Proposal “KUVACASH-RESTRUCTURED-LAUNCH-PROPOSAL“ (Active)Back

Title:Kuvacash Restructured Launch Proposal
Owner:kuvateam
Monthly amount: 545 DASH (111456 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (3 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-08-17 / 2018-11-15 (added on 2018-08-13)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 755 Yes / 432 No / 17 Abstain
Will be funded: No. This proposal needs additional 162 Yes votes to become funded.
Manually vote on this proposal (DashCore - Tools - Debugconsole):
gobject vote-many 78646f863b78252da0a1ac6d7aaa3f71970cb7b249ce4ac4c267821f35ed4997 funding yes

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Proposal description

Kuvacash Pilot Launch Funding (restructured) (Base 003.a)

***ANNOUNCEMENT AND STATEMENT PENDING***
We ask that everyone be patient, as Team Kuva will be making an announcement in due course. The team has been working around the clock to assess an approach that we will be taking to ensure we get Kuvacash landed and aligning all our stakeholders to this. To our supporters - you won't be disappointed ;)


***ANNOUNCEMENT - KUVACASH UPDATED SOFTWARE DEMONSTRATION VIDEO***

We have updated a video demonstration of the full Kuvacash software suite which also explains the business model for Kuvacash at launch. Please find the video link below, and feel free to post us any questions.


The video shows the full Kuvacash solution for launch, from the remittance web-applications to the Kuva Wallet through to cash-out/exchange as well as Agent functions and some of our back-office. All this software is live and functional we are showing the latest state of our systems running on production hardware.

***DASH EXCLUSIVITY - SIGNED LETTER OF INTENT (LoI)***
Community members have requested that Kuvacash indicate their intent that the solution is Dash-exclusive. As there is no central authority for the DAO, a clear and open Letter of Intent has been drafted and signed by both James, CEO and co-founder and Drako, Director of Strategy and Propositions for Kuvacash. The link to the signed Letter of Intent (LoI) is provided below:

Kuvacash - Dash Exclusivity signed LoI


Drako and James reaffirm their commitment to the exclusive use of the Dash platform in Kuvacash, as has been publicly stated, but the Letter is a firm public record to reassure community members and MNO's of this. The DAO has funded the vast proportion of Kuvacash technology and operations, and has allowed the Kuva team to access the opportunity in Zimbabwe and wider Africa.


***OPENKUVA - Open Source Kuva Libraries***
Kuva has also launched its open-source initiative with a release of an original Client Access Library for BWS. This is a core component of the Kuvacash system, and has been released under the permissive (commercial and non-commercial use) Clear BSD license. We hope that the library is useful to other community members looking to develop Dash-platform based systems. The Github and associated sample apps and binaries are here:

https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ
https://bintray.com/kuvabase/maven/bwcj
https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ-sample-app

We aim to release other libraries as appropriate - starting with various Dash toolchain packages we have built that we are now using internally in Kuvacash. Please issue pull requests if you have contributions to make - the libraries are in their early stages, and any contributions are appreciated.

*****

***IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT***
The Kuvacash team worked directly with Wachsman PR to secure a prominent and in-depth Coindesk article written by Leigh Cuen.

https://www.coindesk.com/dash-crypto-venezuela-zimbabwe/


This article is a first for Dash. It is because of the power of the DAO that we can land propositions like Kuvacash that have real-world impact. Thank you to all of our supporters who have helped us to make this happen! We are making history now.

Thank you,
James, Drako, Steve, Judy and Spiro - and the rest of us here at Team Kuva

A huge thanks to Steve, Spiro and Zac for compiling the demonstration in such a short time, also to Gethen and Peyton for helping to advise the narrative. To all our supporters, a huge thanks for helping us to get Kuvacash up and running and we hope you enjoy the video.
Thanks,Drako and Team Kuva


NEW: Restructured proposal - 760 Dash to 545 Dash
This is a restructured proposal and the request of the treasury has now been cut by 28% in Dash, or 49% in fiat from the original request. This was made possible through cooperation with Dash Nexus, Dashwatch, and in particular Dash Core Group (DCG). DCG has agreed to contribute a small portion of the required budget upon the successful passing of this revised proposal. We have reduced the pay of the executive by 50.5% by deferral until post-launch. The project has been running for 9 months, supported across two funding periods to allow Kuvacash to develop the necessary software, legal frameworks, business structure and partnerships for launch.

Public Statement
The recent price of Dash together with limited funds available in Treasury this month has necessitated a restructure of the project, including as accurate projections as can be determined.
Kuvacash have been in talks with both Dash Nexus and Dash Core Group, to balance our respective budgets, obtain the necessary financial assistance (from Core, and from personal sources) to allow us the capital required to progress Kuvacash to launch. In addition to all this, James and Drako have also deferred both of their own payments, and will not be paid until the launch of Kuvacash is completed.

Achievements
1. We have approval from the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe for a Tier 1 ADLA license. 
2. We have all the software produced to enterprise standards, have demonstrated (tested fully, demonstrated at moneyconf and additional functionality to DW) will now showcase it fully in a video presentation coming on Thursday 16th. 
3. We have the required financial services partnerships signed and ready to go - from bank accounts to exchange services to remittance businesses with customer bases. It forms a complete ecosystem, and provides for services that are needed in order to facilitate adoption by businesses and users alike. 
4. With Kuva, we have a brand and positioning that makes sense and is compelling in particular to users in Zimbabwe (The word itself means, phonetically 'To Have' in Shona). 
5. Through professionalism, transparency and record-keeping, communication (which was perhaps overly long at times) and cooperation with Dashwatch, Kuvacash is a project that has set the standard for reporting on the DAO.

Pausing the project
It is not possible to 'pause' an initiative and business like Kuvacash - there is a momentum to launch, which involves multiple parties, and ongoing commitments. Kuva business, software development, management staff would need to leave the project and seek alternative income. Building and maintaining a team of this calibre is not trivial nor is it low cost to establish. All the executive is currently paid under market rate as they believe in Kuvacash and their ability to see it through delivery which will bring forth further opportunities. To not launch Kuvacash is the equivalent of bringing together and paying for an advanced engineering and race team who have all been convinced to leave their prior employment in order to join a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. They then build a unique supercar over nearly a year, but then - never get the opportunity to race it. Instead, it gets taken directly to the scrap-yard. And make no mistake - Kuvacash has built a supercar and we are doing all we can to ensure it is brought to the track - no matter who's ego will be bruised in the process. Which brings us to the next point.

The project has, with the support of the DAO achieved what many of its detractors thought was not possible. Sometimes it was just a misunderstanding of what is a very complex project and other times there were more fundamental disagreements (market, technical, ideological). On occasion we'll reach out to try and understand the problem people might have. Many detractors have at this point through watching Kuva's progress and understanding what it is that we are doing, come to their own conclusions and are now fans of the project. We very much appreciate the consideration and change of heart, this takes strength and conviction.

Why are there still persistent detractors, just before launch?
We respect that with a large group of MNOs there are always going to be a small group of vocal detractors of a project and rather than continuing to engage with them we believe that our product with speak louder and more persuasively than we ever could.  These people would rather see the Kuvacash project NEVER launch and be able to say “look we told you so!” than risk being proved wrong with a project that has the potential to materially change the value of Dash. Cutting funding at this critical moment when we are about to pilot the many months of development, regulatory legal work and partnership building we have successfully delivered is a missed opportunity for everyone involved. Let’s take this opportunity to build on what has already been achieved and launch a new kind of money system powered by Dash in a country ready for change!

Another reason, from a separate group, is ideological. Kuvacash Wallet has a fiat bridge, allowing anyone to export or import USD Cash. Although it uses Dash to store value and gives full control (via BIP39/44 HD wallet words) of those keys to the user (we do not store user wallet keys, words nor user funds), the service itself is centralised to an extent, since this is necessary to provide some services efficiently. Examples of these are; phone-number Dash transfers, Paycode, merchant services, charging wallets with inbound remittances, USD cash-out, transport payments. It is however important to note; if people are storing their balances in Dash on Kuvacash (as opposed to having booked a cash-out), then their money is safe and is accessible through other means. For example, using the wallet words on a CoPay wallet, or through an online HD private key recovery service. This is the critical difference between Kuvacash and all other e-money providers on the African continent. Dash is the foundation of Kuvacash, and is used as the 'bank in the sky' to store bulk value so that people's money is always safe. Furthemore, Instantsend provides cash functionality for p2p payments of any kind - we have been pushing for improvements to the protocol to allow us to fully realise this.

In the coming weeks and months as we progress through to launch, we will keep the network updated as to all our progress - this is the moment my team and our MNO supporters on the DAO have been waiting for. Kuvacash is a solution that lets normal people use Dash easily, as Jakob Nielsen would say "Without having to think". It gives people easy access to Dash. It lets them cash-out easily to USD (which is still king in Africa). It lets them make payments to their family, friends and businesses around them. It lets a business operate as a merchant without exposing themselves to the volatility of Dash.

