Proposal “Trudatum_by_Coinfirm“ (Closed)Back

Title:Trudatum - bringing Dash to large corporates
Owner:Coinfirm
Monthly amount: 550 DASH (308482 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (3 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2017-10-19 / 2018-01-16 (added on 2017-10-24)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 155 Yes / 286 No / 111 Abstain

Proposal description

Trudatum - Register and Authenticate any type of Document, File or Data

Coinfirm
For those who follow Dash, Coinfirm doesn’t need much of an introduction. But for those who don’t know us yet we can quote the words of your own Ryan Taylor (Dash Core CEO) on how - “Coinfirm offers its customers truly world-class tools to meet regulatory requirements in an easy and effective manner….expand into products and services that we haven’t been able to provide or integrate in the past. We’re super excited about this because it’s definitely a game changer in terms of what we can do moving forward.” You can check our website here https://www.coinfirm.io/about to learn more.

Idea
A lot of large companies and entities of many kinds have problems with proof of immutable stored data like documents, files, code etc. Many terms are given to this issue such as durable medium and golden source. Currently governments of many countries create laws and regulations imposing on the companies implementation of solutions for ensuring authenticity and immutability and of documents. These regulations are strict and old technologies have problems fulfilling the needs and requirements.
Coinfirm has solved these issues and created a solution based on blockchain with the central stage reserved for Dash’s blockchain. Trudatum (the name of the platform/solution) brings a new level of security and efficiency to users, clients and partners. Trudatum is a Registration and Verification Platform for digital content with authentication of existence and ownership of files with a chain of events structure. 
Tests and pilots have been successfully performed with global companies and financial institutions such as the largest bank in Central Europe PKO Bank Polska as well as the American asset management company SEI with great success and have the commitment of multiple entities to use the platform. Dash blockchain was the fundamental piece for these implementations.
The Trudatum platform is ready and will be a public website, open for all users. There are still elements and functionalities that need to be further developed. We want to add some new features, prepare a better UX, UI, and make Trudatum a global standard.
We want DASH to be the underlying medium where essential data points are permanently recorded. Technically Trudatum will involve a large number of transactions on the network and a large amount of Dash used.
With Trudatum we are truly bringing the advantages of public blockchain to large corporate and the established markets and Dash can became the cornerstone of these solutions.
Why Dash?
  • quick settlement in the block and instant pay
  • one of the largest network of nodes that gives security of the data  
  • real and proactive team behind it
  • approach for large enterprises and large clients
What we have already done
  • We are after the pilot stage of development with clients with positive and promising results
  • We are already partnering with large corporate, including major financial and insurance institutions, who started using Dash’s blockchain to register files and documents through our solution.
  • We prepared the first stage of branding, UX/UI, and functionalities, below you can check some screens and examples
What we want to implement in the next 7 months 
  • Add the option for multisign by many users for the same file/document
  • Create the ability for document/file version control (ability to add new versions of the same file/document tied to the original and create a living chain)
  • Create the ability for document/file chains (user can track document flow process)
  • Create fully customized notification panel with live notifications in application
  • Feature for sharing files/documents in groups (for example the ability to be version controlled by multiple entities)
  • Account/Profile verification by employees or leaders of companies. For example Verified company A can verify profile B of their employee  
  • After the release of Dash Evolution in Alpha mode, test Dash User Accounts as an option to log in to the Trudatum platform with their Dash User Account profile displayed as the owner after file/document verification

