Proposal “PatrickQuinnResign“ (Closed)Back

Title:Should Patrick Quinn resign from DCG interim CEO?
Owner:Tingtianming
One-time payment: 0 DASH (0 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2022-07-12 / 2022-08-11 (added on 2022-07-06)
Final voting deadline: in 7 days
Votes: 113 Yes / 157 No / 73 Abstain

Proposal description

Purpose: 
DCG CEO is a critical position for the Dash ecosystem, We can't afford to make it wrong. Mr Patrick Quinn has been announced as DCG interim CEO on Jun 20, 2022. 

Based on my experience with Zairimai (the business Mr Patrick Quinn owns), I think Patrick Qinn is not suitable as DCG interim CEO. My experience will be in the next paragraph. Zaimirai provides bad hosting service to his customers. If the business is not good the business owner either has no ability to make business better or he/she doesn't intend to make the business better. If Mr Quinn manages his own business like that, how can we trust him to manage DCG well as a CEO?

This purpose of the proposal is not against Mr Quinn personally, just would like our community to fully discuss this announcement and make a right decision. If we can't find a proper CEO, better we may leave this position vacant. It would be great if our community members, especially Joel, Amamda, and Mark, could encourage the discussion before the voting date as it is so crucial. 


The following is my experience with Zairimia:
My discord name is tingtianming. I've been a Dash masternodes owner for years. I' m not active in the community, as English is not my native language and there is a barrier to communicating with others, most of the time I just read articles.I used Node 40 masternode hosting service for years. My masternodes worked perfectly under Node 40 management until last year Node 40 transferred masternode hosting service to Zaimirai.

Firstly, Zaimirai took the business unprofessionally:   
    ---On 9th Sep, 2021 I received an Email from node 40 to inform me that hosting service has been taken over by Zaimirai on 1st August. But I did not receive any welcome letter or email from Zaimirai.    
    ---In Nov 2021 I received an email from Node 40 to request payment of a 1 year hosting service fee, which made me confused who is handling the job. I asked Node 40, they said they worked closely with Zaimirai, then I paid a 1 year service fee to Node 40.    
    ---In Feb 2022 my masternode was offline for more than a week, I left messages to both Node 40 and Zaimirai websites but there was no response from either of them. After my second request, Node 40 provided me with Zaimirai's email address to solve the issue.
My experience felt that, during the business transaction, Zaimirai didn't show up, and wasn't keen to help their customers in solving issues.

Secondly, Zaimirai masternode hosting service is a disaster.  
   ---After my masternode was offline for more than a week I wrote an email to Zaimirai to ask what happened. Zaimirai replied that there was a problem on their self-healing system which has been solved, also they have designed a support workflow to improve customer service. I thought I should give Zaimirai a second chance so I didn't cancel the hosting service.     -
    ---4 months have passed since Feb, the problem is still there. My masternode is offline occasionally. In June my masternode was offline twice. Patrick from Zaimirai support team ( I don't know if he is Patrick Quinn or not) told me "Pose Banned is a fairly common problem for masternodes. I don't know if it is true, but I have used a few masternode hosting providers in the last few years. None of them let masternodes offline so often! There is something wrong.    
    ---I was also wondering if the host provider should monitor masternode by himself properly? Why does the masternode owner have to write an email to the service provider to fix the problem every time? Last time one of my masternodes was offline just before the payment time, I lost the reword. Patrick replied to my Email: "All set now. Same problem (POSE BANNED), and same quick fix by our system and support team. "   I feel Zaimirai isn't keen to solve the problem and provide high quality service to his customers, he just covered the problem.


My hosting issue is a small thing, but we can get some clues from my experience. Like I said before: Mr Quinn manages his own business like that, how can we trust him to manage DCG well as a CEO?

I have contacted other masternode owners who used to be Zaimirai customers too, they agree with what I thought and support my action. Hope this proposal provides a chance to discuss this announcement.  Dash is so weak now, we can't afford any more mistakes.  

Kind regards

Tingtianming

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,1 month ago
How come you claim to be an MNO, but DashCentral does not display this?