Once we launch Kuvacash, we will be making history - so to everyone, given the hard work you have seen over the last 9 months to get us this far, all we ask is to be given a chance to launch.

Summary
Following 8 months of software development, regulatory and legal work as well as business structuring, Kuvacash will now be launching its service in Zimbabwe.
The launch date of September is our on-schedule date, this has also been socialized and planned with partners since June (shared publicly at Moneyconf), we are now on a committed schedule.

Key Components for Budget Request
Kuvacash has been running on-schedule from it's inception late 2017. We have committed to launching Kuvacash in September 2018 in Harare for the pilot, and are preparing ourselves over August in operational readiness for the September launch. It is critical that we are now funded for the launch stage - the network has funded our development and progress so far, we have met all our milestones leading to this point with partnerships and momentum to launch the Kuvacash wallet and services in Zimbabwe (together with the remittance platform in the UK). This will make history for Dash, as such it is critical that we continue our progress in line with our commitments to the network.

Dashwatch Validation Report July 2018
We have been working hard to ensure MNO’s on the network know the status of our project in detail. To this end, a full 2-day in-person open-book validation and attestation report by a Dashwatch Team representative was completed. This covered a random-sample financial audit of invoices and payments made by Kuvacash, Dash liquidation schedule, our software product validation on Dash Livenet, a validation of all licenses and partnerships obtained. An accompanying video interview to provide answers to community questions raised over a period of several weeks, was also produced by Dashwatch team. 

The written report is here:
https://dashwatch.org/files/1532801904838.pdf

The fully indexed video is here - click on the top title bar of the video to watch on YouTube:


Funding scope
The funding will cover Kuva’s launch –  Phase 1 Pre-Pilot and Phase 2 Pilot activities in Harare, Zimbabwe.
The pilot phases will expand from 10-25 users in the Pre-pilot through to 250+ users in the Phase 2 Pilot, and will be used to implement our end-to-end operations. This includes bringing on an Operations Director, implementing our cash management activities, training our partners and marketing/outreach for inbound remittance services. It will give us the opportunity to bring the software and operations of Kuva’s services to a standard that we can scale from. Once launch has commenced, it will be a continuum through to public launch and scale-out. 

The funding will cover our base requirements, and will in addition to this include;
1.  Ongoing software and web development activities to support operationalizing Kuvacash
2. Premises set-up for cash-out and remittance services
3. Operational ancillaries such as security staffing, cash-replenishment, printed collateral
4. Operations Director and staff to support launch and pilot operations
5. BA and Project Manager roles to support pilot launch
6. Outreach and partner activities to bring on inbound remittance users

**********
Background 

What is Kuvacash?
A way for Dash to realise its mission as mainstream digital cash.
A service that allows users to store Dash, on and off-ramp to USD fiat, receive international remittances, make local payments and access essential local services. Kuvacash is a secure ‘private bank’ in your pocket. It allows storing, receiving and sending money to anyone – from your friends and neighbours through to your family across the world, with a touch. An agent and branch network will allow users to cash-in to Dash or out into USD fiat conveniently. Simple to use merchant services allow anyone to start taking Dash payments and manage the currency risk. Essential service access that users don’t have to wait in queues to pay for.

Kuvacash was funded by the DGBB
Funding of 4,183 Dash was received via DGBB funding between September 2017-November 2017 and April 2018-July 2018. 
This has allowed the Kuvacash founders James Saruchera and Andreiko (Drako) Kerdemelidis to bring together an elite international team from across the globe, to set up and implement the project, including obtaining money services licenses, software development of the Kuva apps and wallet infrastructure, web-applications for remittance services, agent applications and back-office software. The holding website for the project is at https://www.kuvacash.com

Where is Kuvacash?
Kuvacash starts in Zimbabwe and will expand across the African continent. We aim to launch in countries such as Botswana, Mozambique, Zambia then move up to Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania and finally more populous regions such as Ghana and Nigeria.
Our inbound remittances are starting in the UK (pre-pilot and pilot), but this will also be accessible across Europe before the end of 2018.

Why Kuvacash?
Many people across 54 countries in Africa are severely unbanked or underbanked and have had a poor experience with the ‘fiat’ currency or electronic money that their country uses. If people can’t pay or get paid easily, they spend a lot of time and money-making transactions or waiting in queues. It's often a huge hassle to access and pay for essential services like health or transportation, or to get cash, and it affects the quality of life people have across the African continent. Zimbabwe has a particularly acute problem, which Kuvacash is directly addressing. The Starting from Scratch trailer is a short 3-minute video that highlights the issue very clearly.



Frame 48 has completed the first episode of the documentary on the Kuvacash project, that gives a more detailed view of the issue and what we are doing on the ground – this is available here:



Kuvacash application and services main features
1.   Obtaining and safely storing Dash cryptocurrency in an HD wallet.
2.   Easily remit money to friends and family at low cost across borders, directly into a Kuva wallet. From bank account to Dash!
3.   Cash out Dash to USD bills, and cash being always available through the Kuva Agent and Branch partner network.
4.   Anyone can receive and make payments using the method that is easiest for them.  
   I.   through a contact’s number 
   II.   6-digit ‘Kuvacode’,  
   III.   QR code   IV.   NFC 
   V.   Automatic/regular/stored payment 
   VI.   (Advanced) Dash wallet transaction
5.   Seamlessly accessing and paying for essential services like healthcare, transportation, utilities, rates and taxes.
6.   Anyone can become a merchant and take payments and control their currency exposure.
7.   People can apply to take short or medium-term loans that they may need from time-to-time 

Kuvacash Core

Functionality under development:
1.   The Kuvacash Wallet – a BIP32/39/44 secure wallet for storing cryptocurrency
2.   Kuvacash Agent – an agent application with currency exchange provisioning (Dash-USD)
3.   Kuvacash Treasury – a secure client, agent and merchant treasury, hot and cold crypto-wallet infrastructure and ledger with multi-exchange integration, security and audit features.
4.   Kuvacash Merchant – a set of merchant tools for businesses wanting to take payments from Kuvacash wallets.
5.   Kuvacash Remittances – a web-based money remittance service that sends funds to a mobile Kuvacash wallet anywhere in the world. Includes partner integrations (banking, branch partners, net settlement, reporting)
6.   Kuvacash Reporting – a management console for all Kuvacash operational activities, including audit, reporting and compliance
7.   Utility Notes – tradable digital business crypto-collateral used across the network. Agents, Master Agents and Merchants must purchase Utility Notes which are held by Kuvacash, to activate their service provisioning.

Kuvacash Roadmap
Propositions under development
I.   Kuva Cash (Core consumer p2p payments and remittances) 
II.   Kuva Business (Merchant payment solutions)
III.   Kuva Transport (Touch to pay-per-ride for commuter and taxicab/minicab)
IV.   Kuva Utility (Pay electricity, gas, water automatically)
V.   Kuva Health (Book and pay for a doctor or health professional)
VI.   Kuva Authority (Pay taxes, rates etc)
VII.   Kuva Finance (Obtain finance based on your wallet history)

*********

Foreground 

Business Summary and Progress

1.   With the support the DAO has given us, Kuvacash has obtained a Tier 1 ADLA money license in Zimbabwe – a world-first for Dash. 
2.   Signed NDA and defined a pilot project with a Tier 2 regulated financial services company in Zimbabwe that is one of the largest movers of funds in and out of Zimbabwe, on both the consumer and business side. 
3.   Signed MOU with a Tier 2 regulated, account taking bank, which has 14,000 account holders and branches in Zimbabwe's five major cities. 
4.   NDA with a fully regulated (Tier 1 and 2) commercial bank with branches in Zimbabwe's five major cities. Collaboration details to be shared in future. 
5.   Met with Mayor of Harare, Bernard Menyanyeni, presenting our project plan, and received positive response and support.
6.   Met and presented a detailed feasibility study to the director of the City of Harare relating to the ‘Kuva ropeway project’, for which Kuvacash will be the exclusive payment method.
7. Kuvacash is now applying for its own MSB license in the UK with the FCA, allowing remittance services under its own umbrella. This is being done with the assistance of FSCOM in the UK.
8. Kuvacash premises are now secured in Harare and preparation is in place for the final inspection by Reserve bank of Zimbabwe related to Tier 1 ADLA license and operations.

