job regarding these things therefore I stand by what I said.
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1 point,1 month ago
Also, have you all read the list of what they've done?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bDoz9FpuMgizXYPCUxhFhKpFKixyKxfh/view?usp=sharing
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-1 point,1 month ago
Interesting that you say they do PR and not marketing but to justify their work you point to nothing but marketing articles that they have supposedly written and promoted. Contradiction maybe?? Oh and I like that many of the articles are written by another proposal owner Dash Force News. Nice. Plagiarism. Awesome!
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0 points,1 month ago
This has already been addressed. Also, that's not a contradiction. Literally, that's not what "contradiction" means in this context. As for what it actually is, I addressed that above. Also, the inclusion of DFN articles has already been addressed, as those were press-releases issued to DFN by WPR.
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1 point,1 month ago
I think what people want is for Core to head a marketing plan, which is what Fernando is working on. Fernando/Core are holding back, and strategizing because we don't have Evolution, and thus, we don't have a product that normal people can/will use. Thus they feel it's premature and in fact would be a great error to try to bring people into crypto when it is still as awful to use as ever. To start a marketing campaign now, would both be a waste of money and possibly turn the public off on Dash. Advertising Dash as a speculative investment vehicle has always been a no-no under RT. He has always been conservative in this respect. They never and will probably never want to encourage investing in Dash as a speculative asset. Nobody here is going to get RT to do that, and Fernando is just as conservative. And yet, Dash holds it's own in market cap. Many coins have come and gone, but people who are knowledgeable know Dash is solid, and keep buying, especially when it's low, despite the lack of hype '/. despite the lack of hype! Our mild slippage in Coin market cap rankings is NOTHING, and means NOTHING!

Back to PR, again, IT IS NOT MARKETING! It is more subtle, it is image, it is introductions, it is opportunity searching and connections being made. And mostly it is image presented, not to the public, but to the industry via conventions, conferences, meetings being arraigned, etc...

As much as it hurts, especially when the price is down and people are hurting or bored, Dash Core is doing everything correctly, and not floundering on it's path. I'm shocked at how determined and clear they see the path. I'm always complaining about one thing or another, and the guys always give me a clear and correct answer why they do things like they do. Ask your questions, every month they have the question and answer thing, ask them why they don't do "fill in your desire" and they will undoubtedly have a very clear reason why they do things the way they do, and you'll have a hard time arguing with it :) Not that they're not open to suggestions, but marketing has been suppressed for a reason, and a good reason at that.
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-1 point,1 month ago
"too early"..."awful to use"...wow. way to inspire confidence. Dash is lightyears ahead in development and according to you advertising our strengths is seen as too early. Evolution is going to flop so hard because this "wait" mindset prevails. Its really depressing to watch.

Read Brad's description of their duties. They are clearly relied upon for marketing and they blow at it.

Dash has not held its own. Its down in btc terms almost more than any other coin in the top 20 YoY. It is the only coin with a treasury too, which makes it even more of a loser. We need to a change of strategy. Successful businesses do this all the time. Unsuccessful ones do not fire anyone, remain delusionally optimistic and do not create and test strategies that actually create ROI.
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-1 point,1 month ago
Also since you're playing the "so important to the cause" sympathy angle, what about the Core Devs that were just let go? Were they less important to the cause than some PR suits who can't even do a press release? I doubt it.
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0 points,1 month ago
Please read this and reconsider

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-core-team-public-relations-july.38536/
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1 point,1 month ago
I don't think MNOs realize what Wachsman does. What their purpose is. They don't provide marketing, they're a Public relations firm. This is somewhat related and should work hand in hand with marketing but cover very different aspects of our public face. I'm really not sure why people hate this company so much. They are the leader in the crypto space, and it's very handy to have a PR firm who understands the business. Complaints seem to focus on marketing, which this firm does not do beyond where Public relations crosses over into marketing. I am not sure that we are ready for mass marketing, but when we are, it won't be Wachsman that does this type of work, but a marketing firm.
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2 points,1 month ago
Because...results. Where were they when we went to 2mb on the day of the btc fork? Where were they when we changed corporate history with the Core under the DAO? They are either an incredibly lazy and useless firm or an incompetent one. Either way they need price signals from management on the need to change their performance. That goes for Core too.
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1 point,1 month ago
This idea that we "aren't ready for mass marketing" is literally the dumbest business mindset I've ever heard. We have the best tech and structure in crypto, right now, if you don't believe that then please sell your investment and leave this community. I for one am proud of this project and I would like to start attracting investment. What's with the limiting belief bs?
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0 points,1 month ago
Even if we were (and nobody uses crypto except hard core nerds) Wachsman would not be the firm to do this type of work. You're mixing up what they do for Core and Core's business connections and work.
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0 points,1 month ago
You're mixing them up with marketing, which is not what they are there for.
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-2 points,1 month ago
The list you provide for "what they have done" is nothing but marketing articles. Bad ones at that. You are not fooling anyone.
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-2 points,1 month ago
Sorry, read Brad's description. Core definitely relies on them to create buzz in the media. One word. FAIL.
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-1 point,1 month ago
No one may use it but there is 300 billion in investment. Dash has less than 1% of that. There is nothing wrong with attracting investment. Please start acting like a grown up project.
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4 points,1 month ago
Some ideas which have crossed my mind:
1) Wachsman PR is a firm that has a tight personal relationship with one or two members of Core - and has the job because of that relationship and not because of what they have done for the Dash community.
2) Wachsman have made themselves unavailable to members of the community who have requested their attention - why? Because they only do things for Core team
3) Core team seems to have its hands stirring too many pots. They soak up the budget for everything they request, but there are others who do a better job in certain areas - such as business development and publicity.
Well, basically, put those things together and we seem to be paying a lot for a job that provides very little results - at least if there are results - they are not visible to anyone but certain members of Core team. If you read the description of this proposal, there are a lot of things said that really say nothing. Example: "We have worked tirelessly to shift the Dash narrative away from the project’s privacy functionality" Really? Tirelessly? Well, considering that you cannot really measure how hard they have worked or what the results of this work have been... I mean - how long are we going to support such stuff without actually being able to see, hear, and know what they are talking about?
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2 points,1 month ago
1. I don't remember how the collaboration with Wachsman started (I think they approached us), but I am certain that nobody from core has a personal relationship with them in the sense you are implying. We have worked together for a long time and, obviously, you build some trust or closer ties, but that doesn't mean that we are friends or owe them anything.

2. Can you provide an example of this? the only thing I can think that may trigger that comment is Amanda saying in Dash Forum that they didn't take her as a client. I'm not aware of the details, but I've seen them reject clients before because they didn't think they could provide them a good enough service, for whatever the reason. But that doesn't mean they reject the community, we are talking of a new client (she wanted to do her own stuff). Every time we've asked them to work with a partner or someone with the community, they have complied.
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0 points,1 month ago
1. stuff I have heard, but was hoping others would comment further. I don't remember the details and I am not an expert, which is why I started off by saying "crossed my mind".
2. There are definitely people reading through this now would could and should comment on this. DFN, ABJ.... perhaps others.
Thanks fernando!
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0 points,1 month ago
2. With DFN the problem was that Wachsman sent a few press releases manually and in a couple of them, they accidentally forgot to include DFN. DFN complained to us and Wachsman changed the process so no more mistakes happened. I believe this was around a year ago. As far as I know, since then they have received every press release in a timely manner (and have reported on them).
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1 point,1 month ago
1. I need a crossed eye emoji
2. Wachsman works directly with Core, it is Core that wants this resource, Wachsman works for core because they are paid, if they're not paid, no problem, they have other jobs. Dealing with thousands of community members who are ignorant and easily incited is not something I would spend my time on, especially if I had other customers. Or I would otherwise charge my client more for having to do so.
3. You are talking about marketing and grass roots efforts, which I agree, others do a better job. However that's not what this is about. And what they're talking about with the privacy issue is, in my opinion, incorrectly stated. What they should talk about is the human right to privacy, and how it should trump the FBI's desire to have an easy way to catch perceived crooks by illegally spying on all of us. Our personal spending habits are none of anyone's business but our own, period. They can catch evil doers the old fashioned way, by working for it, as they are paid to do.
4. How can you possibly judge the results of Wachsman's PR work? How? I can't, because I have no idea what has been going on, except what core tells me, and they say Wachsman is invaluable. Now, if you can tell me it was Wachsman that managed, and I mean managed the sponsorship of the Miami Bitcoin conference, I will vote no :) Fair enough? That, was bad management. With the NABC's history, I would have thought a pro would have protected Dash's dignity.
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0 points,1 month ago
There seems to be a general misunderstanding about who Wachsman works for....

Wachsman PR works for Dash Core Inc and it's quite obvious that they have the job because they work very well with the Dash core team and are invaluable to their business development efforts in particular. Ryan et al have made this quite clear. I hear arguments that Dash Core and Wachsman are "too close personally". Why should it be a problem that Dash Core Inc have a good personal relationship with their PR contractor?

Furthermore, Wachsman have not done any work for the Dash community because they are NOT contracted to work for the Dash community. I don't understand why people struggle to get their heads around this? Wachsman DOES NOT WORK FOR THE DASH COMMUNITY. It works as a direct support for Dash Core Inc. and are contracted in this manner. Wachsman have not made themselves available for community members who have requested their attention because THEY ARE ONLY CONTRACTED to work for Dash Core Inc. I'm not sure how many other ways I can say this?

I see arguments such as "we seem to be paying a lot for a job that provides very little results - at least if there are results - they are not visible to anyone but certain members of Core team." - Correct, they're not visible to the community because Wachsman DOES NOT WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY and has no obligation to update the community. It's contract is with Dash Core Inc.

The MNO's need to seriously consider the reasons why they wish to defund Dash Core Inc. with regards to PR budget. At the moment it seems like a mob has formed calling for Wachsman's head with little to no consideration of the opinions expressed by Core team or the impact that this will have on Dash Core Inc's plans going forwards.

If the MNOs wish to cut Dash Core Inc. off at the legs then so be it.. But don't underestimate the negative fallout of doing so. You are effectively setting up Dash Core Inc's business development efforts to suffer a huge setback during the next 12 months whilst Dash Core Inc goes through the exhaustive process of finding a new PR partner to build a relationship with.

Walter
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3 points,1 month ago
"Wachsman DOES NOT WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY"
ok, if that is true, why are we voting on this? we are here to decide on funding for Wachsman. If they don't work for us, they only work for Core, then - why not just wrap up this sum in what we pay to Core team and not pay for this?
"seems like a mob has formed calling for Wachsman's head with little to no consideration of the opinions expressed by Core team"
Are suggesting that people who disagree with Core team are a mob?

I would like to see Core team do what their true mission is - develop the software that they have promised to develop. All of this other stuff they do is expensive and needs more scrutiny. Thank goodness we CAN vote on this one. Thank goodness there are people who disagree and ask the tough questions. Thank goodness there are MNOs who believe that Core team should not be an automatic YES vote on anything they ask for.
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0 points,1 month ago
Core wants to work with WPR and feels that the services that WPR offer to *Core* are important and helpful and integral to their operations. It's that simple.

Maybe you believe Core ought not do some of those things and that these functions should be facilitated by the DAO or DAO-contractors directly. That's fine and has merit, but don't conflate or equivocate the two.
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3 points,1 month ago
We're voting on providing funding for Dash Core Inc, Core have explained what they would like to do with the funding. At no point does the funding indicate that Wachsman are contractors to the community as a whole and have to entertain community members in any way. It's a professional working relationship between Dash core Inc (a Dash Funded Organisation) and a sub-contractor of theirs.

It is not our job to decide who Dash Core Inc subcontracts work to. That's what we fund Dash Core Inc to do.

Walter
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1 point,1 month ago
Cross post from Dash Forum: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-core-team-public-relations-july.38536/#post-190697

Dear Community

I’ve seen the comments and wanted to provide you with my opinion: If this proposal does not pass, I believe the impact will be immediate and severe for business development specifically and Dash Core Group more generally. Even if efforts began immediately, there will be a gap in our PR for some amount of time as potential partners are interviewed, selected and on-boarded. Assuming they are intimately familiar with Dash, then they’d be able to start contributing, otherwise there would be an education component as well. This would immediately impact business development’s value proposition to partners being currently negotiated as well as targeted.

