Proposal “Towers“ (Completed)Back

Title:Integrate Dash into PC/Android/iOS games payment (IAP) with Towers as an example
Owner:DeltaEngine
Monthly amount: 35 DASH (4503 USD)
Completed payments: 4 totaling in 140 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2021-09-12 / 2022-01-09 (added on 2021-09-06)
Votes: 802 Yes / 34 No / 41 Abstain

Proposal description

Summary
We propose to integrate Dash directly in our PC/Android/iOS Real-Time-Strategy game Towers and allow any other game developer to very easily add Dash for In App Purchases (IAP). Back in our last proposal over a year ago with almost 99% yes votes (thanks!) we hinted at our Free To Play game Towers and wanting to do Dash integration back then.
https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersHeroProtectionDome.gif

Update 2021-09-07: New shop screen mockup with prominent placed Dash buttons to show the 25% each player can save on purchases.
Update 2021-09-20: New UI is finished, updated some of the pictures below (new shop, featuring Dash savings)
Update 2021-09-21: Our new website is now live, it is still work in progress, but it helps to give a much better idea the direction we are heading :) https://towersgame.net
Update 2021-09-22: Much more screenshots and updates coming today, first upload to Steam Alpha Developer Days, will go live for anyone to play on Steam October 1st 2021
Update 2021-10-01: So this is the steam link to our game demo, scroll down and click on the green banner to download the demo 
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1673670/Towers/
And here is our towers discord server
https://discord.gg/eDgyyvTjZE
We are looking forward to hear your opinions ☺️ Dash version for PC and Android coming later this month.

https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersShopWithDash.jpg

In this year a lot of interest came back to the cryptocurrency space, the ongoing lawsuit between Epic and Apple might also give us a hint on where the Apple and Google stores are heading (by having to allow apps to provide their own payment options as well) and there is a lot of smaller games, websites and projects that try to add crypto directly into games (like Fun, Enj, RVR, Game, Mana, PolyPlay, Decentraland, Axie Infinity, Battle Racers, cryptokitties and many more). While some of these projects look promising, for normal PC or Android gamers they are mostly unheard of and not really on anyones radar that is not already a crypto junkie. Most projects are websites or have very simplistic graphics or just a very casual gameplay, which doesn't sound interesting to more hardcore gamers. As far as we know all of these project have the crypto aspect first, which is for the much bigger target audience of gamers not very interesting.

Towers
In our game Towers we mainly want to create a fun strategy game experience that is very easy to learn, still hard to master and provides some ways for players to advance, customize via skins, play casually or competitive and either battle each other directly or try to gain higher scores on the leaderboards. We think of strategy games more like a sport that you can watch others play because of their skill. In our opinion this more gamer-focused approach has a much higher chance of reaching a greater audience and is also a much bigger scope than most smaller crypto games have (even though we are still very tiny in the game space). Still Towers is a great usecase for Dash to allow players to purchase, share, tip, donate easily on the Dash blockchain. Our previous game SoulCraft has accumulated more than 40 million downloads over the years and we are of course trying to reach as many players as possible with Towers as well.
https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersWorldmapScreenshot.jpg

Dash will be prominently shown on our main webpage and the initial scene of the game. Also the in-game store, where players actually buy Diamonds (see below) will feature the Dash payment option (via our MyDashWallet api), which is always at least 25% off and will make it the number one choice for any gamer that want to save some money.

Ongoing MyDashWallet improvements and support
Check https://mydashwallet.org/stats for more detailed data
Transactions: 531418 (from 180k last year)
Dash Send: 501646.2 DASH (up 20% this year)
PrivateSend Transactions: 19712 (up 25% this year)
Dash Mixed: 180709 DASH (from 165k last year)
InstantSend Transactions: 9901 (up 25% this year)
Tip Accounts: 22634 (up 330% this year)
Tips: 389893 (up almost 400% this year)
CoinFlips (Bot Game): 15541 (up 1%, almost unused)

Our support for MyDashWallet and the bots is ongoing and while we didn't have much development work this year aside from Twitch and YouTube integration plus the 0.17 Dash network upgrade, we still have to spend some time to support, currently almost daily (seems more users are using the wallet and mixing services again). MyDashWallet is a very successful project that was funded five times already by the Dash DAO with a high approval rate (93-98%). There is over 100 Telegram and 20 Discord servers communities actively using the bot right now ;)

Our Bot Developer (@Xadarius) spent a lot of time on Twitch, YouTube, ongoing support and fixes late 2020 and while we created some proof on concept how things would work, we did not fully integrate In App Purchase into the Towers game yet back then. This was mostly because our game was not done and there was no real reason to buy anything from a store for an unfinished game. Since the beginning of the year we hired 4 additional developers (2 artists and 2 game programmers) and the progress on Towers is finally at a stage were we are ready to release the first public version. In recent months we have beta tested on Android and Steam (PC) and going to release a demo later this month for the Steam Developer Days, which gives us a lot of free visibility, marketing and advertisement (we already got a few thousand views and many Wishlist adds).

MyDashWallet API
Instead of directly integrating Dash into Towers (which we already did in a early mockup version a year ago as a proof of concept), we are going to extend our https://old.mydashwallet.org/api for anyone to integrate Dash into any website, game, app or project. There is already some smaller users and both our new website (https://mydashwallet.org) and some bot functionality is using the api instead of reinventing the wheel. The API allows any game/app/website to:
  • Create unlimited user accounts, each with their own Dash address for easy deposits directly on the blockchain
  • The user private data (private key) can be kept secure in the app or server or shared with the user (like our bot or website do), this is up to the developer, in Towers we won't share this, but give each user an easy way to interact with his Dash
  • The usual methods to check balance, deposit or withdrawal
  • Obviously users in the app (and outside) can easily tip each other, send rains, donate, etc. with their money
  • We are also going to support Dash usernames and any other features of Dash Platform once it goes live on mainnet
Towers - Game Details
Towers is a Multiplayer Real-time strategy (RTS) with Tower Domination as the game mode (most similar game is Mushroom Wars), with a strong focus and coop and user-generated content. Towers is a free to play game, which means anyone can download it on any supported platform for free. Players can buy optionally skins or items via the in-game currency. In our upcoming demo later this month, the multiplayer mode it is very important for us and competitive play. All players have exactly the same abilities (think StarCraft, the most successful multiplayer RTS game, still going strong after 22 years) and cannot buy stronger units or abilities, but instead get skins, graphical modifiers, emotes, etc. to show off. In the singleplayer there are certainly helpful items and abilities you can either play for or just buy to skip grinding or help you to get to higher skill levels.
https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersGrasslandScreenshot.jpg

In the current iteration we getting it to work on the most important platforms Steam and Android & iOS and getting all 40+ Singleplayer Missions done plus recently added Multiplayer support for competitive play. Our team has been developing games for the past 25 years, we have a ton of experience with triple A games on PC, Xbox and Playstation and all the app stores on Consoles, PC and Mobile Phones and Tablets. Our most recent and most successful project was our Diablo-like RPG game SoulCraft (and its spin offs SoulCraft 2 and our Moba Heroes Of SoulCraft), which was downloaded over 40 million times on all platforms and we still support to this day (but don't develop for anymore since 2017).
https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersBridgelevelScreenshot.jpg

See above: One major problem with the Google Play Store, Apple App Store, Steam or pretty much any other platform games are available nowadays, is that they are Walled Gardens. It is simply not yet allowed or possible to integrate any other payment option in any game, free or not. Even streaming services are violating App Store policies. Apple, Google, Amazon and Microsoft are all constantly fighting and game developers simply do not want to fight the rules, this is why you will not find any game on these platforms supporting any cryptocurrency for IAP. We cannot change that fact, but we are still going to release our own .apk and windows installer outside Steam/Google/Apple stores to support all features. We also think there is no problem with Steam or Google anymore if we keep the Dash feature enabled in the released version (as of September 2021), if we have to disable the feature, we will comply and allow users to continue using the separate downloads that do not feature store support. Nothing forbids us from releasing our already free game on our Website, allow people to download the apk for Android (iOS users can't be supported that easily) and use whatever else payment system we like. We think it is a great way to experiment with Cryptocurrencies in games, not just betting or chatting on twitch/youtube/telegram/discord or supporting your favorite caster or producer on Patreon, but simply use it in game all the time like people use Dash on Telegram!

Unlike in our initial plans players do not earn Dash directly, but instead gain Gold and Diamonds, exactly like in the versions for the Steam/Google/Apple stores (there is actually no difference, any account from Steam, Google, Apple or Dash, or unlinked accounts can be linked together the same way MyDashWallet users can do over multiple platforms). Gold is the main in game currency and can be used to buy low level and common items, each player will have tons of it and the more you play, the more you get. Diamonds are very rare and while you get some from time to time and on completion, you will run out if you spend them or constantly want the newest skins and features. So players can buy more Diamonds via the stores or Dash.

