Proposal “Letter-to-MNOs-from-JulioDash-DashCrypto“ (Closed)Back

Title:Letter to MNOs from JulioDash about Dash Crypto
Owner:dashcrypto
One-time payment: 5 DASH (347 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2019-07-16 / 2019-08-15 (added on 2019-06-27)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 47 Yes / 440 No / 45 Abstain
External information: dashcrypto.org/proposals/letter-to-mnos-from-juliodash-about-dash-crypto/

Proposal description

Letter to MNOs from JulioDash about Dash Crypto. 

I am JulioDash, and I manage the Dash Crypto project. On Jan 2019, I showed how dash.org has been a mediocre site, running blind for several years, how 9/10 people left after just 10 seconds, how the bounce rate was at an alarming 80%, and several other major problems. You got a new site that took 11 months to finish, and you are all happy about it, hallucinating the issues went away because the design changed. Do you know or care what today's metrics are? 


Of course you don't. 

So Dash Crypto was created to do professional Web Development + Web Services + Web Marketing for Dash. We created a portal with a 43.62% bounce rate, 5.1x longer session duration, 6.4x the number of pages viewed per user. Amanda B. Johnson joined the team as Creative Director, Pete Eyre joined as Community Builder, and they took our marketing and social media to the next level. At first, the best conversion goal we had was to send visitors to a download page, and hope they downloaded and installed an app. We partnered with DeltaEngine and Benjamin Nitschke, and now with the Dash Web Wallet, we will be able to measure conversion to an unprecedented level. 

Our work was praised by thousands of users on social media. We know how to prioritize and use resources efficiently because we have built businesses before. Using private funds and in just 3 months, we delivered more than other projects have in years. Imagine the results in 12 months with proper funds. 

Sadly, if we are not paid in the next cycle, we will approach private investors, get sponsors and partners, stop being a Dash-only site, and get very creative with funding. This isn't a threat but a statement of fact that money has to come from somewhere, and we can't continue to work for free. You had $2.2 million to allocate and chose to pay us $0 for our salaries and expenses in 4 months — an absolute disrespect for my team and for what we've done. 

You don't pay for anything, show no respect for the project, repeatedly and deliberately insult my team and me, have no appreciation for what we are building, show no gratitude for the personal funds used to your benefit, possess no skills or competence but want to micro-manage, make demands to own things you didn't pay for or create, threaten to withhold funds when you don't get your way, and continuously vote not to pay even the minimum for our work.

Since our services aren't appreciated, maybe it's time we take them somewhere else.


And if you're voting No because you want Dash Crypto to shut down, please know this is not an option. We will not stop. By kicking us out of the Treasury, you are hurting Dash and shooting your portfolio in the foot because you're forcing us to take alternative funding — which we will. You are also giving up any chances of owning the Intellectual Property, which we would be willing to do in the future, and your control over the project will drop to zero — which I assume is what you want by repeatedly voting No without a path to Yes. 

Last chance. Vote wisely. 

JulioDash

---
And honestly, I am looking forward never to have to read every month the abuse of MNOs who've never run a business in their lives, calling me a sketchy guy out to destroy Dash, and slandering Amanda B. Johnson as a bargaining chip who can't think for herself — you people are disgusting.

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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2 points,3 months ago
Look Julio I'm a guy that desperately wants to support non-core group projects and teams to oppose their centralization and censorship efforts and to push them to do better and perhaps have Dash Watch or someone review their large budgets, BUT...

EVERY proposal from Dash Crypto reads like a threat or trying to take the treasury hostage! Your attitude is horrible.

If you had started with small asks and sentences like "hey look Amanda is helping us isn't that cool!?" instead of "fund us or never see Amanda again" people would have drowned you in votes.

Secondly how can someone trust your marketing skills when you consistently manage to piss people off?

Perhaps you are a great webdeveloper according to what you say, but in that case have someone else do your PR for you in the future.
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-1 point,2 months ago
Except nothing you're saying is true. I never said anything remotely similar to "fund us or never see Amanda again" , and before this letter there were no other proposals, yet you're still going for the 3rd month in a row paying us $0 while having more than $2.2 million to allocate.