Business development is one of the main users of Wachsman PR. It’s a strong component of the value proposition we bring to the table when discussing potential integrations. While it’s not my intent to begin commenting on proposals, I wanted to provide additional detail supporting the value Wachsman adds to the Dash network and the work we do. Wachsman provides us with many key services that have played important, albeit not always visible, roles to the success of Dash Core Group’s business development efforts. Some examples include press releases about our latest partner integrations, end-to-end support on conferences and events, interviews/Q&A/thought piece opportunities, crisis management (such as when Ryan’s accounts were hacked), and media training for Dash Core Group management.

The best PR is often that one that is best at being unseen because they’re focused on the client (Dash) being in the limelight. However, I recognise that you may not have sufficient detail to evaluate their performance in your role as shareholders of the network. If funded, we will communicate this moving forward. To quickly summarise:

1) We currently held a strategy meeting in Dublin during a conference, where Wachsman flew in several members of their New York staff to attend. There we started to update and build out the framework for our PR strategy given changes to our strategy, website, rebranding and ultimately Evolution.
2) Wachsman has helped organise all conference related tasks at 12 separate events in 8 countries. These have included strategising, contacting journalists, meticulously preparing for interviews, arranging speaking engagements, negotiating booth placement, merchandise production and logistics, and booth designs, negotiations, and much more.
3) They have also secured 180+ media placements (articles/tv appearances), 30 of which are mainstream media and the remaining 134 of them are with cryptocurrency industry related media agencies. In addition, Wachsman has also secured 30 Q&A/Interviews/thought pieces. These media appearances include Forbes, Fox Business, Business Insider, Reuters, and Fortune among many others. The results of a recently completed week-long media tour in New York included additional mainstream publications which plan to publish articles within the next 3-4 weeks.
4) Full detail can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bDoz9FpuMgizXYPCUxhFhKpFKixyKxfh/view?usp=sharing

These all play an important part in our ability to integrate with various companies and industries, and ultimately expand our ecosystem. In fact, with many of the companies we speak with, our ability to publicise our relationships is an important factor when we conduct partnerships. I hear what many people are saying with respect to the image of Dash as a privacy coin. The challenge is that whilst I can empathise, the process of changing a brand image is not done instantly. This takes an uninterrupted PR effort to move the needle. I do not believe that a new PR agency would be able to achieve better results. We’ve worked with four firms in the past and thus far, Wachsman is the only firm that has delivered any mainstream media appearances for Dash. Additionally, the idea that another PR firm would be able to work for a team focused on PR to deliver mainstream media attention has already been tried. Finally, the Wachsman team really are believers in Dash and what we are trying to accomplish. I can’t overstate how important that type of synergy, let alone history, is to our PR efforts on the business development front.

I understand that even if the vote isn’t an outcome I’d like to see, this is how the DAO works and I respect the collective decision. Thank you again for your consideration.

Best

Brad
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2 points,1 month ago
Dash's Market Cap is an indication of the public's perception of our currency. We have fallen from #5 at one time to #13 now. Therefore, it is obvious to me that public perception of DASH has gotten worse not better over time. I am alarmed that you don't see this and seem quite content to continue with the status quo in light of this. Maybe if this proposal fails Core will finally get the message that things need to change.
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1 point,1 month ago
Since the beginning, new pump and dumps, then ICOs all got their time in the sun, rising to the top 10, even #2 position. Remember Aurora? LOL. No, market cap means absolutely nothing. Staying power and progress and ultimately service and usability means everything. This has nothing to do with how well our core team is working. They are doing everything with best practices in mind, and as efficiently as possible. They have created new systems that never existed before, thus had to deal with the unknown. Hell, we had to file a patent to protect Dash and the open source world from patent trolls. Wachsman is a TOOL in CORE's box. They need that tool, they use it all the time for business connections, meeting prep, and finally public relations. NOT MARKETING! This stuff has nothing to do with marketing!
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0 points,1 month ago
You are right Dash has accomplished a lot of great things but the problem is no one knows about it. Why is that so hard for you to understand. This must change but you seem quite content with the current, do nothing, policy of Core regarding PR. Sending press releases to Cointelegraph and Coindesk is not marketing. Nobody has explained to me yet why Wachsman PR is incapable of doing this.
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3 points,1 month ago
@bradleyzastrow there is not a MNO here that wants disruption to either core or the DASH network. Just as no parent wants to see their child hurt when they fall down and hurt themselves. But the pain is necessary, without it the child will not learn to walk. When a child falls they learn that falling down is a painful and something not to do. Pain is an *experiential* learning not a *theoretical* one.

We feel pain when we touch something hot, we do not get a theoretical idea of it would be painful without the pain. If pain feedback is not there we do not truly learn. We may even try to continue to get away with things. Pain is a requirement for experiential growth and improvement.

The facts are we are not seeing the results from the setup with Wachsman PR. It may not be just Wachsman. It may be the setup with Wachsman. We don´t know because we are not given enough information to know.

Instead of dealing with that issue and showing how things are actually going to improve the response has been to simply tell us how important Wachsman is for core in taking the work away from core. But the results of their PR as shown in the list of articles is nothing short of lacklustre. Meanwhile DASH is slipping down the coinmarket charts month after month. Other lesser coins are rising above ours, coins that don´t have anything real or anything tangible, they are white papers with a tech team. Even with all our community projects, our innovations I see very little in Wachsman list of "achievements" that is truly noteworthy of highlighting DASH’s greatest strengths. Instead there are rather boring mentions of DASH sponsoring Arizona state university and other such inconsequential achievements.

It is not the number of PR mentions it is the *quality* and *effectiveness* of those PR mentions.

I disagree with your point that the best PR efforts are unseen. PR stands for "Public Relations" . We should be *seeing the public results* of these efforts.

I wish to also clarify one of your points above so that other MNOs are not misinformed. You mention Wachsman supporting core for conferences. As far as I am aware that support is *separately* funded from this proposal and therefore should not be mentioned as if it is part of this proposal. As far as I can see Wachsman can still support core on these conferences if this proposal does not go through. Could you clarify that is the case.

If this proposal does not go through I don´t think it means the MNOs don´t necessarily mean Wachsman is fired for good. What it means is that what they have produced so far is not fulfilling the role of Public Relations that DASH needs and it also means that what has been proposed as a fix to this situation has not been satisfactory for the MNOs to be convinced that anything worthwhile has changed.

It has been mentioned many times that Wachsman has been instrumental in dealing with "crisis" situations however I don´t see anything here, in this proposal, that demonstrates Wachsman can deal with a crisis situation such as loss of their own funding.

I have also heard feedback from core members stating that they do not have the time to give detailed informaton to MNOs and statements such as "do you want us to do our job or do you want us to create reports for you". I don´t think however the two events are mutually exclusive. If core wants to obtain funding they have to provide MNOs the information we need to properly and impartially assess the proposal and to give feedback. That is how things improve and certainly on the public relations management, much improvement is required. The information provided in this proposal that Wachsman is doing a good PR job does not substantiate that statement in terms of PR. Maybe in terms of core not being interrupted and making core´s life easier. But that is not the same as providing quality Public Relations, it is only one aspect of it. What DASH needs is both quality PR, and quality support of core.

This proposal is about PR. In that respect the results posted by Wachsman so far in the list of achievements does not justify the statement that they are doing a good PR job for the DASH network and that is what this proposal is about.

We hear loud and clear what you say that Wachsman team are believers of DASH and we totally get how important that is for our PR firm. But we do not choose a PR firm simply on them being believers if they cannot perform the job of PR that is required to keep DASH in the top 5 , as we used to be, we are now a miserable 13th position and falling, when we have achieved so much over other crypto coins and we have contributed so much to hundreds of community projects all of these highly news worthy.

Nobody wants disruption to core Bradley, but I feel that is now looking like this may be necessary. Our role as MNOs is to do what is best for the DASH network health as a whole and to make sure the treasury money is being invested as well as it possibly can be. We are doing our role as best we can.

The setup with Wachsman is not working and the core members proposed changes or modifications to improve this situation are unsubstantial enough for us to change that view.

I would suggest that core have a meeting with Wachsman and discuss all the points raised here in this proposal by MNO owners then come back next month with a revised proposal that actually addresses each one of the concerns that have been raised in this proposal.

If this proposal fails to go through on this round I don't think MNOs are closing the door for good on Wachsman. What we are saying is the current set up is not working and we are not getting the PR results that the DASH network needs. We are also saying the suggested improvements put forward by core are also not convincing.

If we don't address this now we can expect to see DASH slipping further down the charts as other coins keep passing us. It is now becoming an issue of survival.
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0 points,1 month ago
" Just as no parent wants to see their child hurt..."

This is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. Dash Core Group, Inc. is not your *child.* They are not *children.* They are professionals working in an industry with decades of experience in their respective fields. This patronizing, paternalistic garbage has no place in the DAO. This is why I keep railing against you and your ego. Get. Over. Yourself.

Actually, we are hovering around the same position we have been for several months on CMC, jockeying for position with Monero, Neo, and Tether.

WPR's support for conferences is *not* separately funded. Core's conference funding is for other functions, WPR just assists with this process on their end. You're basing a lot of your arguments on conjecture here.

Asking for a revised proposal with a more limited scope of support by WPR is not unreasonable, but again I stress the foolishness of pulling the rug out from under Core without a concrete plan to move forward in the mean time.
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2 points,1 month ago
“If we don't address this now we can expect to see DASH slipping further down the charts as other coins keep passing us. It is now becoming an issue of survival.”

What a load of BS.

I also find your parent/child analogy increadibly patronising towards Dash Core Inc, and I’m quite sure that members of Dash Core will feel the same.

Brad has made some valid points and MNOs should take note.

Walter
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1 point,1 month ago
I think MNOs like yourself are indeed misinformed. First, Dash is fairing the same as all other cryptos in the bear market. This isn't something that can be controlled. Second, what Wachsman does for conferences is makes the contacts and gets us the deals to attend, speak at, sponsor, etc... they help us get our foot in the door at many places. Now I'm not core, but I see the value in this. Also, I don't think our guys would be doing such a good job speaking if it weren't for the training. It's not easy to speak publicly. Core team say that Wachsman has been invaluable. It's important to Dash for Core to have all the tools that they need, and Wachsman is apparently one of them. I say this with confidence because frankly, I think Ryan Taylor is extremely conservative, especially when spending money, and he says Wachsman is invaluable, he's said it many times. If I don't trust his leadership, then sure, I'd vote Wachsman out, but I do trust it, and thus will vote for this proposal.
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1 point,1 month ago
@TanteStefana last year DASH was 4th / 5th in market cap. Today DASH is 13th /14th in market cap. Therefore can you clarify what you mean exactly when you say "Dash is fairing the same as all other cryptos in the bear market".
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0 points,1 month ago
This has nothing to do with what Wachsman does for core DOES FOR CORE! They are not a marketing firm! You want marketing, lets do marketing, but Wachsman has given core most all the connections that have lead to integrations and we wouldn't have that without Wachsman.
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0 points,1 month ago
You have not answered the question @TanteStefana . You wrote and quote

"Dash is fairing the same as all other cryptos in the bear market".

However last year DASH was 4th / 5th in market cap. Today DASH is 13th /14th in market cap.

I am asking you to clarify that statement you gave because that statement does not bear up.

I AM 100% AWARE WACHSMAN WORKS FOR CORE.

I am asking you however to clarify what you mean by your statement that DASH has faired up the same as other coins when we have dropped from 4th to 14th position?
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-1 point,1 month ago
Dash has fallen in btc price more than most of the top 20 coins. None of which have a treasury. Do not rely on silly arguments, please use facts only. Dash is doing miserably compared to other projects.
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1 point,1 month ago
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. The fact that Dash price has fallen may or may not have anything to do--or varying degrees to do--with WPR's performance as PR Support for Core. If you're going to talk about facts and silly arguments, it would behoove you to avoid obvious fallacies yourself.
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-1 point,1 month ago
I was replying to the statement of fact above, "Dash is fairing the same as all other cryptos." Completely relevant. Reading is fun! Try it.
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1 point,1 month ago
...despite the fact that you've made the exact same argument I'm criticizing no less than a half dozen times on this page. It's kinda hard to claim you weren't saying something when you're saying it all over the page under almost every thread...

The fact remains that your argument is fallacious.
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1 point,1 month ago
The best PR efforts are unseen??? Well, Wachsman certainly wins that award!!! Was that their PR philosophy at American Express?
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2 points,1 month ago
Thanks, Brad.