However, every Diamond can also be converted back to Dash, which is a very cool feature. It will not be 1:1 as there would be a lot of trouble supporting all currencies, app stores, deals, sales, etc. but instead there will be a simple formula like this in place:
  • Every Diamond is worth $0.20, players usually accumulate 10-30 in their first playthrough, some items cost 1 Diamond, up to maybe 100 for the best stuff. So you basically get free money for just playing (plus in game Gold for all your common in game needs).
  • Players can buy more diamonds with money, $0.99 gives them 5 Diamonds, $2.99 gives them 20 Diamonds, etc.
  • Using Dash gives the player a 25% discount on any purchase (so $0.99 is now only $0.74 in Dash, but gives you the same value)
  • Diamonds stay with the player account, every player can link up as many platforms as they want (so 1 Diamond is the same on PC, Android or iOS obviously)
  • Every player can convert their diamonds back into money via Dash at a 50% rate (1 Diamond gives you $0.10), so if you sell 100 Diamonds into Dash, you get $10 worth of Dash and can withdrawal it within seconds.
  • This Dash is actually on the blockchain and each player has its own Dash account created via our bot api (described above)
  • Any player can send any amount he owns to any other player or any address, its his money and Dash is money!
  • Players can also use their dash (from tips, deposits, selling) and buy more Diamonds if needed
We have the Steam Developer Days demo ready by the end of September and will provide an early preview for the Dash integration by the end of October. This would still be a great usecase for Dash and anyone can simply point to the game and give an example of a game that fully has integrated Dash. Dash is a great currency for a local community or group to send money in between each other, even on-chain, we see this every day with our bots and internal usage. We think this concept also applies to in game currencies of games and it is my strong believe this will dominate all in app purchases in the future as it is so much better than the alternatives (huge fees on payment providers, crazy cuts by publishers and platforms, the cut is 30%). Dash does not have any of these problems, we can send the same one dollar around 50 times without losing even a single cent :)

https://towersgame.net/Images/TowersWildfireScreenshot.jpg

Tournaments & Gaining Dash by Playing
50% of all Dash we will receive from this proposal or get from players through purchases will be reserved to allow paying out users that play and accumulate Diamonds and want to cash them out to Dash (normally buying in app purchase products is a one-way street, so this is one of the biggest changes). Additionally we want to feature twitch.tv gamers that feature the game, run tournaments with Dash price pools and use these funds to drive more marketing efforts, which will benefit the game and of course drive more Dash back into this reserve.

Cost
35 Dash per month (~$7500 at ~$215/Dash (30d moving average) = 6500 euro) for the next 4 months (September - December 2021) + 5 proposal fee reimbursement
This allows our game team to justify spending much more time on the shop, Dash integration, marketing plus ongoing support for MyDashWallet and the API. If the Dash price appreciates even more, we will have a longer supported development window and more funds for tournaments, marketing, and allowing users to get Dash from playing.

Feedback welcome, you can also contact me any time on Telegram or Discord or drop us an email at Support@TowersGame.net
PS: We are still updating the pictures here, new Hero is coming this week (see preview above), new website is being worked on and we will update all screenshots once we have our new stuff ready, our preparation for Steam Developer Days is eating up most of our time aside from improvements from our weekly alpha tests.

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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2 points,3 months ago
Maybe you can post updates to the dash forum and r/dashpay?
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1 point,3 months ago
Good idea, thanks. Will do right now.
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
Here are the links:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/q0gyih/development_update_on_towers_and_dash_iap/
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/development-update-on-towers-and-dash-iap-integration.52184/

Most updates/activity is on the Towers discord: https://discord.gg/eDgyyvTjZE
Reply
-4 points,3 months ago
Replying to TroyDash:

>Then I would advise you to test your theory by not donating and getting all the other MNOs to stop donating until he does what you want. I'll be waiting

No! Until Rango does something about it I will continue to alert the rest of the MNOs to the fact that there are those without MNs commenting here. If you don't like it then SHUT UP AND GO AWAY!

You can keep waiting, I'm going to continue calling out your friends who are abusing the site and demanding that Rango fix things until they stop and he does. It is completely inappropriate for non-MNOs to comment here and YOU KNOW IT!
Reply
-5 points,3 months ago
Reply to TroyDash Below:

>We agree about the importance of preventing trolling,

Apparently we don't because you wish to get around the sybil-resistance that the MNs provide by allowing 'popular people' to comment. That's why we have MNs, so we don't have to rely on 'popularity' but SKIN IN THE GAME. If you don't have that then you shouldn't comment! PERIOD!

>and you have taken it upon yourself to rehash the argument

What do you mean 'rehash'? You can only rehash an argument that has been settled...I JUST FOUND OUT that agnew doesn't have a MN, that means his years of comments are all invalid! YOU SHOULD ONLY COMMENT HERE IF YOU HAVE A MN! That helps to prevent COI like being bought off, or 'selling your username'. You should NOT want to allow non-MNOs to comment!

>comment limitations practically every time someone without a tag posts something

You're the one who keeps resisting despite knowing and admitting that you're in the wrong. You ADMIT that you shouldn't be able to post 'just because you're a former PO', but agnew himself states that that's the only reason he can post, SO YOU SHOULD"VE SHUT UP 20 COMMENTS AGO. But you won't stop.

And now you're blaming your refusal to admit you're wrong on me, so you're gaslighting me. Thanks for further proving that you're a bad actor.

>in the section of the site that is supposed to be used for proposal discussion.

Whether or not someone who is commenting should be commenting is VERY RELEVANT TO PROPOSALS. HEY GENIUS, IF SOMEONE POSTS FUD AND THEY'RE PRETENDING TO BE A MNO, THEN THAT MEANS DAOS MIGHT GET DEFUNDED BY SOMEONE WHO SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

You should be concerned about that. BUT YOU'RE NOT BECAUSE YOU SOLD US OUT.

>Not every non-MNO is a troll

Of course not, I never called every mno a troll so that's a straw man. Another dishonest debating tactic from a dishonest person.

>and having a different opinion about a proposal than you do doesn't make them a troll either.

I never said that either which means you're arguing against another strawman.
Reply
-4 points,3 months ago
Replying to TroyDash below:

>but we didn't need one before when Rango was asked to limit comments?

That question isn't fair for you to ask me, because I wasn't in charge of the process nor of that decision. But you do recognize that that decision was necessary and agreed upon by the MNs. So you can't use this as evidence to go against the rest of the network, that's a bad argument.

You're saying, 'well there was no decentralized process' so you can ignore the results and allow non-MNOs to comment? That is not a logical conclusion to draw.

> You didn't use a decentralized process then

Why are you saying 'You'? I didn't make the rules the first time, I'm only representing the decision here. It is TRUE that we did not want non-MNOs to comment. There has been no such move to allow them to comment, so the situations are not even the same for you to make that argument, either. I.e. you're arguing disingenuously.

>There was never a decentralized vote to decide to limit comments in the first place.

This comment assumes that 'a vote' is the only way for MNOs to make their voices heard. This is NOT CORRECT!

This site is maintained EXCLUSIVELY by MNO donations and there's usually only 5 or 6 of them. So if enough of us decide 'enough is enough' and don't want non-MNOs commenting, then Rango who is paid by those MNOs, has a responsibility to do so. It was not 'an executive decision', you're gaslighting me. The 'whitelisting' was an executive decision by Rango, him limiting comments was a decision by MNOs.

>Your opinions on who should be allowed to comment are nothing more than opinions

Incorrect. The DAO is designed to rely on the sybil-resistance of owning 1000 Dash in order to prevent bad actors from manipulating things that MNs do. One of those functions is the function of governance, which includes voting. So my 'opinions' are not only backed up by previous MNO decisions, but also by the spirit of the network.

You are twisting everything you can in order to allow non-MNOs to be able to comment here and have the same influence as MNOs, which is against the network's desires. There's no way around this, you're deliberately taking a position that is in the worst interests of the network, likely for money.

>The fact that no one has been coming to your defense these last few months is telling.

That's not true, and the fact that you would rely on such a vacuous argument is what's really telling.

in r/Dashpay, the user 'TrustlessMoney' agreed that these comments are necessary to prevent trolls from ruining our processes. What's more, this isn't a popularity contest. You can't say 'no one comes to your defense', when has anyone ever come to my defense?

I don't win arguments by popular vote, I win arguments because I'M RIGHT and YOU'RE WRONG. I don't need anyone to support me to prove that and you know it. Again, relying on such a thing is completely inappropriate in an argument such as this, where only the merit of your position matters.
Reply
5 points,3 months ago
If you feel that Rango has a responsibility to listen to you, take it up with Rango. Your decision to take matters into your own hands and derail the conversation off the topic every time someone without a MNO tag makes a comment is what is inappropriate. And so are your accusations about other people accepting money for saying their opinion, it is a totally unhinged accusation with no basis in fact. Destroys all your credibility when you falsely accuse people...
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-5 points,3 months ago
>If you feel that Rango has a responsibility to listen to you, take it up with Rango.

Already done. But what relevance does this have? Rango made the change not because I requested it, but because the rest of the MNOs did. You personalizing this to me is dishonest and shows your lackluster position. You're pretending like I'm the only one who wanted this change just because I'm the only one currently fighting for the spirit of it. That is disingenuous.