What​ ​ we​ ​ offer​ ​ for​ ​ Dash
  • Real and scalable ​ commercial​ ​ adoption​​ and​ ​ usage​ ​ with​ ​ more​ ​ transactions​ ​ in​ ​ the​ ​ network.​ ​ 
  • Within​ ​3 years​ we​ ​would​ ​like​ ​to​ ​generate​ ​minimum 170​k​ ​ transactions​ ​(~60​ million transactions annually) ​on​ ​Dash's​ ​blockchain.​ This​ ​ will​ ​ add​ ​ new​ ​ scale,​ ​ an​ ​ extra​ ​ new​ ​ fee​ ​ to​ ​ the network​ ​ and​ ​ mining​ ​ will​ ​ be​ ​ more​ ​ profitable​ ​ while making the​ ​ network​ ​ more​ ​ secure.
  • Lower​ ​ costs​ ​ for​ ​ registering​ ​ files/documents​ ​ on​ ​ the​ ​ platform​ ​ for​ ​ users​ ​ using​ ​ Dash's payment​ ​ method​ ​ will​ ​ bring​ ​ more​ ​ liquidity​ ​ on​ ​ the​ ​ market.
  • Platform​ ​ with​ ​ API​ ​ access​ ​ that​ ​can​ ​ be​ ​ plug​ ​ and​ ​ play​ ​ for​ ​ other​ ​ businesses​ ​ bringing even​ ​ more​ ​ liquidity​ ​ to​ ​ the Dash​ market.
  • Introduce​ ​ the​ ​ Dash​ ​ project​ ​ to​ ​ global​ ​ financial​ ​ institutions​ ​ and​ ​ companies​ ​ as​ ​ a ​ ​ global and​ ​ secure​ ​ blockchain,​ ​ payment​ ​ processor,​ ​ and​ ​ decentralized​ ​ platform​. Right now we are spending significant time promoting and explaining Dash to many companies.

Already working with the Trudatum solution 
  • PKO (The largest Central European bank)
  • Bacca (Insurance industry disruptor)
  • SEI - (Global Asset Management Co with around $700bill under management)

Budget
We've believed in and supported Dash in various forms from the beginning and want to further develop this solution with you. We are making this proposal because we have the utmost faith in Dash's platform, our vision and capabilities, and the massive potential this solution holds for both Coinfirm and Dash.

Links
- Dash Talk Preproposal

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,27 days ago
I think this shouldnt be so high, there are open source implementations that sign such documents for not much.
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0 points,28 days ago
good one ,
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-1 point,28 days ago
but the budget is too high , better start with small amount and show progress

at the current budget the total risk is on the dash MNO and no risk on coinfirm
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2 points,27 days ago
I agree. The way this proposal has been sold to us in the end is along the lines of a "pay-to-play" type arrangement. The underlying tech and solution is great and I have no doubt that the combination of Trudatum on the Dash blockchain is optimal for both Coinfirm and it's clients. Where things fall apart for me is the notion that Coinfirm expects the Dash network to fund them over $1,000,000 to basically incentive them to develop then sell their own solution, and to recommend (yes, only recommend) they use Dash as the ledger. There is no exclusivity here, nor is there any guarantee that the dash blockchain will be adopted by a meaningful number of Trudatum clients, even though - by coinfirm's own admission - Dash is clearly the best blockchain for the job!

Then, rather unhelpfully, coinfirm infer that should the proposal not pass they will drop the best blockchain solution (dash - by their own admission) and push their clients towards proprietary solutions such as IBM etc.

Thanks a lot partner!

Partnership is an interesting concept:

"A partnership is an arrangement where parties, known as partners, agree to cooperate to advance their mutual interests. The partners in a partnership may be individuals, businesses, interest-based organizations, schools, governments or combinations. Organizations may partner to increase the likelihood of each achieving their mission and to amplify their reach. A partnership may result in issuing and holding equity or may be only governed by a contract." - Wikipedia

When we consider this proposal in light of the above definition it becomes clear that what is on offer isn't really a partnership. It's an investment opportunity without any equity in return.. We've already brought a lot of value to the table in the form of our network. This seems to have been assigned little/no value in this 'partnership' proposal.

When you condense it down to this, it's clear why the majority of Masternodes have voted the way they have.