I will remain on the sidelines of this for now.
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1 point,29 days ago
Dash Central has minimal maintenance and doesn't hand out MNO badges any more afaict, and no badge at all for Delegate voters such as myself.
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1 point,29 days ago
I didn't write down my masternode when I registered with dash central because I do not need register my masternode as a proposal owner. However I have made public my previous collateral masternode address in replying Mr Quinn's comment. Everybody can check. Thanks.
Reply
8 points,1 month ago
Hi all. (It's Patrick, for anyone who doesn't know my handle.) I'm certainly disappointed at the poor experience two of our former customers are describing here, but I also want to offer some comment and context, for anyone wanting to vote on the proposal. As both former customers noted, we had some limited (but fairly severe) disruptions in our masternode hosting service back in February. This was due to the full and final takeover of the former Node40 system by Zaimirai. In that transfer process, a single system component was missed, resulting in some problems with the way we keep masternodes healthy. Specifically, an image rotation process was failing, causing our self-healing to fail as well. This affected a small percentage of our customers for a few days, although the system's advanced monitoring and alerting was in fact working, and this helped us identify and fix the problem as quickly as possible. As planned for the takeover phase, we had the support of Node40's engineering team, and resolved the problem within a few days. One metric that we monitored closely during this period was scheduled reward payments from the network, and only a subset of affected customers missed even just one reward payment. Our SLA puts our money where our mouth is, so wherever this happened, we offered credits as compensation for missed rewards. 

The responsibility for this misstep lies with me, since, in addition to being a partner in Zaimirai (along with co-founders Scott Herring and Scott Bryan), I also function as its CTO. When system migrations like these take place, it's of course pretty common for problems to arise, so we planned to mitigate that as quickly as possible, but obviously not quickly enough for these two customers, and for that our entire team apologizes.
 
I will say, however, that I don't think it's logical or fair to label Zaimirai's hosting as "a disaster," nor to use these two admittedly bad experiences to make a leap to arguing that I'm somehow not fit for the DCG CEO role. My fitness for the role was vetted by two different groups of Trust Protectors (before and after this year's election), as well as by DCG management, and all agreed this was a good move to make, and we're off to a great start in terms of progress in just the first couple of weeks. As for what we've done with Zaimirai, I'll also note that we've invested a large sum of time and money in taking over that business, expanding the support team substantially, making steady improvements to the service along the way, and also planning for even bigger improvements to support Platform for masternode owners. Importantly, we're aggressively investing in market research and marketing analytics, to better understand how to expand the Dash community generally, and masternode investment specifically.
 
I hope that helps add to the discussion. To our former customers, if there's anything at all we can do to earn back your business, we're ready to discuss any time, and would welcome some direct discussion with you.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
At least 4 lies.

1. “This affected a small percentage of our customers for a few days”
2. “and resolved the problem within a few days”
3. “we offered credits as compensation for missed rewards”
4. “these two customers, and for that our entire team apologizes”

First:
From server issues to “PoSe Penalty”to “PoSe Ban” to “offline” to “missed payment”. It will take at least a week or more. I say at least 2 weeks.
And I found the problem myself and contacted you proactively.

Second:
The problem wasn't resolved, and then I gave you a second chance and it wasn't resolved. After that, I never logged into your website again.
You haven't contacted me anymore. Until you want to run for the “protector”, I received your email again, asking me to support you.
What were you thinking?

Third:
Never heard of "credits as compensation" until now.
The fact is that I have never logged into your website since I switched to another provider.
I have not asked you to refund my advance payment.

Fourth:
I highly doubt that only "these two customers" are like me.
More likely, more investors won't keep track of the service provider's services at all times.
It's even possible that they missed a payment and they didn't notice.

