Proposal “KuvacashBaseFunding002“ (Active)Back

Title:Kuvacash Base Funding 002
Monthly amount: 622 DASH (306662 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (4 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-04-18 / 2018-08-15 (added on 2018-04-10)
Final voting deadline: in 4 days
Votes: 351 Yes / 122 No / 18 Abstain
Will be funded: No. This proposal needs additional 247 Yes votes to become funded.
Manually vote on this proposal (DashCore - Tools - Debugconsole):
gobject vote-many 5e709fed8f0a3532da7e5191617474c04213f8b30d7391abb4b05252b4d9136a funding yes

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Proposal description

Kuvacash Base Funding Proposal 002
This is the second base funding proposal for the Kuvacash Project to bring Dash to Zimbabwe and the wider African continent. 

A huge thanks to all of our supporters over the last 6 months, and to the Dash community at large for getting right behind Kuvacash. The teams across the org have all been flat-out, but we have now managed to get huge traction across our development domains, including product, strategic partners, regulatory partnerships as well as progress on the ground in Harare with the regulator and local government. Key partnerships have been established, which allow us to operate in Zimbabwe as a money services business. We hope you have enjoyed our update webinars for the community, including the live demonstration of the Kuva Wallet last week :) - we'll continue to keep everyone updated on progress, please do give us your feedback and we'll also have more to share as we continue on with establishing Kuvacash and bringing Dash to Africa in a big way!

Team Kuva

Our latest April Live Webinar Q&A update is the best way to see what we have achieved so far:


What is Kuvacash?
A way for Dash to realise its mission as mainstream digital cash. A service that allows users to store Dash, on and off-ramp to USD fiat, receive international remittances, make local payments and access essential local services. Kuvacash is a secure ‘private bank’ in your pocket. It allows storing, receiving and sending money to anyone – from your friends and neighbours through to your family across the world, with a touch. An agent and branch network will allow users to cash-in to Dash or out into USD fiat conveniently. Simple to use merchant services allow anyone to start taking Dash payments and manage the currency risk. Essential service access that users don’t have to wait in queues to pay for.

Kuvacash starts in Zimbabwe and will expand across the African continent …
Many people across 54 countries in Africa are severely unbanked or underbanked, and have had a poor experience with the ‘fiat’ currency or electronic money that their country uses. If people can’t pay or get paid easily, they spend a lot of time and money making transactions or waiting in queues. It's often a huge hassle to access and pay for essential services like health or transportation, or to get cash, and it affects the quality of life people have across the African continent. Zimbabwe has a particularly acute problem, which Kuvacash is directly addressing.

Kuvacash was funded by the DGBB

Funding of 1,695 Dash was received via DGBB funding between September 2017-November 2017. This has allowed the Kuvacash founders James Saruchera and Andreiko (Drako) Kerdemelidis to bring together an elite international team from across the globe, to set up and implement the project. The website for the project is at

Kuvacash features
1.   Obtaining and safely storing Dash cryptocurrency in an HD wallet.
2.   Easily remit money to friends and family at low cost across borders
3.   Cash out to USD bills, and cash being always available through the Kuva Agent and Branch partner network.
4.   Anyone can receive and make payments using the method that is easiest for them. 
  I.   through a contact’s number
  II.   6-digit ‘Kuvacode’, 
  III.   QR code 
  IV.   NFC
  V.   Automatic/regular/stored payment
  VI.   (Advanced) Dash wallet transaction
5.   Seamlessly accessing and paying for essential services like healthcare, transportation, utilities, rates and taxes.
6.   Anyone can become a merchant and take payments and control their currency exposure.
7.   People can apply to take short or medium-term loans that they may need from time-to-time 

Kuvacash Core: Functionality under development:
1.   The Kuvacash Wallet – a BIP32/39/44 secure wallet for storing cryptocurrency.
2.   Kuvacash Agent – an agent application with currency exchange provisioning (Dash-USD)
3.   Kuvacash Treasury – a secure client, agent and merchant treasury, hot and cold crypto-wallet infrastructure and ledger with multi-exchange integration, security and audit features.
4.   Kuvacash Merchant – a set of merchant tools for businesses wanting to take payments from Kuvacash wallets.
5.   Kuvacash Remittances – a web-based money remittance service that sends funds to a mobile Kuvacash wallet anywhere in the world. Includes partner integrations (banking, branch partners, net settlement, reporting)
6.   Kuvacash Reporting – a management console for all Kuvacash operational activities, including audit, reporting and compliance
7.   Utility Notes – tradable digital business crypto-collateral used across the network. Agents, Master Agents and Merchants must purchase Utility Notes which are held by Kuvacash, to activate their service provisioning.

Kuvacash Roadmap:
Propositions under development
I.   Kuva Cash (Core consumer p2p payments and remittances)
II.   Kuva Business (Merchant payment solutions)
III.   Kuva Transport (Touch to pay-per-ride for commuter and taxicab/minicab)
IV.   Kuva Utility (Pay electricity, gas, water automatically)
V.   Kuva Health (Book and pay for a doctor or health professional)
VI.   Kuva Authority (Pay taxes, rates etc)
VII.   Kuva Finance (Obtain finance based on your wallet history)

Kuvacash Product Development
1.   Regulatory MVP product completed and demonstrated to the regulator (RBZ) successfully.
2.   All key feature aspects working and successfully demonstrated on the Proposal Update 005 and on Testnet (links below)
     •   Sending funds via phone number
     •   Request funds & Scan-to-pay
     •   Agent booking and cash-out app features
3.   MVP of reporting and user administration portal completed, pilot MVP under development
4.   SMS loop validation and on-boarding flow, including creation and recovery of wallets completed to MVP level
5.   Development of treasury system and partner net settlement (back-office) in progress
6.   Partner integration requirements work in progress (Web-based money remittance, branch cash-out, net settlement)

Development Staging
Many other features and propositions will be staged as appropriate (as per above roadmap list). Currently the remittance partner integrations/net settlement accounting systems, treasury and consumer-facing apps (web and mobile) form our key priorities through to post-pilot.

Kuvacash Partner Development
Partner development is one of Kuva’s critical strategies to gaining support across Africa. This activity has been scaled up appropriately since a lot of momentum has now been generated, with several partnerships formalised. James Saruchera has now relocated to Harare in Zimbabwe from Sydney, Spiro Antonopoulos (VP Partnerships) and Asaf Meir (Product Development Lead) have both visited Harare to complete agreements with key partners. The following can be shared with regards to completed agreements;

1.   Signed NDA and defined a pilot project a Tier 2 regulated financial services company in Zimbabwe that is one of the largest movers of funds in and out of Zimbabwe, on both the consumer and business side. 
2.   Signed MOU with a Tier 2 regulated, account taking bank, which has 14,000 account holders and branches in Zimbabwe's five major cities. They expect to be regulated at the Tier 1 level in the next month.
3.   NDA with a fully regulated (Tier 1 & 2) commercial bank with branches in Zimbabwe's five major cities. Collaboration details to be shared in future. 
4.   Met with Mayor of Harare, Bernard Menyanyeni, presenting our project plan, and received positive response and support.
5.   Met with Director of Public Works, Eng. Chawatama, presenting our project plan, and received positive response and support.
6.   Started collaboration with City, University of London, Department of Physics, focused on development of social norms in distributed networks.
7.   Started collaboration with Arizona State University, as expert participants in a blockchain leadership and social impact research study.

Reporting and transparency
The Dash DGBB and treasury funds Kuvacash’s activities, and from the beginning of the project Kuvacash has been providing regular updates to the network. We wish to set the standard for proposal updates and reporting; Kuvacash is a DAO-funded project and a new kind of digital business (see Utility Notes below) with an ambitious roadmap that is asking for ongoing support.

We believe in radical transparency, and in showing as much detail as possible without compromising our other functions or competitiveness as the organization grows. The following 5 live progress report webinars have been produced so far, and are published on our Kuvacash YouTube channel. These include proposal consultation pre-funding through to bi-monthly full updates from the team and monthly mini-updates.

As part of this radical transparency, Kuvacash also have a documentary team, funded independently by the Dash DAO (Frame 48), following and recording the process of Kuvacash getting Dash established as a money system that people can rely on and use in their day-to-day lives in Zimbabwe. We do ask that MNO’s continue to fund Frame 48’s amazing team – they understand Kuva’s mission and know how to capture and tell the story such that MNO’s and the wider Dash community can see our partners, our work and ongoing strategy. We feel that capturing and showcasing this narrative will be valuable for Dash and Kuvacash to bring other partners, investors and supporters on board. See Frame 48’s ‘teaser trailer’ here of ‘Starting from Scratch’ where James and Drako explain what the situation is in Zimbabwe that Kuva, with the help of the Dash and the DAO, are working to solve:

Utility Note Infrastructure – A new kind of digital business
Kuvacash will use a specific cryptocurrency (provisionally called ‘Notes’) as a ‘Utility Note’ on the network. Software for the distribution of ERC-20 based Utility Notes as part of a VCO or ‘Vote Controlled Offering’ to Masternodes has been completed, and the whitelist registration for the distribution will be posted by 11th April 2018.

Why are Utility Notes used in Kuvacash?
Notes are a crypto-collateral which needs to be purchased and posted to a ‘Collateral Account’ at Kuvacash. It is necessary for anyone wanting to participate and provision services for Kuvacash to have posted these Notes as collateral. For example, an Agent, Master Agent or Merchant will need to fund their Collateral Account as a part of signing up to deliver a service to Kuvacash.
The use of Utility Notes as a business collateral is for the purpose of ensuring that people have stake in the network and remain incentivized to deliver a high quality of service. Notes are also used as rewards – a proportion of commissions are paid to Agents, Master Agents, and Merchants using Notes. Availability of Utility Notes

We anticipate there would be a limited amount (c. 1 Billion) Utility Notes in existence, and that they will be an ERC-20 token. The initial cache of Utility Notes will need to be selected and purchased by Kuvacash publically and directly off a third-party exchange. There are several technical and legal reasons for this, which we will of course discuss in due course. Kuvacash will maintain an Ethereum wallet infrastructure to hold Utility Notes for users. 

In the future, it should be possible to purchase Notes either on a cryptocurrency exchange, through a provider selling them directly, or from Kuvacash itself.

Can Users/Holders sell their Notes?
It is anticipated that users will be able to draw out their Notes from their collateral account at any time to an Ethereum account if they wish to sell them – for example, if they no longer wish to be an agent, or if collateral requirements are lowered. They can sell it to any other person wishing to license themselves as an Agent, or can put it on an available exchange to sell it for cryptocurrency or fiat. If a user draws out their Notes from Kuvacash, they may lose their ability to deliver services as, for example, an Agent, Master Agent or Merchant.

Are Utility Notes a kind of security or ‘investment’ in Kuvacash?
No, they are not. Measures and processes have been taken to ensure that in their acquisition and distribution, that similar to Dash, they are not considered or intended to be a security. They may have a variable price since they are a publicly available cryptocurrency, but they are not used to distribute any dividend, profit or cashflow.

Why would anyone be interested in owning Utility Notes?
If someone wants to provide services for Kuvacash, they will need to have posted a corresponding amount of Utility Notes to Kuvacash – this is the primary reason for acquisition of Utility Notes. There are to be a limited amount of Utility Notes in circulation, and as Kuvacash expands the demand for the Utility Notes should also grow, since people will need to purchase them and post as collateral in Kuvacash, enabling them to provide services to the network. This will increase the scarcity of Utility Notes.
Any other business could also acquire and use the cryptocurrency Kuvacash uses as Utility Notes for their own business.