>our decision to take matters into your own hands and derail the conversation off the topic

It is NOT derailing the conversation. Agnewpickens pretended to be a MNO for YEARS! He has been fudding Venezuelan proposals for quite some time now and he DOESN'T HAVE A MASTERNODE! That is extremely relevant and you are LYING by pretending its not!

There is nothing inappropriate about wanting to make sure the only people commenting have skin in the game. What's truly inappropriate is you trying to give non-MNOs the same voice and influence that MNOs have. That is completely against the best interests of the network due to bad actors being able to abuse it and thus its also completely out-of-line for you to support.

>And so are your accusations about other people accepting money for saying their opinion,

There is no other explanation for that behavior. Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the truth. There is no logical reason why someone who has invested tens of thousands of dollars would want to give voice to someone who hasn't. It just defies common sense. The only way you could do that is if someone paid you to do so while pretending to still be a good actor.

You are here gaslighting everyone by blatantly pretending that its perfectly fine for people without Masternodes to comment here, even though YOU KNOW THE DAMAGE those people have done in the past. The only way you could reasonably be presumed to be able to do such a thing, is if you were paid to do so and had a conflict of interest. Its not like COI is rare and corruption is 'a conspiracy theory'. It happens all the time.

>Destroys all your credibility when you falsely accuse people...

You haven't proven my accusations were false and the fact that TanteStefana and you for example refuse to answer whether or not you have been paid for your comments doesn't help either. Claiming something as true that you haven't proven destroys your credibility...

Also, you have a misunderstanding. My credibility doesn't come from always being right, that's just a side-effect of my argumentation style. My credibility comes from the fact that I can reasonably and reliably wittle away at scammers, shills and people using emotional manipulation.
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3 points,3 months ago
No, Agnew has never pretended to be a MNO. He is a delegate which as far as I'm concerned is just as valid as having a MN. He gets to vote in our DAO, so he should definitely be allowed to comment on the proposals he is voting on no matter what, even if you don't like the whitelisting.

"refuse to answer whether or not you have been paid for your comments"

We both already answered you. Taste said "same as mastermined", and I said "falsely accuse", so yes. Not that you believe a damn word anyone says, so it doesn't make a lick of difference.

In your mind, thinking that a whitelisting system for known community members is such a crazy idea that there can be no explanation for it other than being paid to say that. This is extremely closed-minded and it is frankly a waste of time talking to you.
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-4 points,3 months ago
>No, Agnew has never pretended to be a MNO.

It is dishonest for you to defend him. He should defend himself. And yes he did. He would say things like 'I will vote No with my votes' which is clearly meant to lead others to think that he has multiple MNs and skin in the game. He doesn't have any MNs, so him commenting here is a conflict of interest, and pretending like he does by saying things like that is downright dishonest. You become dishonest when you take up for him.

>He is a delegate which as far as I'm concerned is just as valid as having a MN.

So why is he the only one? Because he used to have a proposal that's it. That's not fair to the other delegates who never made proposals and can't vote. You are deliberately not only arguing for non-MNOs to be able to comment, but only 'special ones' that are both delegate voters and former POs...You don't have the right to do that.

>even if you don't like the whitelisting.

He's not here because he's whitelisted, he's here because he had a proposal in the past that failed. So no, he shouldn't be. We never agreed to allow delegate voters to comment, and indeed THEY CAN'T. The only reason agnew can is because he had a proposal. Him commenting on other proposals is a conflict of interest.

>We both already answered you.

You may have in the past, but Tante did not. I didn't ask mastermined so he couldn'tve answered. Further, he didn't answer he just copy and pasted my comment. So TanteStefana saying 'Same as mastermined' is just her saying 'I copy and paste your comment just like mastermined'. Nice trick but I'm not falling for it. You guys really are childish. But thanks for proving you're working together by carrying their water for them.

>and I said "falsely accuse", so yes.

Asking a question is not an accusation, and that question was deliberately avoided and ignored multiple times which indicates the answer is not favorable. You don't have to believe it, but you're likely paid not to believe certain things so that's worthless to the rest of the network.

>In your mind, thinking that a whitelisting system for known community members is such a crazy idea that there can be no explanation for it other than being paid to say that.

AGNEW IS NOT HERE BECAUSE HE'S WHITELISTED HE'S HERE BECAUSE HE'S A FORMER PO. IT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO ALLOW FORMER (FAILED) POS TO COMMENT ON OTHER PROPOSALS.

>This is extremely closed-minded and it is frankly a waste of time talking to you.

Yeah sure, whatever. You're advocating for shills and trolling. You're despicable. Do us both a favor and just shut up already.
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1 point,3 months ago
I agree that former POs should not be commenting just because they are former POs. They should have to get whitelisted first. But I have no issue with whitelisting any delegate voter or anyone else who is a known community member who has insights to offer, stays on topic and doesn't abuse their posting privileges.
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-3 points,3 months ago
>I agree that former POs should not be commenting just because they are former POs.

That is THE ONLY REASON that agnew can comment here. By supporting him YOU ARE SUPPORT TROLLING.

Whitelisting is neither here nor there. Agnewpickens has fudded many proposals under the pretense of having a masternode and YOU HELPED HIM! That's grounds for punitive action (upto and including dismissal from the network). Just because there isn't the appetite to do this *right now*, doesn't mean it won't be there in the future. Careful.
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1 point,3 months ago
"The only reason"
You don't think Rango would have whitelisted him, a delegate voter? Give me a break
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-2 points,3 months ago
Agnew himself admitted the only reason he can post is because he's a former PO. Regardless, whitelisting shouldn't 'be up to Rango', it should be up to the MNOs (say, the current donating ones would be a good start), it should be on a proposal-by-proposal basis (not a lifetime, blanket pass), rotated monthly and extremely restricted/hard to get access to. Whatever extra functionality this requires, Rango should put up a donation address specifically so he can add it to the site.

An example of an exceptable whitelisting would be, say a DCG developer commenting on an DCG development proposal to clarify something. That person shouldn't be able to post on just ANY proposal, only specific ones. Or say an incubator dev wanted to comment on *the incubator proposal*.

Furthermore, whitelisted members should be required to have a MNO or *CURRENT PO* vouch for/introduce them. That's how they should get introduced, they appeal to a MNO or PO for whitelisting to comment on a specific proposal for a specific reason (both of which must be specified). So, for example that incubator dev would appeal to the current incubator PO to receive a whitelisting.

That MNO/PO would nominate them for a whitelisting FOR THAT MONTH AND THAT PROPOSAL, and the 5-10 donating MNOs should have a vote on it (informal, can take place in the front chat), and Rango should follow their vote. Simple, decentralized and NO CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

If you were serious about Dash and serious about not being a bad actor, this is the BARE MINIMUM that you would require and find acceptable in a whitelisting. Agnew doesn't meet ANY of these requirements. That's how I can tell you have bad motivations in supporting this. You haven't even thought of what's proper and improper in these regards.
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1 point,3 months ago
Well I would vouch for him and it wouldn't be hard to find more than dozen other MNOs who would do the same. Not to mention the MNO who DELEGATED their vote to him which if that isn't an endorsement I don't know what is.
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-2 points,3 months ago
You misunderstand, whitelisting shouldn't be to allow anyone to comment just because 'they're cool'. It should be limited to people who are directly related to the current proposal. What right does agnew have to try to influence the vote on proposals in Venezuela? No matter how you slice it, that's a HUGE conflict of interest. Agnew was behind the 'DashCamLife' proposal, which was supposed to bring 'paid sex work' to the Dash network (yeesh).

That proposal was NOT funded, which gives agnew an incentive to retaliate against the POs in Venezuela. Agnew should only be whitelisted if he's related to a proposal and has someone related TO THAT PROPOSAL to vouch for him and his contribution to it. Otherwise he should remain silent.

The entire point of having masternodes do governance is so that we have a sybil-resistant way to distribute blockchain rewards. Limiting comments to POs, MNOs and commenters directly related to the PO ONLY is a large part of that. Blanket-whitelisting is not in the network's best interests at all!
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-3 points,3 months ago
This isn't an election, you shouldn't be able to comment just because you got 'an endorsement'. Not having a MN or being the current PO should DISQUALIFY EVERYONE FROM COMMENTING. Only people who are directly related to the proposal and recommended by the PO should be able to comment on that SPECIFIC proposal.

There shouldn't be a mechanism to 'elect community members to comment'. There is no benefit in allowing people who don't have masternodes to comment and only downside, like trolling and conflict of interest.
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2 points,3 months ago
I respect your opinion on this but I disagree, and the appropriate place to make a stink about it is NOT in the comments section of proposals. You are derailing conversations about the actual proposals in order to talk about your own pet peeve about how Rango runs the site. If you can find an ounce of graciousness somewhere in your soul, please just accept that this is how it is. The comments section is not the place to do this. It is disrespectful to the PO and all the other thread participants.
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-2 points,3 months ago
>and the appropriate place to make a stink about it is NOT in the comments section of proposals

I completely disagree. This is the PERFECT PLACE to make a stink about it.

AGNEWPICKENS DOES NOT HAVE A MN, so he shouldn't be allowed to comment here. Any whitelisting should be strictly limited to avoid trolling. These are the basics, if you don't like it then you have a problem. Preventing trolling is priority #1. Spam-resistance is REALLY IMPORTANT. For networks and for comments.