Finally:
I don't need your apology.
I only state the facts.
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
I would like to clarify that as soon as you get PoSe Banned you are going to "miss" the payment, because once you reset the masternode with a ProUpServ transaction you restart at the back of the queue.
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1 point,1 month ago
I also would like to add that a masternode with a serious problem, can go from PoSe score to PoSe banned within a day. Not a week or at least two weeks. Specially with a few failures to participate in DKG which has a high penalty score (66% / 2758 score with current 4180 number of masternodes).
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4 points,1 month ago
Trust me it can go within a couple of minutes if the same MN is selected for more than 1 quorum and not responding :)
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0 points,1 month ago
I'm not a technician.
Also I don't check node status every day.
When I found out that there was a problem with the node, the first realization was that this should have been happening for a while.
It should be emphasized that I found the problem myself and contacted them proactively.
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
Now this is really mindblowing.
I still can´t believe what i am reading above.
Can all you mno in here believe this? WOW just WOW
This is not easy to fathom let alone to digest, after we put so much hope and confidence in our new interim CEO

IF what you claim is really true - IF (!) - then this is nothing short of a scandal and an eyes-opening revelation.
Because now the credibility, integrity and likewise the probity and honesty of our interim CEO are in question.

You accuse him of lying to the community.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Your nickname is misleading.
Please consider changing it from "i-am-sigmund" to something more recognizable like "i-am-patrick" or "i-am-quinn".
Would be less confusing.
Thank you very much
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Dear Mr Quinn,

Thanks for your comment. I would like to let you know I wouldn't public my experience with your company until you become DCG interim CEO. This position is crucial for Dash. I apologise for any inconvenience raised for you and your company. I also appreciate your effort as TP in the past.

I have to point out there are some points in your comment are NOT true:

1. The hosting problem is still there since Feb.
One of my masternodes offline twice in June( I don't exactly know how many time my masternodes offline, but I catched twice in June) and the last time offline was just before reward. Zaimirai didn't work efficiently to fix the problem. My masternode collateral address:
XhfgqXMUnWgGXK21uLco4mHT5y2t6FYpZf
Anyone can check how many times this masternode offline between Feb to July.

2. Zaimirai only offered me one month free extend hosting service in Feb after my masternode had offlined for more than a week and I sent a strong complaining letter to them. I didn't receive any other compensation for my other missed rewards.

3. Zaimirai customer service improved since Feb as he started to response customer's request, but still not good.
Firstly, On 9th Sep, 2021 I received an official email form node 40 to inform me that hosting service has been taken over by Zaimirai on 1st August. But I did not receive any welcome letter or email from Zaimirai.
Secondly, Zaimirai didn't response custom request until Feb.
Thirdly, until now Zaimirai hasn't moniterred his customers masternodes properly. Even masternodes offline Zaimirai wouldn't fix it until I wrote an email to request fixing it.
Fourthly, the same masternodes offlined at least 3 times from Feb to June, obviously there is something wrong, but Zaimirai didn't want to watch it deeply, just cover the problem. I question Zairimai tech ability and working attitude.

By the way Mr Quinn, could you please tell if you are the " Patrick" from Zairimai support team? If he is you, I question your working attitude too.

Before I just question Mr Quinn's ability. Based on there are several things on Mr Quinn's comment are NOT TRUE, now I move to question Mr Quinn's integrity. I will vote YES for this proposal.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
As I can't attach evidence here to approve what I said, I will attach evidence in discord. please check. thanks
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Patrick is Interim CEO, the term is temporary anyway. This is really bad timing for this proposal, votiong no.
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-1 point,1 month ago
As qwizzie said " interum leadership positions seem to have a tendency to develop into full positions with Dash Core Group, so maybe this is worth discussing in public."
Even it is temporary, if it is not proper, can damage the Dash and DCG organisation badly.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
The objective here is not to hurt DCG or the Network, it is to fill a leadesrhip vaccum that has Dash losing ground, stop the bleeding first, we need DCG back on some track.
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-1 point,1 month ago
Is Dash losing ground now? I don't think so. Dash is still on right direction, but very very weak. Some faults previous DCG CEO made drove Dash to current situation. But the foundation of Dash Evan and Ryan had built is still strong. DCG CEO is crucial position, we have to be careful, we can't afford any fault.
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0 points,1 month ago
the following is my own opinion regarding DCG CEO, welcome to discuss:

Be DCG CEO is not easy, he/she has to have some characters, skills and experiences. the most important thing for DCG CEO is if he/she wise enough and has an ability to drive Dash on right direction. It is foundation, other characters skills and experiences built on the top of that. That's why I think Even and Ryan were qualified be DCG CEO, even on some aspects they are not good enough and leaded Dash to current situation, but Dash is still on right direction. I really appreciate their efforts. ( By the way, Evan was not DCG CEO, he was respectively Head in my memery. Ryan is first DCG CEO, if I'm wrong please correct me). I'm not sure if Mr Quinn is wise enough and has an ability to be qualified as an interim CEO as I don't know him. Base on my experience with Zairimai he owns, I tend to say NO.
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2 points,1 month ago
Dash Podcast 194 with Dash Trust Protector Patrick Quinn

Dash Trust Protector Patrick Quinn comes on the Dash Podcast to talk all things related to the Dash Trust, including what the DTPs have been doing since Dash Core Group's leadership has resigned. We go over a host of governance questions as well as changes we'd like to see moving forward, including finding a more technical CEO for the Core team, and making governance more accessible to all.
https://youtu.be/baZ6uwTvAv0
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0 points,1 month ago
My other thinking is : Dash is decentralised organisation, why we need a DCG CEO? we can just set up a " contactor" who can organise the meeting and other things among the groups in DCG, For example, a meeting with CTO and CFO, but contactor hasn't final power. CEO is traditional business model. Dictator can do the things efficiently also he can do the things wrong and damage the organisation badly. If there is not a proper candidate, why we can't keep CEO position vacancy? Dash is so weak and CEO position is so important, We can't afford any faulty!Thanks
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4 points,1 month ago
DCG is not Dash, DCG CEO is not Dash CEO
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1 point,1 month ago
I know. why can't DCG be decentralised then?

We can decentralise thing, depends on how deep we want decentalise, which level we should decentalise to make thing work efficiently, also we have to think other aspects.

To be clear: I don't tend to decentalise the DCG. My point is: if there is no proper candidate of DCG CEO we can leave this position vacancy and we can figure out better way to make DCG work well temporarily. Thanks
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0 points,1 month ago
I had the same experience with Proposal owner.
Likewise I give them a second chance. When they went offline again I switched provider right away.
As for the services provided by Zairimai, it is worth noting that the timing when the problem occurred. It was almost immediately after Zairimai took over the business of node40.
It should be emphasized that the service provided by node40 was very stable. As far as I can remember, there was no problem.
Then either the Zarimai's technology is really bad, or they just don't care.
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-1 point,1 month ago
that's why I doubt Mr Quinn's ability or purpose !
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1 point,1 month ago
Recentely i looked into Node40 (i visited their website), as i remembered that Node40 used to offer full Dash masternode hosting services, and i was curious if they were still offering that. I could not find any reference to Dash or to Dash masternodes on their website, so i assumed Node40 stopped their full Dash masternode hosting service and moved onto other area's of expertise.

This is a surprising turn of event, reading about your experience with Node40 and what looks to be inadequate customer service from their part (a week of them not responding is very bad customer service, period !) . Sorry to hear that. PoSe bans may be common among masternodes, but they usually require delving a little bit deeper into the masternode's setup, specially if it is accompanied with re-occurring PoSe scores, due to that masternode crashing a lot of going offline a lot.

With regards to Patrick Quinn beeing interum CEO for Dash Core Group on a voluntary basis (meaning no salary) : i would have preferred the role of CEO for Dash Core Group to remain vacant, at least untill we are out of this crypto winter. Also interum leadership positions seem to have a tendency to develop into full positions with Dash Core Group, so maybe this is worth discussing in public.

You were willing to spend 5 dash on the proposal fee and you seem not interested in having the proposal fee refunded in any way (you are putting up this decision proposal for 0 dash), so obviously this topic matters to you. I will follow this discussion with interest, as personally i don't know Patrick Quinn and therefore don't have an opinion whether he is suited for the interum CEO position for Dash Core Group or not.
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0 points,1 month ago
Thanks for your understanding! It is not only 5 Dash, I kept anonymous status for years until this proposal. I think through the detail of proposal Zairimai exactly know who I'm now. If I don't think it is serious I wouldn't pop up.

I agree to keep CEO position remain vacant until proper candidate shows up.