What is the VCO or Vote Controlled Offering?
This is a method of distributing a proportion of Utility Notes to Masternode Owners (MNO’s) on the Dash cryptocurrency network via a validated air-drop. It is a cryptographic technology which verifies which masternodes on the Dash network voted on the Kuvacash proposal. Masternodes that voted YES, NO or ABSTAIN – i.e. those that engaged and voted in the initial proposal process that successfully funded Kuvacash in late 2017 – will be allowed to claim Utility Notes.

Funding roadmap
Comprehensive financials have been produced by Judith Miara (VP Finance, Legal and Operations), and the summary actuals and forecasts shared with the entire Dash community publicly. 
1.   First seed funding cycle for pilot achieved through Dash DAO – 1695 Dash
2.   Private contributions 
3.   Further fundraising will be implemented through cryptocurrency sales and DAO/DGBB network raises.
4.   Masternodes who participated in the DAO/DGBB voting process related to Kuvacash’s initial funding receive Utility Notes, used as business collateral through a unique Vote Controlled Offering (VCO) process.

Financial forecast 

Kuva Core (One Kuva - Project Co)   Projected(USD)
MONTH                                                                     Apr-18   May-18   Jun-18   Jul-18
Executive Team                                                         30,640   30,640   30,640   30,640
Product Development (Solidus)                              25,514   25,514   25,516  
Software Req Dev and Design                                                                              30,000
Core Software and Website Development            27,000   27,000   27,000   20,000
Visual and Conceptual Design                                 8,000      8,000      8,000      8,000
Software Development                                          10,700   10,700   10,700   10,700
Total Product Development                                 71,214   71,214   71,216   68,700
Legal & Other Advisory                                 26,527   32,902   38,027   37,777
Zim Operations, Office, Travel                              21,500   21,500   21,500   21,500
Contingency (15%)                                                22,482   23,438   24,207   23,793        
TOTAL RUN                                                         172,363   179,694   185,590   182,410

Key Components of Budget Request
Kuvacash is on an accelerated schedule for pilot launch.  This has been achieved by intensive software development and initiation of a number of critical strategic partnerships on the ground that have provided access to accelerated regulatory compliance, payment processing, payment and cash management infrastructure, and user outreach.  In order to maintain this pace and deliver a timely and effective pilot, we are provisioning a budget at least one quarter in advance.  One of the key reasons for the current need to return to the network at this time is the greater than 70% devaluation in Dash since the end of the year. Note: This funding is base funding, and does not include such as conferences, promotions and special projects, such as the Moneyconf attendance with Dash Core. We will update the network and apply for funding as appropriate for projects which are out of scope of this funding request.

Current Proposal: 
4 months funding @ $182,000/month.  
622 DASH (290.00 USD/Dash + 5 Dash proposal fee) per month   

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Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

Submit comment
2 points,9 hours ago
1 ) how much of the VCO note will the masternode own ? If this is anything less than a majority
2) I am assuming only MNO that currently are running, and no new MNO can claim the VCO notes ? If not what the mechanism behind it ?
3) how much will you keep for yourself initally ?, and how much will you initially offer on the free market ?
0 points,2 days ago
Please note that there is a small minority attempting to disparage our project, mainly across backchannels, but also by continuing to spam the proposal threads and related VCO proposal, see below.

Luckily, we do have very strong supporters who have been letting us know that this is the case, and have also addressing both the proposal spam and backchannels, so a big thank you to everyone who has helped us get this far and for letting us all know what is happening behind the scenes.

I urge anyone who hears from a persistent detractor, or feels that we are ‘difficult to communicate with’ to PM me directly, anytime. I have spoken with numerous MNO’s, and we really do appreciate it when people take the time out to reach out to us for a chat. Just PM me on Dash Nation Discord (Max Yoga on DN).

As can be seen from our numerous interviews and live webinar updates to the network, we continue to make incredible progress towards making Dash a mainstream digital cash in Zimbabwe that actually helps people get things done in their day-to-day lives.

We will be bringing Dash to Africa, in a big way, no matter what, and are very grateful to our MNO and Dash Community supporters for the faith they have given us to move ahead and make history.

Drako and James
-1 point,2 days ago
Hi Kuvacash,

In place of creating your own ethereum based token, cant you use dash and develop any extra features necessary. Maybe use a portion of the budget to do that and open-source it.

Otherwise, new users might think that kuva is a different company without much relation to dash.

Best wises
-2 points,2 days ago
Hi Jeremy,
Not sure what you mean - Kuvacash is entirely based on Dash; we are bringing Dash to Zimbabwe as a beachhead payments and money system, with related services and then aim to launch across Africa.

The Ethereum we use is for the VCO and Utility Note issuance only, for MNO’s to be involved in Kuvacash. We’ve described what their function is in the proposal text, let me know if you have any more questions about this though.

3 points,4 days ago
This sounds very interesting, but i have some questions:

Is the software you develop open source? That would be very useful for projects who want to build a similar system in other regions.

What is the reason for using an Ethereum based token? If its just about the collateral, you could simply require merchants etc to hold a certain amount of Dash.
-3 points,4 days ago
Hi Tovarish,
The software we are developing is not all open source, we are also using proprietary libraries. We do however plan to have an open API in future.

Kuvacash uses Utility Notes for a lot more than just business collateral, we don’t want agents taking any exchange risk on holding Dash (we have found that they don’t want to), so this is part of what Kuvacash system does - it allows agents to trade Dash without having to take any exchange risk, so this is why we split the collateral system from the Dash payment network.

We use Ethereum for the Notes because of its features that let us perform a variety of tasks requiring smart contract functionality, also because it is simple for people to hold a custom token. It would be ideal is if we could do this all on the Dash platform, I feel that this is something that could be developed in future.

2 points,6 days ago
Dear Kuvateam,
I submit questions that for me are unanswered to date
For me and certainly for others, this would help in understanding the direction taken by the Kuvacash project.
1) - How many Note token will you issue in total?
2) - How many Note token will you distribute to the MN who voted?
3) -If all the MN who voted claim their Note token, how many Note tokens in number and % of the total Note token?
4) - What % MN can claim Note token compared to the number of MN supporting the entire Dash network so far?
5) - What mechanism or code prevents the arbitrary distribution of Note token, knowing all that this can entail (like corruption) ?
6) - What mechanism or code prevents the MN network from being outvoted?
7) - What have you planned in the case where the voting rights of your corner become majority owned by people having no more interest in Dash at a time T?
8) - How do you justify that an MN supporting the Dash network at a time T fully and completely (which includes all transactions allowing Kuvacash to exist), does not have voting rights vis-à-vis Kuvacash?
9) - Do you question the relevance and effectiveness of the MN voting system as working in dash by not wanting to use it as a voting system for internal decisions in Kuvacash?
10) - Why another coin and not just use a proportionality between Dash and your internal token system?
11) - Why deprive Dash to serve as the only means of exchange of your token, for the future users of Kuvacash?
12) - Is the Kuvacash project entirely dedicated to Dash, or at some point there will be a possibility that Kuvacash will do without Dash and can become one of its competitors? If not, did you contract it?
13) - To this day who is closer to Dash than Ripple by Kuvacash, on the criteria of the centralization of Note token by a private company, with the free arbitrary distribution of their Token?
14) - Do you think that the MNO financed Kuvacash to make a bridge between Dash and the real use while taking into account the legal realities in Zim, or finance a corner exploiting the blockchain Dash while losing decentralization and losing the trustless aspect?
15) - Do you think it would have been simpler, more efficient and more cost effective for you to go through an ICO?
16) - In order to be consistent with Dash, can you simply consider a Kuvacash pass under the control of the DAO, which would allow you and every person and company flying to use or work with Kuvacash to simply have to purchase Dash?

I thank in advance my MNO colleagues for letting the Kuvacash team answer.
If it were impossible for Drako to understand what I am writing, maybe another person from Team Kurvacash would be kind enough to make the effort and respond.

-6 points,6 days ago
Jol, please read these replies, as you seem to ignore replies and continue to push your agenda (to disrupt this proposal) by mixing in old questions with some new ones.

Jol please also consider sending your questions in French to Drako so he (and us MNOs) can decipher what it is exactly you are trying to say.
Your questions/comments can get quite scrambled, it is hard to figure out and address some or most of what you are saying.

I have been through this personally with you on Discord but you still seem to have some conspiracy in your head that somehow the Kuvacash team is not dedicated to Dash. Also, in your question on this page below (which you never followed up Drako's reply), you made false statements that the team is not hitting their milestones and that escrow was required.

ALL milestones have been hit, you just need to watch the regular updates.
Excrow is not required, we went through this in past proposals and this fact was even confirmed by Dash Core staff themselves DIRECTLY on the proposal.

The Kuvacash project is built around using Dash as the main and only currency. The whole point of the project is to land Dash in Zimbabwe.
It is one of the main projects which is completely aligned with Dash Core, they are even promoting Dash side-by-side with Core at the upcoming conference in June.

Regardless of your personal beliefs about their intentions, Drako has pointed out they are willing to sign an exclusive agreement with Dash (in replies to other comments below).

The simplest answer is usually the most correct.

This team could have easily raised $10MM+ in an ICO with their own coin offering. The reason they didn't is because they are all massive Dash believers and holders, a point that comes across very strongly whenever you actually follow any of their updates. They want to land DASH in Zimbabwe.


The VCO was simply a way to try and share back with the MNOs. I see that Drako is going to put this up to a vote now if the MNOs want it to proceed.
They want to share the project with us! I hope all MNOs vote YES on the VCO proposal when it is up.

Nothing about the VCO swayed the vote, as it was announced after the proposal was already well funded and the third month of funding has almost closed. You can see in dash vote tracker that the votes were still flat after the VCO announcement, and the proposal passed as per usual.

It is painfully obvious that you can't rely on google translate, as you have been doing.

If you don't know what the Utility Notes will be used for, or if you have any other concerns about the project, I encourage you to have a fluent english speaking friend watch all the update videos and explain the project to you in French.

-7 points,6 days ago
Hi Jol,
Thanks for the list of questions regarding the VCO. We are going to generate a separate proposal to put to the MNO’s whether they want the VCO to go ahead.

Note (1) - The VCO is a voluntary solution from Kuvacash to allow MNO’s participation in the project, introduced after voting was completed and funding was locked in from the original project. Covered in as much detail as we can currently give in this proposal.

Note (2) The software is completed (smart contracts, web interface etc), legals are also complete, now we are going to do one more consultation with MNO’s via DGBB to ensure we have 10% MNO agreement before we push the ‘go’ button on claims processing.

Note (3) We do not create the currency that is used for the VCO, if we did that would be a token issuance. Users will know how many Notes they have and the total supply when we start claims, not beforehand. There are several legal reasons for this, as you can understand with the scrutiny Coin offerings and sales are being given, we are being extremely cautious.

Note (4) To claim Notes is completely voluntary; even if you are an MNO who voted on the initial Kuvacash proposal, you do not have to claim them if you don’t want them. I suggest that claiming them is a good idea - all Kuvacash founders and management are incentivised by Notes alone.

Neither myself (nor anyone on my team) clearly understood your points
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,14,16 in enough detail to provide responses.

If you PM me something in French, I will try find someone to translate to English and we can look at providing responses if appropriate. Send to Max Yoga on Dash Nation

I note that the rest of your points are addressed in other responses on the proposal.

-2 points,5 days ago
Hi guys, looks like the Kuvacash team have posted their proposal asking for a go-ahead on the VCO.

This shows the team are more than willing to listen to MNOs concerns around all aspects of their project.

I find the VCO to be a super interesting proposal, as I believe it creates the second Sub-DAO for Dash, (the first being Dash Core).

Voting YES for both.
2 points,7 days ago
KuvaCash has demonstrated real progress and has been very punctual with the updates. Voting yes. Carry on.