>You are derailing conversations about the actual proposals

I am NOT DERAILING ANYTHING. Just like a referee that calls a foul isn't 'delaying the game'. That's their job. You should be on my side, but you likely have a conflict of interest.

>your own pet peeve

Its not 'my own pet peeve' other MNOs agree with me. Preventing trolling is a really big deal and you expose your nefarious motivations by wishing to allow it.

>If you can find an ounce of graciousness somewhere in your soul,

Oh just shut the fuck up would you? You are despicable!

>The comments section is not the place to do this. It is disrespectful to the PO and all the other thread participants.

This is exactly the place to do this and I REJECT AND DENY YOU!

Preventing trolling is very important, we have people without MNs (and some with them) FUDDING PROPOSALS, and YOU'RE HELPING THEM.

You disrepect the network when you allow liars, trolls and deceptive people to comment!
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1 point,3 months ago
We agree about the importance of preventing trolling, but you think that preventing trolling requires tighter limitations than I do, and you have taken it upon yourself to rehash the argument over comment limitations practically every time someone without a tag posts something, in the section of the site that is supposed to be used for proposal discussion. Not every non-MNO is a troll, and having a different opinion about a proposal than you do doesn't make them a troll either.
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-3 points,3 months ago
>We agree about the importance of preventing trolling,

Apparently we don't because you wish to get around the sybil-resistance that the MNs provide by allowing 'popular people' to comment. That's why we have MNs, so we don't have to rely on 'popularity' but SKIN IN THE GAME. If you don't have that then you shouldn't comment! PERIOD!

>and you have taken it upon yourself to rehash the argument

What do you mean 'rehash'? You can only rehash an argument that has been settled...I JUST FOUND OUT that agnew doesn't have a MN, that means his years of comments are all invalid! YOU SHOULD ONLY COMMENT HERE IF YOU HAVE A MN! That helps to prevent COI like being bought off, or 'selling your username'. You should NOT want to allow non-MNOs to comment!

>comment limitations practically every time someone without a tag posts something

You're the one who keeps resisting despite knowing and admitting that you're in the wrong. You ADMIT that you shouldn't be able to post 'just because you're a former PO', but agnew himself states that that's the only reason he can post, SO YOU SHOULD"VE SHUT UP 20 COMMENTS AGO. But you won't stop.

And now you're blaming your refusal to admit you're wrong on me, so you're gaslighting me. Thanks for further proving that you're a bad actor.

>in the section of the site that is supposed to be used for proposal discussion.

Whether or not someone who is commenting should be commenting is VERY RELEVANT TO PROPOSALS. HEY GENIUS, IF SOMEONE POSTS FUD AND THEY'RE PRETENDING TO BE A MNO, THEN THAT MEANS DAOS MIGHT GET DEFUNDED BY SOMEONE WHO SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

You should be concerned about that. BUT YOU'RE NOT BECAUSE YOU SOLD US OUT.

>Not every non-MNO is a troll

Of course not, I never called every mno a troll so that's a straw man. Another dishonest debating tactic from a dishonest person.

>and having a different opinion about a proposal than you do doesn't make them a troll either.

I never said that either which means you're arguing against another strawman.
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-2 points,3 months ago
*acceptable whitelisting

Another benefit of this is that it not only increases MNO participation, but it is in Rango's best interest to do this as well, since it will mean there is now much more incentive to donate than just having a DC sticker next to your name.

Donating masternodes now would have the ability to participate directly in the administration of this site as it should be, by voting for anyone who wishes to be whitelisted to comment. This also further leverages the beautiful sybil-resistance granted to us by the MNOs. By relying on a subset of donating MNOs, we place the responsibility for whitelisted comments at the feet of the people it belongs at: MNOs.

It shouldn't be up to Rango who gets whitelisted or not. That should be an open, decentralized, and permissionless decision. Leaving it up to a central point of failure is ripe for abuse, and as we can see with agnew pretending to be a MNO while having NO MASTERNODES, it is already a problem.
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-2 points,3 months ago
No! Until Rango does something about it I will continue to alert the rest of the MNOs to the fact that there are those without MNs commenting here. If you don't like it then SHUT UP AND GO AWAY!
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2 points,3 months ago
Why do you need to alert us, we can already see who has a MNO tag and who doesn't. If someone wants to not listen to anyone who doesn't have a tag, they can already do that without your help.
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-2 points,3 months ago
>Why do you need to alert us, we can already see who has a MNO tag and who doesn't.

Because not all MNOs will know. I didn't know that agnewpickens was only here because he had a former PO. Why are you defending that?
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1 point,3 months ago
Maybe you should have paid more attention? There is no MNO tag, it's pretty obvious man.
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-3 points,3 months ago
He commented many times saying things like 'Voting no with my nodes'. See? You're doing that thing where trolls blame their trickery on you for maximum emotional damage. You shouldn't do that!
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-2 points,3 months ago
Also donations should be signed with one's MN signing key. Let's really make this thing decentralized, permissionless and trustless!
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1 point,3 months ago
Voting no with my voting keys would have been be more accurate. But that doesn't take away from the fact that if you don't trust anyone who hasn't verified a MN, then just don't listen to anything anyone without a tag says, it's very simple.
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-1 point,3 months ago
>Voting no with my voting keys would have been be more accurate.

Yeah no shit. You're taking up for a liar which makes you a liar.

>it's very simple

Its even simpler. If you don't have a MN, DON'T COMMENT!
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-3 points,3 months ago
Saying 'voting no with MY NODES' is a deliberate falsehood designed to be as misleading as possible, i.e. to make other MNOs think he has multiple MNs which is lots of skin in the game. That is deceptive and you are deceptive for making excuses for it. You should be ashamed of yourself!
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1 point,3 months ago
Well this site isn't decentralized or permissionless or trustless, and it does not appear that it is ever going to be. I would love for there to be such a thing but there isn't. This is the best we have at the moment, and it is impossible to implement any new features here without Rango. Personally I think we need to move past DC, it's a honeypot just waiting for MNOs potentially identifying information to be leaked. But until there is a better solution, Rango is king here.
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-2 points,3 months ago
>Well this site isn't decentralized or permissionless or trustless,

It doesn't matter if the site isn't as long as what it facilitates is. MNO voting is decentralized and permissionless and trustless, with or without this site. This site just makes things easier. So it should be with the comments, its possible to do it in a way that is sybil resistant by relying on currently donating MNOs, so it should be.

>and it does not appear that it is ever going to be.

That's just your opinion. If enough donating MNOs agree that its a good idea, Rango will have no choice but to implement it.

>I would love for there to be such a thing but there isn't.

You're being fatalistic and denialist for no reason, probably because having such a simple change would remove what you're paid to protect, non-mno trolls commenting.

>and it is impossible to implement any new features here without Rango.

Look at how defeatist your attitude is. Pathetic.

>Rango is king here.

Rango is NOT king. You must've never read the donation page:

"DashCentral needs some fuel to keep it's engines humming. We are relying on your contribution"

And

"We want to avoid a regular subscription model, in order to keep this site and it's features open for everybody. This site is fueled soley by your donations. "

Rango is not king here AT ALL. Not by a longshot.
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1 point,3 months ago
Then I would advise you to test your theory by not donating and getting all the other MNOs to stop donating until he does what you want. I'll be waiting
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0 points,4 months ago
I'm sorry, but I have to vote no for the following reasons despite liking strategy games:

1. It sounds like you already got funding and delivered nothing of what was promised beyond a mockup with Dash.
2. Neither paid mobile games nor strategy games are all that popular. Though your ask is small, it's unlikely to do anything for Dash.
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2 points,3 months ago
Hey, thanks for the comment. We just updated some screenshots and the in-game shop to give a better insight on how Dash is integrated.

1. We have zero funding for the game and no publisher, keeps us free on what we want to do, but also doesn't give us much headroom on any marketing, integration or delays. Sorry we didn't explain the Dash integration well, not sure if I can convince you in a comment. If you like strategy games, you can try it out yourself, we are uploading the first alpha today on Steam and you can get a free version by just messaging me (or writing to support@towersgame.net).

2. Towers is not a paid game, not sure where you got that impression from, we say free all over the place. You are right about strategy games not being that popular right now and that is our main pitch to deliver something that is not in the market and hopefully it helps us getting featured on the Steam Developer days in October. We want to feature Dash and even if this proposal fails, a demo with some basic Dash support will be available and we hope it gives everyone an idea and insight how it all works.
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-5 points,4 months ago
I've seen you fud other promising proposals before. Noted.
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3 points,3 months ago
I've seen you fud other promising proposals before. Noted.
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-3 points,3 months ago
Where?
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2 points,3 months ago
Every_Where!
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-2 points,3 months ago
That is not an argument. This is a serious discussion and should be taken seriously. The fact that you guys want to 'make jokes' and drag the discussion down from that level is likely an attempt for you to hide your motivations and affiliations.

But its not working. When you pulled that little stunt yesterday to hide Tantestefana's conflict of interest, it was quite clear that you're all working together. Shameful, you should all be as disgusted with yourselves as I am. If only because you got caught.

