Proposal “core-branding-tc-201804“ (Closed)Back

Title:Visual Identity - Tharp & Clark
Owner:glennaustin
One-time payment: 5 DASH (755 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-03-19 / 2018-04-18 (added on 2018-03-25)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 772 Yes / 504 No / 3 Abstain

Proposal description

This decision proposal is cross-posted from https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-visual-identity-tharp-clark.33043/

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5m-myZXKg6xNVi-hCmsmC98DxZncDlpM2Xhvsxgz6HJAED89zqp2OuQb5uYkCE5dZFcQAFWElxUa1krJCOLBbosqy_fm_V7c3C997c93G2N3zT80oyIXa04r7GVvnh34gT1VCz_V

Logo by Tharp + Clark

This is one part of a two-part decision proposal for the selection of a new visual identity concept for the Dash network. Two independent proposals have been submitted to the network for consideration and the better-supported of the two proposals will be selected for the final design. Should both proposals receive a net “no” vote, the current Dash logo will be retained.

Given the above structure, if you prefer the current brand, you should vote “no” on both proposals. If you prefer them both over the current logo, you may elect to vote “yes” on both proposals. A vote of “abstain” will have no effect on the final selection.

We would like to keep the discussion across both proposals in one place and we are designating the pre-proposal thread for that discussion. The pre-proposal (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-visual-identity.32795/) provides the background, context and process through which each firm arrived at their proposal. The pre-proposal post includes links to presentations on each of the logo options, including examples of watermarks, visual queues, color palettes, and backgrounds.

The proposal for the competing visual identity concept designed by Ogilvy + Mather can be found at https://www.dashcentral.org/p/core-branding-om-201804

As a reminder, the proposal that gets the most positive net votes will be the one selected, regardless of whether it garners the necessary 10% to fund. Again, this is not a funding proposal, but a decision proposal between these options. If neither proposal achieves positive net votes, then we plan to keep the current logo.

The rationale for not requiring a 10% threshold for this set of proposals is because the proposal system was designed for individual proposals. Submitting two independent (but thematically linked) proposals for voting and including the option to vote both “yes” and “no” effectively gives an inherent advantage to the current logo. We assume that many voters who support a design change will split “yes” and “no” votes across the competing proposals, even if they prefer both logos over the current one. Combined with “no” / “no” votes cast by supporters of the current logo, it is feasible we will see more “no” votes than “yes” overall. In this situation, it may be difficult for one of the new options to maintain positive net votes, let alone pass the 10% threshold, unless there is strong support for one option. This creates an “incumbent advantage” for the existing logo, which is appropriate given the costs of changing branding and adopting a new logo are high.

This “incumbent advantage” can be eliminated by the voters supporting a new logo, if they so choose, by voting “yes” on their preferred new logo and “abstain” rather than “no” on the competing logo proposal if they also prefer the second logo over the current one. They can also vote “yes” to both if they prefer both to the old logo. The governance system allows you to change your vote after you cast it by voting again. Keep this in mind if your opinion changes or you are unsure how you would like to split your votes across “yes” “no” and “abstain”.

A minimum of 20% vote (954 votes cast minimum for each proposal, including “abstains”) is necessary for a proposal to pass.

If you have any questions, please direct them to @fernando in the original pre-proposal Dash Forum post (https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-visual-identity.32795/) to ensure we are notified of your request.

Requested funding is as follows for the April 3rd budget cycle:

- 5.00 Dash decision proposal reimbursement

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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5 points,4 months ago
I think allot of masternodes voted to quickly on this one, it was very bad the Dash Core team to let us decide so late. We where also lucky that this one was added on later, thx to people outside Dash (it would have been terrible if we could only vote of O&G.