For those who are critical because KuvaCash has obtained a license as a money handling entity, I disagree. This in no way means KuvaCash is controlled by, or sold out to the government. I don't necessarily like everything my govt is doing, but I still pay my taxes and have a driver's license.

Rather, I congratulate the team for successfully negotiating the complexities of the bureaucracy and obtaining the license. This means progress.

2 points,7 days ago
Great communication and progress! Feel even more confident about voting YES this time around.

Projects like this is what is going to create real use-cases for Dash and truly make it a global currency.
4 points,7 days ago
Thank you for the support WhiteRose, really appreciate it.

-3 points,11 days ago
I do not agree the way to get DASH established in Africa it to co-operate with the Government and regulators in Africa. Look at the mess the have caused so far. They have done such a bang up first class job haven't they and now we want to co-operate with them and they are going to co-operate right back. I think it is time for a WAKE UP people. There is not going to be any co-operation with a governance system that is corrupt. People need to start using DASH at the grass roots level to such a level that it becomes mainstream and that something nobody can stop. Governments and regulators need to adapt to the people. Not the other way around. For the first time in history we can own our own money. WE have the power. Not the governments and not the regulators. Their role should be to assist us.

Why do you think Africa has so many problems people? Why? The reason is that Africa is the richest country in the world in real terms. True value is not money. It is resources from the earth and human contributions. Creativity, labour and human resources is what is TRUE wealth and Africa has that in abundance. So how do super powers control that wealth. They create instigate corruption, chaos and war, poverty and disaster. This distracts the people to a point where they are thinking about survival and not their valuable resources that are then sold of for a pittance to wealthy nations.

Have you never considered why the trully richest countries in the world all have problems. Venezuela being the other country that comes to mind with the largest oil reserve in the entire world. More than Saudi Arabia. Oh, and look it just happens to be a country going through a crisis what a co-incidence. Just like Africa.

The way to establish a currency in a country like Africa is to go grass roots. Forget the governments and regulators. Get it so widely established low key that the corrupt governments and regulators can't stop it.

I'm sure I'm going to get a load of feedback saying how wrong I am with this information. If that is the case so be it. I would however much appreciate it if you would please keep your attacks to my arguments and not my character as you have done previously. I welcome your feedback Drako and others but let's try and keep it civil.
3 points,11 days ago
Hi DeepBlue,

1. Grassroots and regulatory - based approaches are not mutually exclusive. Regardless of this we ARE grassroots! We are empowering everyone from the man/woman on the street, the informal vegetable trader to the small tyre repair business.

2. Our direct experience and traction on the ground in Zimbabwe, (again, please watch our update 005) has been overwhelmingly positive; we have had zero blockers, and we are now free to operate in line with our partners ADLA regulation.

It is necessary to take focused action in combination with a grassroots approach to make a meaningful difference and make history, which is precisely what Kuvacash is doing; we are powered in full by the Dash network, everything from the DAO funding to using Instantsend for cash transactions.

Engaging in stereotypical conversation about corruption and poor leadership structure in Africa is not how you make a difference.

2 points,10 days ago
@DeepBlue -- Getting government approval and working within the regulatory environment is a completely different thing than a government-run project. You know this, but you're purposefully being obtuse because of this ridiculous crusade you're trying to wage. What KuvaCash has done and is doing is no different than what DashCore has done and is doing in setting up the trusts and corporations and patents. Stop trying to smear this as government collusion.

Grass roots is effective in some situations, but won't always be in every one. Dash and cryptocurrency as a whole is still in a stage of infancy, so it's important to try many different methods. The Venezuelan grass roots projects are great, and I'm looking forward to seeing where they do long term, but so far they haven't yet translated in to mass adoption or massively increased transactions or any of the other metrics that are associated with widespread use. So for now, working with different kinds of projects in different kinds of circumstances--especially professional, sophisticated, and targeted ones like KuvaCash is--is essential to sorting out exactly what pathways are best for achieving our goals. You're all about grass roots, fine, but this is definitely a viable path too and I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.
-2 points,10 days ago
@Arthyron The word "ridiculous" is not appropriate. The words "obtuse" is not appropriate. It is now clear that Arthyron = fanatic supporter of KuvaCash. Just bear this in mind MNO's when you reading their feedback. I'm not going to lower myself to their standards and retaliate to these attacks on character.
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue -- Very apt, very appropriate, in fact. I'm not a fanatic of KuvaCash, I'm a hater of trolls. If you behaved this way in any other thread I would (and have when others have behaved such, see my presence on the forum) do the same, even if I didn't support the proposal. All you've got is bad rhetoric at this point. Every one of your objections has been addressed, whether or not you found the answers satisfactory, but your attempts to torpedo this proposal are repulsive and beneath the network.
1 point,10 days ago
Please note the actual content of DeepBlue’s reply above. He is floundering and has resorted to grasping at straws.

DeepBlue is upset that people have started calling him out on his nonsense.

DeepBlue. The only one lowering themselves is you. You are digging yourself into a hole that you alone will have to climb out of once all is said and done.

Arthyron has been clear and articulate in his response to your concerns above.
6 points,13 days ago
I think I will vote for anything that develops the actual ecosystem or the coin rather than endless wasted advertising campaigns.
1 point,12 days ago
Agreed.... And while we can’t claw back any of these wasted ad dollars, we can make sure to tip future funding in the favour of actual projects with experienced, dedicated and professional teams, like Kuvacash.

I encourage everyone to read the full project description and updates, and understand how the project is structured for the benefit of Dash.

It is the most extensive and well thought out project we have running, and even has the support of Dash Core CEO, Ryan (Babygiraffe), who has also stated that he’d rather fund one Kuvacash projects than ten more YouTube channels.

See below:

"babygiraffe - Personally, I think that the proposal is one of the most thoroughly researched projects I’ve ever seen on Zimbabwe. I frequently reference Zim as the perfect place to start in Africa, but it is a hard nut to crack. I think they really have a strong grasp of the problem and a value prop that resonates with the locals. That said, there is no guarantee it will work. But I would rather take one decent shot at Zimbabwe than fund 10 more YouTube channels. That has a real shot at adoption if you know 50% of the pain that is happening in the country due to a broken currency.

People there care about clean cash, and if they deliver the ability to get clean cash at any time, people will feel more comfortable leaving it in Dash. The competition is charging outrageous fees for digital payments. I certainly don’t know of another team preparing to take a shot at Zimbabwe, let alone one with a better plan than they’ve created. They’ve been working on it for about 5 months.

He didn’t share his research because he considers the findings and insights gold. I got a preview of them (videos and interviews with regular people on the street) and it really could gain traction there the way they plan to execute it. That all said, this is an extremely risky undertaking. Chances are decent it could fail. But if that team is successful, we can take that general blueprint and repeat it in other chaotic markets (with modification to the exact situation of course).

So it is potentially world changing. I don’t think you can put a price on that."

If your objections to this project is purely financial, know that - Dash can afford this!

We have a $3 billion market cap, let’s actually be smart with our spending and back projects that accelerate our expansion and maybe it will be back over $8 billion soon enough.

Kuvacash launches their pilot in 10-12 weeks. Let’s help them keep the momentum up guys!
-2 points,12 days ago
The more I read the proposal, the more dissonances and more than contentious points I see.
Kurvacash is not a part of Dash, but a private company with its own interests that uses Dash and its budget.
Because of its system of VCO/Note/Utility Note which gives at first glance the impression to transmit the control to the MN (which in fact is only to a part of the MN in more very small because the mechanism is based on MN which existed and which voted) This rule is minor and completely in inequation with the notion of inheritance of the global network of MN. This network is changing and evolving.
In addition, none of the known or controlled emission of these Note coin is known or under the control of the DAO. They are either in the minority from the start, or can easily become so in time with a broadcast over time.
Because this issuing mechanism is unknown and free, it introduces a notion of corruption. Give more Note Coin to MNs who voted yes, or to those who have many MNs in order to get more positive votes. There is no proof of that, there is no mechanism to see it if there is a drift or to prevent it.
Note Coin appear in this case as an incentive for positive votes, because without support from MN for the budget, no note Coin, no free money.

I feel under cover of a project that will help to promote the use of Dash in a whole country, which to date remains a promise (see the rest of the African continent) that we are simply funding another crypto, which will have any means after having been funded and given the impression that it is being controlled, to get rid of Dash and see it supplanted in Africa at least to Zim.

Although this project may be interesting for Dash in appearance, I see more problems there than initially. Moreover the notion of Note Coin was introduced after the 1st vote. and it remains very obscure.
For my part it remains a NO to this proposal, I ask that all its points are not only resolved, but that it goes through the core escrow service with contractual commitments. Then I might reconsider my position on a new proposal. In Kurvacash to show good will and contractualize good intentions.
2 points,11 days ago
Hi Jol,
With all due respect, I cannot understand what you are saying. If you have an issue with the VCO, it is still being worked on, with regards to all allocations etc. Note that we did not announce the VCO until after we had votes to pass for the third month of the 2017 Kuvacash proposal, specifically to ensure that it was not construed as anything that would positively affect the vote. It was done to increase engagement - Yes, No and Abstain votes can all claim utility notes. Think of it as a solution we innovated to share something tangible back to the Dash MNO community.

This is not your typical company - the founders do not own shares in it (although for the time being we have some project companies under which we are running development). Founders and executive and other critical stakeholders are only given utility notes, not shares.

With respect to issues with the Kuvacash proposal, you have not raised anything other than vague insinuations of problems to which we cannot respond because we need the actual points that concern you, to be highlighted and intelligently described.

Many points have indeed been raised by others and have been addressed in full by myself and other community members below, so please may I ask that you read all of the below commentary on this proposal, also see our latest update 005 to the network (link in proposal text) and if something else concerns you I will be more than happy to reply and and address it here for you.

Kind regards,
-3 points,11 days ago
With "all due respect"
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue, Language is conventional, but it's clear that Drako was not using that sarcastically, and now you're just poisoning the well out of bitterness. I expected more from you than this petty, puerile behavior. I don't know if someone else got a hold of your account or if you finally just snapped or something, but your behavior in this thread is unacceptable. It's one thing to disagree for cogent reasons, I and respect other MNOs who do, but not this nonsense. If you want a war, you got it.
0 points,10 days ago
You have read the reference? And you question it? OK. I guess you create your own reality and you're entitled to your own opinion.
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue - People still frequently use that phrase in a non-sarcastic way. It's clear from the rest of Drako's response that he was *not* being sarcastic, but trying to insinuate he was sets the tone for the rest of his response. You're trying to warp the things he's saying now just to further your own goals.
0 points,10 days ago

Arthyon is not questioning your reference, he is questioning your motives, and rightly so in this case.
-1 point,10 days ago
Peace Arthyron. Peace. Don't get so fanatical.
1 point,10 days ago
The only thing I'm fanatical about is the eradication of trolls, blowhards, and paltry rhetoric tossed around as erudite reasoning. Here's a psychological lesson to add to your linguistic one:
0 points,10 days ago
DeepBlue, If your sole aim is to troll, or waste Drako’s time and disrupt the Kuvacash project (getting Dash landed in Zimbabwe), then you will find yourself stepped over on the way to our shared goal.

There are plenty more hurdles for the project than ‘DeepBlue and his ego’.
-2 points,11 days ago
I agree with JoL giving incentives for votes LOL? What is that about? The question arises why are incentives given only to voters and not all MNOs? Sounds a bit like incentivising votes.

In my linguistic studies I leaned something most interesting. Anyone that says "With all due respect" is actually intending to say the exact opposite.

2 points,11 days ago
Hi DeepBlue

Good to see you are still here spreading nonsense.

The point of the VCO, (in case your enormous IBM computer-chess brain missed it), was to incentivise participation and engagement in the vote, it didn’t matter if a MNO voted Yes, No or Abstain, they all received Utility Notes, so long as they voted.