Kuvacash Product Development
1.   Full MVP product completed and demonstrated to the network running on Dash Livenet (at Moneyconf Dublin in June 2018) –    
 •   Sending funds via phone number     
•   Request funds and Scan-to-pay     
•   Agent booking and cash-out app features
3.   MVP of reporting and back-office user administration portal completed in readiness for launch - attested by Dashwatch
4.   SMS loop validation and on-boarding flow, including creation and recovery of wallets completed to MVP level
5.   Development of treasury system and partner net settlement (back-office) completed to MVP level
6.   Partner integration requirements work completed to MVP level, but UX/UI changes in effect prior to launch (Web-based money remittance, branch cash-out, net settlement)

Demonstration at 3m04s by James Saruchera with Fernando from Dash Core at Moneyconf



Development Staging

Many other features and propositions will be staged as appropriate (as per above roadmap list).
In staging are the new Native (Android) mobile app, which is in active development and on-schedule for launch (the Dash CoPay wallet build having been deprecated due to maintainability issues of the original codebase). The native Kuva mobile application is in feature parity with the deprecated CoPay system.

Reporting and transparency
The Dash DGBB and treasury funds Kuvacash’s activities, and from the beginning of the project Kuvacash has been providing regular updates to the network. We wish to set the standard for proposal updates and reporting. We believe in radical transparency, and in showing as much detail as possible without compromising our other functions or competitiveness as the organization grows.

6 live progress report webinars have been produced so far, and are published on our Kuvacash YouTube channel here: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAqKI-u6xS9Ry2PdqMdIVkQ

These include proposal consultation pre-funding through to bi-monthly full updates from the team and monthly mini-updates. In addition to this, the Dashwatch full to-date open-book validation report through to July 2018 and accompanying video report has been posted at the top of this proposal document.

Financial Summary for funding

Kuva Core  Projected(USD)
Complete financials and comparatives with prior projections and liquidations - see Dashwatch report: pages 6, 7 and 8
https://dashwatch.org/files/1532801904838.pdf

MONTH                                                        Sept 18   Oct-18   Nov-18  
     
Executive Team -                                         18,600   18,600   18,600
Software Development -                            57,870   59,220   59,220  
Legal and Advisory -                                    12,700   22,700   22,700  
Travel, Office, Fees mktng -                     28,360   39,910   41,935
Operational Contingency -                        17,630   19,565   19,868
_____________________________________________________
Total Run                                                     135,160   159,995   162,323[/b]

DAO Funding requested                            92,650   92,650   92,650


(Note: Special projects frozen)
DAO funding requested spread over 3 months: 545 x 3 @ $170/Dash

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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3 points,4 days ago
I agree with Tao's sentiment below, I really want this to pass so please stop shooting yourselves in the foot!
Reply
6 points,5 days ago
I’m looking forward to seeing what you have to announce, as I’m excited about the possibilities of this project.

However, I would also like to point out that your PR needs work, and that if Spiro and Judy had been the public-facing representatives for all of last cycle, you would likely be funded already.

Treating people with respect and dignity is one of the values of Dash Nation, and the assumptions made by the team about people’s intentions, followed by the name-calling was definitely not helpful.

Please keep this in mind in your future interactions with the community.

Still voting YES at this time.
Reply
4 points,24 days ago
To me it's quit clear this month it was between D-A-CH and KuvaCash.
Even do they both are different types of projects it's need to do a comparison.

1) What do we know about user adoption ?
- Crypto-currency for the most part has been something was active in the rich parts of the world.
This has let to lots of trading and little to know user adoption (do the bitcoin 1mb blocks obviously was major reason)
- Crypto-currency has only become somewhat active in country's such as Venezuela, even do it's very new it seems to catching on at a rate that exponentially that will likely soon surpass all of the western world combined (assuming we exclude trade related, transactions)
- Most of the company's that are active in crypto in the Western world do not always do if to be used as commerce, but very often it's more of marketing gimmick.

D-A-CH aims and communicates with such company's with success. Do there success depends on how well there members are at communicating with them, some of the such as Esra have proven to be very good at what they do. However how will will this time of success scale ? and with scale comes extra cost, and will the effects be long lasting or do we have keep paying D-A-CH for the fore-sable further ?

What do we really gain for D-A-CH right now ? Media presence ? Does this lead to lots to price speculation ?
Personally I don't see the speculation going any where anytime soon, because the first question is how is adoption go ?
Oh nobody is using it in our Western country's even do the bitcoin tech is already 10years old ? Adoption still seems years away, even with Dash evolution this is very likely not going to change. Unless there going to be big crisis's unfolding but bitcoin will take the biggest chuck because it seen as digital gold anyways.

KuvaCash aims to deliver a product and a service to does that desperately need a better currency, people are still very skeptical do, and some are in survival mode so much that they don't have the time or the energy to start using crypto.
None the less if and when KuvaCash get's that level of trust it will not just be for Zimbabwe, but this product and service has the potential to scale much larger.

From what I tell about KuvaCash, they already seem to know that in order for them to scale they need to use something called a "franchise model" Make no mistake this is not just something that could compete with Bitpay, but also with the likes of Western Union, in fact I will even go so far to say, if KuvaCash succeed's. KuvaCash will be the Koda moment for the likes of Western Union. The KuvaCash model really is that good.

* Just to be clear one of the this I am basing this on is this:
in the past I have traded with well over 4500 people all over the world, with at least 10.000 transactions ( localbitcoins didn't count after 10k anymore).

** Fellow masternode owners if you vote No for this, thank please be fair and honest why you did so, if it's because your feelings got hurt, than I fear for the future of Dash. If you have experience or knowledge greater than me and know why I am wrong please stand up and counter me if not. Than accept others professional insights (mine included).
Reply
2 points,24 days ago
*Kodak moment
Reply
8 points,24 days ago
"Fellow masternode owners if you vote No for this, thank please be fair and honest why you did so, if it's because your feelings got hurt, than I fear for the future of Dash. If you have experience or knowledge greater than me and know why I am wrong please stand up and counter me if not. Than accept others professional insights (mine included)."

Be scared for the future of Dash. It seems most masternode owners will fund someone who strokes their egos over someone who has a genuinely good idea, business plan, a great team, and is extremely transparent with funds. This is just sad.
Reply
4 points,24 days ago
Excuse me, not most but a significant enough portion to derail the whole project.
Reply
1 point,24 days ago
So you're telling us that the KuvaCash model is is a WU killer? It's a bold statement to make without any evidence. From what I can see KuvaCash themselves don't even know if their business model works yet.. Isn't it why they're asking for money in this proposal? To try this solution out and see if it actually works at all?

I'm not saying that it won't work, but we're a long way from being able to make such a claim with any degree of confidence in my opinion.

Walter
Reply
2 points,23 days ago
I said could potentially, I am not saying it will.
For the investment we are making and let's give it a 1% change of succeeding, that we will see a 10.000x value increase of Dash and Kuvacash. In other words you'll need to have very low expectations for this not to be a good VC investment.
Reply
2 points,23 days ago
At any-rate You realize how many benefits KuvaCash has over WU ?
Here are few off the top of my head
1 a WU is one currency in one currency out, you'll need to another change each time you want a different currency
1 b KuvaCash will be in Dash which is highly liquid, which can be used as Dash or changed to any other currency, or you can do a partical exchange. Basically its up to the user that picks it up in which currency he/she wants it, instead of letting the sender pre-determ it currency out.
2 WU fee's are considerably higher than KuvaCash is charging.
3a WU will play bank for you untill you pick it up
3b With Kuvacash you can simply open you're Kuvacash wallet and choose to send it to a wallet you controle
4a You can not do transaction from you WU account
4b You can do transactions from you're KuvaCash account

There are probably many more, this is like moving from a analog to digital pictures, sure maybe in the beginning it's not that create, but over time the benefit's increase (I mean we could have camera's on our smartphone if it was still analog)
Reply
5 points,25 days ago
If you are funded by Dash, you are an ambassador for Dash. Being aggressive and ill tempered is not acceptable, no matter how you have been provoked.
Reply
1 point,25 days ago
Hi Acedian,

It’s just business, and if you don’t like the style my apologies.

But note that the DAO has paid over 1.2 Million USD to fund this. We have delivered on-schedule and are at the eve of launch. Look at the demo, take a look at Dashwatch and look at what we have achieved. Take a look at our open-source libraries as well, for the quality of what has been produced.

Then vote with your pocket if you want us to access this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,25 days ago
It is impressive, but irrelevant. Common courtesy shouldn't be ignored just because you have achieved a lot.
Reply
2 points,25 days ago
@Acedian
Irrelevant ? I am sorry but that the level of business instincts you have, you still have a thing or 2 to learn about being a MNO, I think almost all MNO need to learn more do.

First off an more importantly please understand, that the Dash treasure and MNO-ers need some bigger teeth, look at VC's and a program like Shark-tank, these people didn't get where they are by be nice. They got there by playing hard ball and demand iron clad contracts. If one side is to nice or native, the other side will take advantage of them.

If we have to accept this kind of rude behavior but at the same time can help the poorest in the World have better lives even save lives, well it worth dealing with one not so friendly person. But more importantly KuvaCash is potentially a bigger better all round version than Bitpay.