Being a shill asshole is fun, when nobody suspects what you're doing. It probably feels GREAT getting over on other people and tricking them, especially if they're someone like me who doesn't inspire feelings of friendliness in others.

But the fact that I saw right through your plan even while giving you enough rope to hang yourselves should definitely be counted as a failure by you and your team. No other way around it, you guys are idiots and failures. The point of shilling is that you're not supposed to get caught, dumbass.
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2 points,4 months ago
First of all, thanks for the tipping bot! AFAIK, you're not collecting any revenue from it, so for that alone, I'd support a proposal for ongoing support and development, even though I'm a bit disappointed that not more had come out of the Twitch/YouTube integration, see my earlier question, now on the bottom.

I find games like made for crypto-based microtransactions, so I do like this idea a lot. Unfortunately, both Apple and Google block that use case. You wrote about it in your proposal. I'm sure you're also aware of the Apple/Epic trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Apple where Apple's practices got confirmed for the most part. Do you think this situation will change?

It sounds like the game is nearly finished. Is this funding request used for development of the game itself or only to integrate Dash into it, i.e. if the proposal failed, you'd still release it, but without Dash?

Are you hoping this to become a profitable product for DeltaEngine, i.e. is the plan to have game revenue pay for ongoing support? If so, at what usage numbers (MAU, txs, etc.) would you break even? Can you comment on the commercial viability of a mobile game that is excluded from the two dominating app stores?

You wrote "We also think there is no problem with Steam or Google anymore". I haven't followed the news there closely, but I was under the impression that Google enforces a similar policy as Apple. Why would Google not be a problem anymore?
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0 points,3 months ago
Hey MasterNoodle, thanks for the additional comment and details. You are also right about Apple and Google still blocking any other payment provider (except for the latest development that realworld usages and outside app purchases ala Uber, eScooters, subscriptions, food, orders, etc. are allowed to circumvent the default payment system). We discuss this a lot in our team and are willing to try out some ideas. Due to 50% conversion rate from Diamonds back to Dash we might have some wiggle room even in case Google or Apple are blocking us from allowing users using Dash inside the game (maybe can just pay them their 15% or 30% and they still let it fly, that is our current approach at least).

For the demo we are finishing by next week our most important goal is to see if players like the game as much as we do, especially the multiplayer is getting more and more addictive. If we can get Dash on board, that would be a big plus and motivate us to push much more in that direction.

The comment about Steam and Google not banning cryptocurrency integration into apps was unrelated to In App Purchases, sorry for being confusing about this, Apple is still very difficult, Google was also in the past, but has relaxed a lot of rules on apps, Ads, etc. Since we don't know any games that allow users to use crypto beside normal in app purchases, we can't know how they will react, it is not easy, that is why we want to spent some time on this, integrate it in a useful way for players and find a way with the providers.
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-8 points,4 months ago
Does anyone know if MasterNoodle has a MN or not? He refuses to answer my question about it...
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1 point,3 months ago
I can't imagine why...
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-2 points,3 months ago
Me either. Only Masternode owners should comment here. It really makes things worse when we allow pretenders to influence the discussion.....
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1 point,4 months ago
Although I am a fan of deltaengine's work on mydashwallet, I'm not seeing where the value-add will be for this. To me it sounds like we're just doing this because we "can", as opposed to addressing a real market demand. I dont think that exclusive dash-integration into games is going to be the way to go. Players and devs want to be able to pay for things and receive payments in whatever currency they want. If we want to get a foothold into gaming then I would prefer us to be part of a multi-coin/coin-agnostic solution, which could potentially still give dash a slight advantage because of its speed. No one is going to be interested in copying this dash-exclusive solution; the only reason it is being considered in this case is because the game dev is already a dash enthusiast. So I am planning to pass on this one -
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2 points,4 months ago
Hey Troy, yes we agree this is not an easy or straightforward way to convince players to use Dash. We basically just in a state where the game is released in a few weeks and want to try out Dash for payments.

Our main issue is that google/steam/apple will just not like what we are doing and force us to remove any hint of Dash from the game and then the Dash version of the game is only available on our website (PC and Android). Aside from that we see no issue in implementing it or getting players excited about saving 25%, at least people will ask about it and question how to get these Dash to make cheaper purchases. After that it is learning by doing, I think we all agree that we like Dash because it is so much easier, faster and more enjoyable to use as compared to most other crypto (and non-crypto) solutions, but that still requires you to be "in Dash".

Not sure why you are saying our game would be a dash-exclusive solution, we are open to all payment providers and also all cryptocurrencies, we don't really care. Dash just makes most sense as a on-chain blockchain payment provider, that is why we want to start here and try it out.
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-6 points,4 months ago
What a silly thing to say. MNOs are NOT tasked with limiting proposals on what they can do, or "what they think will be 'the way to go'". We're only supposed to confirm whether or not a PO is faithful and honest in their work, that's it. Expanding Dash in another vertical like game payments is the exact kind of thing the network should engage in.

I must ask, have you been paid or otherwise compensated for any of your comments including this one on DashCentral? It is completely inappropriate for A MNO to fud a proposal with their SUPPOSITIONS.
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1 point,3 months ago
I must ask, have you been paid or otherwise compensated for any of your comments including this one on DashCentral? It is completely inappropriate for A MNO to fud a proposal with their SUPPOSITIONS.
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1 point,4 months ago
Really? LOL Pot calling the kettle black, only the pot is the blackest of all!
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-1 point,4 months ago
Can you show where I have fudded a proposal with supposition?
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-5 points,4 months ago
Furthermore, I noticed last time you didn't answer this question so while I have you here I'll repeat it:

Have you ever been paid or otherwise remunerated for your commentary here in DashCentral?

In order to avoid being hypocritical allow me to go first. I have NEVER been paid, remunerated or otherwise compensated for expressing an opinion, engaging with other MNOs or otherwise posting in DashCentral.
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3 points,3 months ago
Furthermore, I noticed last time you didn't answer this question so while I have you here I'll repeat it:

Have you ever been paid or otherwise remunerated for your commentary here in DashCentral?

In order to avoid being hypocritical allow me to go first. I have NEVER been paid, remunerated or otherwise compensated for expressing an opinion, engaging with other MNOs or otherwise posting in DashCentral.
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-3 points,3 months ago
Why are you just repeating what I said? I already answered that question. You guys are really childish and you show I was correct, you're not adults. You aren't grown ups. You think you can take bribes and there will be no consequences because 'Well, they won't know I'm lying'. Yes, yes we do.
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2 points,3 months ago
I find your reply very suspicious.
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-2 points,3 months ago
I find the fact that you tried to give TanteStefana cover by pretending to answer the question while actually not doing so, just so she could say 'same as Mastermined' without actually answering the question, I find that very suspicious.

You see? It's hard to paint someone as an irrational conspiracy theorist when they always argue from evidence and logical conclusions.

Thank you very much for providing the baseless conspiracies spouted by an idiot as a necessary contrast to my well-founded and evidenced suspicions based on your actions, words you say and most importantly words you DON'T SAY.
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0 points,3 months ago
same as Mastermined

And for the record, I wish all community members could and especially would engage in proposal conversations. This is where I get my most insight on what a proposal is all about.
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-2 points,3 months ago
You have not yet answered the question. Mastermined just repeated my post, that is not an answer. I formally request you answer this question.
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7 points,4 months ago
If someone's work involves faithfully and honestly doing something that I don't see as benefiting Dash strategically, then it doesn't matter if they are faithful and honest, I'm not going to vote for something I think is wasteful.

It's frustrating and unproductive to discuss issues with someone who always questions your intentions whenever you have a different opinion. It happens all the time with you. As such, I am not going to continue to engage with you here.
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-3 points,4 months ago
> that I don't see as benefiting Dash strategically

How can you possibly think that exposing people to a fun game that extends our already existing infrastructure (mydashwallet) can be anything but a benefit to dash strategically??

Mydashwallet is an important part of the Dash network, so off the bat, anything that ties into and expands its usage is a win for the Dash network. Just from that alone I can dismiss the rest of your comment.

>think is wasteful.

How can it be 'wasteful'? You don't know it won't succeed so you can't assume it will be a waste. There is no evidence of fraud so there is no reason to ASSUME it will fail and be a waste. You see, you are not being honest in your arguments.

I can tell by your assumptions that you have ulterior motives. If you were the same as me, only motivated to benefit the Dash network, then your motivations for commenting would be the same as mine. And you wouldn't assume things that are not true as being so. The fact that you do indicates you have a nefarious agenda. I've accused you of this before so this is at least the second time you've tripped my shill radar.

>It's frustrating and unproductive to discuss issues with someone who always questions your intentions whenever you have a different opinion.

That is CLEARLY not what I'm doing. I have had differing opinions with many others here and I've never questioned their intentions. Qwizzie, Ryan Taylor, quantum explorer, and others I have openly disagreed with without questioning their intentions. You clearly are not being honest with your commentary.

You're basically fudding and poo-pooing Dash's entry into gaming all based on your supposition. How can you not see that as justification of questioning your motives?? If you really cared about Dash you would support people trying to expand Dash's usage. But here you are, attacking a proposal using BULLSHIT REASONING.