Of course, MNOs who didn’t bother to engage and place a vote missed out, because it is a VCO (“VOTE” controlled offering).

JoL has a language barrier affecting his understanding. It seems you have your own barrier, which seems to be your massive EGO which is working against you here.

I guess anyone who goes out of their way to call themselves DeepBlue (the ‘super smart’ IBM chess computer that beat Kasparov), and tries to build an online persona around being “DeepBlue”, must think pretty highly of their own intelligence.

Here is another fun fact from the Wiki research, it’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect, and I encourage you to look into it, “DeepBlue”.

“The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence.”

I understand that you are very attached to this DeepBlue persona that you are trying to build here for yourself, and you get worried about your EGO when actual intelligent people get fed up and bruise it (after coherently answering all your questions). But please stop wasting Drako’s ... time with your endless repetitive nonsense.

Right now, the level of intelligence from your posts resembles trolling for the sake of trolling.

So if you need the one big “take-away” from today clearly explained...
Next time you are cleverly crafting an online persona, consider what image you are giving off by trying to tie ‘intelligence’ into your username.

Truly intelligent people usually don’t run around telling everyone how clever or intelligent they are. This is the Dunning-Kruger effect. Go read about it. Say it to yourself a few times until it sinks in. Then go check out Drako’s LinkedIn profile and learn about the guy you are talking to. Re-read the Kuvacash proposal. Watch the April update. Reevaluate your position.

You’re welcome.
1 point,10 days ago
"Incentives for Votes," rather it was an attempt to broach the subject often discussed by MNOs in other MNO channels--which you would know if you ever participated in anything outside of DashCentral--of in the future, as the DAO grows and our legal and economic standing as an entity solidifies, how we might go about doing more than *funding* but rather actually *investing* in the projects we fund, the DAO holding equity, shares, etc. It's something we've discussed at length on the forum, on Discord, and elsewhere. This is one possible solution to that, and it's the same "stake" in the project that the actual proposal-owners have. They wanted to give back to the DAO instead of just taking funds and going on their merry way like so many projects do.

Now, as has already been discussed on many occasions, some people have pragmatic or ethical issues with this particular solution to that problem of DAO ownership, which is fine and ought to be discussed. However, this is also a voluntary distribution as well. You don't *have* to receive these tokens if you have some objection to it, but that was their attempt to offer additional value to the network, and doing so on the basis of anyone who voted on the proposal seems like a pretty fair way of implementing this particular kind of schema.
-2 points,10 days ago
Did you get any "rewards" Arthyron? Just asking.
3 points,10 days ago
@DeepBlue - I have received no compensation for any of the work I do as a MNO or member of this community outside of my payments as a Masternode Owner. It's clear what your insinuations are, though. That, by the way, is a "argumentum ad hominem," since you didn't know what you were talking about.
1 point,10 days ago
All MNOs who voted, be it Yes, No or Abstain will receive Utility Notes.

Anyone too lazy to engage with the Dash DGBB and voting process will miss out on “rewards”, and this is a good thing.

The point was to increase engagement as currently only ~25% of MNOs bother voting.

MNOs need to front up and engage. Dash is a DAO after all.
-2 points,11 days ago
Hi Jol, I remember you had explained that you rely a lot on google translate between English and French, so I hope we can have some kind of workable dialog here. If there is any wording you don’t understand, please feel free to ask.

It seems to me that the details of the what the Utility Note is, and how it will be used by the Kuvacash project, have caused you some confusion.

The aim of Kuvacash is to land Dash in Zimbabwe. Drako has clearly stated this. Even in comments below he stated his willingness to sign a exclusivity agreement.

You told me (in discord) you didn’t believe he would sign such and agreement, and I told you to bring him the agreement, but instead of bringing the agreement, you simply post a big conspiratorial post on this proposal.

To get you out of this thinking (and make you comfortable with the project ), I want you to think of some simple facts.

If Drako’s intention was to launch Kuvacash as its own coin, surely the quickest and easiest way, would be to launch Kuvacash with its own ICO.

Please consider, a team of professionals like Drako has assembled could EASILY raise $10,000,000+ in an ICO.

They have been fully transparent with the MNOs. What they are asking from the network ($180k per month for 4 months), are just costs.

None of them own equity in Kuvacash.

And the reason WHY? Because these guys are all massive dash holders and believers. What they are building here is for the betterment of Dash.

Drako was the guy who (after seeing what Ogilvy presented to core), brought in Tharp & Clark to fix our logo, (and even managed to convince them to work without pay).
He is STRONGLY aligned with the best interests of the Dash network and MNOs.

Core has weighed in on previous Kuvacash proposals, stating that escrow was not required for the Kuvacash project.
In fact, they have just posted that the recent escrow deal with Feedbands actually caused them massive losses, and are questioning if they should be risking funds being an escrow provider at all.

Drako engages with the community. He had even replied to your initial message in the comments below which asked you to clarify what you had an issue with, but you merely ignored his request for information.

I hope you will think about these points and reconsider your decision.
-1 point,13 days ago
MNO I encourage you to read all the exchanges between myself and Drako the lead project. You will need to scroll right down the page to read all the comments. Drako started responding in a constructive manner to my doubts on this project which was encouraging but then when I raised further concerns he made a false claim on my character by stating I have been "dishonest", disingenuous and spreading "false information". This is not a professional way to respond to legitimate concerns on a project.

One of my highest principals is honesty and integrity. I find this personal attack inappropriate. If there was an error in what a MNO stated then proposal owners should correct the error. A proposal owner should not attack a MNO's character. Our role as MNO owners is to question and challenge a proposal. If the proposal owner is intelligent they will use these comments as an opportunity to strengthen their proposal.

I am aware there could be strong reactions from pro Kuvacash members to my comment here in which case you will see who I'm referring to below this message as they respond. Just bear in mind that these people have an agenda.

MNO owners we are charged with a responsibility to challenge proposals and not have proposal owners make attacks and false statements about our character.

The funding that KuvaCash has already received is $650,000 USD in the first round funding. At the time of writing today's price for DASH is $375 USD and they are asking for another 4 x 622 DASH = 2488 DASH more which gives a total of $933,000 USD

KuvaCash is building their brand with our money. Unlike the DASH Venezuela projects that put our brand up first and foremost we benefit from significant brand exposure. However with the KuvaCash project they are building their own brand which means they control the network of contacts they build. If we sponsor this project again then we are funding a centralized organization to promote our decentralized currency.

They have received enough funding from us. They should now be fully delivering a final completed service. No more funding should go to this project. We have many more valuable projects that are building the DASH brand first and foremost in their businesses these other projects and are more decentralized than this project and deliver more value than this project to the DASH brand.
0 points,13 days ago
Hi DeepBlue,
Please read Arthyron's post below, to you. At the time of posting the proposal, Dash was just under 290USD, I have also indicated exactly how we manage our strategy with regards to its volatility. You are being disingenuous now implying we are going for a higher amount-the price of Dash fluctuates and this is nothing new. In addition to your misunderstanding about our 'centralised' wallet (it isn't, as I pointed out people can migrate funds using Dash addresses and top up with other Dash wallets and even if Kuvacash disappears, funds are held by those users in Dash and can still be spent) and the 'millions' we are (not actually), asking for - please re-read this; we asked initially for 550k and now asking for another 180k/month for 4 months). We have appropriately managed the volatility of Dash in both directions, and given transparent financials to the network.

In addition to this, I have reached out personally multiple times to speak with you, responded in a lot of detail to what your concerns were here, but all you have continued to do is disparage the project.

I have never personally attacked you, regardless of whether you feel that way. I have of course pointed out that if you spread misinformation, which you did, and are still doing, you will appear dishonest and lose credibility with MNO's, myself included.

If any of what I have said is not correct, and I also encourage MNO's to read your exchanges and the detail to which I have responded to every single point you had raised below and decide for themselves whether your concern is really for the project, or that you have an axe to grind. Either way I really am open to dialogue with you to understand your concerns, we all want Dash usage to grow and our project can enable this in a very powerful way.

-1 point,12 days ago
MNO please note again the attack on my person in Drako's comments above by stating I'm being "disingenuous". This is not an appropriate comment and this behaviour from a project owner is not acceptable.

Let us not forget DRAKO is asking for our funds. MNO owners should not be attacked in this manner for undertaking our role to ensure our funds are best used. An attack on a MNO character should not be tolerated under any circumstances. No MNO should be subjected to personal attacks for raising legitimate points and objection to a project. If the project owner has the right intentions they would counter the arguments raised by a MNO and not attack an MNO's character as Drako is doing here.

No MNO should have to put up with an attack on their character for raising valid points on a proposal.

This project has had sufficient funding from us already. We can use $933,000 funds elsewhere on more valuable and worthwhile projects that will lead to a greater return on investment for the DASH network. This project has already received enough funding from us $650,000 is enough and if they can't make it work with that they can't make it work with anything.

Vote no.
1 point,12 days ago
Hi Deepblue,

I think Drako has shown you a lot of patience and you are being disingenuous. He has responded to all your comments and you simply continue to spam the proposal over and over with your nonsense. You are just wasting his and everyone’s time.

It seems obvious to me you have a personal problem or agenda, and I hope the masternodes will see through your attempt to disrupt one of the most well planned and executed projects that has been brought forward to the Dash DAO. Landing Dash in Zimbabwe!

The project asked for $180k per month, this is clearly written. Drako has responded re: Kuva plans if the price fluctuates. Dash CAN afford this, it is not a large sum of money for the results which are clearly been seen if you bothered actually paying attention and following the project as it has progressed.

It is painfully obvious to me that you have zero startup experience and no idea what kind of effort it takes to manage a large-scale project, as well as the costs. The Kuvateam have been fully transparent, all you need to do is watch or read their regular updates to keep on top of it.

As your answer to land Dash in Zimbabwe is along the lines of “let’s fund more dash giveaway and pizza and biscuit meet ups”, then your intelligence is called into question. You can’t show me a clear link between any of our grass roots funded African project and some actual usage of dash, even Tungfa weighed in below saying traffic to the dash website from Africa was non existent.

Feel free to rant and rave. I am here to respond to all your nonsense, as are others.

My advice is to back the the guys with the Talent, and let them get things done. These guys are putting themselves out there for the dash community. Look how the entire project is structured. None of them own any equity in Kuvacash.

Had they not been Dash holders and supporters with a vision for Dash, they could have easily run an ICO for Kuvacash and raised $10s of millions.

These guys are professionals with a ton of experience under their belts, just look through their LinkedIn profiles, especially Drako.

Drako is spelling out answers to your questions and concerns for you and you are refusing to acknowledge them.

Even at today’s rate of ~$200k per month, they are bringing crazy value to Dash. We can’t pretend to blame them for fluctuations or claim they are asking for more simply because the price moved upwards.

*Dash can afford this*

Voting YES!
1 point,12 days ago
I'm with Triptolemoose. DeepBlue, sad to say, but you're letting your ego get in the way of good business here. I can easily see how some of your comments could have been interpreted as disingenuous (I believe they rather stemmed from ignorance moreso) or misinformative. Like I said, I usually agree with you, but your vision here is clouded.

Please see my other comment to you below for specific reasons to reconsider this proposal. I know you're a reasonable person and have demonstrated a capacity to change your mind when presented with sufficient evidence and reasoned argumentation. I hope that this is one of those occasions.
-2 points,12 days ago
I am not letting my ego get involved. I am protecting my character and my name. I have stated facts and points of view only in this proposal however Drago has called into question my character. I absolutely will not accept that type of behviour and no MNO should either.

Nobody has the right to add their own value judgement and say I'm being "dishonest", or "disingenuous" those are value judgements on my character which are false and in fact have nothing to do with the debate.