What I am affraid of is that some MNO have already voted and will be to lazy/forgetfull/slip their mind/etc to change there vote from no to yes. I am close to 100% certain that is the casing reading and seeing how many people changed their minds a couple of day's later after seeing this one.
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3 points,4 months ago
Hi all, Tharp & Clark ran a Q & A Hangout. Hosted by Drako / Max Yoga (Kuvacash)

Link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_-m5wcBR0
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0 points,4 months ago
Was this advertised anywhere? Did anyone have a chance to ask a question?
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1 point,4 months ago
It was announced on discord. There were some questions asked. Not sure why hangouts hide the live chat logs as they don't seem to show in the replay.
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3 points,4 months ago
No. I am for an appropriate rebranding. I prefer this T&C logo...but it does not quite look right. I like the lighter blue. I this logo could be tweaked. I am for a slightly more softer feminine aspect to our logo.
I am not a fan of the O&M logo either!
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0 points,4 months ago
I totally agree with you @criticalpoint. I have made comments below where I expand on one possible reason why the logo does not look quite right yet. I have also given some feedback as to the positive aspects of the logo. However until the issue/s is fixed I will keep my vote NO. I prefer our current logo for the issue mentioned below.
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1 point,4 months ago
I've read and responded to your critique DeepBlue. It's an actual Dash leading into the word Dash. A viewer would have to have a unique kind of brain to slip up on that. Who doesn't know what a dash ( - ) looks like?

Sometimes if you've been staring at words too long they start falling apart.

Just my opinion
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4 points,4 months ago
I can only see the word "ash". I appreciate they have put work into the design and it looks good but the issue is that the word "ash" is standing out which for me at least is not cool. Whereas our current logo in all caps we don't see the word "ash" because everything is leading D in the above logo being caps. What I also like about our current logo is the sense of "Speed" this comes across in the leading D of our own current logo. I don't see the same with either this logo or the OM logo.

I think that OM seem a bit old school and perhaps don't understand what DASH is really about. I think that a more dynamic up to date PR firm would be a better choice.

I feel our current logo works better because
a) simpler
b) we don't see the word "ash"
c) Our current logo gives a sense of speed e.g. Instant send being one of the best features of DASH.
d) We don't have to worry about re-branding all our previous work.

Therefore my decision is our current logo is better than these two logos designs. Therefore voting "NO" to both logo designs.
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6 points,4 months ago
I suppose you only see oogle too ;)

I disagree about keeping the current logo. I think our current logo is barely legible and is not suited at all as we move forward with evolution.

Tharp & Clark have produced something quite brilliant, very versatile and very readable... and there is a good reason for this, they know their stuff.

Michael Tharp is ex partner at Lippincott, brand strategy and design. One of the top 5 brand consulting companies in the world.

I agree with everything djcrypt0 has said in his comments below, so rather than rehash, scroll down and take a look if you haven't already.

T&C for the win!

Thanks guys
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0 points,4 months ago
I aiming to give constructive feedback. I have watched the entire video feedback that was recorded by the people that did the work on the logo. I appreciate the work that went into it. But my response remains the same. The word "ash" is standing out prominently and I simply don't like that.

To answer your question, no, I do not see the word "oogle" when using Google . Probably the reason for that is because the letters are all standing on their own with the Google trademark possibly because they are different colours which makes it not possible to see different words in the google logo.

Different colours would obviously not work with our logo of course as we want a feeling of consistency and stability to our brand as it is to do with finance. Google wants to portray is creativity, flexibility and playfulness. We obviously don't want that in something like a currency.

What I like so far about the work this team have done on this version of the logo is this:

a) the new color is good I would say better than our current because it is fresher and more optimistic
b) the softer rounder letter structure. I agree with that design.
c) the lean forward.
d) the D which can be made into the unique logo D on its own.
e) overlap with our current logo. Consideration has been given to our current ecosystem and to the work that has been done previously.

All of the above are positives for the work done so far. However the fact still remains as I see it and is the reason why I still vote NO this logo has the word "ash" standing out. Not just partially but prominently. This is not the case with our current logo because everything is caps meaning the first letter is not sufficiently distinguished as separate from the trailing letters. In this logo they are.