I don't trust your capital allocation skills either, so we are going on separate ways.
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1 point,3 months ago
I really don't like that you are spamming the budgget list with your allocation proposals. Other projects have to deal with the exact same issue that they need to find a certatin reward amount and hence get either paid all or nothing. If you want to change that, then make a proposal about exactly that. But don't spam the budget list! I do like the website better than dash.org but I am still voting "no" on all your proposals only for that matter.
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-1 point,2 months ago
Please find an adult with time and a coloring book to explain to you the purpose of the proposals you think are spam. I'm glad to no longer be involved in something where someone as unqualified as you is in charge of allocating funds.
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2 points,3 months ago
This project involves a private company that is attempting to use Dash's intellectual property as well as develop new intellectual property at the expense of the DAO. There are serious questions involving the responsible use of the Dash brand, and the preservation the goodwill we have accumulated, as well as issues of control and ownership in case of disputes.

Fortunately, we now have the Dash Investment Foundation that was created to address these exact situations. I humbly suggest we funnel all future funding requests for this project through the DIF and discontinue direct treasury funding.
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1 point,3 months ago
Fuck you Julio! You come across as a self-entitled weasel, once again you threaten the MNOs, in a similar vein to Drako, threaten to take the site elsewhere, you refuse to listen to MNOs, so much so you block those whose opinion differs to your own, you totally disrespect the DAO and prey on the fickle for votes. Rather than outbursts and rants, why not address the concerns the MNOs brought you? I feel you have burned your bridges here, you’re untrustworthy, ignorant, arrogant and stupid and you have a misplaced delusion of your own grandeur. I hope you take some time for self-reflection and step down from your role DASH-CRYPTO and put a more level-headed down to earth person in-charge of communications of the DAO/MNOs.
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-1 point,2 months ago
Fuck you too, you "untrustworthy, ignorant, arrogant and stupid" "self-entitled weasel".
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4 points,3 months ago
JulioDash, I have seen you made great point, and later on you go off as a lose cannon, the only that was worst is the guy from Festy.
And this sucks, I wanted to have your back on this but you make it impossible at time to defend you.

I do understand your frustration, and yes you have deal with some trolls, but seriously, I you deal with them in a professional and calm manner you'll get your votes, and if you continue to progress, you'll get a bigger piece of the pie+Dash it's price in USD will continue to rise so even the same piece of the pie would be an increase.

If you really need to rant, call up a good friend or something, or call an MNO you can trust and rant on him. Don't take it out on others especially not this public. Feelings will be hurts and votes will be lost. Also the treats are not cool bro, we are all in this together trying to figure it out as best we can.
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0 points,2 months ago
This is not a rant, and no threats were made. You're going for 3 months paying us $0 for our work while having more than $2.2 million to allocate, all at the same time constantly and obsessively insulting myself and the team.

The Dash DAO is not a business relationship we want to maintain. We don't need the votes, or the money, and we are not willing to whore ourselves every month in exchange for funds.
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7 points,3 months ago
Please tell us more about your inbound metrics. When you type "dash" or "dash crypto" into google, your website doesn't rank. Seems like comparing traffic to dash.org is a sampling bias.

Also, I've said this before and I hope other proposal owners and MNs take note of it. Threatening to make services non-Dash exclusive is not compelling. In fact, for most instances, I think it is welcome. Dash excels relative to other cryptos. It doesn't need to hide. The market chooses what is digital cash and the market is choosing Dash. Competition isn't a scary word.
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0 points,3 months ago
The great fallacy in all this is that somehow a better website can cause one crypto to win over another. It is no coincidence that this idea is being put forward by people who make websites. It is like saying that pepsi-cola could beat coca-cola in the marketplace by building a better website. Pure hogwash.

Take a look at getmonero.org. Is this coin worth more than Dash because of their fabulous website that is engaging people and converting them with calls to action?
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0 points,3 months ago
Stop kidding yourself. No one is going to fund you if you can't get funds from the Dash DAO. How about showing us your LLC Operating Agreement. That would be a start.
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2 points,3 months ago
Really, how did you screw this up? The MNOs are the friendliest, most optimistic, trusting group of people in the world. We gave money to convicted felon Charlie Shrem when he asked. We funded Drako's African money pit for many many months!

You had Amanda B. Johnson on your side! How did you screw this up so fast?
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0 points,3 months ago
Amanda can think for herself alright. She thinks ONLY of herself.
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3 points,3 months ago
Dude you are an obsessive massive troll on this proposal. Don't you have something better to do? That's saying something, coming from me.
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-1 point,3 months ago
Why does every sociopath, pain in the ass have the word "Dash" in their username?
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8 points,3 months ago
Emotional outbursts should not be part of any budget proposal and putting up six seperate budget proposals is unnecessary taxing masternode owners in their voting task.