No MNO should have their character called into question repeatedly simply giving points of view and stating facts that don't agree with the proposal owner and their supporters. If someone disagrees then disagree with the facts but nobody has the right to call into doubt the character of a MNO or in fact any person contributing to a debate. That is unacceptable behaviour.

Vote NO because this project has already received $650,000 USD and we have much better use of the funds they are asking on many more worthwhile projects.

Vote NO also because no MNO should have their character challenged when presenting valid arguments and sharing their own points of view that does not agree with a proposal owner.
2 points,12 days ago
Look, you said some things that were off-base, misinformed, and continued to insist that these were the case. When Drako clarified or corrected these, you continued reinforcing that narrative. Drako doesn't know you, but he knows that you're not accurately describing the situation despite his attempts to explain, so can you not see from a proposal owner's perspective how that seems like disingenuous or disinformational behavior? It's functionally identical from his perspective.

You may be absolutely convinced that your perspective is accurate and justified, but from his perspective, it seems like you're just intentionally misrepresenting the situation. Meanwhile, several other MNOs have urged you to take a deeper look and reconsider and educate yourself about the full extent and history of this proposal and where they've come from and where they're going and why and not just look at the dollar/dash amounts only.

KuvaCash is not just its own project, but is coordinating with several other proposals and Dash Core as well. It's creating something Dash desperately needs. Do they stand to profit from it? Undoubtedly, but so do we. That's sort of what we're doing here. We're voting to propagate services and projects that will enhance and enrich the Dash ecosystem and this will do that in spades.

Having fiat on/off ramps accessible by normal, everyday people through real agents that they can talk to and meet in person, being able to send payments over the phone even to people who don't have crypto wallets initially, etc, these are all immensely important functions and circumstances that the crypto world as a whole has been lacking.

Grassroots projects are great for spreading awareness, but they can't create projects on this scale or level. That takes a dedicated team working in concert with the local, targeted regulatory and economic environment.

KuvaCash is uniquely poised to serve the People and circumstances in Zimbabwe, to open up a virtually untapped market in a way that--perhaps more than almost any other project--will be likely to result in direct use and adoption of Dash as a currency and payment platform.

Call it your "ego" or your "character and name," I don't care. It doesn't matter. Get over yourself. Educate yourself.

Seriously, whatever misunderstandings and bad blood you might have with the proposal owner, you are on the wrong side of this proposal for the sake of Dash.
-2 points,11 days ago
Arthyron, I have no past bad blood with Drako. Ad hominem attacks however are unacceptable. It is not acceptable behaviour on so many levels. Drako needs to drop Ad Hominem attacks. PERIOD. I am not going to get over it because it is not something that should be "gotten over" No person should have their character attacked. If you think it is OK to attack a person's character to win an argument then what can I say. That is your opinion. However if we are to get to the truth we MUST only attack the arguments. Attack the arguments not the person. Drako has not done that sufficiently.

I also do NOT agree the only way to establish a crypt currency in a country is to co-operate with regulators in places like Africa and Venezuela. They have failed these countries over and over and over. I could speak about this single topic for quite some time. What we need to realise is that we, the people, are now in control of our own money for the first time in history and the regulators and governments need to change to accommodate to OUR requirements.

Governments and regulators are supposed to be working for US not the other way around. They have messed up for so long in these countries and caused so much misery to the people. We should not be negotiating with them. THEY need to be adapting to US.

I welcome my arguments being attacked. Go ahead and attack away. I love this type of feedback because it strengthen the argument of it helps someone see a different approach. All of that is completely destroyed however when someone attacks someone's character. That is completely unacceptable because it takes away from the process of challenging an argument.

I accept 100% I may be wrong. I accept that publicly and I'm stating that publicly. But show me I am wrong in well reasoned arguments. Do not try to attack my character to win an argument.
0 points,10 days ago
@DeepBlue -- Calling you disingenuous when you are being disingenuous--and let's be clear, that's what you are doing with your rhetoric--is not an "Ad-Hominem Attack." The logical fallacy "argumentum ad hominem" is attacking a person *in lieu* of addressing their points as though you have addressed their points. You can insult someone *and* address their points as well, and that is not "argumentum ad hominem." Drako hasn't even done *that,* but has rightly identified your hostility and bias in how you are framing the debate, which is, in fact, disingenuous.

You've demonstrated only that you lack sufficient understanding of what this project is, its history with the network, and what it's trying to accomplish. You clearly haven't watched any of the update videos or interviews, you're just basing it all of what you've read from the proposals. You're not playing with a full deck, you're arguing from ignorance.

As it has been belabored to you over and over, getting regulatory approval and working within regulatory environments is not the same thing as letting the government run your project. Stop misrepresenting their efforts. If you had watched the recent updates from KuvaCash and others, you'd know that Mugabe has stepped down and that there is a new regime in charge and their economy is starting to turn around. There has never been a more prime opportunity to be involved in Zimbabwe.

I really don't care about your minarchist political ideology. If Dash gains sufficient traction, eventually it won't matter what the regulators say/do, but we have to get to that point for it to matter or we will make no inroads in to this region. This is a prime opportunity that you are pissing away and dishonestly and disreputably encouraging others to do the same for the sake of your vaunted principles. Shame on you.
-2 points,11 days ago
MNO's Arthyron and Triptolemoose are obviously very pro KuvaCash just bear that in mind when you read their feedback. It is so biased is rather laughable. They are backing up every time what Drako says irrespective of intelligent arguments. Even though I have suffered attacks on my character I have not once retaliated. I won't lower myself to that level. What I will do is call them out on it every time. Attacks on a MNO for doing his job and attacking their Character is unacceptable under any circumstance. PERIOD.
1 point,10 days ago
MNOs, I want you to imagine it’s 2014, a guy is sitting in front of his computer, he is coming up with an online persona for himself to use on the DashCentral forum.

He thinks quite highly of his own intelligence, and wishes others would also.

Being obsessed about his own intelligence, he probably found himself in a few chess clubs over the years.

He knows that IBM built a chess program that was soo smart it won a match against reigning world champion Garry Kasparov.

‘DeepBlue’, he thinks to himself. That’s perfect! That will tell everyone how smart I am whenever I post.

Things are going well for DeepBlue. His comments are usually pretty good, people like his ideas .... that is.. until Drako and the Kuvacash project comes along.

He’s not used to people knocking back his opinions, after all, he is DeepBlue, the super smart chess computer, and his opinions should be read like gospel. “All hail DeepBlue”.

First it’s a few knocks to his EGO here and there, disagreements on some ‘bad feelings’ DeepBlue has about Kuvacash that he feels weren’t adequately addressed. He’s mumbling something about centralisation and starting to get worried. In the meantime the Dash network is seemingly voting for Drako’s project, which he feels makes it a vote against himself. “I can’t be wrong”, he thinks to himself. “I’m never wrong”. If it turns out that I am wrong about something on the internet, then I shudder to think what that might do irreparable damage to by character (immediately taking it personally).

Then comes the Tharp & Clark logo proposal where DeepBlue posts that he can only read ‘ash’, rather than Dash. But this time it’s Triptolemoose who comes forward with an opposing viewpoint explaining that Deep has simply been staring at the words too long. DeepBlue doubles-down, but again the community votes against his opinion.

Then comes another Kuvacash funding proposal. Sure enough, DeepBlue is here and begins on his campaign ... posting a bunch of ideas, such as ‘should only fund Grass roots’, ‘Kuvacash is centralised’ among other stuff. All his posts are replied to with clear answers.
DeepBlue has quickly run out of ideas, so reverts to mindlessly reposting the same comments (previously replied to), again, again and again.

After a while it becomes clear where his problem actually lies. It is with his bruised ego. Drako (and others), have bruised his ego!

He takes charge moving forward with a campaign to protect his bruised ego.

‘Proposal owners should not be allowed to bruise egos’, he shouts from the mountain top.

Well I say SUCK IT UP DeepBlue. You are been disruptive, disingenuous, and spreading misinformation for the sake of your own Ego.

Pivoting your campaign to a personal one isn’t going to help Dash get into Africa. We can already see grass roots have not been effective. The Dash DAO has funded many African meet ups and teams... Tungfa (Dash core) verified (below) that there is no traffic from Africa showing up at his end. (You’d already know this if you bothered reading my previous replies to you).

What we are seeing here with DeepBlue is a solid Dunning-Kruger Effect combined with bruised ego.

DeepBlue, think about how tough you have to be to manage a ton of people, regulators, staff, run a business and roll out a massive project like Kuvacash.

Drako, has addressed your concerns and I believe his team has what it takes to land Dash in Zimbabwe and Africa.

TLDR: DeepBlue needs to bury the hatchet, lick his wounds and and realise we are all on the same team!
0 points,10 days ago
@DeepBlue - I'm not so much pro KuvaCash as I am anti-troll. KuvaCash is one of many, many hopeful projects Dash has funded and is currently nurturing to completion. I think it's a great opportunity, but it's not like I'm friends with the developers or some level of bias or collusion like you seem to be insinuating. Who is the one attacking characters and reputations now, hypocrite?

No, ultimately for me, KuvaCash is just another project, but one that I think serves a particular circumstance and does it very well and stands to greatly enhance Dash moving forward, and you and your inflated, hand-wringing ego stand in the way of what I believe is best for Dash, so I will make damned sure you gain no further traction with your attempts at project assassination.

You're just being passive-aggressive, gaslighting, ignorant and arrogant. That's the totality of your involvement with this proposal.
0 points,10 days ago
You, Drako and Triptolemoose are continuously attacking my character. I'm getting very tired of it. You have weak arguments and so you have to result to lower level tactics. I'm getting rather sick of it.
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue -- Whatever you say, Mr. Trump.
1 point,10 days ago
DeepBlue, your ‘arguments’ have been taken apart and your ego can’t handle it.

If you want to bang heads with Drako on his project then so be it,... but if you continue to spread nonsense after the first few replies, then you are simply being disruptive for your own personal reasons, and you deserve to be callled out on it personally.
2 points,12 days ago
All your comments have already received a reply and response, and yet you continue to spread nonsense.

You need to think up some new moves DeepBlue, but it seems you are stuck in a loop
-2 points,11 days ago
Triptolemoose = Drako super supporter. Way to go Triptolemoose! Associate yourself with someone that uses Ad hominem attacks bravo! Bravo! NOT!
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue - Again, don't know Drako, think KuvaCash is OK, but *disgusted* with your behavior.
0 points,10 days ago
Well the feeling is mutual.
1 point,10 days ago
I’m proud to stand beside Drako.

The guy is tough, smart, battle-hardened and dedicated to Dash.

Arthyron has tried to point out that your judgement is clouded in this case.

Regardless of your feelings, you should take a step back and engage with Drako directly via PM, hangout or phone, hear about his approach to Africa, and at the very least, settle your differences.

You can find Drako on Discord as ‘max yoga’.

He is always happy to talk, and who knows... he may even turn you around about the Kuvacash project.
-1 point,12 days ago
MNO owners I stated there would be the "pro" KuvaCash supporters posting comments again against my posting. Just note who they are and bear the fact their comments are biased.

No MNO should have to tolerate attack on their character for raising valid points. If there is a specific issue that you have issue with address the issues not the character of the MNO.

Vote NO not only because they have already had enough funding to make this work but we should also now be voting NO because no MNO should have their character attacked in this manner.
1 point,10 days ago
Dear MNOs

DeepBlue has had all of his points addressed by the team and others. He is simply nursing a bruised ego at this stage.

Kuvacash is one of the best projects we have running.

The team are fully transparent.

Please view their update videos and see how far the Kuvacash team have progressed.

This is a professional team (aligned with Dash Core) and the best chance of landing Dash in Zimbabwe, as well as across Africa.

None of the Kuvacash team hold any equity in the business. They are Dash holders and believers.