It simply doesn't make sense to just rip this firm away and have nothing. A member of the Core Team is saying that Wachsman is doing a good job with what they are doing. If we are not happy with the performance of Wachsman, that's fine, let's find another one that can take its place. It's better two have two running concurrently for a while and then defund one than to have absolutely nothing for quite some time. I believe in Core, and if they say that it would create a big disruption, I believe them.

Don't let go of one vine until you have another one to swing to...
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1 point,2 months ago
I urge everyone to consider funding the VENEZUELA proposal over this. They are priced the same.

Please, let's think about what were doing in real life in Venezuela.

Let's reward the people that are showing evidence of hard work.
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0 points,1 month ago
Although I think the Venezuela teams are extremely important and I want to do all we can to help them continue their work, I feel this is in fact more important. Our budget is so bad right now, we have to funnel where it makes the most sense and that is to keep core unhindered in my opinion. I pray the rest of our teams will have the ability to survive a month (and God please let it be just this month!) without funding.

The loss of Wachsman would be very damaging.
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1 point,2 months ago
It’s a weak argument to be honest.. we could say that about any number of proposals.

Let’s stick to the merits of the proposal we’re voting on rather than turn the discussion into a “one or the other” type of false choice. An MNO can vote yes to this AND the Venezuela proposal if they see sufficient merit in funding them both..

Walter
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0 points,1 month ago
I love the Venezuela teams, and the African teams. I hate seeing funding flounder there, but with the price so low, I think we need to protect our internal organs first, then when we get healthier again, go back to supporting our extremities. Core are our internal organs, and Wachsman is essential to core, according to core. If I don't trust core's judgement on this, then I don't trust core and would vote no on their proposals and push to replace everyone :)
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1 point,1 month ago
Well said, Walter. I'd rather not spend all my time arguing about proposal vs. proposal, so let's please keep each proposal discussion relevant to the proposal and its own merits or shortcomings.
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0 points,2 months ago
I think rewarding the people with evidence of hard work is actually a great way to judge these proposals.

And they are in a competing cycle.

-Blake Chamness-
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0 points,1 month ago
I hate to say this, honestly, because it's so freaking mean and unfair. But the money has to go where it is needed most to keep a project from floundering. Hard work has nothing to do with it when you have to make strategic decisions. And that should not be interpreted as I don't appreciate the incredible teams on the ground. But the integrations and connections Wachsman introduces Core to are foundational to everything and everyone's ability to use Dash.
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-1 point,1 month ago
Does that apply to the Core Devs that got canned too?
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0 points,1 month ago
We don't know the circumstances under which Core Devs left or were let go. This is a false equivalency and an argument from ignorance, more fallacies.
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4 points,2 months ago
I think most people would agree that we want more and different PR than Wachsman is currently providing. I concur. But I reject the idea that we have to de-fund Wachsman to achieve this other broader PR effort. And I really like the idea of starting an second PR team, small at first, that answers directly to the Masternode community.

I think it will take a month or two to collect our thoughts and figure out a workable structure to do that. Even after it is up and running, it will take a few, or several, or many months before they could totally replace the efforts of Wachsman, if that is your goal. Even if that is your goal (to fire Wachsman) it would be foolish to do it now. It will create chaos and drag on the Core team.

So, I would advocate that we continue to fund Wachsman, and give them and Core the opportunity to respond to some of the constructive criticism the community has offered. It would be shortsighted to do otherwise. Give them a chance to respond to constructive criticism.

AND, continue to work out the details for how to start up a second and independent team that answers to the Masternode community. We talk all the time about how awesome decentralization is. Two PR teams is more decentralized than one PR team.

This could result in the best possible outcome. Wachsman gets better at what they do. Core team doesn't get disrupted and slowed down. Masternodes end up with an independent PR effort. Win, win, win.

voting yes,
solarguy
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0 points,1 month ago
Solarguy, maybe what we want is a marketing plan, not PR.
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0 points,2 months ago
I agree with Solarguy. Voting YES.
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2 points,2 months ago
I agree with solarguy. The Dash network needs to have its own PR DFO independant from Core Inc in the long run, I think the majority are agreed on that position?

..but cutting Funding for Core Inc PR budget in the meantime doesn’t make sense. It’s a really blunt instrument with which to signify intent, and I think it’s a disproportionate response to underperformance.

Winding down Core Inc PR budget should only be done once another DFO has been voted on and funding secured... if at all, in my opinion.

Walter
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1 point,2 months ago
So Wachsman is underachieving and under delivering but we should fund them in order to not create "chaos and drag on the Core team"?? I would argue that an ineffective pr campaign that doesn't attract investment and interest and translates into a dwindling budget and a growing pessimism amongst the project's defenders causes quite a deal more "chaos and drag" on the entirety of the project.

The reality is that it be very difficult to start a separate pr project now that Core is taking 50% of the budget. The scarcity is increasingly causing conflicts and we have turned away more proposal owners than ever before. So adding another actor in this fight would only create more fighting over the table scraps left by core. I doubt someone would volunteer their 5 Dash for that dice roll. In addition, the inertia from funding Wachsman will likely not produce the desire to hire another team. Complacency is a difficult habit to unlearn and without a sufficient motivator, the project will not produce the change needed.

The best possible outcome IMO is that Wachsman loses its funding and MNOs then decide to dedicate the funds to market research rather than just PR. Wachsman can then regroup and rejoin the project now supplied with a professionally crafted outline of a marketing campaign that came from research, focus groups, oppositional research and thoughtful planning. Then they or whoever else we hire can hit the ground running and not fear being defunded because they are executing an arrived upon marketing strategy.
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2 points,2 months ago
Below is a proposed solution to how we can create a first class PR and Marketing DAOs that can represent DASH in the way we need it represented as mentioned in my previous post.

For the purposes of being able to move forward with developing a better system to solve our issues on PR and Marketing I would request if we could postpone the issue that not voting Wachsman in will cause disruption to core. We will have to deal with that issue later.

In the list of DASH benefits I outlined in the post previously I missed one of the most important of all benefits. That is the diverse and rich experience that the 4700 + Masternode owners have and can bring to the decision making table. This experience is an absolute goldmine to the network. I don't know of any other network that has such a depth of experience to call on as we have with our DASH MNO network.

This huge body of experience and wisdom is so far only partially being utilized for the benefit of DASH. The proposed model however will make more of this experience.

The new proposed model will enable MNOs to proactively create new DAOs and suggest new DAOs which report to MNOs. We can select and hire the people we need with the experience and talents we are looking for to create these DAOs. All that talent will then be retained and become an active part of DASH network itself and this DAO would be focused exclusively on our needs.

Unlike the current system whereby the proposals put forward to the network are primarily external, meaning MNOs do not actively participate in their creation, the new addition will be proactive MNO contributions to generate proposals for new DAOs and to rank these different DAO proposals.

We may create many new DAO suggestions but each one will be voted on and ranked and the ones with the highest number of votes will then be put forward to compete against externally generated proposals in each round of funding.

Theses DAO creation proposals will be kept separate from the external proposals during their assessment and development stages. However we would then vote as to which ones will enter to the funding cycle when the requirements and concepts for each DAO are fully worked out.

In order to put our DAO creation proposals forward MNOs would not need the 5 DASH for the chosen proposal to enter the funding cycle. We would simply vote on which ones would enter the funding cycle. The reason is that 1000 DASH to own an MNO is sufficient to prevent Spamming and in addition the DAO suggestions will not enter the funding cycle until we are ready. This would ensure spamming could not occur on the funding proposals submissions.

The ranking system will ensure that no more than two DAOs would be submitted per superblock ensuring that external proposals have a fair opportunity to compete against the MNO generated DAO proposals.

Once our MNO proposal for a new DAO is generated we would vote for submitting it for funding. If funded we would then proactively search for the specific talent we need to fulfill the DAO. Therefore the new DAO creating setup would require a HR person that reports to the MNOs s to find the talent we need and put forward the candidates to the MNOs to decide on to create our DAO.

The new DAO creation setup would have key management tools to ensure the DAO optimally meets the needs of the network. e.g. in PR we would formulate a requirements list to determine what types of PR we need e.g. Mainstream media, Social networks, Radio broadcasting, Technical outlets like Redit, Coin telegraph etc.

Perhaps the reason Wachsman has not made much in roads to social media is because they may not have much experience in this area. With our own DAO we can specifically hire a person that has extensive experience in the areas we need e.g. in social media. We could also hire mass media specialist and tech specialists etc to construct our own multi talented PR organization. The advantage of the DAO is that we can build the team we need with the experience we need.

The way that PR works is through submitting compelling stories to media outlets that are in line with the topic of the moment. These stories will not be easy to publish however if they are only technical in nature *unless we are publishing in technical publications such as coin-telegraph or redit etc ) if we want to get into mass media, the stories have to be linked to show somehow how the technical aspect of DASH is directly benefiting people in real life. People read papers for stories not for technical info.

This means we would need to build into the PR DAO a means for DASH projects to contribute their stories to our PR DAO about how a technical aspect of DASH has enriched people’s lives. .e.g. For “Instant Send” feature we might show how vendors in Venezuela can use DASH to sell goods and services because they can confirm transactions in DASH in seconds unlike Bitcoin which can take up to 10 minutes to 2 hours for the confirmations. This is just an example of how technical aspects of DASH have to be converted to how they benefit people in the real world to become news worthy and to do that we need input from DASH community. The PR DAO would need to be modified to have a means to do this. We can’t easily do this with an external body like Wachsman who have their own protocols and procedures.

The new DAO would have a pipeline of stories submitted from the community that link personal lives to the tech and therefore making the newsworthy.

In addition the PR organization would post up to the community subjects they are looking for in terms of a story and what is hot or not and community projects can get instant PR by thinking how their project could be linked to the hot topics of the day in a social benefit context.

We would require that the PR DAO publish on a weekly basis their accomplishments and the MNOs could assess the progress of the PR campaigns and provide feedback on what we feel DASH needs,

Any MNOs that have already got experience in PR or Marketing could be more closely linked to monitoring the progress of the PR DAO. MNOs will have experience in different areas and it would make sense for specific MNOs to affiliate themselves with a DAO they have some experience in. This would not only mean better contributions from the MNOs to the DAOs but it would also mean solve the issue of MNOs having to assess and vote on so many different projects.

The specialist DAOs setup will enable MNOs to focus their energy more on the subjects they know most about. Perhaps other MNOs could even delegate voting power to proven MNOs with experience in a particular area.

The new DAO creation features in the current governance system a offers us the following benefits:

1. MNOs could pro actively create decentralized organizations (DAOs) or hire essential talent that DASH network needs, instead of what we have now which is passively waiting for proposals to come forward and voting on them or asking core to go outside of their key competency to hire people.

2. The DAOs created will ensure we stay true to our values of true decentralization giving robustness to our network

3. MNOs would feel free to give more critical feedback and if necessary vote down if an individual in a DAO we create is not performing. Currently when we see the word “Core” on a proposal we have difficulty in being impartial because of our loyalty, admiration and respect of core. This means in the past MNOs have been voting in some Core nominated proposals that are not necessarily the best for DASH.

We need to however remain impartial if we are to make the best decisions for DASH and the separate DAOs that report to MNOs enable us to do this.

4. We relieve core of the burden of having to deal with PR and Marketing and other such issues that are not their core competency. Core can then focus more exclusively on their strengths which is software development. This would improve further cores ability. We would have to ensure however that essential feedback information could still get to core when needed, but only when needed.

5. MNOs can save time and make more valuable contributions by affiliating themselves to only vote on DAOs proposals that they know something about. This leverages even further the MNOs experience to subjects they have experience about rather than tops they do not know little about. It also enables MNOs to save time having to assess an ever increasing list of proposals submitted to the network.

6 Greater transparency means better decisions and therefore better performance.

We can dictate the information we need to be made available by the DAO in order for us to fairly assess a proposal. Currently Core are overloaded and they have difficulty providing the information we need due to time constraints. With more information and accountability MNOs can make better suggestions for improvement and better decisions.

8. We can more easily replace underperforming DAOs or specific individuals within the DAO. We can also improve and expand the PR DAO as we need by finding and hiring the talent that may be lacking e.g. with Wachsman it appears they lack social media experience. This is a huge area that we need to be addressing and we could do that with our own PR DAO because we can hire the specific talent required to fill the gap in that experience.

I propose DAOs are preferable than just hiring people because this way we retain and build the knowledge and experience over time and we retain that experience.

Once we have discussed this proposed solution perhaps then we would need to address how we are going to deal with the immediate issue so that core are not inconvenienced.