You wanted our attention ? You have it. I'm not sure you will like the outcome though.
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8 points,3 months ago
I would like to point out that on the last day of voting in February, 179 NO votes came in all at once and put an end to Dash.red in its second month, and was likely done so to make room for both of DashCrypto's proposals. Dash.red was required a much smaller amount per month than DashCrypto. Dash.red was a website that was already more popular, with better stats, than DashCrypto ever was or likely will be. It was a ongoing business with an 18 month history that was very popular with the entire community, and brought in new people every day.

I understand the frustration that Julio feels with the DAO because I feel many of the same things, but I think this way of getting support is self-destructive. Creating 6 proposals near the last day of a voting cycle is excessive.
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6 points,3 months ago
VOTING NO!

Absurd 24 months!
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19 points,3 months ago
JulioDash, have you ever considered that you're the problem?... so negative... what a terrible attitude. Calling the very people you want to vote for you "disgusting".

You are your own worst enemy!

I will not vote for any of the 5 additional "Decide how much to allocate on each cycle." proposals you have recently posted. You are setting a very bad precedent for future proposal owners, spamming the network with proposals and making a mockery of our treasury.

The writing's on the wall, this will not end well! I'd rather the network play it smart now, sever ties before we funnel any more treasury funds into this project and potentially avert a crisis further down the line. If we cave-in and fund this project we are only encouraging this type of behaviour to continue and we'll have much more at stake to lose next time round. I refuse to support a self-entitled drama queen that uses emotional blackmail and threatens the network. JulioDash is rude and obnoxious and clearly has no respect for DCG. These kind of people have no place in our treasury. What does it say about our community if we choose to tolerate this.

I appreciate many love Amanda's videos. I do too! but if we decide to condone these outbursts and threats it's like the network is paying ransom and rewarding bad behaviour. I urge MNO's to stay strong in your conviction for what you believe is best for the network with a long-term outlook. If Amanda truly wants to do what's in the best interest of the network she should have no issues with listening to our feedback on how we truly feel that we want Amanda to submit a solo proposal to make videos again for the main Dash YouTube channel. I'd rather suffer a little short-term pain now than risk taking a much greater pain down the road when JulioDash throws his next tantrum and lists his demands to the network. I refuse to be an enabler and encourage JulioDash's negative and self-destructive behaviour.

Many MNO's have already expressed grave concerns about JulioDash's toxic personality, lack of social skills and emotional intelligence. JulioDash shouldn't be surprised that we don't want him affiliated or connected to any project that represents the network. Many that have interacted with JulioDash prior to these proposals realized that he was a walking time-bomb and a liability to the network. Am I surprised that JulioDash is throwing his toys out of the pram because he didn't get his way? No, not at all. Insulting DCG's efforts and MNO's won't help Dash Crypto gain any support. MNO's will not forget this outburst. JuiloDash has just dug himself a bottomless hole that he'll not be able to climb out of. I'm not sure he can come back from this. If you talk to and treat the community like they are stupid don't be surprised or complain if they won't support you. Simple.

Threatening the network that you will go else where has never been a winning strategy. That's a losers mentality. It also sounds very reminiscent of previous failures. The network is fatigued and refuses to allocate funding to projects that ultimately let us down. JulioDash hasn't done himself any favours and demonstrated precisely why he isn't to be trusted in any capacity.

"Last chance. Vote wisely."

I'm afraid this isn't our last chance JulioDash, quite the contrary this was your last chance and you blew it!

"Since our services aren't appreciated, maybe it's time we take them somewhere else"

Good luck getting funding or support from other crypto projects with dashcrypto.org domain name. I hear SmartCash has a treasury...

What did I say in my previous comment on your main proposal, as soon as you don't get your own way you will go elsewhere.

"I'm also very concerned about JulioDash's behaviour and poor judgement both on Discord and Reddit. No-one in the community knows who this faceless individual is. Yet he's a moderator of the troll infested r/DashUncensored subreddit and is creating new subreddits like /r/CryptoNiggas in the past month with the Dash Crypto account! https://www.reddit.com/user/dashcrypto/

JulioDash also refuses to be apart of Dash community channels. It appears he just wants to rule, not listen to others and create his own little kingdoms r/dashcrypto r/CryptoHomies r/CryptoNiggas r/DashUncensored

I do honestly think he'll try and fork Dash if he doesn't get his way. Old-School Darkcoin / Dash peeps will remember 'very similar' individuals that went off on to other projects like PIVX and SmartCash. I see the same character traits in JulioDash. "

We saw all the red flags early on... Alarm bells were ringing!