If you want to learn more about the Kuvacash team, please check out their LinkedIn profiles.

If you want to learn more about who DeepBlue is, good luck. The only info we have, is that he named himself after an IBM chess computer and wants people to thinks he is very intelligent. The more I interact with him, the more
I’m inclined to believe we are seeing a big ego and a smattering of Dunning-Kruger Effect here with DeepBlue as I have mentioned in a post above.

Please support Kuvacash and Vote YES for the project that has the best chance for bringing Dash to Africa.
0 points,10 days ago

One more comment.

The Kuvacash project is progressing at an accelerating rate.

You don’t hold back funding for your most successful projects when they are hitting all their milestones.

This is not about a game of fairness where weak teams that are struggling to give benefit to the network get to have more funds to spend.

You back your strongest horses.
2 points,14 days ago
Kuvacash is one of the best projects that Dash has ever seen. Landing Dash in Zimbabwe will be HUGE for Dash, and this is the team to do it. Pilot program running in 10-12 weeks! All milestones being hit, great visibility and reporting. Excellent community engagement. Vote is a definite YES!

Guys, if you’ve voted yes, be sure to upvote the Kuvacash proposal in the main list of budget proposals to increase its visibility, as some people have been abusing the spam controls to downvote Kuvacash in the list of proposals.
4 points,15 days ago

What would you do if further funding for Kuvacash falls away at any point in the future? Dead in the water? Also, I have the impression that there is a distinct separation between the services that Kuvacash offers, and Dash as the underlying. There is not even a mention of Dash on your website. Can Kuvacash support other cryptocurrencies? What are we really funding here?

2 points,15 days ago
Hi Ancestor,
Kuvacash is based on and powered by Dash. We are committed to delivering for the network, but we do require funding to do this properly, meet our commitments to partners/suppliers and maintain the momentum we presently have. We are not Dash Core, nor can we claim to be - so we have built a brand that is more closely aligned with the market to bring Dash to Africa.

There is deep Dash integration with the services we provide - Dash-Cash and Cash-Dash as well as international remittances, p2p Dash payments and merchant services. Please do take a look at our latest webinar update 005 - we demonstrate the live product itself and should give you a good idea what and why we are building Kuvacash.

Kuvacash doesn't support other cryptocurrencies for making payments, nor do we intend it to - it's exclusively Dash. We are helping Dash Core with explicit requirements for being able to use Dash in Zimbabwe. Our website is a holding page at present, we have a lot more content coming in around 6-8 weeks with the re-launch. Please see this and my other activity on Dash Nation etc - I am a Dash permabull, as is the whole of Kuvacash :)

You are funding a real initiative with an elite team, with demonstrated traction to land Dash as a mainstream cryptocurrency in Zimbabwe and then wider Africa, I hope we can count on your support!

1 point,15 days ago
Thanks for your reply. I find it strange to see the Dash brand pushed to the background, and I hope you will find a better balance somehow. But I do support your initiative. There is value in trying this practical top-down approach, on top of the grass roots approach that we are used to see elsewhere.

Dash can and needs to take risks like these, that's our strength. At least here we can see that we are dealing with a good team in place already.
0 points,15 days ago
Thanks Ancestor, we will not disappoint.
Our joint showcase with Dash Core in Dublin at MoneyConf is all about Kuvacash is co-branded as "Powered by Dash". Our new website will also make this clear, as the community has given us a lot of feedback in this regard.

We consider Dash the core foundation and platform for the product we are developing, a bit like 'Intel Inside', or VISA to make an example. This allows us to also manage a clear brand image going into the market in Zimbabwe and other countries in Africa.

1 point,14 days ago
One more question, you mention that Kuvacash is exclusively Dash. Is this a permanent commitment? I know that you’re a strong supporter of Dash, but business is business. And if I were in your shoes, I would protect mine as well. Would you be willing to sign an exclusivity contract for 5 years, for example? Just a suggestion. It would stop us from second guessing your business motives? Does it make sense?
1 point,14 days ago
Hi Ancestor,
Yes we would sign such a contract. Note that there are details and 'hidden stones' that would need to be worked out by our legal team. For example what happens if Dash forks? Which one would be valid? With what entity do we make the agreement? However in principle, absolutely. We are committed to making this work for Dash.

0 points,14 days ago
Dear kuvateam,
I initially supported this project.
I would not support that proposal.
I think that many arguments have already been given and for many its valid (and saying they are not valid will not change anything), more others not expressed yet.
Mainly for my part you didn't deliver.
I could review my position on a "new proposal" if you go through the pre-proposal stage and using an escrow service (the coreteam one is free) and with many others changes and guarantees.

-1 point,14 days ago
Hi Jol,
Sorry but I don’t understand the specifics Of what you are saying..we have delivered on time, on budget and transparently. What changes and guarantees? I cannot provide feedback if you are not clear.

What exactly are you saying was not delivered? Please see our latest April live webinar update 005, link in the proposal text.

5 points,15 days ago
I really get the feeling these guys at Kuvacash believe that we will be funding their project in perpetuity. I thought the money we already gave them was to get this project operational and they would be self sustaining after that. As I see it we are paying 100% of the bill (including their salaries) and they get to keep all the profits once the business is built up and profitable. I want to see some tangible results before I vote "Yes" for further funding of this project. Once Kuvacash is up and running and people are actually using it I would consider one more round of funding to facilitate expansion but not until they have a working company. Look guys Dash has spent millions of dollars over the past 12 months to fund all kinds of projects and what do we have to show for it? The price has dropped over 75% and we are number 13 in market cap behind monero. I am tired of this!!! It is time for these proposals to deliver some real value. Its time for proposal owners to put up or shut up!!!
2 points,15 days ago
Hi DashRipRock,
Thanks for the comments. I want to provide some context and suggest a couple of ways you and other MNO’s can assess whether what Kuvacash is doing adds value to Dash and whether you should continue to fund this important next stage.

There are different types of projects that funds from DAO can support.
Some projects are ‘one-off’, for example, events, sponsorships, advertising campaigns and integrations and some will be more focused, requiring at least some ongoing funding until they can sustain themselves.
We are the latter; where the benefit of funding longer-term projects like Kuvacash is that once they have taken off, the investment has longevity, ongoing benefit and value generation well after the funding has been received.

Funding projects like Kuvacash brings in the sort of skilled businesspeople necessary to design and execute complex business models like ours. Please consider that we are initiating a new money system for a country, that necessitates a focused and measured approach that takes time to establish. At certain stages and milestones we will require additional funding; this is perfectly reasonable and acceptable while we are moving things in a direction that will add value to Dash. In the same way that a one-shot advertising campaign is of little value to developing a brand, and requires ongoing campaign investment to be effective, for Kuvacash to continue its traction and generate real value for Dash, we do need to be able sustain our activities. But we do not expect blind funding; we’re striving to set a standard that the DAO and Masternodes and the wider Dash community would expect, with respect to the the professionalism, traction and visibility/transparency of our project. We have been second to none in this regard. Look at our bio’s and our progress to date; our use of the funds which has been laid out across multiple live update webinars, podcasts, interviews.

After doing this, if you believe that we as a team are committed to deliver real value to Dash, which we feel has been demonstrated, then vote yes. And please do this for your own sake - after all if we land Dash in Zimbabwe as a mainstream currency, and we are well on our way to doing this, it will be a historic world first that Dash can lay claim to. Consider what having achieved this will do to the value of Dash and it’s position in the crypto markets. Then consider the impact on Dash when we roll out this model across Africa. We are the team to do it, and we are committed to getting this done right, no matter what.

5 points,15 days ago
You need to ask for smaller amounts until this company is up and running and starts processing payments. You need to show us something tangible before you ask us to give you almost a million dollars. Also Dash needs to be a central part of the branding since we are paying 100% of the bills. We are not just here to give money away. The mood of Masternodes is changing. Many of us are realizing that we are not getting much bang for the buck with most of these proposals especially the really expensive ones. Ask for a smaller amount and you might get funded.
2 points,15 days ago
Hi DashRipRock,
We have been asking for very modest amounts of funding given the work we have completed over the last 6 months and are continuing with. Projects like ours on DAO that have demonstrated they can assemble an elite team, and gain considerable traction are probably a good idea to keep funding, otherwise what are we here for? If you have seen our latest and pre-latest (004 and 005) live webinar updates, you will see that we have tangible results across product, partnerships and regulatory domains - please check it out;

In short, the TL;DR on our project:

1. Has considerable traction - it takes time to get a pile of sustainable transactions going, and a lot of work, we also have a complex product that we have demonstrated, which shows what we are doing with regards to services around Dash provisioning.
2. Demonstrates full and radical transparency - if you need to know where we are spending our funds, and actuals - reporting that is far and beyond almost every single project on DAO, we are setting the standard for this.
3. Has delivered across all project domains - product, regulatory, partnerships.

With regards to branding, we are aligned with Core in that Kuvacash is 'Powered by Dash' - we are built completely upon Dash infrastructure. I have posted other comments here relating to the Dash brand and how it fits in appropriately with Kuvacash (a-la VISA and 'Intel Inside' etc). Dash is the foundation of what we are doing, we're just bringing it to Africa in a way that makes sense, and we hope will set the standard for how it's done.

3 points,14 days ago
If this proposal is funded how long will it take till you go live and start processing transactions?
4 points,14 days ago
Hi DashRipRock,
There are two approaches we are taking; the summary is this - within 10-12 weeks we aim to have small volumes of transactions as a pilot test, but with actual consumers who will use it to buy Dash, and also store and cash out USD in Zimbabwe. This includes Dash and Dash-USD P2P payments between individuals and the necessary agent cash-out functions. This will allow us to pilot and resolve any issues in the process from a software and operational standpoint.
We are also in the process of designing and implementing integrations with our finance partners which will allow us to ‘fuel’ the ecosystem with inbound USD remittances (that convert to Dash). We are estimating this technical work to take 12-14 weeks, and we need to do it in parallel with the wallet work. From there, we will carefully market a pilot, and then intend to expand our marketing in Q3 2018.

3 points,14 days ago
Okay, changing vote to yes.
4 points,14 days ago
Thank you DashRipRock, much appreciated!
0 points,15 days ago
We have already given a large amount of money to this project and so far I don't see much for it. In addition DASH is about decentralization we are actually sponsoring a centralized organization "Kuvacash". This is not the way to establish a decentralized currency. It should be done by the people directly as it is being done in Venezuela.

In addition to this DASH is losing out one of the most valuable possible exposures of our brand. The whole marketing of this product is under the banner of "Kuvacash" and not DASH. Take a look at their website as an example. We need our name getting out. The Kuvacash slogan is "Brining DASH to Africa" however that is not accurate. They are bringing Kuvacash to Africa, and currently they are using DASH - but who knows what they will be using in the future.

I do not have a good feeling about this project something feels very wrong about it.

I like the way Venezuelan teams are brining DASH to Venezuela. They are putting the DASH brand up and foremost which is very important to get the DASH name out.

DASH is actually paying for a Centralized distribution of DASH. That does not make sense for DASH to do this. DASH brand needs to be used not Kuvacash as it is being done in Venezuela.

Also look at the Venezuala projects. They always request modest sums of money and they achieve a lot with that money. Kuvacash is asking for millions and all we are doing is paying to promote and build up the Kuvacash brand. Because Kuvacash is centralized it presents a real and present danger that they can swap at any time to any crypto currency or even just create a fork of DASH and have complete control. That is a danger. They may say otherwise however the fact remains that because it is centralized the risk is there.

DASH needs to be promoted from grass roots projects without a centralized control. We need our brand name out first and foremost. Dozens of smaller projects with smaller requests are safer for DASH.