This is a first draft of the suggested improvement to the governance system that will empower MNOs to proactively create new DAOs. I would be interested in my fellow MNOs feedback on this proposal.
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2 points,2 months ago
Some thoughts:

A. This seems like something that should be posted on one of the platforms designed for these types of discussions (the forum, for example), though I can understand wanting to limit discussion to MNOs. Seems like we should have our own section of the forum, but maybe Nexus will fix that.

B. There have already been several ongoing discussions about these sorts of "bounty"-based proposal ideas in other platforms, so it really seems like an idea whose time has come. Theoretically, Nexus will possibly be able to facilitate these sorts of pre-determined proposals or bounties--whatever you want to call them--but probably after they complete their MVP. We'll still need a way of making this jive with the protocol-level method of funding proposals from the treasury since it's not really set up inherently to facilitate this.

C. What you're describing are "Committees" as far as I can tell, not DAOs. Maybe Sub-DAOs or DOs, staffed with DAO-Contractors? Seems like a semantic concern, but nomenclature is important to avoid confusion.

D. Core's proposal is time-sensitive and will directly impact their operations. Brainstorming more than halfway in to a proposal cycle on a time-sensitive issue and asking everyone to put this decision on hold seems like a poor business decision and something we ought to save until after we've sorted out the present predicament. I don't believe this should be put off.

E. I already have a potential "contractor" lined up for a DAO-answerable, bounty-based proposal if we want to test this kind of arrangment as a pilot.

F. As the "informal" vote on the new logo branding demonstrated, there are still many people among the MNOs and Core that insist on voting being done within the protocol, and that's especially true with any sort of disbursement from the treasury, so any sort of off-chain voting system will likely be met with significant opposition.

G. We will drastically need to increase MNO engagement, participation, and activity across our many platforms if we're going to pull off something of this magnitude. Hopefully Nexus will help streamline and facilitate that process, functioning as a central hub for DAO activities, but given the voting turnout and market downturn, that's a pretty tall order. There are probably less than 200 of us that are especially active and engaged with the community at any given time compared to the thousands of nodes. Part of this may be due to language barriers, which is another issue Nexus should be able to help with. I'd love to see a much greater participation from MNOs outside the West.

H. The DIPs and the potential for delegated voting could be helpful in these tasks, but I'm wary of putting voting decisions in the hands of a relative few when every MNO ought to be reviewing every proposal or at least delegating that responsibility to someone who will, and I don't think that person to whom the responsibility is delegated ought to always be another MNO. If it boils down to just a few people making decisions, then we might as well start calling ourselves a CAO.
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5 points,2 months ago
Interesting idea, but, please don't call it a DAO, because it isn't one.
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12 points,2 months ago
I have read all the feedback here and would like to propose one further option that is core should not be involved with PR and Marketing activities. There should be separate DAOs for these one for PR and one for marketing. This would relieve the time and responsibility of core having to deal with PR and Marketing issues. Core´s role used to be about software development now it is metamorphasised into what is beginning to look like a centralized organization under the umbrella word "core". Whenever there is the word "core" there is an inordinate amount of pressure from MNOs to vote yes without fulfilling our full role as MNOs to fairly assess the proposals based on its merits, not on sentiments, or such notions as "we have to trust core".

It really is not about whether we trust or not. It is a matter of doing what is necessary to ensure the health of DASH and the network. Ultimately if we do not do our jobs sufficiently well as MNOs this will damage the network.

I think we need to consider setting up a DAO that is focused on marketing that is completely separate from core and takes that burden away from them to deal with PR issues.

In terms of Wachsman I have looked through their PR list and a good portion of the PR articles I looked at were about DASH funding Arizona State University which is about as much use as dodo in terms of promoting DASH. Wachsman however are just going off what core give them, and as I have been saying core should not be involved with PR because that is not their strength.

Futhermore PR and Marketing should be working together to build a strategy. Their only involvement with core should be for consulation purposes only and they build their own strategies to highlight DASH´s strengths. Currently I have not yet seen any PR articles on any of DASH´s main strengths.

What makes DASH special?
Our decentralized governance: fair, decentralized decision making that ensures different views can be aired without having fights to the point of a hard fork occurring. It means we keep moving in the same direction, maintaining our power, focus and resources. This enables us to find consensus and to build our network quicker and with greater focus.

Our treasury: funding core and other innovative projects to promote, improve and support DASH.

Our Instant Send feature: enabling DASH to act as a functional currency unlike bitcoin and other coins.

If you can´t buy a coffee and leave the shop right away then it ain´t a functional currency.

Optional privacy: Which is essential for any currency to be fungible.

Our extremely low fees - fractions of a cent to a few cents for any transaction

Our commitment to making DASH "Grandma friendly" through our Evolution developments. Evan Duffield himself stated his goal is to make DASH simple and intuitive for anyone to use. And that includes grandma.

How is it that I´m not seeing PR articles on these topics by Wachsman? These are our greatest strengths. That no other cryptocurrency has achieved. Where are the PR articles on these ?

My understanding is that Wachsman promotes the stories that core give them or core dictate to them. This could mean that core is not performing here. It is really not core´s fault however. PR strategy is simply not core´s strength and they have supported the DASH here as best they could in the early days. But now it is time for EVOLUTION in more than one sense of the word.

I hear what Tungfa is saying that Wachsman saves them time however my argument is that Core should not even be involved in PR in the first place.

I feel we need a completely separate DAO for PR and a completely separate DAO for marketing. Then there should be a DAO for strategy. These separate DAOs would communicate amongst each other to come up with the best PR and marketing strategies.

By making them completely separate of Core it means they are easier to replace if they are not doing the job. It also introduces competition to ensure that we are getting the very best for our money invested. The other advantage of a separate DAO for each is that it is more decentralized unlike the way Core is developing at the moment.

Core used to mean the core developers. Now it means, marketing, PR, human resources, Strategy, business development, software development, finances etc etc. This is one way to go, however it is increasingly looking like a centralized body and we all know what road that leads down.

I don´t think the problem lies with Wachsman. I think it is the way we have it set up at the moment with Wachsman reporting to core who are not really geared up to deal with PR in the first place.
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0 points,1 month ago
I agree, marketing probably should become a separate group, but PR makes perfect sense to be under Core. Core needs a PR department and firm, as they are the face of Dash.
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1 point,2 months ago
Instead of a sub DAO or hiring an PR firm. Could Dash also just hire a team of 3 or 4 people to start working on PR, in a independent proposal directly accountable to the DAO. Surely there ought to be MNOs or community members that should be able to start a hiring process or write out a tender. Or maybe they already know people who could do this in their network.
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1 point,2 months ago
I don't think the separation of these different functions of the DAO in to sub-DAOs is an inherently bad idea on its own, could function quite nicely, though there are a few issues I foresee:

1. We still have to contend with the present situation wherein WPR's activities--whether they're really "PR" or some other form of support in a semantic distinction--are integral to Core's current operations and what impact suddenly removing this variable from the equation rather than tapering off or phasing out will have.

2. We will need people who are actively involved and excited to work in these environments, and with the current market behavior, enthusiasm is at a low, so we'd have to find both qualified and dedicated people to fill these roles, and that's going to be tough in our present situation. Working for the DAO is at present a very difficult, trying experience. Hopefully Nexus will help improve that experience, but we're no where near making working for the DAO--much less sub-DAOs--an ideal experience.

3. These sub-DAOs will need funding, which is again largely subject to the markets, even if we do curtail Core expenditures now or in the future.

To be clear, many of these same criticisms apply to my idea of a Parallel PR department that reports directly to the DAO, so these are obstacles that must be overcome no matter what we end up doing either short or long term.
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0 points,2 months ago
My sentiments exactly.
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7 points,2 months ago
Rather than defunding WPR and disrupting Core, which may have untold downstream effects, we should look at improving this situation and thus helping Dash.

It has been suggested here and on other forums that we should fund this, AND — at the same time actively look at funding a second PR agency that would be directly responsible to the DAO. Personally, I am not convinced that PR is Dash’s problem, but this idea might be a good compromise which has the added advantage of minimizing disruption to Core.

We are all heavily invested here — and must not forget that Core is directly responsible for the future of Dash’s software. In our haste to improve PR let’s not cut off our nose to spite our face.
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0 points,2 months ago
Agreed
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2 points,2 months ago
Good Point. I do agree.
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2 points,2 months ago
Agreed.
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2 points,2 months ago
Exactly.
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2 points,2 months ago
Agreed. Completely.
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1 point,2 months ago
Remember this?
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/transform-pr
https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelterpin
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0 points,2 months ago
It says on their website that they have represented Dash but the link you provided shows that the proposal to hire them failed to pass.
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3 points,2 months ago
IIRC Evan hired them initially but when it was put to a vote it failed as MNO were not yet ready to fund PR and thought it was too much. The general consensus back then was that funds should mostly be used to fund development, not PR. We have come a long way since then and it shows once again just how ahead of his time Evan was/is.
A few months ago I saw an interview with Michael on the keiser report from puerto rico and was thinking what a huge opportunity we missed in not working more with him.
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1 point,2 months ago
Why can't we still hire them?
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1 point,2 months ago
No budget for it right now. Or maybe there could be but something else would need to go.
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0 points,2 months ago
The PR budget should first be going to market research and focus groups. Extensive, detail oriented reports should be reported to the masternode community in order for them to have guidance when voting for marketing proposals. This is how grown up businesses act. Time to grow up.

Oh and it would be nice if the PR company could write a press release every now and then. Pathetic. Voting no. Core needs to be humbled. We are one of the worst performing assets yet we spend millions of treasury funds each month. Something needs to change or else the DAO is a failed experiment.
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3 points,2 months ago
Really wish my fellow MNOs like you would come off these authoritarian power trips. If you disagree with the proposal, fine, but come off this patronizing nonsense. There are *countless* reasons why the price is what is, and very little of that has to do with Core's performance. Get over yourself, stop looking for a scapegoat.
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0 points,2 months ago
MNOs are the authority. This is the distinction. Read the white paper.
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1 point,2 months ago
No where in the white paper does it broach the subject of the ethics of inter-DAO relationships, and even if it did, unless it's part of the protocol itself, it's just a suggestion. You are no one's master and Core is not a dog to scold, hence "patronizing nonsense."
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-1 point,2 months ago
Couldn't be more wrong. Please stay up to date with your corporate responsibility. https://www.dashforcenews.com/dash-core-group-becomes-first-legally-dao-owned-entity/
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1 point,2 months ago
My comments are not about our role--which is very clearly articulated and understood--but about the way MNOs relate to proposal owners. I don't know about you, but I'm a business owner IRL, and I would never dream of talking about or to my employees or co-workers that way, as though I was their master. We assess and vote on proposals and their relative merits. Super-imposing moralistic language on that relationship is just weird and inappropriate, and as i mentioned patronizing, given that Core is comprised of experienced professionals in the field of their employment and many of us are not. We have a duty to the network, and scolding and moralizing isn't part of that duty.
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-1 point,2 months ago
You seriously need to review the record here. You are the one that introduced the slave/master verbiage here. I simply said that core "needed to be humbled." This is a mild and frankly merited use of language when employing anyone. We pay through the nose for what I and mant others here see as bad service. I am a business owner and when an employee treats customers poorly you better believe they receive a firm hand from management. And yes they are typically humbled and perform at a much higher standard. This is how business works.
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1 point,2 months ago
I vehemently disagree with entire philosophy. Simply owning things doesn't entitle anyone to this kind of "parental" outlook. We all work for the DAO, we are peers, they are not children that need to be scolded and disciplined. Most of them are also experienced professionals, whereas many of us are just nerds that got lucky. Again, if you don't think the proposal is worth the cost, fine, but I will forever rail against this kind of master/servant/parental/moralizing mentality.
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-1 point,2 months ago
Its called employer/employee relationship. Traditionally this relationship is not about equality. This is not a worker's commune. Maybe you should fork the project if you're looking for a syndicalist project. I for one believe in capitalism. Which use to be most people in crypto. Sad.
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0 points,2 months ago
Not relevant. You're applying algorithms where they don't inherently or necessarily exist. The argument from tradition is a fallacy. What we're doing here is not any "ism," it's unprecedented in the history of the world. Imposing hierarchies and the toxic culture that accompanies them beyond what is written in to the protocol level duties and responsibilities is superfluous, patronizing, and detrimental to responsible, pragmatic, efficient decision-making. Several other MNOs have likewise indicated they disagree with this mindset. You can, of course, keep being patronizing to our most important contractors, but as long as you do, you will be opposed.
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-2 points,2 months ago
History is not relevant. - Arthyron

Gotcha. Good luck in life.
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0 points,2 months ago
Fallacious accounts or assertions appealing to history are not relevant, yes. Unprecedented situations may require unprecedented decisions and models and mindsets to succeed. It's absurd when cryptocurrency advocates want to buck the old systems, the old ways of thinking, and then bring the same ideologies and mindsets in to them that catalyzed their creation in the first place.
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-1 point,2 months ago
Peak irony.
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8 points,2 months ago
“Core needs to be humbled” — *sigh*... Extracting a pound of flesh from Core will make things WORSE. How would attempting to punish them for Dash’s recent performance (nearly all of which is not their fault) make things better going forward? We should be figuring out how to IMPROVE the situation (see my post below).