There is one thing in your writing is not accurate, maybe my bad english lead you misunderstanding. The following is what happened:
1. On 9th Sep, 2021 I received an Email from node 40 to inform me that hosting service has been taken over by Zaimirai on 1st August 2021.
2. In Feb 2022, my masternode had offlined for more than a week, nobody looked after it. Then I wrote a request to both Node 40 and Zaimirai through their website. There was no responds from both of them. Then I wrote my second request, Node 40 responded and provided me Zairimai's email. If I didn't wrote my 2nd request it could be no responds forever. Anyway, based on my experience with other hosting providers Zaimirai's service is not good.
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0 points,1 month ago
Dear Qwizzie,
Your comment is accurate. My English bad. Sorry!
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1 point,1 month ago
Does Zaimirai have an SLA (Service Level Agreement) that guarantees a certain amount of uptime for their hosted MNs? If not, then we have no real metric to determine the quality of service you received as a customer.
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0 points,1 month ago
No, since my hosting service transferred to Zaimirai in August 2021 I didn't receive any letter from Zaimirai. Anyway any hosting provider shouldn't let customer's masternodes offline for more than a week.
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1 point,1 month ago
Never heard of you, your English seems fine.
I don't use node 40 (too expensive) or the new service but I have had a similar experience with nodes going offline and have missed payments and had POSE bans in the last few years, It happens.
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1 point,1 month ago
I have been Dash masternode owner since 2017. I used other 4 masternode hosting providers, none of them is like Zairimai. there is something wrong! I'm not good on tech otherwise I will host myself. If Zaimirai is right it should happened on other providers, but none of them offline maternode so often, and start to fix problem until I contact them.
I'm not active in community, I'm underwater. this proposal took me 3 days to finish it. If I don't think it is serious I wouldn't do it. Thanks
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1 point,1 month ago
Ok.
Just curious why you moved from the 4 other Masternode services you said you used? Was there a problem with all of them too?
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1 point,1 month ago
I set up my first masternode with Node 40. Then I used Moocawmoo as a hosting provider. Then I had to separated my masternodes hosting service to 3 different providers to avoid Moocawmoo case happen again. To be honest, even Moocawmoo didn't let my massternode offline so long and so often although he/she didn't response my email at the end of stage. None of them like Zairimai!
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2 points,1 month ago
The post could be machine-translated. I've used DeepL before and it provides surprisingly high quality output.

As for POSE bans, if you provide MN hosting as a commercial service, yea, you need to hold yourself to a higher standard than little Jimmy running his one node on a cheap VPS. POSE penalties should almost never bring a properly maintained node down. The first POSE penalty that a node is hit with when something is wrong is not enough to push it off the grid. Only if you don't react will your node get hit with another penalty which then is enough to ban it. That leaves plenty of time for an automatic monitoring system to restart the server and/or alert support to apply other fixes. And those other fixes, most of the time are software updates that were announced with plenty of lead time. Ask how the Crowdnode guys do it. 44 MNs running and rock solid!
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3 points,1 month ago
Flare runs my nodes, always has. They are usually solid, but even with Flare running them they have had issues, not many, but it happens.
Either way, I thank the PO for the 5 Dash donation.
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1 point,1 month ago
Boy, you should know, that Flare is no longer a DCG Team member
But obviously nobody cares about telling the community why or whatever happened to make Flare leave?
Don´t you think we have a right to know?
Now it seems like half of the "old guard" is like gone with the wind :(
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1 point,1 month ago
thanks for your comment! Yes, if you charged high service fee you should provide high standard service. They changed not cheap! Also 4 months passed, the problem is still there. That's why makes me think if Mr Quinn is suitable for DCG CEO.
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0 points,1 month ago
Tingtianming, please search for splawik21 at dashmasternode . io supporter and masternode hosting service provider.
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1 point,1 month ago
thanks for your info
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3 points,1 month ago
I sympathize if you did not get perfect rapid customer service.

The Masternode community has been discussing Proof of Service bans a lot in recent history. We have seen PoSE bans with every kind of MN situation. Beyond that I think we would have to look at more data to determine if your event was just unlucky or if it was a sign of a larger problem with the MN service.

Pretty sure Patrick will address this directly and I look forward to that as well.

solarguy
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2 points,1 month ago
Dear Solarguy,

Thanks for your reply.

I think Masternoodle has explained clearly on technique aspect. And welcome Mr Quinn address this directly. thanks.
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