@Kuva, I hope you'll be able to swallow you're pride, because at the end all will be forgiven, and you'll be carried on shoulders if Kuva can get where it potentially can get.
Reply
0 points,14 days ago
"look at VC's and a program like Shark-tank, these people didn't get where they are by be nice". <-- ROFL.
Not true.

Most good business is done in an atmosphere of constructive courtesy. Rude and bolshy behaviour is simply characteristic of an infantile personality with a chip on their shoulder, not somebody who understands industrial progress.

Also, business isn't about one side "taking advantage" of the other. It's about establishing mutually beneficial agreements, making them work and soliciting wider support for them in a constructive way.
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3 points,24 days ago
I don't think rude behaviour will help with what Dash is providing the world. This isn't cut throat business, it is providing funding to help the world realise the potential of this new global payments network. Yes, we have to work as a business, but can't we improve on the businesses of old?

MNOs do not require bigger teeth. They require a better understanding of business so that they might make better judgements. The MNOs only work with what is presented to them. It can't be so easily compared to anything that exists today and I for one would like to see improve on what exists today.
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2 points,25 days ago
Funny how good he is at lashing out, but can't stand the scrutiny of a longstanding and trusted community member like TheDesertLynx, to the point of having him banned from further investigating what they are doing on DN.
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2 points,25 days ago
Hi Acedian,

I’ll continue to call out nonsense when I see it. It’s clear what happened here, nothing at all to do with common courtesy. Joel is deeply upset I derailed Swann, and is out for it, to the detriment of the network. We’ve never seen eye-to-eye, pretty clear to all.

Several other kooks and ideologues are also attempting to disparage what is the most transparent project ever on the DAO, and one with some great software ready to launch. You think Jobs, Gates, Elon or Bezos were ‘nice guys with common courtesy’? For that matter, anyone else who has ever built anything of value or innovated? What kind of character do you think gets work done at this speed and at this quality?

Anyway, if so, that’s too bad.

I stand by every single word I’ve ever posted on DN and in here, and I stand by our work.

Vote as you like, it’s all good. We’re gonna get it done, and we’re going to enjoy doing it :)

And a huge thank you to our supporters, we’ll have something coming your way soon ;)

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,24 days ago
I have read some of the discussions you had with Joel, Drako. And I even do I am (still) a big fan of Joel's articles. His behavior in that discussion was behind him, and it was behind you. He is to emotionally invested in Ben to see clear. Don't lower yourself and just avoid it all together. You can't win again arguments with feels.

I actually wanted to join in that discussion and pick your side, but opted out for the reason above.

Just leave it be, just focus on KuvaCash, if all goes well you'll be one of the biggest names in crypto-history.
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0 points,24 days ago
I meant
behind=beneath
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1 point,24 days ago
Of course you should "call out nonsense", but there are many ways to do this. People are rarely receptive to the style you often employ.

Please see my above reply to A_node_to_a_Master for my thoughts on cut throat business philosophy.

Thank you for replying to me. There wasn't the room in the budget one way or the other this month. Please try a fresh approach next cycle. I may have overreacted with a vote change based on your communications to the community, but I too stand by what I said. This is a new form of business or at least, it should be!
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1 point,25 days ago
What "ideology" do those "detractors" follow? You keep repeating that, but never explain.
I don't think I've ever met a business executive so resistant to advice even from supporters.

A former supporter now turned "kooky detractor".
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3 points,24 days ago
While I can't speak for Drako I think this is the ideology he is referring to: (comment from Reasonably somehwere below here)


"I have been thinking about the future of blockchain projects vs the traditional financial sector. The idea with this project is sold as an intermediate step towards adopting crypto. But I do not see any such future or reason for them to do so given they hold us-dollars in their kuva-account. This project only enables dash on a transmission layer, not on an end user layer because: They will pay with kuvaapp-dollars for their busfares/shopping etc, great, BUT the end recipiant will still receive dollars and not dash even though dash is used as a transmission layer. It will NOT increase the value of dash since users will most likely choose to hold dollars since that is what they know. The project does not promote direct blockchain/dash usage, which is what we should be doing, not supporting the extension and longlivety of the debt-based economy. I think it is the wrong approach and I am opposed to it for the reasons stated, even thogh the app might seem great and it will serve the people in the traditional FIAT way it will not bring them the freedom they can and should have with open free cryptosolutions.
They need to learn about blockchain and dash and use that and hold that, not hold fiat. It seems also this project is NOT safe for the end user as promoted, if kuvacash goes down, as most users will hold DOLLARS those dollars will BE GONE for the end user because it is still a CENTRALIZED solution representing the dollars they hold. And other dash wallets cannot pay for bus-rides etc using their dash wallet. No. It does not help adoption of dash, rather the opposite, forget it, in essense its like a mobile app for an exchange/bank with an integrated dash wallet noone will use (except in some remittance cases), and why do you need to 'settle' the transaction on the blockchain? There is not need for that since you hold all the fiat, you can just make a database entry changing the value of the wallets from one user to another unless doing remittances. Its horrible.. scrap it, it is the opposite of what the principles the crypto and blockchain community is trying to acheive."
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1 point,23 days ago
That the great thing with KuvaCash you can keep it in the KuvaCash app, or you cash out to you're dash wallet or you cash out to fiat. You have the same risks with Western Union the difference is do that Western Union is of course big company that is going bankrupt anytime soon, but KuvaCash does have the backing of Dash-treasury.
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3 points,24 days ago
Kuva Team Members, I feel bad for you because you seem like upstanding and good ambassadors for Dash. However, your leader Drako has come unhinged. If this proposal fails please consider forming a new team sans Drako and we may have something!

To other MNOs let's not forget the many facts and circumstantial evidence of Drako's unreliable and divisive behavior:
1) Drako discovered Ben Swann created a masternode with his Dash funds and he skewered him for it causing Ben Swann to lose his proposal by a wider margin (benefiting himself). I agree that Ben Swann shouldn't have misappropriated funds this way but Drako's rude behavior was inexcusable
2) Months later it was discovered that Drako had created his own masternode from treasury funds and had been paid out twice with this MN (hypocrite anyone?). On top of that, he used it to vote for his own proposal (fraud!) and used it to vote against proposals like the Dash Racer and many others.
3) There's indisputable evidence that Drako mixed this treasury funded MN with his personal funds or with his other 5 nodes (embezzlement anyone?).
4) Then Drako started to focus his attention on the "excessive" Core proposals in an apparent attempt to have more funds for his proposal. Fellow MNOs were not amused.
5) Recently Drako decided to attack Venezuelan proposal, the bread and butter of Dash efforts, in order to bolster his own. Fellow MNOs not amused.
6) Then he tried to pressure and poopoo DACH proposals and tried to "negotiate" for them to lower their proposal ask for his selfish needs. Understandably, they didn't comply to his one-sided demands. No one was amused.

So far these are all FACTS. Now let's get to some circumstantial evidence:
7) Triptolemoose is very likely Drako himself. Just check out the language, cadence and manner of speech. One example is the use of "VRBO" repeatedly and "MaxYoga" and "Triptolemoose" never ever communicate with each other but they're staunch supporters of each other. Much more circumstantial evidence of this abounds.
8) Drako very likely used one of his 5 nodes for triptolemoose and the other two to get his team members into the MNO private channel (a loophole that only Drako could discover IMO)

Anyway, I politely urge MNOs to vote no. Forget Kuva, we need to put it behind us and remove the tumor before it spreads.
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3 points,24 days ago
Wow, some FUD to address.

Drako is very direct, I can see that this rubs some people the wrong way, but I know he has the best intentions for Dash. After all, he is a multi MNO.

1) Drako discovered Ben Swann created a masternode with his Dash funds and he skewered him for it causing Ben Swann to lose his proposal by a wider margin (benefiting himself). I agree that Ben Swann shouldn't have misappropriated funds this way but Drako's rude behavior was inexcusable

A) Ben Swann did not achieve success as a dash ambassador. His youtube views were dismal. He was paid soo handsomely for his efforts that he even managed to scrape aside 1000 Dash in the process (which Drako was right to point out, as it was a true misappropriation of funds). Ben has since moved to SmartCash, requesting a tiny fraction from their treasury compared to what he was charging Dash.

2) Months later it was discovered that Drako had created his own masternode from treasury funds and had been paid out twice with this MN (hypocrite anyone?). On top of that, he used it to vote for his own proposal (fraud!) and used it to vote against proposals like the Dash Racer and many others.

A) Drako addressed this already in multiple places. The Dash was temporarily held in a single MNO for 2 payment cycles (approx 3 dash) while they set up the structure of the Kuva business. Any vote placed from that MNO did not sway any proposal and it was dissolved in 3 weeks. In addition, the Dash Racer came forward and publicly backed Drako, telling MNOs that Drako was direct and honest with him regarding his initial NO votes on the Dash Racer proposal.