If this logo could be tweaked to keep the elements that work but deal with the issue of the word "ash" standing out I could see this as going a long way to improving this logo but as it stands right now my vote remains NO.
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2 points,4 months ago
I disagree again. T&C have shown the logo is versatile and that different colours actually do work (see their Venezuela treatment).

You talk about a fact that dash reads as ash, but be honest and hold the same 'fact' in your mind, go view O&M's logo and you will probably find yourself seeing ASH stand out as well, with your eve drawn to the A.

Tharp has the hyphen (an actual dash) in the D, which reinforces the brand as being Dash. The h is the same height as the D, which balances out the logo and ties it together. And it works both fractally and as a whole.

Our current logo is too robotic and militaristic, so far less likely to attract the mainstream. And it is barely legible in comparison.

Tharp & Clark for the win by a mile!

Run a test. Print out the logo. Don't say any words to lead anyone's thinking, but just show it to your friends, family and colleagues. You might find they will read Dash every time as Dash as their first response.

Peace
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1 point,4 months ago
Hey Glenn, seeking some clarification regarding the new logo.

Assuming this logo is the top voted at the end of the cycle, when are other projects in the network supposed to switch over to it? Will there be additional rounds of revision or is everyone more or less supposed to switch over as quickly as possible?
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0 points,4 months ago
Looks weak and cartoonish. The current logo seems much more powerful. I do like the brighter blue. The current logo should adopt that.
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5 points,4 months ago
Just for reference: Spanish speaking community prefer the current one or the T&C. (at least with the people I've talked)
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0 points,4 months ago
The Spanish speaking community is now entirely represented by the 4 people you've talked to. /s
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0 points,4 months ago
I am voting yes, because "I THINK" this logo is much friendlier, this may score Little be less with the hardcore crypto guy's (that me2), but it score better with females. Women are 50% of the population so, yeah lets look like the crypto our grandma's aren't afraid to use.
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6 points,4 months ago
Definitely should keep the same logo, and just improve upon it over time. All the advertising we did would be lost if we rebranded completely.
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1 point,4 months ago
People should be looking at how this looks on a screen rather than a wall or hat. IMO this looks better on a wall but the O&M looks far better on a screen.
My reasoning for this is because its main purpose is to be viewed on a screen!
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5 points,4 months ago
It seems many are voting on how the logo makes them feel personally. That seems completely wrong. What you should be voting on is which branding strategy is best. I'll highlight again what Fernando wrote in the OP:

This is not an art contest (which logo you like more), but a strategic decision (which logo will help us achieve our goals).
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3 points,4 months ago
If, as a marketing executive, someone delivered you an envelope containing 1,000 peronsal opinions regarding your brand from your exact demographic target market, would you open it? Would you find it valuable information?
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-2 points,4 months ago
The whole point is that this is not the exact demographic.
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-2 points,4 months ago
In answer to your exact question, perhaps yes - a marketing executive would find that valuable.

But is that what we have here? Does our "exact demographic target market" = early adopter techy/finance/freedom-lovers who have been working with specific images with which they've spent years with and have a strong emotional investment?

Or is the target market the "average user" as core requested O&M to create a logo to appeal to?

If we're the only users of the technology then yes we are the target market. But I hope you agree we want a look that fits with the "mass adoption" this community has been talking about.

To me the best option of all is to have another large survey comparing the "actual original" logo directly with O&M and T&C's logo (along with perhaps other random icons/logos). Then we will have more concrete data with which to make decisions, instead of going with our own biased feelings/opinions.
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2 points,4 months ago
I agree that the best option would have been to gather more data using the three relevant brands. Unfortunately Core did not choose to do that, so we are.

Regarding target market, I think the top priority is to serve your current user base. If you can tweak your brand such that you don't lose your base, and yet can appeal to a wider audience, even better.