It "happens all the time" with me because you're not being honest and have sold out the community. You disgrace yourself by appearing here and validating my warnings about 'Conflict of interest' being our greatest threat. You are wise to run with your tail between your legs, you have been thrashed every time we've engaged.
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-4 points,4 months ago
I also noticed you didn't answer the question.
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0 points,4 months ago
Yes from me, good luck with your budget proposal.
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0 points,4 months ago
Thanks :)
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-10 points,4 months ago
I just want to point out something that has been simmering for a while now. It is inappropriate for ANYONE other than the current proposal owner or a *current* masternode owner to post comments here. There really is no other way to say it. If you don't belong to either group, you should remain silent. It is a conflict of interest for ANYONE ELSE to comment here.

For example, this is an excellent proposal, yet we have three FUD comments from non-verified MNOs (I include GMD until he provides proof that he is a MNO) who also are not the PO, Grandmasterdash, masternoodle, and agnewpickens.

Agnew admits that he does not have a masternode and can only comment because he's a 'former PO'. This represents a conflict of interest. A former PO that was defunded or who didn't get funded in the first place, has incentives to 'retaliate' against the network. Just like if you blow the whistle in a big corporation, you can expect they will 'retaliate'. Not in an obvious, legally-actionable manner of course. But you will be blacklisted for projects, shunned in meetings, etc. This is the kind of behavior we are seeing currently and have seen in the past.

When Ben Swann was defunded in 2018 IIRC, Joel Valenzuela, who was then being paid from the DAO for the DFN proposal, went on an entire RETALIATION CAMPAIGN. He not only attacked kuvacash (which ended up turning out terrible as well. Two sides, same coin?), but he also got proposals kicked out of Dashboost by hogging those funds as well even though he was getting paid from the treasury too (DashHaiti was denied funds because of this). Not only that, but he further split the discord with his minions. He was defunded for these behaviors and more.

Now obviously, he can't retaliate OPENLY. But like corporate, you can expect subversive, destructive behavior from him. Which is why I argued against his most recent proposal. Looking forward to seeing the chaos that causes down the line. The point is, THESE ARE THE THINGS WE HAVE TO CONSIDER AS MNOS.

We can't be naive and 'trusting in the good nature' of people, because these feelings are the feelings that trolls and shills seek to take advantage of. I know because they've repeatedly tried it with me. They've tried to get me to believe lies that they thought I couldn't see through, or to 'trust' someone who they knew was lying. Why?

Because when you TRICK SOMEONE you gain power over them. You have to come out from under that before you can be rid of them now. They can parasite you because they have control over some part of your thinking. And because humans have a natural aversion to admitting their errors (due to the potential consequences), they use YOUR NATURAL MIND AGAINST YOU.

These are the psychological tactics of manipulation that shills and trolls use to convince you of falsehood so they can SHAPE THE NARRATIVE and SPREAD THEIR SELF-SERVING LIES. Here's a perfect example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/pmmtt9/this_business_group_behind_chivo_wallet_in_el/

In this thread, you can see in r/btc George Donnelly FUDING Dash. Just like Lysergic does on the most recent DashDelivery proposal.

"lysergic
0 points,8 hours ago This is a NO from me sadly, you have not provided a budget, you have not shown any evidence of usage of this service. We have no idea how your business model is to become self-reliant, we have no idea how you intend to spend the requested funds.

The DAO can better allocate this DASH."

Mark my words. These are the enemies of Dash. They are liars and selfish, stupid assholes. People with no couth, no principles. They are NOT REAL MEN! Real men don't lie (because of the consequences). Real men don't spread rumors about others (again, consequences). Real men don't subtly attack others while pretending to be good-natured!
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9 points,4 months ago
Can you stop spamming this same point everywhere and take it up with Rango. None of us commenters can do anything about your complaint about who can post, and by now we ALL know how you feel about it. Enough already
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-7 points,4 months ago
Furthermore, repeating the message lets everyone know that the commenters masternoodle, grandmasterdash and agnewpickens likely don't have Masternodes. Agnew for sure doesn't. Did you know that? I didn't know that before. So why is he commenting here?? You're a MNO. You should be on MY SIDE. The fact that you're not is suspicious. Why would you want non-MNOs commenting here and having the same influence that you, with your at least ~$200k investment in the network possess?

Only an idiot or a sellout would want something like that. To make a MOCKERY of the DAO because THEY HATE IT. And they hate it BECAUSE THEY'RE STUPID, SELFISH ASSHOLES. This is literally ALL that motivates these people. So it makes sense TO WANT TO KEEP THEM FROM COMMENTING.

Do you disagree?
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-7 points,4 months ago
1. Its not spam.

2. No.

3. I've already taken it up with Rango and await his response on the front page.

The point must be made until something is done. I'm not reading off my fantasy football picks, or regaling you with tales of my weekend, I am alleging that SERIOUS MANIPULATION is afoot. This is not pleasantries or banal banter, as a MNO IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to verify whether or not what I'm saying is correct and to ACT ON IT.

Do you deny that people who shouldn't have commented in the past caused much havok here? Do you deny that shills and liars like henrygeorgist (who I successfully called out as a liar and infiltrated MNO twice over the period of a year both here and on r/dashpay) are/were present and have done much damage with their subversive comments?

If you do deny, then you are a liar. If you don't then you should realize how SERIOUS this matter is. We cannot afford to allow bad actors to curry favor and pretend to be friendly, while manipulating us into letting them post here! That means all the damage they do IS OUR FAULT!!

Then they can actually get away with saying, "Well, hehe hehe, you shouldn'tve let us comment. We never said we had masternodes. Hehe hehe".

I'm trying to prevent that from happening because you CANNOT SURVIVE TRAITORS FROM WITHIN. What is your goal with this comment?
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3 points,4 months ago
I am inclined to vote yes, DeltaEngine has been a solid service provider to the community. Is it a game changer PO, probably not, but at this price point, I like the prospects.
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-9 points,4 months ago
Do you have a MNO? I can't recall...
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6 points,4 months ago
None of your business.
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-4 points,4 months ago
In response to your post on r/dashpay:

We already have low voter participation rates so your concern about 'unknown MNOs' is already solved.

Secondly, this place isn't for 'all sincere discussion'. The MNOs EXPLICITLY asked Rango to limit comments to MNOs and POs. Agnewpickens doesn't have a MN, so why would you want him or anyone else to have the same amount of influence as you, a MNO, do?

That's not logical.

Finally, if you truly do 'cross your fingers and hope the MNOs' approve, please stop trying to go against our wishes and allow and/or support non-MNOs to comment. Thank you.
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-5 points,4 months ago
Completely incorrect. As a matter of fact, agnewpickens confirmed that he DOES NOT have a MN, so it is very relevant. Why do you want non-MNOs to be able to comment here, given the negative history we have with those individuals? Do tell.
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2 points,4 months ago
Fuck you arsehole, Agnew has votes that makes him an MNO, go hit something, you stupid emotional rager.
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-1 point,4 months ago
Agnew admitted that he doesn''t have a MN. Being a delegate voter is not the same as being a MNO and we've never agreed to let them post here. You, GMD, Agnew and others appear to be deliberately taking advantage of the loopholes here so that you can allow fudders, liars and other subversive elements to comment. This means you're a bad actor and should be banned from the network.
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1 point,4 months ago
You're contradicting yourself. When Agnew said he was a delegate voter, you said "I would say that that is an acceptable reason to be whitelisted to comment here". Changed your mind?
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-2 points,4 months ago
Its not a contradiction. If you think about it philosophically, then being a delegate voter makes sense in a way for participation. But agnew is NOT HERE because he's a delegate voter. He's here because he's a former PO. His answer at first made it seem as if he was here because there was a previous MNO agreement to allow delegate voters. But he revealed that's not the case, he's in fact only here because he had a former PO. That's a conflict of interest. If the network wants to allow delegate voters to participate then we should discuss and allow it. But certainly allowing former POs to fud other proposals is a conflict of interest.
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1 point,4 months ago
So if he had asked Rango to whitelist him it would have been okay, but because he was a PO and already had access, now it's not okay? Sheesh
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-2 points,4 months ago
>So if he had asked Rango to whitelist him it would have been okay

I didn't say that. I said that if the MNOs came together and agreed that it was okay, then it would be okay. Just like we came together and agreed that we DON'T WANT NON-MNOs commenting.

Having a PO formerly and being able to comment on other proposals is a conflict of interest. Do you disagree? If you don't, why are you trying to make it easier for those with COI to participate here?
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1 point,4 months ago
"Just like we came together and agreed that we DON'T WANT NON-MNOs commenting."

I'm sorry, when did this happen? Who agreed? Did the DAO ever vote on this? When this issue came up originally, I supported the restriction on DC comments but I also supported the whitelisting system. The goal was to facilitate productive discussion by eliminating abusive posters. I am more than willing to listen and discuss governance questions with non-MNOs if they have a head on their shoulders and can contribute productively.
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-2 points,4 months ago
>I'm sorry, when did this happen?

You weren't there? It was a couple years ago, there was no vote. MNOs, who pay for this site with their donations - so the owners of the site, demanded that comments be limited to MNOs and POs only.