3) There's indisputable evidence that Drako mixed this treasury funded MN with his personal funds or with his other 5 nodes (embezzlement anyone?). 

A) Drako has addressed this in answer on this page. The Dash was held on a hardware wallet and moved to another. He has never mixed funds via PrivateSend, so everything is traceable and transparent, even the ~3 Dash from 2 MN payments that you are soo concerned with. Some employees are paid in Dash, and Dash Watch have been through Kuva’s books multiple times. The Kuva proposal has been under more scrutiny than any other proposal in Dash's history.

Feel free to compare with GreenCandle (MNOs are seemingly ignoring the latest DashBoost proposal currently up for a vote, or the DACH proposal which is not bringing in value anywhere near the $75K per month they are asking IMO).

4) Then Drako started to focus his attention on the "excessive" Core proposals in an apparent attempt to have more funds for his proposal. Fellow MNOs were not amused.

A) Core has pledged their support for Kuvacash. His attention was to do with Core using up most of the monthly budget, and the result was that Core has subsequently promised support and top-up funds to a couple of community projects (Kuva included).

5) Recently Drako decided to attack Venezuelan proposal, the bread and butter of Dash efforts, in order to bolster his own. Fellow MNOs not amused.

A) Drako simply highlighted the difference in Kuva’s approach to mainstream adoption. He compared Pizza meet-ups and expensive one-by-one merchant adoption in Venezuela, to Kuva’s approach in securing licences to operate, and meeting with govt officials and large corporates who will integrate Kuva’s solution directly into their products. He was highlighting that alternative approach that Kuva is taking could be more effective, and even extend into Venezuela when the time is right.

6) Then he tried to pressure and poopoo DACH proposals and tried to "negotiate" for them to lower their proposal ask for his selfish needs. Understandably, they didn't comply to his one-sided demands. No one was amused.

A) Several other proposal owners (E.G. DashNexus, DashWatch) actually lowered or deferred their treasury ask based on these negotiations. DACH did not, however. They simply chose to pretend that they are lowering their ask, but what they did was lower their ‘costs’. They are still asking for the same 408 Dash, which is now $75K USD, or $900K USD annually for a service that I don’t feel is providing $900K of value to the network (see my comments and unanswered questions on their proposal, and DYOR).


7) Triptolemoose is very likely Drako himself. Just check out the language, cadence and manner of speech. One example is the use of "VRBO" repeatedly and "MaxYoga" and "Triptolemoose" never ever communicate with each other but they're staunch supporters of each other. Much more circumstantial evidence of this abounds. 

A) MNOs, don’t fall for the Kooky conspiracies. I am not Drako, I introduced Ryan to Drako and frequently communicate with him. I guess it is up to others to verify my statement as they have done in the past.

8) Drako very likely used one of his 5 nodes for triptolemoose and the other two to get his team members into the MNO private channel (a loophole that only Drako could discover IMO)

A) I don’t see where you came up with this. I have my own MN, what he has and how he manages funds is his own business.

I’ve been in Dash Nation since the beginning when I helped Tao with setting it up (I even was a mod until recently). Tao didn’t like how I was using the platform (disrespecting members, posting speculation as fact - just like you are doing here with your post) and issued me a permaban from the DN platform about a week ago when I told someone who was making negative comments about Kuva (but who didn’t even know what a VCO was) to go and do some reading (I showed disrespect). As I am banned from there, I have not been back since.

Here is my offending comment which earns me the Dash Nation ban.

“Fabio it’s obvious you haven’t been following the kuvacash project. All the info is there, go and put in some effort. VCO = Vote Controlled Offering”

I hope you like my answers.

And it goes without saying, I want to see Kuva landed in Zimbabawe, as do the vast majority of Dash holders and MNOs!

Voting YES
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1 point,24 days ago
Again, using that word “kooky”. Are you even hiding that you’re Drako?
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1 point,24 days ago
7 and 8 are speculative but 1-6 are fatal IMO.
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6 points,25 days ago
***IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT***
***DASH EXCLUSIVITY - SIGNED LETTER OF INTENT (LoI)***
Community members have requested that Kuvacash indicate their intent that the solution is Dash-exclusive. As there is no central authority for the DAO, a clear and open Letter of Intent has been drafted and signed by both James, CEO and co-founder and Drako, Director of Strategy and Propositions for Kuvacash. The link to the signed Letter of Intent (LoI) is provided below:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b33V2oOjTaqsP94hvUiemh97B8NWOhAO/view?usp=sharing

Drako and James reaffirm their commitment to the exclusive use of the Dash platform in Kuvacash, as has been publicly stated, but the Letter is a firm public record to reassure community members and MNO's of this. The DAO has funded the vast proportion of Kuvacash technology and operations, and has allowed the Kuva team to access the opportunity in Zimbabwe and wider Africa.

***OPENKUVA - Open Source Kuva Libraries***

Kuva has also launched its open-source initiative with a release of an original Client Access Library for BWS. This is a core component of the Kuvacash system, and has been released under the permissive (commercial and non-commercial use) Clear BSD license. We hope that the library is useful to other community members looking to develop Dash-platform based systems. The Github and associated sample apps and binaries are here:

https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ
https://bintray.com/kuvabase/maven/bwcj
https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ-sample-app

We aim to release other libraries as appropriate - starting with various Dash toolchain packages we have built that we are now using internally in Kuvacash. Please issue pull requests if you have contributions to make - the libraries are in their early stages, and any contributions are appreciated.

*****
*****

Thank you to all our supporters,
James, Drako, Judy, Spiro and all of us at Team Kuva
Reply
0 points,24 days ago
This is funny, I have the votes to decide this thing.
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0 points,24 days ago
I changed my votes to Yes but it says "Estimated end of broadcasting your votes at random timestamps to enhance voting anonymity: in 3 hours 3 minutes", so I don't think you will get all my votes until after the deadline has passed. You should be up again next month now though.
I'm sure you can make your 2 month reserves last until next cycle, that's what reserves are there for.

I may even vote for kuva again if the right agreements are in place, the exclusivity LOI was a good start but I have a few more ask before you get my votes again. We'll talk later.
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4 points,25 days ago
Two Kuvacash employees verified supposed masternode ownership using masternode addresses already known to be associated with another member of the project in order to gain access to a private discussion forum. What exactly is going on here? I believe the masternodes deserve to know.
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4 points,25 days ago
Reposted from the #kuvacash channel on Dash Nation:

Allow me to clarify my question. Here is the original KuvaCash proposal:
https://www.dashninja.pl/proposaldetails.html?proposalhash=becc3b9f2f18b0be55e0322e74a59a226927d3cfb8aff79af6124eae6c0ae81f

With the original payout address, as we can see from the three treasury payments:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/address.dws?XkCJ5ANRkN2RMZMda3h44aknQin9wauRSe.htm

Funds from that address can be seen forming a masternode here:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?4548587.htm

Now, a transfer combined the inputs from the addresses of six different masternodes, including the one made with Kuva proposal funds, into a single transaction:
https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/tx.dws?4723200.htm

Two of the five remaining masternodes were used to prove MNO status for the two Kuva employees. That's it, I'm merely asking for an explanation of the facts presented here. That shouldn't be too difficult. (I withheld the addresses of the two employees as a courtesy to their privacy, but will reveal them upon request)
Reply
-1 point,25 days ago
Hi Joel,

The ownership or part ownership of the Masternodes is information that forms a part of someone’s own personal financial affairs and arrangements.

And the rules of Dash Nation state that if you use individual keys from Masternodes to prove ownership (or at least control of those keys), you are allowed in MNO-only.

Tao has earlier today reconfirmed that he himself introduced two new people from Kuvacash to MNO-only and was happy with the proof provided, so both partners of Kuvacash are completely eligible to participate and answer the questions of the community in MNO-only.

It appears the majority of the community is happy with this arrangement.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,25 days ago
"The ownership or part ownership of the Masternodes is information that forms a part of someone’s own personal financial affairs and arrangements." Agreed with this first statement, however in this case this concerns proposal funds. Proposal funds were mixed in with these, as you put it, "personal financial affairs." Why are proposal/company funds being stored in the personal accounts of two Kuvacash employees?
Reply
-3 points,25 days ago
Hi Joel,

They aren’t. Any more fud? Full financials were published, fully checked in person by Dashwatch.

Do you have any more attempts at disruption you’d like to try?

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
5 points,25 days ago
This type of attitude is not something I want to see in Dash proposals. I am changing my vote to "No".
Reply
0 points,25 days ago
Hi Acedian,

Sorry to hear. Joels behaviour on Discord has led him now to being banned from discussing or disparaging the Kuvacash project further on Dash Nation.

If we don’t receive funding this month, we cannot launch. This is no good for anyone - primarily Dash itself.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,25 days ago
Great job Drako, and great orwellian wording as usual. So Joels behavior "led him now to being banned"? You mean, you complained to the Mod? Why was this not discussed out in the open as in every other case? Who do you think you are? Why don't you bring some more employees into Discord and pass them as MNO so you can shut down more critics?
Reply
-1 point,25 days ago
Hi Macno,

You can take it up with Tao, he finally saw what was going on.