I - like most Masternode owners i suspect - actually like the underlying idea/concept. It's a very good, real-world use case for the Dash blockchain, however, the value proposition just isn't there with the current deal on the table.

I encourage coinfirm to consider the feedback generated and come back to the network with a revised proposal that actually makes sense for both partners in this deal.. because until the Dash network has the legal framework set up to take equity stakes in these kind of projects I see no way of proposals structured like this will get any funding.

Walter
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0 points,28 days ago
It's a 50/50 split on budget (isn't it?).
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0 points,27 days ago
Yes, sorry Dash contribution $500k not $1m. The other approx. $500k is funded by Coinfirm. However, the budget breakdown is inadequate and looks inflated to me..

"Other Costs (travel, living, hardware, software licences, etc)
$490 000,000"

That's a lot of travel, living, hardware and software! Cripes! It doesn't pass the sniff test that 'other costs' in a $1m total budget breakdown amount to half the budget.. 'Other costs' is sundries in view, amounting to a few thousand dollars.

Walter
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0 points,28 days ago
Apart from using Dash what does Trudatum do that other solutions like Factom don't do?
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1 point,29 days ago
I like it since the main negative about Dash is that it has low tx volume compared to others.
Getting to 2mb soon...we need some big, consistent users.
Sign me up!
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1 point,28 days ago
The reason other coins have higher tx volume is not because other coins are being used by large institutions for storing hashes. Doing this with Dash does not address the root of the criticism
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0 points,29 days ago
Get's the big picture. Thanks for the support buddy.
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0 points,29 days ago
Would a Coinfirm client using Tradatum have any reason to actually buy Dash himself? Or would you be paying the transaction fees on his behalf?
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0 points,29 days ago
We're buying the Dash to pay off the transactions but we're promoting Dash as the platform to be used for future solutions so Dash usage also goes up directly through the clients usage.
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1 point,29 days ago
Very interesting. But this is a lot of money. Would like to see an escrow arrangement before voting yes.
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2 points,28 days ago
I can help serving as an escrow.
I need to have a clear plan, regular meetings and reports shared + payment schedule related to the milestones.
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0 points,28 days ago
i think this would be the best solution for now.
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1 point,29 days ago
Open to the discussion. Hasnt been proposed to us yet. Will talk to the Dash team about it if MN's feel its necessary.
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1 point,27 days ago
No man. The ball is in *your* court. I feel you would significantly improve your chances if you broke this down into smaller chunks, or set up an escrow arrangement, or (the best) did both. The only way you can know if the MNs feel its necessary is for them to reject your proposal, but even then, you can't be sure that's the reason. Wouldn't it be better to act before this happens?
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7 points,1 month ago
If this is intended to be an on-going, profitable business, why should the Dash treasury have to pay for it? I get that it's potentially good for Dash to have more successful ventures built around it but if this is a viable business idea, why not just go ahead and start it? If you just need a business loan to get it off the ground then how about a repayment plan?
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0 points,29 days ago
Because we dont have to use Dash. We're your partner, we want to help you accomplish your goal of being a legit and mass used cryptocurrency and blockchain and not just in the core crypto space. But it's not a necessity. We're choosing to push you as the main and legitimate blockchain to these entities.
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1 point,29 days ago
Coinfirm, what do you mean "we dont have to use Dash?"

Your proposal claims "we have the utmost faith in Dash's platform."

So do you, or don't you? Because if you did, you'd choose to build on Dash whether you got funding or not.
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0 points,29 days ago
Major financial institutions or corporate entities generally dont know what Dash and do not look to Dash to be the blockchain for their solutions. That's why IBM with hyperledger, etc are being brought into large scalable application. If the client wants Hyperledger, we can fight for Dash, or we can not
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2 points,28 days ago
To be honest, if the client is fully informed about the costs and benefits of different solutions you can offer them (which it is in their best interest to be, and which you should be facilitating as a client), and if they want to use hyperledger, then they should get hyperledger. If you will offer multiple solutions but it is cheaper for Coinfirm to is Dash because you've already developed or for whatever reason, then that is just part of the equation on the cost of different offerings. I don't want companies to be pushed unto using a particular solution. They should do whatever is in their best interest out of the available options.
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0 points,29 days ago
You said on the forum, "When it comes to plans if this proposal doesn’t pass, we would probably change our client approach a bit from heavy and time consuming implementation but large and scalable (banks etc) to those who have a better time to revenue ratio."