The whitelist was not part of that, Rango added it. But yes, you're correct the goal of the change which was announced on the site was to limit abusive posters.

>I am more than willing to listen and discuss governance questions with non-MNOs if they have a head on their shoulders and can contribute productively.

This is problematic. The DAO is run by MNOs. Without MNs there is no DAO. Our votes should not be directly influenced by anyone other than the proposal owner and other MNOs.

That's how we protect the community because its a sybil-proof way of showing that you have skin in the game.

There is no solution to that for random posters "with a head on their shoulders". What if they just pretend to be that and are actually bad actors? That's ALREADY HAPPENED. Relying on the sybil-resistant nature of MNs protects us. Non-MNOs participating here directly can only harm us. There are other venues for them to voice their opinions, just not here.
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1 point,4 months ago
" It was a couple years ago, there was no vote. MNOs, who pay for this site with their donations - so the owners of the site, demanded that comments be limited to MNOs and POs only."

So a group of MNOs asked for that. You have no basis to claim that this group is representative of the DAO. I was one of the people who wanted that AND I also wanted the whitelisting. Don't use people who shared this position to make it seem that these people are against whitelisting. It seems to me that you are actually in the vast minority of MNOs who are not okay with the whitelisting of known community members who have demonstrated the ability to contribute productively.

If you don't want to engage with non-MNOs, you don't have to. For myself, I will absolutely listen to non-MNOs who have earned my respect.
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0 points,3 months ago
"The fact remains that they wanted the change and rango made it. If you want whitelisting that's fine, but you have to have a decentralized process for it"

How come I need a decentralized process now, but we didn't need one before when Rango was asked to limit comments? You didn't use a decentralized process then, so you can't use that previous decision to justify asking for one now. There was never a decentralized vote to decide to limit comments in the first place. It was an executive decision by Rango after hearing feedback from some MNOs. Your opinions on who should be allowed to comment are nothing more than opinions.

"you don't even have anyone you can cite as being for this position."

The fact that no one has been coming to your defense these last few months is telling.
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-1 point,3 months ago
>So a group of MNOs asked for that. You have no basis to claim that this group is representative of the DAO.

Why not? The fact remains that they wanted the change and rango made it. If you want whitelisting that's fine, but you have to have a decentralized process for it, you can't just 'leave it up to Rango'.

What if he's compromised? That's not decentralized. The point is to prevent bad actors who don't have MNs from influencing the discussion, like Agnew. He doesn't have a MN but he's fudding proposals, and YOU'RE HELPING HIM.

Don't put words in my mouth. There WAS pushback against the 'whitelisting' because the whole point was to prevent bad actors from commenting. 'Whitelisting' is a loophole like in the tax laws that allows the rich to get away with stealing. You're basically trying to create the same culture of corruption in the DAO that we seek to get away from, which is further evidence that you're a sellout.

> It seems to me that you are actually in the vast minority of MNOs

You're being a hypocrite, you attack me for using evidence that we don't want strange non-mnos commenting and say 'don't use people...to make it seem', but then you go on to engage in complete speculation, i.e. you don't even have anyone you can cite as being for this position. And you have no good reason, why would you want people without MNs to have the same influence as those who do have them? That's preposterous and the fact that you keep ignoring that question indicates you're a sellout.

>demonstrated the ability to contribute productively.

Fudding proposals is not contributing productively. Anyway, if you don't have a MN you shouldn't comment, its that simple. You guys are trying to force the MNOs to 'accept non-mno comments' so you can fud proposals and make up consensus to satisfy your nerd-mafia backroom deals. We don't have an obligation to do that.

>f you don't want to engage with non-MNOs, you don't have to. For myself, I will absolutely listen to non-MNOs who have earned my respect.

Yeah, whatever. If you don't have a masternode you shouldn't comment here. I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that we should give shills the ability to comment. You are a disgrace to the network and should be removed for bad acting.

Selling out everyone else is WORSE than running a masternode that doesn't do what its supposed to do.
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-4 points,4 months ago
All of these months Agnew was pretending to be a MNO with his comments and he isn't. That should upset and annoy you as a MNO. The fact that it doesn't is further evidence that I was correct about you being a subversive bad actor, liar and troll. Thank you.
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3 points,4 months ago
In my culture it's rude to ask someone about the financial condition.
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2 points,4 months ago
*their

not the
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-3 points,4 months ago
Understandable response, it is rude in my culture as well. But we are in neither of our cultures currently. This is the Dash Masternode culture where whether or not you have a masternode is a very important and relevant question. I do not ask about the financial condition directly, only the masternode ownership.

And even then, only for the purpose of proof, I don't ask the number. So I hear your objection but I counter that it is not accurate because I only care about MNO status, not total financial condition. This concern of mine is justified by the network conditioning commenting/participation here on MNO status.

Thank you for your objection.
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5 points,4 months ago
I am a delegate voter,
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-5 points,4 months ago
I would say that that is an acceptable reason to be whitelisted to comment here.
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1 point,4 months ago
Dash Central doesn't offer an option for delegates to register, Dash Nexus was going to to, then it got defunded. By the way, Grand Master Dash has an MNO badge on the Forum, not everybody wants to regsiter on every Dash site. He is a frequent contributor on the Forum.
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1 point,4 months ago
I got in as a former PO. I wouldn't be able to post here as a delegate voter otherwise.
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-4 points,4 months ago
Ah, so your answer before was actually irrelevant then? You probably should've led with that. As I mentioned, it is inappropriate for 'former POs' to comment on other POs, that's a conflict of interest.

I don't understand why you, GMD, Masternoodle and others want to make it acceptable to flout the rules like this, other than you want to have a deflection shield to point to so you can allow other bad actors in using these loopholes.

That is clearly bad behavior and shouldn't be tolerated at all. But the fact that you don't even have a MN really means you shouldn't be commenting here.
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4 points,4 months ago
Agnew is a delegate voter AND a former PO. Being a former PO doesn't negate his being a delegate lol
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-5 points,4 months ago
But it does negate his license to post here. Only POs and MNOs should comment here.
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4 points,4 months ago
No, the Dash Central budget section has always been for people whitelisted by rango + proposal owners + masternode operators. That has always been the case. Your consistent remarks on ever whitelisted person commenting in here to clarify if they are a MNO or not is both irrelevant and clogging up the comments.

Please stop.
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-2 points,4 months ago
That is not correct. At all. This section used to be open to a lot more people to comment. Rango had to change it at MNO request. There was even an announcement about it. MNOs did NOT ask for this "whitelisting" and IIRC there was pushback against it when it first appeared. YOU ARE WRONG.

These remarks are to prevent a loophole in the system from allowing subversive actors from commenting. Agnewpickens does NOT have a masternode. Why is he allowed to comment here? Do you deny that in the past the comments were overtaken by commenters who should not have been here and who spread much fud against proposals?

The three comments from non-MNOs here ARE ALL FUD. YOU DISGRACE THIS PLACE when you give place to liars and trolls, so I reject your request and request that YOU STOP.
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-3 points,4 months ago
> both irrelevant and clogging up the comments.

And it is NOT irrelevant. This site is run by MNO donations. So we should be the ones who have a say on who's whitelisted and why. Why are you supporting people who are not MNOs commenting here? That is completely against your best interests as a MNO.
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-4 points,4 months ago
Finally, it is a CONFLICT OF INTEREST to allow proposal owners from other proposals to comment on different proposals than their own. I shouldn't have to explain this, but I will.

When you have a proposal, you are basically competing with other proposals for DAO attention and funds. This means you have an incentive to FUD, attack and otherwise poo-poo proposals other than your own.

Therefore, it is in the best interests OF THE NETWORK that this be disallowed.

Do you disagree?
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-4 points,4 months ago
Let me give you guys some advice, you can't 'shake me' by making me appear wrong or even be wrong. Being wrong is the name of the game in this business, its how you move on that counts. So these little tricks and emotional reversal tactics won't ever work.

True neutrality prevents ANY emotional attachment. In this way, decisions are made rationally instead. So you can't chip away at me or anything like that by holding out info until the end and tripping me up. Tricks like that just don't work on neutral people, FYI
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-3 points,4 months ago
Just to expand on this, its YOU GUYS who have the responsibility to keep pushing your shill line, which is why you can never admit to being wrong. Not only would that kill your credibility, but it would also completely destroy the narrative you're carefully trying to craft. I, however, don't have any such restrictions, as the truth is all I care about.

So any deviation from the truth I make is quite easy and painless to admit, as that's the whole point of fact-finding. Being wrong is the name of the game in the TRUTH business, because that's the only way you can get closer to the truth, by testing your assumptions and fixing your flaws by the results.

You guys, on the other hand, are in a DIFFERENT business, which is why you're projecting this weakness onto me. I.e. you know you can't admit you're wrong and you think I also can't do so. You can't do so because yo have a hard narrative you're trying to spin and you have to coordinate all of your sellout pawns together as well, so you can't afford to be wrong and admit it, that would throw everything into chaos. Just like George Donnelly can't afford to admit he's wrong about Dash in Venezuela.