Both execs from Kuva were there to answer questions in depth for MNO’s and we’re admitted as per the rules of DN.

You are a persistent detractor, and unfortunately on the wrong side of us making history ;)

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,24 days ago
So it turns out he was not even banned...Sorry MNOs that I believed Drako, won't happen again.
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2 points,24 days ago
There was no need whatsoever to sneak them last minute into the MNO-only channel. They did an excellent job reparing the damage you had done until you decided to do some more.
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1 point,24 days ago
I agree with that much for sure.

Walter
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5 points,25 days ago
Then why were inputs from both employees' verified personal masternode addresses combined with inputs from the masternode made with Kuvacash funds both combined into a single transaction? There has to be an explanation.

There is no need for hostility, these are very reasonable and important questions to ask regarding management of proposal funds.
Reply
1 point,25 days ago
Hi Joel,

Funds were in one hardware wallet, moved to another, if I recall.

As stated. Dash was held in trust. Combining payments is part of internal accounting processes. All fully transparent with dash watch.

We never mix, everything is traceable and transparent and we feel this is best practice for proposal owners.

Enough of the passive aggressive nonsense Joel.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,25 days ago
No need for unwarranted hostility, these are simple accounting questions. Doing so does not inspire confidence form investors.

That answer makes sense, combined with your follow-up, thank you. As I understand it now, some personal funds/compensation are held in trust alongside Kuvacash funds. Feel free to clarify if I got it wrong, but if not I have no further questions. Thank you again for your time and transparency.
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5 points,25 days ago
Thank you the_desert_lynx. I see no issue with the questions you have raised and I feel some clarification was required.
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-2 points,25 days ago
Hi Joel,

You are not correct - all Kuvacash funds are held in trust, as is equity in all Kuva businesses, as is cash from liquidations until it is spent on operations, in lieu of our formal operating bank accounts.

Personal funds are accounted for and held separate from Kuva funds presently.

All related accounting has been verified by Dashwatch, to a level not seen in any other proposal.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,25 days ago
Ok I'm officially confused again. I'll be more specific as to avoid confusion.

This (former) masternode was created using funds directly from the Kuvacash proposal payout address:
XfBfvpP6dfJYHowRmP6MifAkeHcGHRw5TS

Funds from that address, along with the following 5 masternode addresses, were combined into a SINGLE TRANSACTION:
XazYgm32CusonfDCAdNTt5Emjsz56GsHfR
XexMyHLFixNuWsRuAA79QkEbwBiRgPyCMf
XpPgDPhj947PuuocEhc8TyW24AoVr8mYpo
Xg8TZsusXZypgJS7MR9eaDewvyQVwqVepH
XuwmpoPtzEAwsvXeQApEAfZHFpxCtu3KHX

Are the 5 masternodes listed above Kuvacash funds or personal funds? That should be a very simple either/or question to answer, and will put this to rest for good.
Reply
-2 points,25 days ago
Hi Joel,

The accounting for that was done months ago, covered months ago, checked by Dashwatch, fully attested.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
3 points,25 days ago
In that case it should be very simple to answer: are those five nodes personal funds or company funds?
Reply
3 points,25 days ago
I've heard the words 'held in trust' mentioned so many times now, but what do you actually mean?

a) Is it an established formal legal arrangement that involves a 'settlor', 'trustee' and 'beneficiary'
or,
b) You just hold all the funds, assets and equity in your name for the time being, until such time as you figure out how to structure things properly.

Thanks

Walter
Reply
-1 point,25 days ago
Hi Walters,

Held in trust means ‘by an individual, under their name(s) in this context. That individual is either me or James depending on the entity/funds. We hold both funds and business equity in trust.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,25 days ago
One more thing. Several employees are paid in Dash directly. Also has been stated multiple times, checked by Dashwatch in-person.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,25 days ago
I have no particular information with regards to this, but I have to think they're just hungry for information, which I could understand. Isn't the 48 hour time-out over? solarguy
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-4 points,25 days ago
Hi Solarguy,

To confirm - well prior to our two representatives having access to MNO- only, I was also able to access it.

Just another storm in a teacup from the persistent detractors.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
3 points,25 days ago
So we have - according to Tao- "pretty convincing" but "not 100% irrefutable proof" of questionable behavior. Ok. Fair enough.
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-2 points,25 days ago
Hi Macno,

See above reply to Joel.

Thanks,
Drako
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2 points,25 days ago
I believe so too.
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9 points,26 days ago
I would like to state that I’m impressed with the professionalism displayed by the two representatives of Kuvacash who attended Dash Nation on Discord in Drako’s absence. They were very patient, answered questions which may already have been answered in a non-threatening way, and were very open to suggestions. In short, they are great representatives of Kuvacash. It’s important to note that this team is not run by just one person, it’s a team effort, and in my opinion it is a fantastic opportunity to gain a foothold and continue building the Dash Nation in Africa. Please consider this when deciding with your last-minute vote.

I’m voting YES for Kuvacash.
Reply
0 points,25 days ago
Just 44 more votes. OMG. I am so disappointed that this is failing. Oh well, that's democracy for you :(
Reply
2 points,26 days ago
Please resubmit on the next round people obviously want this but its a funding issues.
Reply
7 points,26 days ago
Dash Watch August 27th 2018 Report on
Kuvacash Base Funding 002 by kuvateam
https://dashwatch.org/files/1535412220486.pdf
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12 points,27 days ago
I am hoping for the success of Kuvacash but am disappointed at what I feel to be completely unhinged comments directed at other community members, other projects, and moderators. Please listen to everyone around you, even many of your supporters are frustrated with this. This is the most aggravating yes vote I've had. Stop shooting yourself in the foot please and show respect.
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5 points,27 days ago
Hi TroyDASH,

Thanks for the support. Sorry you are feeling aggravated - and thank you very much for your ongoing support.

Spiro and Judy from Kuva exec have asked to speak with the community, so they will be on DN shortly. They may give somewhat of a different face to the business, and will be there to answer further queries.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
3 points,26 days ago
Indeed, I got very frustrated and lost in all the drama, even though I was always supportive of Kuvacash initiative. Anyway, I'm very pleased with the answers Judy is providing at the Dash Nation today and hope this will encourage the negative voters to change some votes last minute...
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8 points,27 days ago
I can confirm this. Thanks, Drako, that is much appreciated, by me, at least.
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2 points,26 days ago
Voting YES....as I have been doing with this project. Ground has been made.
It is not easy just sticking to the facts, rather than getting caught in dramas.
This project is huge. Life was never meant to be easy. Soldier onwards.
Reply
2 points,26 days ago
Hi CriticalInput,

Thanks for the support, hope we can get to launch this month after all this work, and get this into users hands!

Thanks,
Drako
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0 points,26 days ago
I believe it was Judith Miara who mentioned on another forum that Kuvacash would be willing to publish a letter of intent to remain exclusive to Dash. Can we see this letter before voting closes? I, for one, will NOT consider voting for this proposal in the absence of such a letter. Thank you for your renewed and positive engagement.
Reply
8 points,27 days ago
It's sad to see this project in full meltdown mode, lashing out at every conceivable other project and now even the masternodes themselves, the very people they should be trying to make happy.

James, I hope you find another way to launch and get a working product out. I would suggest you find a new investor relations liaison in the future.
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0 points,27 days ago
Young people under stress, really, it's not proper behavior, but I am not going to hold it against the Kuva team. None of us are perfect and it's easy for an old fart like me to keep calm, in my younger days, I would have freaked out. It's desperate times, and obviously, they think this is the most important project (as they should) so when you see it collapsing, well, you try to argue for your share of the tiny pie :(

I hope you come back again next month a little wiser, a little more mature. Good luck guys!
Reply
0 points,27 days ago
Hi Tante,

Thanks, appreciate your support - need to make sure this gets through for this month so we can launch. I hope people recognise that this is it, and let us get it done.

Watch the video, think carefully and vote with your pockets is all I have to say.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-1 point,26 days ago
I'm pleased that it seems like better negotiators in the company have been speaking with investors, it seems like a step in the right direction.
Reply
-8 points,27 days ago
Hi CaptainDuffy,

Drako is co-founder and is key to the successful implementation of the project. You would be best to read his posts and arguments in order to better understand exactly where he is coming from, because you may indeed learn something yourself.

It appears a vocal minority is attempting to derail the project. Drako won’t stand for this nonsense, even if it irks the kooks ;)

Anyway, we sincerely hope to get to launch Kuvacash, this is the work of more than 30 people over the course of a year. Easy to dismiss from an armchair.

Thank you to everyone who has supported us so far, let’s get this launched.