If I had been had the time to appraise this project from the beginning I would have voices these concerns from the start. This project presents a series risk that our decentralized currency is going to be distributed via a centralized organization - is that what we are about? I don't think so.

Definite NO vote for me.
2 points,13 days ago
@DeepBlue - You know I usually agree with most of your assessments, but I think you're off-base with this one. Watch the most recent Kuvacash update (April Update) on Youtube, or TaoofSatoshi's interview on Cash Alternative TV. Look at what has happened in Zimbabwe lately. It's a market that could explode and would be tremendous for Dash, but we simply don't have the boots on the ground and infrastructure in Zimbabwe that we do in Venezuela. KuvaCash seems to have developed a very sleek, sophisticated system for getting Zimbabweans in to Dash and making it usable in the real world in a way that not even Coinbase has accomplished in North America. I mean it's always possible that Zimbabweans will reject it for whatever reason--that's always a risk with technology--but the situations, though economically dire, are somewhat different, and we simply don't have the resources human or economic present and invested and active in that area that we do elsewhere. This allows us to close that gap very quickly.

If their technology works the way they assert and have to a degree demonstrated in their updates, it gives Dash a unique and huge first-mover advantage in a region that only recently just has one Bitcoin ATM. Not to mention the agents that will help with the fiat on/off ramps are incentivized toward helping popularize and facilitate the use of Dash.

We should be for whatever technologies or processes that get Dash in to people's hands and create Dash ecosystems everywhere. Insisting on one particular model of pushing for adoption is just dogmatic, it's not good business. Why not see which model results in actual, widespread use? Not every approach will work in every context, let's see what this approach which is tailored for its target market can do. KuvaCash has done so much work with the people and government of Zimbabwe to make this happen, it's a huge undertaking and they're doing a bang-up job.

Seriously, you're a smart person and give thoughtful feedback, but I think you got off to the wrong foot on this one, and like a few others I've talked to in other channels, it mostly seems to be coming from a place of ignorance about what they're actually doing. It's huge and could make a world of difference for Dash and the people of Zimbabwe both.
-2 points,11 days ago
Hello Arthyron, thank you for your comments. I appreciate what you say. I have watched these updates and I have studies the proposal in depth. I would not make such comments without doing my background research. I see a very real danger with this project. I am not saying the current management of this project will do any harm. My concerns have not been addressed adequately and the questions I raise have not been addressed. I have realised some very important concepts from this project which I think is of tremendous value. I really appreciate feedback against my arguments. But only against my arguments. Not against my person. I have had attacks against my character. These Ad Hominem attacks reveal something to me about the owners of this project. I am totally open to listening to arguments against my arguments. I welcome and infact encourage people to argue against my arguments because I love and mean trully love other peoples points of view. It gives depth to my understanding and it also can modify my thinking. It can give me new insights and I absolutely love that. But what I cannot accept is when someone attacks someone else's character. This is not acceptable. Attack the arguments. Not the person. I have sustained several ad hominem attacks and this is the second lowest form of disagreement in debate according to Graham's Disagreement list This shows that the person making an Ad Hominem attack has not reasonable arguments against those raised and they have to lower the level to Ad Hominmen .
1 point,10 days ago
@DeepBlue -- Other than a few objections you've raised in this post above, you haven't actually brought up anything that is actually a meaningful issue. The bulk of your blathering on has been about trying to impose your principles and values on the network and this proposal and going on erroneously about questions of your motives being ad hominem attacks--which they are not. Dash would be better off without your involvement in this proposal.
1 point,15 days ago
Hi Deepblue,
I feel we have addressed most of the points you raise in our response to DashRipRock below, but I want to expand on some of the other points you raise. We now have considerable traction in Zimbabwe, please watch our latest update video, the 5th live webinar for April. We have published our financials and are one of the most transparent proposals and projects on the DAO. Our product development is on schedule. We are a clearly committed and focused project to land Dash in Zimbabwe and then across Africa. Let me ask; is there a conflict of interest with your own project that concerns you? If so, it would be better for us to discuss - as I have always said, we’re open to partnerships if appropriate, and we are all on the same mission.

To your other point, the grassroots approach is also a way to gain adoption for Dash, but we know that to actually bring Dash into the country, and in a legitimate way, there are a lot of stakeholders that have to be aligned and give their support. There are projects here that pay for Dash integration into systems that are multi-currency; not only do we have no intention of using anything other than Dash, but ALL our stakeholders are all Dash holders and our entire system is built around the Dash Copay wallet. We can’t use any currency that doesn’t support Instantsend, and indeed my team are assisting Dash Core in making Instantsend fit for purpose, with our product team setting direct requirements for this.

I respect how you feel about the project - I am however not sure how you feel negatively about it, given the ongoing update and progress we have so far. As I mentioned above, if you feel that this is a conflict with your own initiatives then I understand, but would suggest that there are better ways to address this other than disparaging our project and proposal.

We are also not asking for millions, not sure what you are implying. We are asking a modest amount each month (180k USD), for four months. We may return to the network, for additional funding, but we could be defunded at any time, so are making sure we keep the network informed of our exact progress through multiple methods. Our financial summary has been published - actual also.

Let me also give you further context; we have assembled and have been running an international elite team, doing 14-18h days for 6 months, on the ground in Zimbabwe, New York, Ukraine, Amsterdam, London, Hamburg, New Zealand while also ensuring our legal freedom to operate. We have numerous signed partnerships and a demonstrable Dash-powered product (demonstrated at our last webinar), in 6 months we have demonstrated enormous traction, we are on-time and as fully transparent as possible to the network.

We are a key strategic project for Dash Core, indeed we are going to Moneyconf in Dublin June 11-13 in a joint booth to showcase what the power of Dash can do. Is there something else you expected us to have completed?

Please take a deeper look at what we are doing and our progress to date and if you feel you can reconsider your vote, it would be much appreciated.

1 point,15 days ago
Hello Drako,
I do not have any projects with DASH that conflict with Kuvacash. I don't have any DASH project either now or in the past. I have no "conflict of interest" other than the fact that I do not believe we should be promoting a decentralized currency (DASH) through a centralized organization (Kuvacash). Promotion can be undertaken in a decentralized manner as it is being done in Venezuela. I mentioned the Venezuela projects only because I believe they are doing the promotion in the the right way. They are fitting in with what DASH is about - decentralization.

These are the reasons why I believe the Venezuela model is better for DASH than the KuvaCash model:

1. Venezuela projects all use our DASH branding upfront. e.d. DASH Caracas, DASH HELP ME, DASH Merchants etc.
In the early days the projects did not use DASH in their names but now they are with all new projects. This means there is no possibility for a centralized brand to pull the rug out from DASH because DASH's brand is foremost on all their projects.

All the Venezuela projects increase DASH brand awareness. This is not happening with KuvaCash. Your brand is being promoted which means you control (or future owners control ) the network established under the KuvaCash brand.

2. With the Venezuela model we get free advertising of the DASH brand with the projects themselves so we get double the return on investment. We get brand awareness and we get the results from the projects. With Kuvacash it is your brand that is promoted and which is increasing awareness to the masses. That is not what we want. We want DASH branding awareness. DASH brand is a decentralized brand. Which means that people associate the service with a decentralized entity - unlike KuvaCash.

3. Venezuela projects are decentralized. Lots of small teams are working both together and independently. This means that no one player controls DASH in Venezuela. Which means that nobody can take it down. With Kuvacash you could change the model or anyone else could in the future. The government could shut KuvaCash down because KuvaCash is centralised.

I hear what you are saying that you have no intention to use another crypto and that you are committed to DASH however we have to trust that you and everyone else in the future that runs KuvaCash will also do the same now and for ever. The idea of decentralization is that we do not need to trust. The decentralized nature of the network safeguards the network. This is not the case with KuvaCash which is centralized.

4. The Venezuela teams all request modest amounts of DASH and they achieve a lot with that money. You have requested previously $650,000 (I believe it was this amount but feel free to correct me if I am wrong) plus now you are requesting and additional $720,000 so if we add up those two amounts = over will million USD.
With modest amounts of money with lots of groups we have much less risk of something going wrong. When we have invested over a million with Kuvacash making a mistake is a big mistake.

5. Branding DASH Help Venezuela, DASH Caracass, DASH Maracay, DASH Merchants. The Venezuela projects put DASH Branding first and foremost in their projects. They are living to the spirit of decentralization. They are increasing our brand awareness with the projects they do. We do not have anywhere near the same Brand recognition or awareness KuvaCash projects. DASH is in the background.

I wish to again state for the record I have no vested interests as you suggested and I therefore have no reason to speak with you about working on alliances because I have no DASH projects of my own. I am a MNO that is it. My concerns is how the KuvaCash project is being executed in the 5 points above.

In summary the concerns are:

1. KuvaCash brand is being primarily promoted - not DASH's brand which means KuvaCash control the network being created under your brand not the DASH brand.

2. KuvaCash is a centralized organization which makes it vulnerable. It also makes DASH vulnerable as KuvaCash controls the distribution of DASH through your branded network

3. KuvaCash is requesting very large amounts of money. DASH is putting a lot of funds into just one project. This is a big risk for DASH compared to dozens of small independent projects with small funding.

4. KuvaCash has had already a large amount of funding from DASH. Let us see first what you can achieve in real terms with the large amount of funding we have already given you before we decide dishing out another $720,000 USD. If necessary scale down your projects.


use modest amounts of money and are achieving a lot with that money which we can see. Second there a dozens of small Venezuela projects which makes the promotional activity decentralized.
1 point,15 days ago
Hi DeepBlue,
Thanks for the response and clarification. I want to make it clear, again, responding to your points 1-5, that we are a different project methodology and strategy from what is being run in Venezuela. The approach in Venezuela is also valid imo, but I also see projects like ours working there too.
Kuvacash is a focused team, not a pure grassroots approach, although we will have a distributed network of agents that will provision cash-Dash and Dash-cash services.

I want to correct you again on another point relating to the Kuva wallet, and ask that you refrain from posting further misinformation about this without verifying validity. As mentioned before happy to field any questions you have to ensure we focus on facts.

Kuvacash is a Dash HD wallet, based on BIP32/39/44. Users can fund and extract funds from the Kuvacash wallet directly in Dash, and to any other Dash wallet. They can use their wallet words to recover their funds in any other wallet that supports this standard. We have services around this wallet that make it easy for people to purchase and cash in and out of Dash-fiat.

Let me ask you; what part of this service, described in some detail across many updates, is not useful, even critical for mainstream adoption? We have done considerable research on the ground to develop our proposition, and this is the reason it will be a success.

Your further points 1-4;

1. I have responded to this already, and don’t want to belabour the point; we are not Dash Core, we are Kuvacash and we are Powered by Dash. Just like Festy is Festy and Alt36 is Alt36. We are building an appropriate brand to bring Dash to Africa.
2. We are a new kind of digital business, where the founders, myself and James don’t own equity in the business at all. We are in the process of building a DAO-like structure and so although our strategy is centralised (like Dash Core) we aim to be a permanent foundation for the expansion of Dash in Africa that cannot easily be shut down. See also what we are doing with our VCO to provide incentives to Masternodes as well, these are the same exact incentives that me and James have so they can benefit from our specific activities. Feel free to show me another proposal doing this! We are cutting new ground here, you will see the VCO go live today with our whitelist registration for Masternodes.
3. We are not requesting huge amounts of funding. We had requested the equivalent of 565 Dash a month for 3 months originally (550k usd) which we held and liquidated a proportion of, the value of which was 685k usd. 6 months later, after considerable work and traction, we are now requesting 180k/month for 4 months. For the size of our team and the traction we have demonstrated, and to take advantage of the real opportunity in Zimbabwe, particularly after the change of government, this is not a lot of funding relative to the amount of work we are doing, it’s just what we need to keep things moving at the right pace.
4. I am wondering if you have been attending our regular updates. We have achieved a huge amount. Our traction, partnerships, product development are all either ahead of, or on schedule. We now require further funding, and this will let us really capitalise on the opportunities that we have generated. Let me ask you; if something gains successful traction you expect a scale down?? Taking advantage of the present traction for is key for Dash. If your philosophy is to scale down projects that have an elite team assembled and have demonstrated real traction, while remaining completely transparent in their activities simply because they ask for further funding run counter to how business actually works in the real world.