So we can add "not pushing Dash as the main and legitimate blockchain to these entities" to this as well?

I'm trying to get an idea of who has more leverage here. MNOs please weigh in. If this is not funded, who misses out more - Dash, or Coinfirm?
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0 points,29 days ago
We would change our client approach as we would not try and force Dash to be the blockchain the solution is using. As of right now, theyre not looking to Dash and would rather go with what they view as trusted players such as IBM. We can build this solution on any blockchain that the client wants, its up to us to force Dash. If this is not funded, Dash misses what is up until what I can tell its best entrance into major financial institutions and corporations. Coinfirm loses some time and potential development funds but it won't stop the project at all.
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0 points,28 days ago
The way to answer from coinfirm is similar to how a lobby presses and I do not like that.

The proposal is interesting, the price to do lobbyist not.

Remember that hyperledger (IBM, JPM, Accenture, etc.) deploy and use your technology can be more expensive than Dash. We all know the prices of IBM technology solutions. In addition hyperledger is oriented services in permissioned blockchain vs public blockchain.

One of the characteristics and policy of Dash is that the commission to write in its blockchain is the cheapest possible. And that in the long time will give you a great competitive advantage.

I do not oppose his role as lobbyist, in our hand it remains to decide whether he benefits Dash, but he should reconsider the prices of his proposal, and negotiate with the DAO in another proposal.

Thank you for you proposal
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0 points,29 days ago
I think we (the masternode owners) would be missing out if for no other reason that we are being introduced to genuinely large and powerful players. How much value this project ads to our blockchain is debatable, but I think everyone can agree that having inroads with the powerful players that Coinfirm would bring to the table is a huge positive.
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0 points,29 days ago
Maybe, but Coinfirm's alternative is to pay an extra $500,000 out of pocket or come up with alternative funding if they do not use Dash or push for Dash. Is it really worth $500k to have Coinfirm tell these big players that their service is powered by Dash?
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0 points,28 days ago
correction, their service could be powered by Dash.

If this proposal passes Coinfirm will try to persuede these big players to start using Dash instead of IBM solution. If this proposal does not pass, they will not try to persuede these large players.
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0 points,28 days ago
coinfirm does not loose these large players if this proposal does not pass, they will just go with the solution that those large players already have in mind (most likely IBM) but Dash will be missing out on these large players which bring increased transactions.
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0 points,29 days ago
In my opinion, yes it is worth it.

I take this position because we can. We have the money this month to pay for this. Which is better establish early inroads or just leave the funds unspent ?
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-1 point,29 days ago
Way too much money. You need to start small so the community can trust you. Voting NO.
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0 points,1 month ago
"What we want to implement in the next 7 months

Add the option for multisign by many users for the same file/document"

* Dash does not support multisig at this moment.

quote from pre-proposal :

"As mentioned earlier, Trudatum won't clog or abuse the chain. Files are not stored on blockchain. We store the hash+sig which is around 300bytes transaction. We plan adding support for files when there will be dedicated system for that (ex. Dash Drive)."

* I'm not sure if Dash Drive is intended for that usage

With regards to the rest of this budget proposal i think its an interesting proposal that could give Dash a strong boost in its use of an instant payment provider, while at the same time keeping the size of those transactions very small.
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0 points,29 days ago
Multi- sig would be developed by us, this is an internal process of creating the digital signature in the Trudatum platform. Dash Drive is still a proposition, but in our opinion it's designed exactly for that type of usage.
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0 points,29 days ago
Thank you for clearing that up, i voted yes.
Good luck with your budget proposal.
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0 points,29 days ago
Awesome. Thank you :)
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0 points,1 month ago
Getting clients of that caliber is no easy feat, that's great work.