Thanks,
James and Drako
Reply
8 points,27 days ago
Guys, please learn from your mistakes. Hint: your mistake is attacking back at trolls or just attacking at all. This is a business, you need to just present facts, without too much emotion, and don't go attacking other projects, as this is really looked down upon. I know you're hurting, but please step back, breathe, and then regroup, rethink, and maybe evaluate where you went wrong, because you did go in the wrong direction. You made too many MNOs angry. I don't care if you feel what you said was right, you went in the wrong direction because the results are you didn't pass. I'm 100% for this project, that's why I want you to do better next time!!!
Reply
-2 points,24 days ago
Totally agree, some EQ would've gone a long way.
Reply
4 points,27 days ago
fellow MN owners. please use common sense when considering proposals for funding. DASH os not a charity with bottomless reserves. consider the health of this THIRD WORLD COUNTRY Zimbabwe's per capita GDP is $600, the third lowest in the world. The average wage is $253 a month—and that's for the 30 percent of the population who are employed. where is the return potential going to come from? there is no money here, your investment will never yield a return
Reply
2 points,27 days ago
Hi Scott,

Which is precisely why the Zimbabwean remittance market is one of the LARGEST per capita in the world, and why we are leveraging Dash payment rails to implement Kuvacash with inbound remittances and give a far better option to them to receive money and trade.

Have you watched our recent video? It explains the market, the problem and the business model in detail.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,27 days ago
Regarding the Open Source initiative, the below links don't seem to work anymore:

https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ-sample-app

https://bintray.com/kuvabase/maven/bwcj

https://github.com/kuvabase/Kuvabase-BWCJ

Is there a reason why?
Reply
1 point,27 days ago
Hi ichigo,

These had to be republished, also I cannot post updates on DN as I have been blocked. Should be up in a day again!

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-1 point,25 days ago
Hi ichigo13,

All links are live now.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
8 points,28 days ago
After doing some research, I must admit I don't understand what kind of legal entity Kuvacash actually is.
Drako answered this on the former proposal:

"note that there is no equity held by anyone (other than temporarily in trust) for Kuvacash - we are a new kind of digital business and are establishing in quite a different way."

According to Drako, the only incentives for the team and the voting MNOs are the "Utility Notes".
Those are describe here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GAFuie9PYMJuLdWBsnbPVlNQWGT5NlnCudO8ATemaU8/edit

Quote:
"Are Utility Notes a kind of security or ‘investment’ in Kuvacash?
No, they are not. Measures and processes have been taken to ensure that in their acquisition and distribution, that similar to Dash, they are not considered or intended to be a security. They may have a variable price since they are a publicly available cryptocurrency, but they are not used to distribute any dividend, profit or cash flow."

So who gets the future profits, who owns Kuva, on whose name are the bank accounts and how does such a node incentivize anyone?
Reply
4 points,28 days ago
Good luck getting a straight answer on that...

Walter
Reply
1 point,28 days ago
Hi Walters,

See above for an answer in more detail.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
0 points,28 days ago
Hi Macno,

There are several entities now which are held in trust until the full legal structure is established for Kuva.

The primary one is One Kuva LLC in Nevis and Two Kuva in the UK. There is also the regulated licensee Kuvha Sanchez in Zimbabwe which needs to be owned by a Zimbabwean national - it is James who personally holds 100% of this entity.

The equity in the other companies is held by myself personally until the structuring of the trust is completed and we can pass the equity into the trust itself.

We can’t fully discuss Utility Notes at present - mainly because a lot of regulatory precedent is being set by the SEC right now, and we are waiting for it to settle before we decide how the distribution will be implemented.

Regarding bank accounts, we have our partners, these have been verified by Dashwatch - for many commercial reasons we can’t disclose all detail of our banking.

Kuvacash is being set up as a new kind of digital business. That is all we can say - we will not be taking profits from the business, but are using any and all surplus cashflow to grow Kuvacash. There are other ways for us to receive incentive and as above, we’re executing this through Utility Notes.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
5 points,27 days ago
Could an Investor somehow invest in this construction or are you depending on charity/donations? If yes, how? Say I wanted to invest in Kuva (not donate money for nothing), how would that work?
I have a very hard time believing that Kuva is such a great business opportunity and still you completely depend on donations and have to wind down everything if you don't get paid this month by the DAO.
Reply
-1 point,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

We were not depending on donations, although we are receiving them from people who believe in the project.

We also are supported by Core who will contribute 24k usd should this proposal pass. And we have put in our own funds as well.

There is more than one way to fund the business - out key funding source has been the DAO, no reason to believe that this would be pulled out on the eve of our launch.

Please watch our video interview with Dashwatch, I cover this investment question in some detail. The short summary is that there is an incentive mismatch between an equity investor and our own aims which align with the DAO.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,27 days ago
Could you please give me a rough estimate for the timestamp in that 2 hour video where you explain that?
Reply
0 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

See 1:31:02 for the time stamp. Note the index is provided as well in the comments.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
3 points,27 days ago
Thanks. So basically you just don't want to give equity to other investors and prefer to wind everything down if you don't get funded by the DAO? As for the exclusivity: Is Dash Venture a party you might promise it to?
Reply
-4 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

Not quite. Dis you watch the video interview segment on this?If we look for other sources of capital at this juncture it will still be outside of provisioning equity, and it will take a lot of time. Aligning incentives between what we are trying to achieve and what an investor would want is difficult, especially if we are building this in Zimbabwe. Dash Ventures is also not an option at this point.

We will explore any and all options, but the opportunity as it stands today the team would have to be wound down if we don’t get funding for launch.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
6 points,27 days ago
Yes, I watched it, that's how I understood your answer. You did not explain how someone from outside who be able to invest. I understand it is easier for you to just get money from the DAO, without giving away the equity we have to trust you'll put into that future trust.
As for the exclusivity: The way I understood your answer in the interview, you don't see an entity on the DASH side that's representing the DAO in a way that satisfies you. I don't understand that, as that would be possible with Dash Ventures (and imho DCG would still be good enough). To me it looks like you just don't want to, which is strange, as you portray Kuva as a kind of Dash DAO.
Reply
-3 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

DCG is its own entity, funded by the DAO. Kuvacash is its own entity funded by the DAO. The incentives of the DAO (Dash ecosystem expansion and adoption) align with the core aims of Kuvacash.

We don’t give equity to anyone, not even ourselves - meantime it is held in trust until we completely sort out the UN infrastructure.

There is a million dollars worth of software waiting to be launched, and at least that amount with regards to partnerships and licenses we’ve built. I think the DAO will want to see that landed.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-8 points,27 days ago
Macno,

Just a question - do you want to see Kuvacash land in Zimbabwe?

Through Dash being burned endlessly on pizza and biscuits meetups, youtube videos and campaigns, pointless sponsorships and so on that the DAO has funded to little effect, it has I hope learned to be a bit more prudent...

On the other hand, Kuvacash is a real solution that just makes sense. It is ready to go, and the network has spent considerable money on getting it this far. We have also delivered everything on time and it looks great, right? So it’s probably a good idea to take the risk and launch it right?

Keen to know your perspective.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
7 points,27 days ago
I am not sure I want to see you land in Zimbabwe because I am not sure that what you are telling me is actually true. It's like Charlie Shrem asking me if I don't want that fancy credit card. Of course I'd like to see it.
At this stage, this month, for me, thus far, you don't have priority over other proposals.
To me, it makes no sense that you would prefer Kuva to die instead of giving potential investors a share of the equity or the supposed future returns.
DCG is its own entity, owned and controlled by the DAO, Kuva is not.
You did not say why you can't give DV the promise of Dash exclusivity, if DCG is not good enough.
Can you provide the details on that trust agreement on who holds the equity?
Reply
-5 points,27 days ago
Macno...

Perfect example of a kooky conspiracy.

I take it you did not DYOR on this, nor on the DACH proposal where I address it, and where my questions still remain unanswered.
Reply
0 points,24 days ago
Yep, we all strongly suspect Triptolemoose is Drako himself. Just follow the many crumbs left behind in language, cadence and manner of speech.
Reply
-5 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

Comparing Kuva to Shrem? Maybe, if you missed our 7 video updates, full attestation by Dashwatch, and a full demonstration video of our product we released last week...ready to operationalise and launch. Not to mention the Coindesk article, MoneyConf and the fact we have delivered everything perfectly and on-schedule. The equity is being held in trust, by us personally until we establish the actual trust.

Every other concern of yours has been covered ad nauseum.

Sorry Macno but I’m no longer going to engage with you. Nuff said, vote as you like.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
7 points,27 days ago
I am comparing YOU to Charlie Shrem.

The only reason I keep waisting my time with you is that I don't want to judge the whole Kuvacash project on your merits or the lack thereoff alone, but unfortunately you are the only one answering questions.