Also, you can tell these people are aligned together by the narratives they support, for example xkcd and others also lie about Dash's success in Venezuela. Its seems like they do it just to make me wrong...Just like they manipulate coinfairvalue just to make my arguments against Monero wrong. But can't you guys see that just by doing that, you're proving me right all along?

Everything I said is proven correct by your ham-fisted attempts to force the truth to be your narrative. Manipulating coinfairvalue just to "prove me wrong" and make monero larger than Dash, when it was the opposite for three years, only exposes the fact that you're manipulating financial markets, just like I alleged three years ago.

Back then it was just supposition, but the fact that you not only manipulated Dash's market price on exchanges so that its ALWAYS under monero's, but now also the fact that you deliberately manipulate fair value to make Dash and Monero switch positions (Dash used to be ~#20 and Monero was like ~#36), is solid PROOF that I was correct in calling you out for manipulating market value to make monero look bigger than Dash! You proved that all on your own.

But you can't change the truth. It is just "the truth". You just have to accept it. But just like George Donnelly refuses to accept our growth in Venezuela, and those like him think they can just keep ignoring and fudding proposals and attacking them until they go away, these guys refuse to accept the truth.

You're in the wrong business, you've been given a Sysiphian task that you can never complete.
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-5 points,4 months ago
No need for the explanation, I already said I thought it acceptable. What are the requirements for having a MNO badge on the forum? Why does he need you to speak on his behalf, why couldn't he just answer with this himself? The point of my comment is to show that people who don't operate with good motivations shouldn't be commenting, because that's how you get subversive behavior, ala george donnelly, realmrhack, etc.

If you don't have a masternode and you're commenting here (without being the PO), or if YOU DO have a masternode, but refuse to prove it or provide evidence like everyone else, THEN YOU'RE BEING A BAD ACTOR. GMD trying to do emotional damage by hiding the fact that he's a MNO just to make me look bad, falls under the latter category of bad acting behavior. Finally, he is a grown man (at least I hope) and should answer for himself.
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1 point,4 months ago
In order to have a mno badge on the forum you needed to sign a message from your MN collateral.
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-3 points,4 months ago
So,

1. Why doesn't he do that here?

2. Why didn't he answer this for himself?

3. How can he expect people, POs and MNOs alike to answer his questions like below if he completely refuses to answer the questions of others? I have asked him very politely at LEAST 4 times to prove that he has a masternode and he has deliberately refused. That is not behavior that is appropriate here or for MNOs.

4. This is not his living room, if he's going to participate it should be civilly. And before you comment, I only act uncivilly to people I HAVE EVIDENCE are misbehaving, abusing their position or otherwise being bad actors. Everyone else I treat with respect, you can check my posts from the very first one.
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-2 points,4 months ago
*MN
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1 point,4 months ago
Not saying this is a bad proposal but you can't go slighting Axie Infinity when it has achieved more adoption in the Philippines than 7 years of failure from dash. In fact, AXS / SLP are popular forms of payment in the real world. Spending and tipping options alone is going to add very little value. The key to Axie Infinity's success is the ability to earn and significantly supplement or replace traditional forms of income.

I understand the self interest to integrate with MyDashWallet but I'd appreciate you also let people do this via the official wallet in a similar way to Dash Direct.
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1 point,4 months ago
just to make sure that everyone understands: The game accepts any kind of Dash, it is not a looked in system, all Dash transactions are on the blockchain and every player can use their Dash in any way they like (that is the way the mydashwallet bot accounts work as well, it is the same system). This means any deposit can be done from any wallet and any withdrawal, tip, spending, etc. can be done by the user to any other dash address.

We obviously would be very happy if there is an easy way to be integrated into other wallets or Dash Direct, if there is anything we can do to help this, we are happy to.
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2 points,4 months ago
Thank you for the clarification. And yes, I'd very much like to see more collaboration between projects, so by all means reach out and brainstorm with Marshall at Cray Pay etc.

I'm a great believer that cash is something people should spend, save and earn, therefore, the more you can integrate all three aspects into your game, the better the outcome.

Anyway, after giving this some thought, I am switching some of my votes to Yes.
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-4 points,4 months ago
Now that someone else has spoken up for you and provided the proof that you have a masternode, can you please add the MNO tag to your username? Its a simple procedure that takes literally 2 seconds and it helps in discussions to know that everyone posting is a MNO or the PO.

You can do what you want, and now that I know that you're a MNO I won't bother you about this again, but you do the network no favors by leaving this ambiguous. Also, I will remind you that you have NO RIGHT to ask ANY QUESTIONS if you refuse to answer them.

This is not your house or your living room, any pertinent and relevant questions are fair game and if you wish to have your questions answered you have a responsibility to answer questions as well. Notice I never ignore the questions of others. Never. Because that's what it takes. Get over your personal feelings towards me and DO YOUR DAMN JOB.

Verifying that you're a MNO and that you belong here IS PART OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A MNO, I am only trying to get you to live up to this standard like everyone else. We have subversive elements and vicious, aggressive competitors who seek to abuse the ambiguity behind MNO ownership that 'whitelisted' commenters have AND YOU ARE HELPING THEM by stubbornly refusing this polite request out of spite. That is inappropriate behavior for a MNO as well as for an adult.
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-5 points,4 months ago
The only reason Grandmasterdash can post here is because he had a proposal in the past (that failed btw). That's it. He created a proposal and suddenly he can comment on other proposals with no consequence. This is a clear flaw in Rango's system that should be addressed imo.
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-3 points,4 months ago
It appears that GMD does indeed have a masternode and I rescind his name from this comment. Replace it with 'agnewpickens' and the comment contains the same weight and truth.
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-4 points,4 months ago
I mean, you won't even give the rest of the network a good reason, hell ANY reason, for why you won't identify whether or not you have a masternode. But you admit to being around during the time when commenters without MNs would wreak havoc like realmrhack and others. So you know both that the rest of the network told Rango to limit comments and that this was an issue in the past with non-MN holders making subversive comments with conflicted interest.

Yet you want to FORCE the network to accept your comments as valid without knowing whether or not you're truly a MNO. Help me, I'm trying to understand.
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-5 points,4 months ago
Why should anyone take your comment seriously when you refuse to confirm whether or not you're a MNO?
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5 points,4 months ago
If you have the capacity not to take me seriously then others do also. You're not fucking God so fuck off.
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-7 points,4 months ago
>If you have the capacity not to take me seriously then others do also.

This sentence doesn't make any sense as a response, care to rephrase? Why do you think people should take you seriously when you disrepect the rules and refuse to identify yourself?

>You're not fucking God so fuck off.

Never said I was, at all. I'm just tired of subversive, stupid assholes trying to throw their weight around while tricking others into supporting them by abusing loopholes in the rules here, so in that light I return to you your comment. Do you dispute that the MNOs only want POs and MNOs to comment here?

If not, then why do you think you're "special" and don't have to abide by the rules everyone else does? If anyone has a god complex, its you who has refused my polite request 4 times now.

Frankly, you yourself should've fucked off when I defeated you twice now; instead, you decide to prove everything I said about you was correct.

How pitiful.
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1 point,4 months ago
Voting abstain until the PO gives a clear statement about the questions raised by MasterNoodle.
If he fails to do so within 72 hours, i will change my votes from abstain to No.
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1 point,4 months ago
Hi Gonzo,

Sorry for the late reply, we were busy all weekend testing the game and I saw no comments last week and now there is quite a lot of chatter here (mostly unrelated, but still good that people ask questions ^^). Hope your question is answered and the statement below is satisfactory, if there is any other questions, let me know.

I am also always available on Telegram (Ben) or Discord (BenDeltaEngine) if anyone wants to live-chat and not wait in comments ^^
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-6 points,4 months ago
Before you go giving POs ultimatums, don't you think it would be wise to find out of "MasterNoodle" is actually a MNO first?
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-3 points,4 months ago
*if "Masternoodle"
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2 points,4 months ago
In that last proposal you alluded to, you promised YouTube and Twitch integration for the tipping bot. And it sounds like you did work on it: "we didn't have much development work this year aside from Twitch and YouTube integration" and "Our Bot Developer (@Xadarius) spent a lot of time on Twitch, YouTube".

But I still don't see any mention of it on your site: https://mydashwallet.org/tip Are Twitch and YouTube live? How can I see it? To better evaluate this proposal, can you please provide an update on the actual results of your previous funding?
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2 points,4 months ago
Hey MasterNoodle,

Good question. We were a bit vague about the Twitch and YouTube integration because it took much longer until it worked and we neither had time nor funding to invest more time and efforts into it. The interest at Twitch is very low and we almost got no feedback from YouTube testers and it seems like YouTube is not really the place for Dash tips (at least not right now), it is too complicated, too many limitations by YouTube, usernames are not unique and tons of other problems to even get a bot working, it will constantly get banned/shadow-banned, etc.

Anyway, the Twitch bot is live since early this year and can be used by anyone on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mydashwallet/about

The youtube bot only works when it is added to a channel list manually and it is very cumbersome and crashes all the time, gets banned, etc. if anyone is interested and wants to test it and has some users that want to use it, let us know, we want to test it for our own channels as well once we have some content (e.g. game release), but it is not pretty like any of the other platforms we support (Telegram, Discord, Twitter, Reddit, Email, Twitch)
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