It also turns out TroyDASH doesn't have a crystal ball and can't see the future after-all who said this risk was non-sense "pure FUD conspiracy nutjobbery with no basis in reality." It doesn't look like a conspiracy nutjob theory now does it? The networks reservations we're 'right on the money' so to speak. Faith in network restored.

Thank you JulioDash for showing your true colours. You have just proved the majority of the network correct that you are not to be trusted in any position to represent the community. Your affiliation with Amanda is damaging to her long-standing reputation as people are rightfully questioning her judgement now. Especially as Amanda has put herself forward as a candidate for DIF supervisor position. It's very troubling indeed. As I stated previously:

"I don't know why Amanda keeps aligning herself with these type of individuals and outsiders. She makes informative videos on Dash topics but her own personal judgement leaves a lot to be desired as we all remember the shocking 'ignore Dash' marketing campaign, failed PMBC PR proposals, plus other failed marketing proposals with Russian counterpart etc.

I just wish Amanda would work directly with DCG and create videos again for the official Dash YouTube channel that built up subscribers based on her previous Dash Detailed videos. Now that 'official' Dash channel is collecting dust. That's what I truly want to see and I believe that alone would benefit Dash so much more than an imitation dashcrypto.org website ever could."

And it's true, most MNO's I spoke to only supported Dash Crypto previously because of Amanda's involvement. Why? because JulioDash has zero credibility with community and because that those who have had the misfortune of communicating with him are fully aware that he has a history of behaving like a child throwing tantrums. However Amanda has history and reputation with Dash. JulioDash has just damaged your chances of ever getting funding again with your involvement with this project. Amanda, I hope you take the initiative to fly solo and do not underestimate the network. We love your videos and work Amanda just not at the expense of supporting this project because of certain individuals involved. It's just a crying shame that the videos you created have now been tainted with dashcrypto.org branding especially now it's future is in jeopardy. This was not a wise move and it will not age well. These videos had great potential to be used as long-term resources. Please consider this in the future. Now they will serve as a constant reminder to the network of what not to do. Please consider re-editing videos with main dash digital cash logo.

I honestly feel like the network has just dodged a bullet. I'll be relieved if we cut funding off entirely before JulioDash potentially causes long-lasting damage to Dash. I hope JulioDash can keep his emotions in check and not go venting again on subreddits talking down Dash and community hanging out with the trolls and haters.

Bye, Felicia
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0 points,3 months ago
BlueMoon,
I stand by my comments about the FUD conspiracy. You were saying they were going to fork Dash. I even acknowledged that anyone who is not funded by the budget anymore could go to other projects, but that is not the same thing as forking the coin.
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6 points,3 months ago
My objection to your proposals has nothing to do with your past work, it has to do with you competing with some already good projects that are in flight, and that's not an efficient use of limited funds.

If you want to keep dashcrypto running and keep up your great work on the web wallet, sure I'll fund that. If you have interesting ideas that nobody else is doing, might fund that too. What I won't do is fund things like dash places and new mobile apps when we have existing proposals that are funded an in-flight that are looking quite promising (as an example).

I'm sorry if this scope is too narrow for you, I'm sorry if you want to make this a lifestyle job for yourself and there isn't enough funding. I value the work you've done, I value the huge contributions Amanda has done over the years, and I value Pete as well, truly a gentlemen if you've ever met him.

But beyond that, sorry, I will not be bullied into making bad business decisions. You ask me to choose wisely. I have done so.
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0 points,3 months ago
There appears to be and old DashCrypto proposal that has just got voted through. This was for 240 DASH (40K) and there are still appears to be remaining payments on that old proposal if MNOs do not vote against it passing again:

https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DashCrypto-Team-Comp-Bare-Minimum
https://app.dashnexus.org/proposals/dashcrypto-team-comp-bare-minimum/overview

It seems to me that by posting many SPAM proposals JulioDash took the attention off the old proposal to allow it to go through with just 17 votes.

I am now also changing my votes on the old DashCrypto proposal to "no" I personally do not want that proposal to go through for next funding round for reasons I gave in this proposal.