I do understand some of your concerns and feel that we have now addressed these multiple times, but I now feel you have a naïve understanding of Kuvacash and what is required to launch Dash in jurisdictions like Zimbabwe or Venezuela for that matter. For whatever reason, you also seem fired up specifically about Kuvacash in general. As I have offered before, please PM me as I am happy to get on the phone to discuss in depth to get your support.

Thank you,
5 points,16 days ago
whow , that is another 750k US$ over the next 4 month (IF the price stays at 300 USD - not sure how much was funded before , but this then must be way above a Mill $ !)
sorry , but i have to remind everybody that Venezuela got their movement without any huge pay - that is community driven and not top down pay !! something to consider !

zim does not show up on any counts so far (webpage hits or the likes ) compared to Venezuela which is #3 on webpage it’s since a while
0 points,16 days ago
Hi Tungfa,
Could I please ask that you reconsider - if you take a look at our latest update (our 5th update to the network via live Q&A webinar, it is in the proposal above), you can see that we have considerable traction with our partners, our product development schedule is on-time (including a full demonstration in the update) and on the ground in Zimbabwe. We have done all this in 6 months, with extremely hard work, over 20 people working on the project and have established a best-practice progress reporting schedule to keep everyone updated, provided public financials as well as give an opportunity for questions and answers with the entire executive team on a regular basis. The amount of funding that we are asking for, for a project of this size is not substantial.

Kuvacash has assembled an elite team to implement a very clear business model that takes a focussed approach to the very real opportunity in Zimbabwe, one that could clearly lead to mainstream adoption of Dash. We have staged our funding so as not to crowd out other proposals, and kept it very reasonable, given our aims.

We are also a key strategic project for Dash, in fact we will be attending MoneyConf on a joint booth with Dash Core in June to showcase.

We have actually met once and spoken in person Tungfa. Let me know if there is something in particular with the project that you were not comfortable with, and I'd be happy to address it here or by PM (Max Yoga on Dash Central).

0 points,16 days ago
There is no one seeking to do what Kuvecash is doing in Venezuela. We spend Millions on advertising with no concrete products. This is an opportunity to have a concrete product.
0 points,15 days ago
This is not our product. We are paying for Kuvacash to get established i.e. a centralized body controlling the distribution of DASH. This presents a big risk on so many levels. The whole idea of decentralized currency like DASH is it remains decentralized. That means no one organization should control its distribution. If that occurs there are many risks, such as changing from using DASH to another crypto, or the government shutting down Kuvacash.

We have already given huge sums to Kuvacash. It is time now for them to deliver - big time before we dish out more money.
0 points,15 days ago
Hi DeepBlue,
As mentioned in the response to your post above; we have received modest funding from the DAO for what we have achieved and we have delivered real traction with this, please do watch our update webinar video 005 where we demonstrate our partnerships, regulatory progress, product. We are a Dash wallet with access to essential services that make it useful to the public - I repeat, we are a BIP32/39/44 Dash HD Wallet, and we do NOT store customer Dash balances - these are stored on the user's device (unless being presently liquidated for cash).

The user can always send and receive Dash, to any other wallet. That is the whole point of using Dash - customer funds are always safe, and do not rely on Kuvacash running to be claimed. If the government shuts down Kuvacash, users can still get their Dash.

Please may I ask that you do check the facts before spreading false information. Happy also to jump on a call and discuss, just PM me (Max Yoga) on DN.

0 points,15 days ago
I have checked my facts. I am not spreading false information. I am not concerned about the wallets. I'm concerned about the NETWORK you are building under your brand, the amount of funding you are requesting which is $720,000 for this project and I believe $650,000 over the last project which makes it over 1 million USD in funding which you class as "modest". That is not "modest" that is significant. If those amounts are incorrect then feel free to correct my figures.

Feel free to point out what is "false" or "inaccurate" in the above statements. I have to admit I'm going from memory on the $650,000 on the first stage funding so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I would however appreciate it if you did not state I was spreading "False" information and for me check my facts. If something is incorrect - State it. But don't try and slur my name saying I'm speading false facts. I'm raising legitimate concerns about your project. Address the concerns Drako not attack the person.
0 points,15 days ago
Hi DeepBlue,
The figures you quote are not 'millions' as you have indicated above, please don't spread further misinformation. Nor is it a substantial amount of funding given the level of work and traction we've achieved. You have a deep misunderstanding of what we are building with regards to Kuvacash, and I've provided enough of a response - if you wish to continue to disparage the project that's up to you, but you are now being disingenuous.

You have been dishonest and I've had to correct you yet again regarding the Kuvacash wallet, so I am addressing the concerns I have relating to yourself spreading misinformation. I cannot see how this is an attack on your person. If you want to discuss in depth, happy to chat on DN, just PM me (Max Yoga).

-3 points,12 days ago
I have to highlight again to all MNOs note in the comment above that Drako states I am being "dishonest" - I will keep pointing this type of abuse out every time it happens. No MNO should have their character called into question by them raising valid arguments that go against a project owner. If there is a point of view that the proposal owner believes to be inaccurate then address the statement. Do not attack a MNO character. This is unacceptable behaviour and should not be tolerated by MNO owners.

Vote NO
-1 point,14 days ago
Drako, you have stated that I have been "dishonest" this I have known the truth but then deliberately lied - that is what the word dishonesty means. That is an attack on my character and an attempt to discredit me. If I have made any statement that is inaccurate state it and correct it. Do not attack my character in attempt to discredit me.

I also need to point something out to you because I think you have an unusual idea of how you should ask for our money.

MNO are the custodians of the DASH treasury. I am a MNO owner that means you are asking funds which I am partly responsible for along with the other MNOs to decide if projects should be awarded those funds. MNOs duty is to raise concerns and to challenge a proposal. Your role as an organization asking for our funds is to address the concerns and statements. However you do not have a right to make a value judgement on a MNO character by saying they are being dishonest and disingenuous or spreading false information all of which are an attack on character.

What you have a right to do is point out inaccuracies and correct them and to address the concerns without attacking a person's character.

Your funding previously $650,000 (previous) and now you are asking for a further $720,000 that means if you get it it will be = $1,370,000 USD That is accurate.

My reference to "millions" previously is because if you get this funding you would have received approx 1.3 Million USD are you saying you will never ask for any more funding after this funding cycle? If that is the case you are correct it is not accurate to state "millions" however if you were to ask for more funding again after this and it is in the same order of magnitude as this request and your first request then it will be "millions". My reference was to that. I have clarified this point now so do not keep bringing it up saying I'm dishonest.

I also need to correct you on another point. I have at no point talked about the co-pay wallet but you keep bringing that point saying I'm misleading people. I don't know what you are referring to I have at no point talked about the crypto wallets - show me where in any of my responses? You're talking nonsense.

I do not agree that KuvaCash is like Alt36 because Alt36 is an existing business. Your's was not. My understanding is KuvaCash got started from DASH funding that makes your business different from Alt36. Your business should have been called DASH Africa since we paid significantly for your business to get started. That was NOT the case with Alt36 who already had an existing brand in the market place. As far as I am aware (again correct me if I am wrong) Kuvacash was not doing business previous to our funding and if you were it was without customers like Alt36 have. Therefore it would have only been right to have your business under the DASH branding so that we benefit from the DASH brand getting out. Instead you used your own brand. I disagree with that.

Drako I was open and willing to hear intelligent arguments from you about the concerns I've raised but now I have to say I'm not. I think there are much better projects out there that our funds you are asking can be used on. These other projects present less risk for us since they are considerably smaller amounts of money and more distributed. I also have no further interest in opening dialogue with you based on the manner in which you have responded to my concerns and made it personal.

Therefore my vote remains no.
-1 point,14 days ago
Hi DeepBlue, I’m sorry to hear but you are now trying to excuse your dishonesty. I have responded to your concerns in full but you continue to disparage the project for reasons unknown. I hope you will reconsider given the detail and time I have taken to address all your questions, and the clear benefit to Dash our project has.

0 points,13 days ago
Your team is doing great work here Drako. Keep it up!

Thank you for your transparency, and great to see milestones being achieved. You guys (and gals) are leading by example.

$200k per month is peanuts in comparison for the value we are getting from the Kuvacash team.

* Dash can afford this! *
4 points,16 days ago
"Kuvacash was funded by the DGBB
Funding of 1,695 Dash was received via DGBB funding between September 2017-November 2017. This has allowed the Kuvacash founders James Saruchera and Andreiko (Drako) Kerdemelidis to bring together an elite international team from across the globe, to set up and implement the project."

I have not had time to keep up with this project, could you provide a TLDR of what has been accomplished so far with the previous funding.
The payout was around the height of the crypto bubble so how much did that 1,695 Dash come out to in dollars each month? Is there any breakdown of how it was spent?
-2 points,16 days ago
Hi Mastermined, thanks for your interest in the project. Here is the TL:DR but let me know if you do have any questions.

Funding; 1K of the Dash was liquidated for approx 685K USD across several exchanges to pay suppliers and exec who required USD, and we have paid everyone else from this balance or from (what we prefer) the remaining Dash.

We have had considerable momentum in Zimbabwe, and scaled up our operations when Dash was high in price (partner development, regulatory engagement, legals, product development, design). The latest financial summary (actuals and projected) are in our 5th Live Webinar Q&A 44:42 minutes in:

For this funding we have completed our regulatory MVP product - there is a live demo of this we did on the same webinar, although my apologies for the visuals - we moved rooms last minute but this is an actual demo of the full stack (albeit on testnet). It starts at 16:52 on the above video.

We have also the regulatory coverage and agreements in place to operate in Zimbabwe, and have established all the partnerships we need at this stage to operate legally. We are continuing to pursue our own ADLA license (no blockers there), but wanted to move faster so we have signed agreements with two local financial institutions to give us local branch coverage and international remittance coverage for Kuvacash.

Hope this answers your questions, we aim to be as transparent as we can on this.

1 point,16 days ago
Kuvacash is one of the most important projects we are funding. Happy to vote Yes
3 points,16 days ago
Thanks for the support name3, very much appreciated!

1 point,16 days ago
Let's say the Dash price goes x2 or x3 next month and stays stable there, what will you guys do?
2 points,16 days ago
Hi Quantumexplorer,
Very good question and certainly one that applies to every multi-month proposal on Dash DAO. The volatility of Dash is something we have built into our overall strategy, since that is the nature of obtaining funding for projects in Dash via the DAO.

For us, volatility counts in both directions; both increases and decreases in price. The cycle of volatility in November/December allowed us to accelerate development and de-risk many aspects of our project in a controlled way (bringing in an elite design team, expanding our dev team, putting more feet on the ground in Harare, a great legal team inside and outside Zimbabwe and in NYC). If the price dropped, we have the ability to vary the size of the teams to ensure we always have enough time and runway to deliver what we have committed to (to the network, and to our external partners and stakeholders). If the price goes up and stays there, depending on our traction and progress we'd either save funds so we would not have to return to the network in August/Sept for 003, we could also expand activities as appropriate, or a mix - this is a dynamic project, the volatility of Dash is just one component we have to actively manage. As an example, this is why we sold 1K Dash in Nov (as described in the response to Mastermined below), to ensure we had lock-down on at least a quantity of USD to meet our financial commitments to suppliers.