That's exactly what T&M was designed for, and that's exactly what it's doing.
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2 points,4 months ago
I've decided that if we ultimately decide to change the logo, this one is ultimately a better choice for Dash--and yes, I said "for Dash" and not "for me," because ultimately it's our responsibility to make the former choice and not the latter, our personal aesthetics and preferences are irrelevant here. It's more in continuity with the evolution of previous logos, it retains an iconic "D," no confusing meanings or concepts, it's clear O&M don't understand what Dash is or why we're doing things the way we are from their assessment, it's in keeping with the attributes of a currency (lower case letters, etc), and contains the symbol that will be our logo on the ticker and even has a hidden "DC" (first two letters reversed) for Digital Cash instead of a "DD" (Digital Dash?) for O&M.

The big thing that really made it for me was seeing the mock-ups of real world use cases and seeing how poorly O&M's logo scaled (especially at small scale). The T&C logo scales beautifully and while I was initially put off by how far the "dash" protruded from the D, at small scales, it actually makes the "D" stand out and catch your eye and draw it in, one of those little subtle graphic design things that makes all the difference.

It's more reserved, but ultimately probably a better choice for Dash.
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3 points,4 months ago
I'm impressed by the knowledge, reasoning and rationale behind the design of this logo.
Read the slide deck - it's like they have some insider help?
I think this is an improvement worth pursuing.

Notable features:
-Friendlier with more curved edges and a more approachable and easier to read font with lowercase "ash". Less objectionable for increased adoption.
-The "Dollar, Euro, Yen" all have lowercase letters. If Dash is to be a "currency", it should have similar formatting.
-Doesn't seem like an acronym like with the "all caps" of the incumbent design
-Is evolutionary and provides continuity to existing design. If some people don't "update" it's not an obvious, major distraction
-Retains the iconic "D" for continuity and ability to integrate into viral marketing, t-shirts, possible Unicode symbol integration and eliminates wasted space (compared to O&M)
-The logo can allow Dash to be a verb in marketing
-Provides a professional slide deck with more common, easier to use font than incumbent
-Support for continuous improvement and a "living design" going forward with a solid company that understands the project.

As a bonus: Voting Yes for this proposal rewards an entrepreneurial firm that wasn't guaranteed anything but did a great job and nailed it, in my opinion.
Free market FTW!

Thank you, Tharp & Clark.
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3 points,4 months ago
I totally agree. Tharp & Clark deserve our payment. They saved us!
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3 points,4 months ago
Fans of the existing logo:

I used to be in your camp. However, I ask you to reconsider voting to keep the existing logo, and rather vote for T&C, even if it's not 100% what you want. The stakes are too high to roll the dice with another round of rebrands. T&C is close enough for me:

- It is amenable to a currency ticker
- It retains many good aspects of the current logo (iconic D, forward slant, solid blue color, scales well, etc.)
- It includes many improvements (lowercase, scaled back masculinity without going overboard, etc)

Again, please vote T&C so that there's no risk of losing what you love in a later round. We can always iterate on our base design, unless we lose it completely to a design that throws so much of it away, like O&M.
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3 points,4 months ago
This one looks better but I am not sure if it is worth going through all the trouble of rebranding and costs and waste so much energy for such marginal gains.
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2 points,4 months ago
I trust that everybody understands the rules? Whichever proposal receives the most votes, wins. Regardless of passing or failing. But if both proposals receive more No votes than Yes, we will retain our current branding. Please correct me if I misunderstood, but this seems important. :-)
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4 points,4 months ago
With a minimum 20% votes cast for each proposal.
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1 point,4 months ago
Due to overwhelming support of the T&C logo by my closest peers, which I value their input greatly, I am now discarding my initial personal preference of the O&M logo. Also I have seen some valid criticism and input during the chaotic talks and I believe the T&C logo can serve Dash equally or even better than the O&M one. It's always difficult to cast away personal views/preferences but I do believe it's for the better.

With that said, let the voting begin!
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3 points,4 months ago
My experience and thoughts exactly.
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0 points,4 months ago
I used to prefer this logo because it does look "nice" and since we're used to the old logo and it does seem like a nice refresh.

But try to put yourself in the shoes of someone who's never seen or heard of Dash before. What do you see? Looked at from afar (or up close) it's difficult to tell what this is.