This juvenile talk of “humbling” them serves only to harm Dash.
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-3 points,2 months ago
I suggested basic corporate pr actions like research groups and focus groups. I do want to improve the project and not just sit back and let Core pay for very little progress with our treasury. Everyone knows Dash suffers from an image problem yet we get nothing actionable to reverse this. The communication to the wider crypto community stinks. We passed a 2mb blocksize on the day of the btc fork...crickets!!...Core was legally placed under the DAO...crickets!! We fund inovation after inovation and nothing seems to reach the masses. That means a failure in the team running PR.
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3 points,2 months ago
One of the worst performing assets? A failed experiment? This is a little too dramatic/emotional to be making business suggestions. 20k a month is a small line item and people are nitpicking it. Remember it only takes them bringing one good opportunity/integration to dash and that could create way more value then we ever paid them.But it's impossible to measure every effect they have. Stuff that is months out could be a result of their efforts months ago. I think its good to discuss purpose and possibly bring in a 2nd group like suggested here.
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-2 points,2 months ago
All for competition. My larger point is that if we don't excite people about all the amazing things we've done this past year then Evolution will fail to attract investors. We need people excited about Dash prior to evolution or else evolution threatens to underwhelm the market, because core has placed so much on its shoulders.
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-3 points,2 months ago
Also its not 20k. Try 50K. This is the kinda passivity that breeds lackluster results. MNO need to hold people more accountable.
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2 points,2 months ago
I cant believe how terrible performance has been, my last Masternode purchase cost $10,000 around 18 months ago (yes I have more that I paid as little as $1000 for) and it’s only worth $300,000 today.. shocking!

I should have just stuck it in an S&P index tracker..

Walter
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-3 points,2 months ago
I get it. We've all done ok. But comparatively you would have made much more spending that 10k on most of the other projects in the top 20. Dash is failing to attract the crypto investment class and continues to decline with its ratio to btc now under 4%. This is a low of 16 months. So essentially your investment in Dash has produced nothing over just holding btc 18 months ago (actually less because you would have bch from the fork). The reason to be concerned is the network has spent tens of millions in the past 18 months to try and close that ratio. Yet nothing we voted on has made a difference yet in terms of price. Price is important bc it communicates all the information to a capitalist on how to distribute things efficiently (see Mises, Rothbard, Hayek).
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4 points,2 months ago
I have said it many times but will say it again, until we start releasing software updates somewhat on time nothing is going to change the price.
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9 points,2 months ago
"Dash Core Team [is] pleased with Wachsman’s work and would like to keep partnering with them. "

Dash Core Group's PR/outreach program is simply failing. No one is hearing what we're doing, so that's all that matters. It seems Core is more interested in building out a full corporate team than actually making sure Dash's message is getting out to both the crypto and payment worlds. We don't have any type of dynamicism or a charismatic character in DCG to propel us forward. DCG's culture is stale, corporate and just living off our previous glory days.

My fear is that when Evolution comes out, no one will know about it, at least not from DCG and Wachsman.

I also feel we're rewarding DCG team members that have been around for 3-4 years with "Chief" titles for their loyalty rather than skill. I do have to say our recent "outside" hires have been fantastic though.
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5 points,2 months ago
I believe that the innovation Dash has made with regards to a DAO and Treasury is one of the most unique and fascinating things to happen not only in cryptocurrency, but in terms of money in general.

The fact that people aren't award of the innovations coming from Dash is alarming.

We do need better PR.
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5 points,2 months ago
> a DAO and Treasury is one of the most unique and fascinating things to happen

I believe this is also Dash's greatest "selling" point. The only other large project doing something similar is Cardano - Charles Hoskinson actually explains clearly and articulately why something like Dash's treasury & governance system is needed (so I believe Cardano is something to watch closely). By pushing the importance of a treasury & governance, I almost think Charles is doing better PR (for Dash) than we are, sadly. But the fact is, for now Dash is the only (or at least largest by far) project that has a working DAO. Sure some treasury proposals flop, but it's exciting to see the projects that do succeed and all the different types of things that are getting funded around the world.

We need PR (a separate proposal?) to emphasize that.
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1 point,2 months ago
YES, we need crytposphere savvy PR ppl. Wachsman or no Wachsman.
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1 point,2 months ago
Forgot to ask this: who's our Facebook Fan Page and Twitter lead(s)? Because he/she is doing a horrible job on social media except for the occasional retweets and FB shares.
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4 points,2 months ago
I believe it's Tungfa. And yes, compared to other coins our social media channels looks almost dead. Probably it's because he have other things to do. But I don't know what else he is doing.
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1 point,2 months ago
The suggestion from Fernando & Wachsman below that the "community" submit stories to Wachsman so that Wachsman then has something to pitch has finally brought us to the height of absurdity. Dash Core's CMO and his PR firm suggesting in all seriousness that the Dash network not only pay them, but do their work for them, too.

Eagerly awaiting a DAO-sourced solution to the large and growing problem of Dash's image, or lack thereof.
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2 points,2 months ago
Totally agree.
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0 points,2 months ago
I was thinking exactly the same thing. My vote stays NO!!!
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1 point,2 months ago
I post a few comments from Jesse Platz, PR Director at Wachsman, and links to more specific information about their work since they can’t post here directly:

1- Dash is a project that we have been immensely proud to represent since we commenced our partnership in 2016, and the Dash Core Team have consistently received top care and consideration since we began working together. We service Dash Core directly, but we have always tried to our best to provide above and beyond Public Relations support to help Dash grow, including serving the best interests of Dash community members, and Dash Masternode owners. We consider ourselves lifelong partners of Dash, and have continually dedicated more staff and resources onto the Dash account as time has progressed.

2- Wachsman executes earned Public Relations, and Events Management support for Dash. We do not carry out marketing, advertising, or pay for play media opportunities. We have limited social media capability, but as noted in some of the comments, that is an area of improvement and we will be sure to include far more Dash mentions on Wachsman’s social profiles. Earned Public Relations means we use our comprehensive database of media contacts to find and pitch interesting story ideas to reporters, podcasters, bloggers, writers and broadcasters. We connect these contacts with key members of the Dash Core Team, and train such spokespersons on how best to get Dash messaging and positive narratives across. We also provide our media contacts with quotes from key Dash Core Team members when news breaks, to keep Dash in the media landscape.

3- We have worked tirelessly to shift the Dash narrative away from the project’s privacy functionality, and that narrative is slowly shifting in our favor. It does take time, and it will take even more time, but we have spent an inordinate amount of time educating reporters on the other incredible value adds that Dash possesses.

4- One often overlooked function of a good PR firm, particularly one in the fintech space, is how they assist clients in complex crises. Wachsman has a comprehensive damage mitigation protocol in place so that the reputation of Dash, its leaders, and its partners are held in the most positive light at possible.

Recent examples of this include the Miami networking incident, as well as the spate of threat intelligence reports that came out in February/March falsely labeling Dash as a leading dark web market alternative (continuing the privacy coin narrative).

5- We are open to media ideas from Dash community members and masternode owners, something Fernando has mentioned in the proposal forum. A big challenge to storytelling in general, as numerous conversations with reporters have revealed, is that the bar for coverage only increases by the day because they need to prioritize their limited time and resources. Dash’s decentralized governance structure is one of the biggest reasons why we believe it’s going to be around for the long-term, and the projects/community efforts it enables set it apart from every other project in the industry today. However, as many MNOs have pointed out, Dash Core is *not* Dash, but a part of the broader Dash community. Prioritizing ways we can all better collaborate on Dash Core & community storytelling will help these efforts, especially as most top-tier reporters require a certain level of access/exclusive insight into projects from the community itself.

==============

A quantitative breakdown of coverage/mentions secured as a result of Wachsman outreach since January 1, 2018:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pcd0jVWa8hZbMNGiRNAV1TyK1pBONC_Xr6qby0aeqJE/edit?usp=sharing

-In the monthly breakdown tab, we have highlighted Dash Force News links; while they technically are included in our final tally, that's solely for consistency in the tallying process and not what we internally consider "earned coverage"

-We have also included an events tab highlighting conferences we've supported this year, and the areas that we directly supported

==============

A snapshot of coverage data from Meltwater that was pulled this morning for January 1 - June 8, 2018:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UC-0MI_BWpD6_Xzj_q11OzbCDQOwzLlBOAcYVMbGid0/edit?usp=sharing

While this snapshot includes both Wachsman coverage and organic mentions/price analysis of Dash, we think it is still a useful snap shot of general coverage trends for H1 2018
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0 points,2 months ago
Watch this. Reflects what a lot of us here are saying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uusk-rIUWXk

We're losing the race and we're messing around here.
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2 points,2 months ago
(Cross-Posted from Discord):

There's a tendency for nerds like us to be biased toward and self-absorbed in our own reality tunnels. We think our hyper-specialized hobby and interests and experiences therein are universally applicable and important. We think that Reddit is super important, that CMC rankings are important, that crypto news sites are important, but these sorts of things only really matter to nerds like us, which is ultimately a very, very small fraction of the global population (i.e. our target market). Dash isn't trying to be the next big hypecoin, Dash is barely a cryptocurrency anymore in the classical sense at all, we're moving more and more away in to something else entirely.

So yes, his criticism is valid in that WPR is definitely not playing heavily to the cryptocurrency industry the way most coins are, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be why Core is working with them. Core is not working with them so that they'll play to the crypto crowd. That's not their role. We can debate as to whether or not it ought to be their role, but it's clear that's not what they're trying to do.

I don't think it ought to be WPR's role, but rather the role of the ostensible spokesperson or DAO PR team I keep talking about. Sure, I would like us to keep a finger on the pulse of the crypto world for the time being, and we need someone who both can and will do that well. He kept bringing up Amanda's previous role. I wouldn't be opposed to and am actively encouraging a renewal of that kind of engagement.

The whole "now they're asking for us to do their work for them" criticism is a Catch-22. This is just a concession to our demands because they don't want us to de-fund them. Let's be honest, WPR critics were going to criticize WPR whether they asked us for our input or they didn't ask us for their input.

Core is not "getting away" with anything. Core is getting the kind of PR support that Core wants, but the kind of PR that Core wants is not necessarily the PR that the DAO wants, which is why I suggest they be decoupled and compartmentalized.

MNOs need to get over our egos, this whole idea that Core needs to "respect" us or that we command "respect" in any way just because we got lucky with some informed speculation is unhelpfully bringing emotions in to what is ultimately a pragmatic decision. Leave your egos out of it.
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1 point,2 months ago
@Arthyron your comments are well reasoned and a good contribution. I would however like to raise one issue that you are frequently writing about MNOs being on "power trips" and their "egos" getting in the way or emotions getting in the way etc . You mention these comments frequently in response to MNOs you do not agree with or who you suspect are not writing comments based on pure logic.

I myself have been on the receiving end of your comments in this respect which I can tell you is not pleasant and I found was not constructive. In fact it has the complete opposite of what you are trying to achieve because you are bringing in emotion to someone´s contribution.

If you have a disagreement with an MNO point of view whether you perceive it to be "ego" or not could you please simply address their argument and take out your comments about "egos" getting in the way. Honestly your points would be perceived as so much more valuable contribution.

I personally value your feedback as intelligent and well thought out. However I request you please stop saying egos, emotions and power trips are getting in the way. Even if it might possibly be true it does not actually help us move forward with the discussion at all. If anything it detracts from your otherwise well thought out comments.

In one post you actually went as far to state you wanted "war" with me. If that is not emotional response I don´t know what is. So perhaps it is fair to say it is not just other MNOs that are getting a little emotional?