I suggest MNOs also reconsider their votes on that proposal based on the responses given by JulioDash

I think we also need some means in place to prevent this type of issue happening again. We should be able to easily see all proposals open by any single proposal owner all in one place. If we had, I'm sure that old DashCrypto proposal would not have been allowed to go through. If I had notice that old proposal was still open I would have voted against it passing this month.
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8 points,3 months ago
Julio, first of all DashCrypto is a shitty name.
Dash is technically a cryptocurrency, yes, but if you paid attention to our general marketing strategy, even if crypto technology is beneath its hood, with Evolution Dash tries to move away from being identified and perceived as crypto by the public, because of the inherent lack of userfriendlyness associated with virtually all cryptocurrencies.
The name crypto is a bad name to use in such a domain, as it is not consistent with, but is in fact detrimental to our current and future marketing efforts.

Furthermore, please stop spamming the treasury by submitting 6 proposals at the same time.
You are requesting 10,800 Dash from the treasury over the next 2 years. This is way too much for running a website.
Proposal owners should not see the treasury as a get-rich-quick-scheme, this is not the purpose of the treasury.
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13 points,3 months ago
Has whining about MNOs ever helped any proposal?
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1 point,3 months ago
What is this? Even after following the link, there seems to be nothing there.
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0 points,3 months ago
Now I see it but I can't delete my comment.
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-1 point,3 months ago
I've been extremely busy these last few months so haven't chimed in much about proposals. In my opinion Julio has done an amazing job. Issue is a very large part of having a proposal is dealing with a community where a small fraction of members really believe that everyone is here for the wrong motives. I remember a proposal I did that was to allocate funds to getting developer documentation made for Dash. I didn't say how long it was going to take and 2 months later I was being accused of running off with funds (7k USD at the time). It wasn't true and https://dash-docs.github.io/ was made shortly after with someone contracted with those funds who later joined Dash Core. That is a happy story. I really hope there is a happy ending here as well. Julio deserves praise as does anyone willing to devote a significant amount of time, money and energy to making the world a better place, and that's what I like to think we are doing, trying to improve this world as best we can.

I also think Julio is extremely frustrated and this is his venting out. I don't think this is the wise move and I'd be surprised if words like "Last chance. Vote wisely" work. But I can understand that he's tired of having his motives put into question by some individuals who haven't spent the time and resources he has, or have the experience he has.

In the end of the day the work should really speak for itself since it's already out. If people haven't visited the site you should. With a webwallet integrated it just looks great. I'll go one step further, it's amazing. If you haven't tried it out I think you should before passing judgement. If you have and are so eager to criticize someone who is using his own money at this point I'm not sure what to say.
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4 points,3 months ago
I agree wholeheartedly with quantumexplorer's comments. Julio has done an *amazing* job and that should be recognized! The amount of work and expertise that has gone into DashCrypto is simply impressive.

At the same time, BlueMoon has outlined several relevant points, prime in my mind are "social skills" and "emotional intelligence". Julio, don't get me wrong - I believe you do have the expertise for doing data analysis, A/B testing, figuring out what works and how to serve site visitors what they actually want. The network *needs* this type of data/work/analysis.

But, this saddens me to say, your "emotional outbursts" are damaging to your project and everyone working with you. Personally, I am more forgiving of any emotional outbursts by anyone - but many are less understanding. In order to get funding from the network, you need *widespread* approval - NOT just approval from people who "get" it or who appreciate your work. But approval from a wide portion of the network, including (or especially) your critics. This is by design. The 10% net positive voting threshold was set purposely to ensure widespread approval and stop any projects that were too controversial from getting *treasury* funds - Evan Duffield explained this in one of the earliest interviews.

In lieu of *treasury* funds, you can still raise funds through voluntary donations. Some cryptos fund complete, expensive projects, solely through voluntary donations. That avenue still exists for you, as long as you continue the good work and remain calm.

A final note - if you are unwilling to deal with criticisms (whether valid or invalid) would you consider hiring someone else to speak for you? I wish you would have just focused on the data/analytics/building your project, and hired someone else to manage dealing with the "disgusting" MNOs.

Not all voters were against you, and I'm sorry more didn't speak out in support.
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4 points,3 months ago
The webwallet is great indeed. Maybe it can be ported to dash.org.
I guess Julios efforts are doomed after this stunt.
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