I always see "ash" after a "power on/off" symbol. You have to either already know what Dash is, or have it explained to you. Not good for mass adoption.

The O&M logo doesn't need explanation. It's just a symbol. Who cares where it comes from (chains, layers, whatev) - do you know the meaning behind overlapping red and yellow circles? Nobody cares, except for trivia buffs, and no one needs to know as long as it's recognizable.

Core went to O&M and requested the creation of a logo that appeals to "the average person" and it's apparently what we got - my own *anecdotal* evidence (since everyone is sharing) is my friends prefer the O&M logo. This baffles me, but think about it.... maybe you just like the more familiar "Dash" because *you're* used to it. And the O&M logo *is* recognizable/memorable/preferable for some reason. But don't just take your own anecdotal evidence, do a large survey. Oh wait we already have one.

To be honest, I don't much like the O&M logo because it seems too busy and complicated, and if I had to draw it myself I couldn't get it right - but maybe that's not important as long as it's recognizable. Ideally I'd prefer a recognizable symbol, like a shape or graphic. But it shouldn't really about what I want or prefer, but what is best for the network. Right?

Unfortunately, I've come to dislike the T&C logo due to the "ash" and "power on/off symbol" issue. Why don't we have O&M come up with something else, since it is part of their contract?
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0 points,4 months ago
I like this better than the double D but not better than the current logo. Voting NO on both.
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0 points,4 months ago
I like this logo.
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0 points,4 months ago
This one took much longer to grow on me, and I dont like that it looks kind of bloated, clunky and clumsy. But it has more that movement/community feel to it than O&M's more corporate look.

I applaud O&M for having taken a risk and going all the way (I wished T&C had done the same actually), but perhaps they went one step too far, as the Dash identity is completely lost.

We really need a rebranding and the T&C logo is an improvement over the current logo.. so voting yes.
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0 points,4 months ago
A dash fan got a Dash tattoo on his arm, do any MNO see ANYONE in the future getting that O&M logo tattooed on their arm?

https://cl.ly/2H1O3S2C2s0T


Our Logo should excite people and build a community, not a company.

If i had to choose, i would choose T&C, much better thought process and knowledge of Dash needs. This logo or something like it grows with Dash, not totally blow out the current image, build upon it.
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0 points,4 months ago
i like this logo more, its moving in the right direction, but, i think our original D is iconic, or make a distinct D that can be a good currency symbol: a light in the Dark to help you find Dash.
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-2 points,4 months ago
I have cast my vote to O&M, they have made it clear how out-dated the current logo is.

1. The "DD" logo stands for Dash DAO; a movement for change, a voice for freedom "Digital Cash" is just a strapline, a much smaller part of what dash truly is. If you're voting for currency symbols, you've forgotten what dash stands for.

2. I reject comments that O&M's logo is too "corporate". Who says a DAO can't be professional and compete with visa and mastercard?

3. I am outraged that Core feels they can ignore the rules of super majority. If one of these logo "wins" according to their newly invented rules, I will be causing havoc. In particular, I may attempt to overturn the decision via the newly formed dash trust i.e. Core must abide by masternode wishes. This is governance by blockchain, not Core. To be clear, in the most recent conference call, Ryan said the treasury / governance system was working as planned, that any updates to it were considered low priority.
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3 points,4 months ago
1. Somewhat disagree.
2. Somewhat disagree.
3. Completely agree.

I think a better approach would have been two rounds of voting.

- Round 1: O&M vs T&C, highest points moves to round 2.
- Round 2: Winner of round 1 vs existing brand.

Round 2 would be a normal funding vote where implementation costs are included. The normal supermajority would be required. To me that seems the most accurate and least controversial/contentious path forward for such a critical decision.
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0 points,4 months ago
I just can't accept the DareDevil logo that O&M came up with.
It's too generic and that paperclip look when it's used as an icon just kills it for me.
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-1 point,4 months ago
Can we please link the presentations directly to each proposal.
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-1 point,4 months ago
This logo is nice, but doesn’t have the same pizazz as the other one. That being said, I could easily live with it.
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