For me that comment is in the past but I bring it up now because clearly that was an emotional based comment made by yourself.

We are all human and even if "egos" get in the way as you say if we can just address the arguments that are made first and foremost we can still move forward positively even if the comment is not that well presented.

Peace intended in these comments here @Arthyron
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0 points,2 months ago
If MNOs are going to make emotional appeals and those appeals can potentially have an impact on the outcome of a proposal, and thus these appeals--whether rational or rhetorical in nature--are subject to the same level of scrutiny that any other assertions would be. What is "pleasant" is irrelevant to me in this venue. What is relevant is whether or not the outcome is beneficial or detrimental to the future of Dash. The purpose of these discussions is not for mutual edification and enrichment, but to determine whether or not a proposal ought or ought not to be funded. There is plenty of opportunity for the former on other platforms.

Many people are not used to criticism or having their points or behaviors scrutinized. This is usually unpleasant, but is essential to preventing irrelevant factors and rhetoric from detracting from and derailing pragmatic discourse. A person who disagrees with an assertion is welcome to dispute it or offer counterpoints, but anything said for or against a proposal or regarding a concept that may or may not be relevant to a proposal is and ought to be carefully scrutinized, given what is at stake.

In the particular thread in which I said "if you want a war, you got it," you were trying to leverage your perceived slight and disagreement with the proposal owner--a point largely irrelevant to the impact of that proposal on Dash, which as it turns out has been immensely positive--as a reason the proposal ought not to be funded. This is sophistry, it had nothing to do with the value proposition of the proposal or the organization behind it, but revolved around a personal dispute. If you were bound and determined to torpedo the proposal on these perceptions, then I was bound to intercept and defuse them, hence "war." Poetic, no? Poetic language isn't inherently rooted in emotion, though I can understand how it might be interpreted thus. So no, my statements were not emotional in nature.

I will address anything that is brought to the table that has an impact on the outcome of a vote, whether the bringer is aware they have brought it or the impact it is having or not. All I seek is a positive outcome for Dash. It doesn't really matter whether we all "get along" here. That is important in social, community-based venues--and there you will find me much more friendly and agreeable--but decisions of this caliber can have no room for sophistry.
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0 points,2 months ago
Additionally, I also confronted the proposal owner on another platform when I felt his behaviors were likewise driven by emotion and manifesting in a way that was harmful to other proposals beyond the pragmatic merits of the proposal. You may not like my MO, but I do apply it consistently.
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1 point,2 months ago
Core works for us not the other way around. The DOA was set up so that Core can't just do anything they want or they can be defunded. Ryan Taylor has said that many times.
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2 points,2 months ago
Core works for the DAO, not for us as individuals. We also work for the DAO. The only *respect* that is warranted is the professional courtesy to fulfill our pragmatic roles in the network to the benefit of everyone.

Pragmatically, we *want* Core to be doing what they *want* to do, because they're the engine that propels Dash forward, even if we're the feet on the gas and break and one of the hands on the steering wheel. We *want* them to have every resource and opportunity they feel they need to do their best work. It's certainly our role to help assess that what they feel they need and what they actually need are sufficiently similar to warrant budget disbursements, but it's not our job to micro-manage their operations and certainly not as the result of some show of force or power struggle. Those sorts of childish, pedantic concerns are beneath us.

At this point, if we effectively fire Wachsman now, that's going to seriously hamper Core's efforts, their workflow, how they manage their activities, and suddenly add a bunch of stress and extra duties to a large, ever-growing team that is consumed with other much more important projects. You're worried about Wachsman handling PR for Evolution? Try being Core worrying about even getting to the point of releasing Evolution with their support structure pulled out from underneath them.

De-funding Wachsman at this point is a terrible mistake. Instead of de-funding them and insisting they do all sorts of things they're all but explicitly not geared to do, we should be funding another smaller, more targeted group to fill in those gaps that several of us have identified in our public presence, particularly where the cryptocurrency industry is concerned.

You went on and on about how important Amanda was (for people like us). Fine, let's pursue getting someone of her caliber on board and put an actual support team behind them. If it turns out that this alternative effort blows WPR out of the water, then maybe we can scale them back to just the critical Core support efforts, but for now, it's clear that their work is indispensable to Core's continued efforts, and we cannot afford to jeopardize that. That's good for no one but the egos of MNOs who relish flexing their muscles.

You don't just start yanking parts out of a complex machine while it's still running. If you're going to modify things this large and this complex on the fly, then the changes have to come gradually.
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2 points,2 months ago
DashRiprock, I watched your video too - some good points, but you're pushing the drama bubble a bit too far. Some of us have put in more Dash individually than you and your friends combined and perhaps at higher USD/exchange prices, but why should that matter? That you feel the need to flex just how invested you are shows how emotionally attached you're being, which may be clouding your thinking.

> De-funding Wachsman at this point is a terrible mistake. Instead of de-funding them and insisting they do all sorts of things they're all but explicitly not geared to do, we should be funding another smaller, more targeted group to fill in those gaps that several of us have identified in our public presence

Arthyron is right. We should "simply" fund a separate entity to do the kind of PR that MNO's want. Perhaps one will just show up, knowing the DAO is looking for one. Or maybe you have some connections in the PR industry and you could encourage them to put up some proposals?

But to just cut off resources that core needs is extreme. And you're calling for core to resubmit the proposal to change a few words around because you don't like the title... that's being overly dramatic, no?

Wachsman *is* doing PR, but it's just not the kind of PR you (and admittedly many other MNO's) want. We should fund a separate entity to do that, not cut off one of core's important support resources.

One point I do agree with you: very few people know about Dash's InstantSend/PrivateSend features, the treasury, the projects being funded, etc. and I agree that does need to be addressed. I guess the disagreement here is how best to do so? (funding a separate entity VS "renaming" proposal descriptions?)
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0 points,2 months ago
I am not sure why you think renaming the project is so unreasonable since Core will still get its money.
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2 points,2 months ago
The title is accurate. Wachsman is doing PR, but just not the kind of PR that you (we) want. The title literally says "Core Team Public Relations" i.e. PR for the Core Team. Not "Dash Network Public Relations" or "PR for the DAO" or even "Proposal to pump the Dash price relative to other crypto projects"

That's like saying we need to unfund/resubmit the Core Team Compensation proposal, since part of the funding goes towards Development, but they're not doing the Development that I want - say I want web wallets and masternode tools and Electrum development. We can have separate proposals to cover those kinds of Development, which is needed and that Core isn't doing. But please resubmit and remove all references to "Development" in core salaries proposal because you're not doing the dev work that I want (and that other proposals would cover).

Doesn't that sound silly?
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0 points,2 months ago
I stand by my previous statements.
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1 point,2 months ago
Blank obstinence absent explanation or justification doesn't help anyone. We can hash this out or you can drag your heels to the detriment of us all. Seems pretty clear what's best for the network is not the latter.

I watched your entire video all the way through more than once before I realized it was repeating and addressed your points--and let's be honest, I'm probably one of the only ones who did--and that's your response?
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0 points,2 months ago
Nothing that you said persuaded me so we will just have to agree to disagree.
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1 point,2 months ago
I didn't take the time to watch your video and write all of that in order to persuade you--don't be vain--I wrote that to challenge your criticisms, to see if they hold up. If you're unwilling to address criticisms of your points, why should anyone take your criticisms of others seriously?
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0 points,2 months ago
*brake
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0 points,2 months ago
This is the edited Version of that video. I will be removing that video soon since it repeats itself 3 times. This is the new link https://youtu.be/8eUKaDBRS9U
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1 point,2 months ago
Wachsman executes Events Management yes but Public Relations absolutely not. Dash's image in the crypto community has not changed since we hired them. I really worries me that Wachsman is proud of doing nothing.
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2 points,2 months ago
Thanks for posting this. I haven't dealt with PR and what kind of KPI to expect at the multi-million dollar company level personally, but this sort of coverage seems about what I'd expect for what we've historically been paying WPR, especially when factored in with the other information Tungfa and others have eluded to about WPR assisting in arranging and facilitating interviews, conferences, etc. I wasn't terribly worried to begin with, but this does a lot to ease any sort of lingering concerns I might have had.

I will say that while many of the articles appear on sites or publications that most of us do not use or will never visit or purchase, what this accomplishes is vastly increases our area of coverage beyond crypto-focused outlets. Remember that our goal is to become Digital Cash for everyone, not just crypto-enthusiasts and speculators, so the broader net we can cast, the better.

This does, however, reaffirm my conviction that the DAO needs to pursue its own active marketing team or personnel, because despite the efforts of WPR, Dash still has a PR problem that needs to be addressed in ways that WPR is not addressing. WPR is fulfilling important functions, but those functions are not what many MNOs are seeking in a PR firm in the context of the Dash's over-all presence. So this data both cements my support of this proposal, and also my insistence that we need to find additional solutions for Dash's over-all PR presence.
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0 points,2 months ago
We need a PR team that can hype the market a little bit. this constant holier than though approach of not hyping, is getting us overlooked completely by the market. if your not going to hype now when are u going to do it exactly. fix the image problem and hype a bit, this level of non hype will have is not helping us. In business u hype ur product/service...
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0 points,2 months ago
In my opinion there is a level between hype and boring. One where you come across as attentive and active. A media team that often puts out Dash's view on things on social media in a professional manner, or reacts responsively with Dash's views on crypto happenings for example.

I'm not too fond to drag these things into the discussion but for example looking at the roadmap. Takings over half a year to produce a new one doesn't do your image as an active and innovative project any favour, shouldn't a PR firm point that out? Imho this is completely unnecessary as there is a lot of innovation at Dash. Just look at the 12.4 DIPs for example laying the groundwork for a big step forward in the organisational structure of the DAO

I think the question is to the MNOs how much this is worth? And should this be a task of the core team? If not, how will we go about the hiring procedure? Just waiting for the a team to show up is probably not going to get you the best team. Core has procedure for hiring in place, the DAO does not as far as I'm aware. Also there is a risk that being more active on social media just attracts more trolls which could make the efforts counter productive.
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9 points,2 months ago
In my opinion, the PR firm is doing a pretty poor job, at least in the crypto community. The crypto community in general has no clue what's going on in Dash. It is painful to read articles on crypto sites describing Vitalik's view on the future governance of ETH, all the while thinking: "He's basically describing what Dash is doing now." People just don't know. I've had a whole discussion with a crypto rating site that rated the Dash Core team with a 2 because the general perception is that Dash is an old privacy coin that isn't really being developed any more. Or an article with a list of 100 to watch Blockchain FinTech businesses that didn't mention Dash or any of it's treasury funded initiatives.

Which means that we're failing to get even the most basic sentiment out in the crypto community.
1 That Dash is much more than just a privacy crypto but a whole DAO;
2 That it is being actively developed by a professional and well funded Core team;
3 And that it has a vibrant community behind it, that is actually doing things like organizing conferences, setting up a support desk or maintaining wallets.

I think it's important to address this. One can say that the crypto community is not important. I disagree, because I think it is exactly the community that can get entrepreneurs excited so they build applications using Dash. And we're going to need those applications to make the Evolution platform a success. Android didn't win the mobile war because it was the best OS, it won because it had the most apps.

The first step to this would be to get more visibility, we could use more regular interviews and articles about what's happening in Dash. Not necessarily to hype but to let the world know that Dash is an interesting and active project, that they at least get the idea that something is happening at Dash and it's more than just a privacy coin.

And that is just the basic sentiment. There is much going on in the DAO that could be utilized for good PR. Although it is not entirely clear to me whether Wachsman works for Core or the DAO? That could be an important distinction.

I'm not necessarily in favour of breaking the ties with with Wachsman PR because finding and onboarding a new PR agency will take a lot of time (but I don't have a vote anyway.) I do think that the PR strategy needs a thorough review, there's just so much potential not being realised.
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2 points,2 months ago
I've looked at the Forbes reference quoted in the links below. DASH is hardly noticeable so I'm not so sure that is a good reference for Wachsman.

We need a PR firm to represent DASH however I think what we need more is transparency in what they are achieving. These achievements could be posted up to the community. In the very process of knowing they would need to do this as part of their contractual agreement with DASH we are likely to get a better return on investment because everything is transparent and Wachsman will know that they won't get funded if we do think what they are doing is value for money.

Therefore I will vote if there is some means for Wachsman to consistently post up their weekly updates on what they've achieved for DASH and have that publicly posted for MNOs, something like a twitter feed for DASH MNOs on Wachsman achievements.