Corporate's of that size won't do anything fast, and they will be reluctant to be 'first' in on a new technology. Being used by these company's ticks off a milestone for utilisation/integration with major firms, and can be pointed to for future deals.

If they hit 170k tx's a day is about 2 tx per second on average? That seems like it's well within the roadmap for 3 years hence (.... it would be great to see that level of utilisation).

... and they want to use Instantsend with it.

sounds great.

[cross posted from the forum]
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0 points,29 days ago
Thank you. These companies are already using the Dash blockchain, the roadmap for most of these clients is quicker than most aspects like this especially as the urgency and pace of change around blockchain is a lot faster, even for these corporates at this point.
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1 point,1 month ago
I don't mind you using DASH to store data. But why should we pay you 550 DASH x 3?
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0 points,29 days ago
Because we're developing features dedicated to your blockchain, which we don't have to do and can switch to any other type, most importantly we're going to go to bat for Dash with our clients. Large scale clients at that. We're blockchain agnostic, trying to force clients to use Dash when they might want a diff type a lot of the time is a matter of our dedication to you as our partner. Having someone integrating Dash into major companies that otherwise at this current time wouldnt probably consider it even is a valuable asset to Dash's goals. Major financial institutions and companies are not considering Dash or its blockchain, we want to help change that.
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1 point,1 month ago
Where exactly does Dash come into this and what are your development goals, roadmap, etc.?
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0 points,29 days ago
In description/proposal :)
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0 points,1 month ago
Very interesting, could be huge. Probably a yes from me but i still need to kick the tires a bit.
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1 point,29 days ago
Thanks. Generally major traditional companies and financial institutions are currently not considering Dash when talking about blockchain integration. We're actively helping change that. To us the big picture which doesnt have a long timeline is very clear for Dash in this.
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0 points,1 month ago
No escrow with Core or GreenCandle = No from me
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2 points,28 days ago
I can help serving as an escrow from Dash Core side.
I need to have a clear plan, regular meetings and reports shared + payment schedule related to the milestones.
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0 points,28 days ago
I'd love to have you as an escrow but the problem here is the proposal was already submitted. Afaik the payment address cannot be changed after that. I hope I'm wrong.
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1 point,29 days ago
We can discuss that, but it was never proposed to us.
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2 points,1 month ago
Dash has been working with Coinfirm for a long time. I think they have accrued the trust to not require escrow
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1 point,29 days ago
Sure. And Charlie Shrem has a stellar reputation within the crypto space as well. Right?

Besides I haven't seen any proof this is an actual Coinfirm representative.
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2 points,29 days ago
It was proven in the pre proposal and confirmed by the core team. I can send you a selfie from the Coinfirm office with the Coinfirm banner and everything ;)
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1 point,28 days ago
Thank you! I had to take a second look on the forum and since no one from Coinfirm complained about you being an imposter I'll take your presence here as verified. Nothing personal, this is about cold hard cash after all and people tend to get nervous.
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1 point,29 days ago
Not really, Charlie was known to be unreliable when we approved that proposal.
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0 points,28 days ago
Not true. Most of the people who voted for ShremCard explicitly verbalized that they only voted yes because of his past reputation from early Bitcoin days. I personally witnessed this on the forum and on the slack and most importantly I was one of those fooled myself.
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0 points,1 month ago
+1
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-2 points,1 month ago
how exactly is this data stored using our blockchain? I'd like to know how this is safe and secure information and how companies will trust putting personal files and data on your website with full trust in your corporation.
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1 point,29 days ago
We dont save the files. Signature + hash.
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