DeepBlue
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5 points,2 months ago
As Philipp has said in a few comments already, at Dash Core Team we are pleased with Wachsman’s work and would like to keep partnering with them. You are right that we should have given more context and details so you could vote with more information. Our last proposal for PR passed without much questioning, we wanted this up early in the cycle and Glenn and I thought this would be enough.

Below I’ll answer to the issues that I have seen raised in the different discussion outlets in the last couple of days.

1- Evaluating a PR company is not easy because they depend on many other factors to do their work. If we get a lot of attention, maybe it is because we have a killer product and they have nothing to do with it. Maybe with someone else, we could do even better. Inversely, if we don't get any attention, perhaps it is us, and nobody could have done better. Add to that the fact that the crypto market moves almost as a block. Getting attention was easier in December than it is now.

2- Wachsman sends us reports on a monthly basis and also reports on each action over email in the following days. The reports cover reach, mentions, sentiment, and a few other metrics. However, because of what I mentioned in 1, I'm hesitant to give those reports a lot of importance to evaluate their work. They are somehow good to assess how we are being seen, but not necessarily to evaluate their work. This is especially true for our project. We have many teams doing great stuff that are not tied to Core or Wachsman but their work affects public perception. We didn't include any report in the proposal because we thought that, without proper context, they would add very little to this specific discussion. Now we have asked Wachsman to consolidate one for the first half of the year that also includes some of their achievements. You are right that you need something, even if it is not perfect. We'll be sharing shortly.

3- They do a lot of work that is difficult to evaluate from the outside. In general, they help us craft our messaging. On a day to day basis, they help us with press releases (drafting, editing and advising about timing). They also send us appearance opportunities in media and help us work in our responses to submit to the publication. Those press releases and most opportunities consistently get attention. Almost always that Dash is mentioned in an article, or someone is quoted, they are behind that. They also organize media tours for Dash Core CEO Ryan Taylor when he is in New York. Some prominent recent examples in Q2 are:

Fox Business (Video)
Cryptocurrency stunt linked to death on Mt. Everest an ‘act of stupidity’
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/5791109673001/?#sp=show-clips

Forbes — 125.01 million unique viewers per month)
Meet the Russians Behind Your Blockchain (And Cryptocurrency, Too)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/04/29/meet-the-russians-behind-your-blockchain-and-cryptocurrency-too/#48e1aae63b86

Nasdaq (Video) — 12.44 million unique viewers per month
Cryptocurrency and Retail: What the Future Holds
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/cryptocurrency-and-retail-what-the-future-holds-cm967263

Inverse — 6.81 million unique viewers per month
Dash Reveals How Rewards.com Scheme Will Help Crypto Crush PayPal
https://www.inverse.com/article/45312-dash-cryptocurrency-rewards-com-paypal-store-payments

Finder AU — 4.48 million unique viewers per month
Dash brings on new CFO from Morgan Stanley, Citigroup
https://www.finder.com.au/dash-brings-on-new-cfo-from-morgan-stanley-citigroup

4- We have worked with other PR firms in the past, we interact with other PR firms on occasion (our partner's), and we have had meetings with other firms to evaluate their services (even being pleased with Wachsman, it would be reckless not to have a plan B in case it is needed for whatever reason). We believe that Wachsman’s knowledge of the crypto industry is much better than any of the alternatives. All PR firms sound great when you talk to them, that is their job, but consistently delivering is a different thing. I would not change at this time, especially considering all that is scheduled for the second half of the year. A new PR agency would take a long time to get up to speed and it would be a big disruption. One of the strengths in partnering with Wachsman for so long is that their team were instrumental in educating many reporters about blockchain, cryptocurrency, and Dash from almost the beginning. Those reporters trust their content and listen to their pitches, far more than they would other PR agencies in the space. This also equates to many organic media hits, and reporter’s reaching out to Wachsman more frequently for article ideas and expert commentary.

5- Of course, there is room for improvements. Besides not being as frequently as we feel we deserve in CoinDesk and Cointelegraph, which many people have mentioned, and just to name a few: we need more stories about Dash in non-crypto media (not only mentions or quotes), more focus on specific regions like Latam, perhaps working alongside local partners, or uncoupling ourselves from the privacy-centric coins. Precisely next week we have a meeting in their offices in Dublin to define a path forward that tackles the problems (some of us and a big part of their team are going to be in town for MoneyConf and others will connect over video).

6- The price of Wachsman is similar to what other agencies ask for similar services. If anything, they give us more than what we pay for because they are true believers in Dash. They get paid in Dash from the beginning of our relationship and they have always adapted to what we could pay at each time.

7- Some people have asked what would happen if this proposal doesn't pass. We would need to go with other agency and still fund that. As stated before, it would be a big disruption. We have talked about this with them before and I’m sure Wachsman would only help in the process and would always have the best interest of Dash in mind, but it would still be bad. That kind of commitment is what you want from a partner and one more reason I would not make the switch.

8- Events. There is no way we could be doing the conferences we are doing without their assistance and they are doing a terrific job. However, that work is not included in this contract and is billed on a per-event basis (it goes from a few hundred euros when they had to do very little to a few thousand if they are sending people to support us on site). Should we not keep working with them for PR, it is unlikely they would be able to offer this service in the same conditions because there is a lot of overlap.
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3 points,2 months ago
Would it be possible to ask Wachsman PR to utilize their outreach more: https://twitter.com/WachsmanPR account is active daily but they have only tweeted about Dash 3 times in the last 6 months (Jan 15, Jan 18, May 31,) 2 of them in last 12 days coincidentally and 1 being a retweeted DFN link (May 25). That's 3 tweets in total this year to date.

Regarding Events. Organizing events and supplying printed Dash materials is for the most part administration work. Other Dash funded proposals outside of Core have been more than capable of organizing Dash and setting up event booths at key conferences around the world with materials and swag etc. all without needing a PR Firm. Is is not possible to bring this operation in-house? Perhaps this can come under the 2 new marketing managers position job description?
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1 point,2 months ago
Congratulations on your Masternode Mark.
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2 points,2 months ago
Good point about Twitter. I had never given it much attention because they don't have a big following, but they should be promoting us more anyway.

As for conference organizing, one of those two people will be managing part of that, but also a few other things, so we will still need some support. I prefer to be understaffed and rely on external providers because that gives us more flexibility to cut if needed. With crypto volatility, we need to be extremely careful with headcount in non-development areas.
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1 point,2 months ago
While I have some reservations about the work that Wachsman is doing, such as the persistent labeling of Dash as a "privacy coin" when it is in fact so much more than that, I believe it would not be in our best interests to defund them at this point without having a qualified and informed replacement in place. As such, I am voting yes, but if some of you are not happy, I encourage you to find and suggest alternatives.
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4 points,2 months ago
I post this separately because it is a different discussion than evaluating Wachsman work:

Media article ideas. Something for MNOs to consider that has been suggested by Wachsman. How about if we set up some system (email, channel, whatever...) were you could submit media article ideas about Dash? Then, we select a few each month and send to Wachsman to help develop and pitch to media, in a similar fashion to what we do with business development partners already. Wachsman people are on the front line talking to reporters and producers everyday. They have a better idea of what will make the news and what won’t, but this could be an effective way to get the community more involved in the process. Also, there is much more to Dash than Core. With more people in the process, we should be able to surface exciting stories that showcase Dash.
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4 points,2 months ago
So Tungfa has clarified that Wachsman has been indispensable to the efforts and activities of Dash Core as they go about their business on our behalf, and so while that may not translate to what is valuable to *us* as MNOs of the DAO, it's clear that from the perspective of what Core is and what Core does, Wachsman is apparently doing a good job.

What I think we have here is one of the first instances in which the efforts and activities of the Core team have become decoupled from that of the DAO, and I don't mean this in any negative sense, but in a pragmatic one. Core is doing their thing and I am in full support of their efforts, but their thing is just a part of what the DAO as a whole is and should be doing.

Given the feedback so far from MNOs and other community members, it seems like the path forward will either entail a dedicated, Core in-house PR person as has been suggested on the forum by Amanda and others, or perhaps even a separate PR person or department that answers directly to the DAO instead of through Core as a middleman. So what I propose is that the DAO/Community start exploring the possibility that we need our own separate PR team or agents that function as the spokespeople and primary "lightning rod" for Dash's presence in online communities that functions independently of but in coordination with Wachsman.

This way, Core can keep their operations going the way they want--which has hitherto worked out well for us all--and we can have the kind of exposure and presence and articulated image and values in various online communities and platforms that we feel we need to have moving forward. I think even in this present market, Dash can definitely afford it...just in the next cycle. ;)

As long as the two PR groups are not working at cross-purposes and funding both of them doesn't become too exorbitant, I don't see why we can't diversify our efforts.
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4 points,2 months ago
I posted another idea that comes from Wachsman to involve the community in the process. I should have posted replying to your message, but I didn't realize how close they were until re-reading it now.
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2 points,2 months ago
Thanks for the clarification and suggestion. I wasn't terribly concerned about this as some seem to be, but it's nice to get a sense for what WPR does for Core and why you're all so keen to continue working with them. This suggestion could work, it would all depend on how it plays out. Really, though, from the chatter in various places, what seems to really be a problem for many of us--and something whatever PR solutions the DAO as a whole ends up funding will have to address--is the discrepancy between how we want the crypto and fintech industries to view us vs. how we are usually/frequently viewed (privacy coin, etc).

What it seems many of us would like to see is not just dissemination of information *about* Dash, but a change in our representation, our public face, how we are viewed by our "peers" in the industry. Almost every aspect of Dash has changed so much over the last few years many times, so we need to ensure that our presence and the *idea* of what Dash is more accurately reflects our current stage in our life cycle. Most people who aren't intimately familiar with Dash as many of us are have at *best* an outdated view of what Dash is, and many are still repeating rumors and misconceptions from years ago as facts.

So since you're here, and Core is interested in keeping Wachsman on board, do you think this is something Wachsman could help us with, and if so, how, and what would we need to do to ensure this work transpires? If you don't believe Wachsman can assist in this task, what do you think an ideal solution outside of Core+WPR looks like? A secondary PR team, a spokesperson, etc? Again, if the DAO decides to pursue other additional PR solutions, we don't want to be working at cross-purposes or superfluously with Core's efforts, so this is a situation in which it would be valuable if Core could weigh in. If you don't think this is the appropriate venue, I'd be happy to take it to another.
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3 points,2 months ago
Yea if core is satisfied with Wachsman then I would leave that as it is. And instead, we should be thinking about a PR team that answers directly to the DAO.
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2 points,2 months ago
Dear CORE TEAM,
I would vote yes.
All explaine why here :
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-core-team-public-relations-july.38536/#post-189255
Regards,
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-1 point,2 months ago
Congratulations on your Masternode Joel.
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1 point,2 months ago
(JoL is not Joel Valenzuela from Dash Force News, different person)
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-1 point,2 months ago
Sorry about that. Thank for letting me know.
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5 points,2 months ago
As Tungfa mentioned, it is clear that they have been a good partner so far and Core is rather satisfied. Although IMO it would be appropriate for them to outline a number of their contributions for Dash to date, rather than for us have faith in Wachsman because they work in 'mysterious ways' behind the scenes.

I'm also baffled why they turned down the opportunity to work with Amanda at some stage. How could this not be a good thing?
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1 point,2 months ago
agree, a report from wachsman is in order - they are contacted already and should submit 'soon'

reg Wachsman and Amanda working together
that is obviously up to them , i never heard of this before , Wachsman is a Pro agency and who they hire or not is totally up to them !
Amanda was working with some Agency out of Calli , but i am not sure where that went or not
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7 points,2 months ago
@tungfa Our job as MNOs is to fairly assess if a proposal is the best use of money for the network. To do our job as a MNOs we need a detailed, specific list of achievements from the last funding in order to assess if it was value for money, or if there are areas we feel the money could be better invested. If you do not provide this detailed and specific list of achievements we cannot do our job of assessment as MNOs. You have provided generalities only. That is not enough for MNOs to assess this proposal professionally. You would not expect anything less from us on any other proposal so why are you expecting us to vote yes for your proposal without the information we need? Read the comments below from the MNOs . We are all asking for the same thing. We are here to do the best thing for the DASH network. If you don't give us the information we need to do our job professionally then we need to remain professional and vote no, because you are leaving us with no option. That is the only vote we can give with the information provided.
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1 point,2 months ago
yes - agree
i needed to stay "general" as i do not have the data on me
Wachsman is contacted to provide the proper data to MNO's and hopefully that is coming soon
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6 points,2 months ago
We have had Wachsman on the books for a long time now and I have seen ZERO evidence that they are doing a good job with Dash.
1) Dash is still seen as a privacy coin, we are a leading payments platform yet from a PR perspective nothing has changed. From a PR perspective what have they done to change this, nothing I have seen.
2) When a Press Release is sent out Dash is only represented on junk sites that no one visits. Its very embarrassing to have to tweet out weird/junk sites to show Dash news. Do they not have any influence among the big crypto news outlets and or dont put any effort in for Dash?
3) Zero effort in trying to proactively change our image in the crypto space where Dash is seen as the black sheep of crypto.
In my opinion they are doing the bare minimum to get our money then will bugger off when it gets too hard. If I am wrong, then please show evidence of the above!. In my case I am voting no to fire them.
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3 points,2 months ago
I can't argue with the first two points you make there, you raise two very legitimate issues:

- Our image as a privacy coin really needs to be squashed.
- I also find that these press releases seem to end up on some really obscure websites, never really see them in mainstream or big crypto media.

I'd like to know if this is something Core Inc agree with and whether they have asked Wachsman to do anything about it? Understanding the dynamics here is important, no point firing a PR firm when they've only been pushing the message Core Inc have asked them too..

Walter
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3 points,2 months ago
I think we need to make clear what their responsibilities are, and if what they are doing is actual PR. If Waschman assist core in organizing conferences and do a few communication releases, they are not doing actual PR, just events coordination and communication.
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8 points,2 months ago
I echo some of the concerns about the performance and value of utilizing Wachsman. It could simply be that we--as MNOs--have not had exposure to the full extent of their activities and support on our behalf and they're doing a bang-up job, but if even those of us who spend a significant amount of time engaged in the community and consuming Dash-related media are not seeing their efforts made known, are they really doing as good a job as someone else could for the same or less price?
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4 points,2 months ago
Fair comment and I agree with Arthyron completely. Some metrics to back up the performance of our current PR provider would help us make an informed decision about this.

Walter
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4 points,2 months ago
And further to my above post we do also have to respect the fact that Core inc are clearly happy with Wachsmans performance, and to a large extent we have to trust this judgement.. some metrics and a report from Core will go a long way to addressing concerns here I think.

Walter
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1 point,2 months ago
agree
working on it
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1 point,2 months ago
I am spending atleast 2hours of each day, keep up with the news each day, and I always start with what the scoop on Dash, I have never seen anything that Wachman has done as well.
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1 point,2 months ago
obviously
as they do not publish their articles as "Wachsman PR" otherwise that would not work that well as 'news'
they are responsible for all published articles we had in Forbes and whatever !
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1 point,2 months ago
Why no articles in Coindesk or Cointelegraph where the crypto community is reading. There are a lot of things about these guys that don't add up.
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8 points,2 months ago
I would also like to see a justification for this expense. Please detail Watchman's accomplishments working with Dash and why you think they are the right fit and not another agency. If the purpose of having these 3-month long proposals is to give us a chance to periodically re-evaluate, then let's actually re-evaluate. This is a MN vote and MNs should be a part of this evaluation.
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3 points,2 months ago
I think it's awkward that a PR firm would try to renew the contract without giving numbers of their success. That's literally the opposite of business development. That's like AWS telling me that I need to renew my infrastructure bill without telling me the actual usage of it.
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8 points,2 months ago
If we are fund Wachman again I feel we need to see a complete list of all their achievements with our last funding. I feel these postings by Core need to be more transparent. 195 DASH is a lot of money. For that type of money we could host a major conference in Venezuela which we know is having a major influence in converting a nation to DASH.

This proposal is not currently not detailed enough and therefore not transparent. We need to see a breakdown of what was achieved otherwise how can we judge value for money? This request is no different than we would expect from any other proposal and I feel that Core should be setting the standards for other proposal owners in terms of transparency.
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2 points,2 months ago
Hey All
i just answered to some DF questions on this proposal already
and let me do some here too
Wachsman is with us for a couple of years, we as the team are very happy with them !
over the years we tried out multiple agencies (suggested by proposals and the likes - and tbh none of them worked - Wachsman is the 1st agency we have that actually does work for and with us - we as core are very happy here)

"General achievements " , tbh it is hard to measure like this , but Wachsman is responsible for any Dash Article published, Press Releases send , Conferences organised (Booth , merchandise Handouts and the likes) ..... any Press inquiries go to them direct by now , to save time for the Core

Comparing Wachsamen Price to "a conference in Venezuela" does not make any sense - without Wachsman the Venezuelans would not know Dash even exists !

Evaluating Wachsamen by using Dash position on CMC does not make sense ether, as the general crypto space extended massively over the past years , many new projects pushed in - and yes Dash is "down" from 7 to 12/13 but that is not the point, the point is that Dash has now a Marketcap of 2.5 Bill (which we did not had back then ) , we are growing and that is what it is all about
Are other projects growing more than us ?
Possible , but we have to remember the general Forking Game from last year (hence Bcash and the likes) + general markets still run on Hype and Promises (IOTA and the likes)
As usual we in Dash approach the News and Markets in a conservative way - No Hype - No Empty promises - this has proven itself and lucky we always stuck to that plan (as by now the SEC is out there checking projects and their PR incl Promises, investment advice and the likes )
Wachsman is our 'partner' in this - and we are 100% on track with them and our general plan

"Blaming" certain Markets moves on Wachsman is very short sighted and totally irrelevant !
The Market is the Market and we are moving on , if that market is up or down - we are Project / App based - and so is Wachsman with us
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4 points,2 months ago
Obviously we shouldn't blame them for market cap, but I do think we need to have more information on what they have done, and will be doing for us.
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9 points,2 months ago
Hello tungfa, you are asking for funds from us, the MNOs. It is our role as MNOs to assess projects to determine if they are value for money and should be funded. In order to do that we need to see a breakdown of what was achieved with the previous money. If you can't provide that then we cannot do our job as a MNO. We need this information to do this job professionally, otherwise what is the point. You have not given us the detail we need. Please not misunderstand what I'm saying, we want to do what is best for the DASH network and in order to do that we need the details of what was achieved.

You say that the Venezuela projects would not exist without Waschsman. OK provide the evidence. What specifically did Wachsman to create all the Venezuela projects? My understanding was the Venezuela projects started from Eugenia Alcala's interview researching cryptocurrency and she came across Amanda B. Johnson's youtube channel. She then approached Tao of Satoshi for an interview and asked for funding on for the first DASH Venezuela conference.

It is clear you want funds for Wachsman however the way it is presented in this proposal is most likely not going to give you the funds because there are no details, just general statements. That is not going to help you get your money.

In order to impartially and fairly assess if this proposal is worth the money we are asking to see a specific list of accomplishments that Wachsman achieved during a specific time period they were funded.

I suggest you speak to Waschsman to assist you on this. Explain the situation on the funding and the MNOs are asking for details report on specific achievements for the last funding. If they can demonstrate that and the MNOs think it is worth the money then it will get voted in. But currently it looks like you may not get your funds because the responses that are given are general, non focused and make it impossible for MNOs to do a professional job assessing this project funding.

Core need to be held to the same standards as any other proposal. We are not asking anything more than what we would expect from any other project. Are you saying that you expect us to fund you without us doing our job as an MNO? We need the details to assess this project. If the details do not come forward then there is doubt as to how this money is being used and if this money could be better invested to achieve greater return on our investment.
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2 points,2 months ago
Absolutely agree with DeepBlue. I want to know what we are paying for. I don't see and I don't hear anything from Waschsman. DFN is in game - I see their intense job every day. Venezuelan and African guys are here - they are doing hard. Well, where is well-paid Waschsman?
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3 points,2 months ago
very well put Deepblue
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1 point,2 months ago
hey
tx for the long reply

“u are asking for funding / want it”
i do not want anything , this is not my proposal and i am only here to give my 2 Duff of knowleadge ; )

i totally agree that Wachsman should drop a proper report before this proposal can be approached , i am in touch with Glenn to get on the case , totally our mistake to approach this without having the report ready , bear in mind that glenn is “new” and still learning the ropes of proposals and the budgets .

i am not sure why amanda is mentioned in this discussion , i am not aware that she wanted to work with wachsman , if they took her on or not is between the 2 parties and up to them. who know what the details were discuss - i would not judge this (good or bad) with a 2 liner and no other info.
amanda did an amazing job , worked with Agency out of Calli last , and am not sure what happened there (why that is not going forward ), between her and agency - not related to this thread

my venezuela point is this , without PR back in the day there would be no project today and no venezuela project, as the promotion of Dash and the budget system created awareness in venezuela and over that the locals started conferences and proposals and the likes . chicken and egg obviously , i imagine there are other believes how this came about .
k waiting for wachsman and am taking it from there .
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0 points,2 months ago
Tungfa Please don't refer to bitcoin cash or bch, as bcash, as some people take offence to it.
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-4 points,2 months ago
really ?
i only know them as Bcash tbh ; )
who would be offended ? Ver ? Jihan Wu ? ; )
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6 points,2 months ago
I've gotta say, I haven't really seen any reason we should still be employing WPR. I hope someone will comment here proving me wrong, but as the budget tightens, I don't want to fund something that (from my vantage point) doesn't seem to be doing anything.
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3 points,2 months ago
A BIG GIANT NO VOTE!!! from me. The PR firm Wachsman has done a dreadful job of promoting Dash to the crypto community. Since the fall of 2016, when they were hired, Dash has fallen from number 7 on Coinmarketcap to number13. Dash is no longer mentioned in publications like Cointelegraph and very few people in the crypto community even know that Dash has InstantSend. Most people think we are just another privacy coin and that’s it. Dash is by far the best crypto currency on the planet but nobody knows because we have hired the worst PR Firm on the planet. The Dash / Alt36 integration is one of the biggest and most historic events in the world of crypto currency and it has received almost no publicity. No one is talking about it outside the Dash subreddit. I have absolutely no idea what these people do except take our money. If the Core Team does not recognize that this PR Firm has failed us miserably it is up to us to send them a message and VOTE NO on this proposal.
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0 points,2 months ago
Take five, man.
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0 points,2 months ago
commented above to your 'issues'
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1 point,2 months ago
What exactly have they do they do?
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2 points,2 months ago
Can we get an edit comment feature... ignore the above of course.
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-1 point,2 months ago
We saw reports like this in the past.

https://www.dash.org/forum/attachments/2016-12-13-wpr-phasei-final-project-review-pdf.2831/

I also remember seeing summary breakdowns of published articles that were directly attributable to W-PR.

Maybe Dash Core have a reason for no longer sharing these reports?

It is clear that Dash Core have all the info on hand, and wish to continue the relationship with wachman PR. Can we afford it this month? If so, who are we to deny them?
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0 points,2 months ago
Lifted from here:

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/wachsman-pr-dash-pr-agency.11077/
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-2 points,2 months ago
voting YES
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-5 points,2 months ago
voting YES.

"We have retained Wachsman since the fall of 2016. They have been a valuable partner to Dash Core Group. We have worked with other agencies prior to August, 2016 but found many of them lacking for a host of reasons. With Wachsman we collaborate in a manner that is fluid and efficient because we know each other well, and Wachsman explicitly focuses on the blockchain industry. As such, we believe appropriate media opportunities are more frequently offered to Wachsman than other agencies. Eight people from Wachsman are assigned to the Dash account, with locations in both New York and Dublin. Our interaction model includes frequent communication through many functions within our team along with monthly evaluation meetings.

Wachsman also works with us on conference preparation and attendance, though that service is billed separately and is provided on a case-by-case basis. Regardless of whether Dash Core Group retains them for conference support, Wachsman does support us in aligning potential media opportunities associated with each event." - plus I realise Amanda worked with Wachsman PR late 2017/early 2018. Anyone got an opinion on Wachsman's best Dash PR assistance to date?
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1 point,2 months ago
Wachsman PR has accomplished absolutely nothing. I notice you did not mention any achievements in the area of PR for the network on their part. VOTING NO!!!!
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3 points,2 months ago
Cheers. I will wait to see if anyone else has any great reasons why Wachsman should remain funded. I will change my vote if warranted.
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0 points,2 months ago
"nothing" as in ..... ?
i posted above my general thoughts on this , i believe there is a lot of misconception about what they should accomplish or not ; )
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0 points,1 month ago
voting YES...but we could do with a PR firm in addition to Wachsman.
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