Your behavior raises so many red flags, I really don't understand why no one at Kuva is asking you to just shut up and let others handle investor relations and just watches you grow that minority of "kooky" Masternode Owners every single day.

DCG will be owned by the DAO through Dash Ventures, as far as I understood it, but for you it's not even good enough to receive your promise for Dash exclusivity. Yeah, right.
And sure, I will believe that Trust thing just because you tell me so.
Reply
-2 points,27 days ago
To also correct you on your post; DCG is its own entity, funded by the DAO, not controlled or owned by it.

No different to Kuvacash, also it’s own entity and also funded by the DAO.

Both are developing mechanisms for sharing incentives with MNO’s

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-7 points,27 days ago
Macno...

Drako and team have delivered everything promised so far.

Check your kooky conspiracies at the door.
Reply
6 points,27 days ago
You mean the theory that you removed the tags indicating your affiliation to Kuva on social media when you started concern trolling competing projects? It's even on the google cache of your Twitter account.
Reply
1 point,27 days ago
I don't know if I am going to be any help, but if I can paint a picture that helps MNOs understand what this project is about in a quick way, as I know they get overwhelmed, I sure as heck do. This is the vision of Kuvacash:

Zimbabwe people have no inflow of cash, no banking services (virtually, I'm going to be generalizing) and because the government have killed their fiat, they must use USD. Actual paper money. Paper money is so difficult to circulate, that the actual paper money that the country has been surviving off of is physically dirty to the point you can hardly tell what denomination it used to be! But the whole country is so cut off from the world, that these dollars are all they have and the clean ones actually have a premium price.

In this instance, the people are in survival mode. Almost nobody has a job, most just hustle on the street, and they all use these old USD bills. They can't import anything, because they can't get their dollars from here to there.

What is Kuvacash doing? Well, first of all, nobody trusts anything but dollars and Euros, but dollar is king there. They have heard of crypto, but that stuff.... they don't know if they can trust it. Kuva's plan is to create "kiosk banking services" where people can actually bank. These Kiosks are owned by individuals who are paid a fee for converting dollars to Dash and Dash to dollars. When they accept these dollars and convert them into Dash, the dollars which are old and dirty are taken back to the states and is replaced by fresh currency. So the people will be ecstatic to be able to get clean bills for their dirty bills.

Who cares, you ask, why does this help Dash adoption? Because all the money sent back and forth is sent via Dash. Not only that, anyone who wants to start a real business in Zimbabwe, will suddenly be able to buy supplies from anywhere in the world. Even so they may have physical bank notes, the paper dollar, there is no way for them to pay anyone except a person standing right in front of them. These people also have to protect their bank notes. It's like the days when people stuffed their money in their mattresses. They are at constant risk of being robbed. With Kuvacash, people can elect to keep their dollars in the Kuvacash system, denominated in USD OR Dash. Because any payments or transactions to anyone on the system is done in Dash, there will eventually be an incentive to anyone using remittances or international commerce to keep their funds in Dash because they save on the fees they pay to turn it into USD. But being able to take out cash at any time, earns the system the confidence of the people.

If Kuvacash can expand and make a difference in local and international remittances, it could be a game changer for Zimbabwe, and create, faster than any other project, a real use case for massive Dash adoption.

Kuvacash gave out tokens to those MNOs who voted on the initial project (yay or nay) and this was a way to pay the network back for helping, as this is a long term and expensive proposal. They have made partnerships with American banks and license in Zimbabwe, and done everything on the up and up as far as I can tell. Like the DCG, they're trying to come up with some sort of legal entity for Kuvacash, and they don't have that finished yet. Why do we give DCG the time to incorporate and not Kuva with far fewer resources?

Anyway, I hope this basic rundown of the project helps get people up to speed enough to watch the video. Thanks for reading :)
Reply
-3 points,27 days ago
Hi Tante,

Thanks again for stepping in and giving this rundown. I have also replied to your contact above - unfortunately am no longer on Dash Nation for a bit, the kooks got the better of me for the time being.

Note also that our approach is very different to what is done in Venezuela - we are leveraged AND grassroots. It is difficult to discuss the merits/issues of each without being called a troublemaker etc, however consider just these two questions - both solved by Kuvacash;

1. How is volatility hedged against, in a scalable way, so that merchants aren’t exposed to that risk?

2. How do people without bank accounts even get Dash, seamlessly and at fair prices?

Many people don’t want these questions about the Venezuela grassroots initiative to be blown open, and will attack me and by association, our project.

I have to speak about it because two of the key value propositions are that we DO solve these problems, and your contact above is aware of this. I also want to bring Kuvacash to Venezuela because it makes sense to do so, but that is after we get it right in Africa.

In any case, thanks for your support.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,27 days ago
Community member Aezel has asked me to help him access this forum so he could speak to the MNOs on this proposal I am merely giving him/her a quick platform. I don't know if what he is saying is 100% correct, I just know it must be frustrating for some community members to not have a way to talk to MNOs. Please consider his argument to continue funding Kuvacash::

Dear MNOs!
I'm only a small time investor without any voting power, however I hope you will take some time to read
my comment here because I am sincerely convinced that this vote could be one of the most important
moments of the Dash DAO. I see a potential in Kuvacash to become the foundation for a whole ecosystem
of services using the Dash network.
The reason is that when launched Kuvacash will allow everyone to send an amount in $, € or £ to a service
and have it converted and deposited as Dash in a user's wallet. This doesn't sound as such a big deal
because it seems like something many exchanges can do. But if you think about it that is not entirely true,
because those exchanges don’t allow you to send money to another person, phone number or username
and aren’t very easy to integrate with (or if they are easy to integrate with they aren’t aimed at end users).
Kuvacash itself will start as a remittance service but the on-ramp feature could make it the basis for so
much more. You want to hire a programmer in India? You can pay him in fiat via Kuvacash and he will be
paid in Dash. You want a Ghanaian artist to design a logo for you? You can pay her in fiat via Kuvacash and
she will be paid in Dash. You want to sponsor a charity in Haiti? You can send them fiat via Kuvacash and
they'll receive it directly in Dash.
See the pattern? In essence Kuvacash is a service that will allow for easy transfer of value across borders
at a very competitive rate. It can become the foundation for a whole ecosystem of border-crossing service
platforms that are easy to use with fiat and that utilize the Dash network. An ecosystem that could consist
of a Freelance platform, a digital content marketplace, a direct charity platform and many other things
more creative people than I will think of. Any service platform where someone can sell something nonphysical
for fiat and be paid in Dash, can be built with Kuvacash. This can possibly open up the world as a
marketplace for the first time for billions of people that currently have no access to banking facilities. And
I’m pretty sure that if you have a good idea that Draco will be more than happy to help you to make it
work with Kuvacash. (Because, although he can be a bit stubborn at times, he does get things done and is
always available to answer questions).
Also, Kuvacash doesn't intend to rely on the treasury forever. It has a revenue model charging transaction
fees over the fiat conversions. Based on the numbers I expect Kuvacash to be self-sufficient if it captures
about 10% of the Zimbabwean remittance market. But as I try to argue in this piece it has many other
possible revenue sources. I think it could become self-sufficient much quicker than many think.
Kuvacash is now owned by Masternodes via Utility Nodes and led by someone who has a provable stake
in Dash (his badge proves he has at least 1 Masternode). If we stop funding Kuvacash now, they will have
to look for outside investors. It is very likely that these investors will demand that Kuvacash will also
support other, more popular crypto's. We will lose our advantage.
If we develop and successfully launch Kuvacash, we don't need Coinbase. We will have our own Coinbase.
One that is Dash exclusive, supports InstantSend out of the box and will probably be one of the first to
support Evolution features. Because let’s face it, most on-off ramps and POS systems will likely not support
Evolution features for months after it has been released. Kuvacash also has a dedicated team behind it
that has been active and very responsive in the Dash community for over a year and will very likely be
happy to provide support to all reasonable community initiatives that want to use the infrastructure.
That’s why I ask of you, let’s make this work!
DISCLAIMER: This is my understanding of how Kuvacash works. I hope that Draco and the Kuvateam will
correct me where I’m wrong. Also, I’m a nobody really. I’m just really excited about a couple of ideas I
would like to develop, and they will become much simpler and more feasible with a service like Kuvacash.
THUS I REALLY HOPE YOU ALL VOTE YES! But if not, MNOs, I’ll still love you! I will just be disappointed for
a couple of days after the voting deadline. Finally, I want to thank you for reading this and wish you all a
very nice day!
Kind Regards,
Aezel
Reply
-1 point,27 days ago
Hi Tante,

This person understands Kuvacash, down to a ‘T’. Thanks for making the post - note that ideologically Kuvacash is different to what many early Dashers thought would emerge, and in Dash Nation I’m copping a lot of flak from these people, some of them from well back in the day, some of it very kooky stuff.

Note that I’ve unfortunately been targeted and banned from that forum by these ideologues, so apologies if I don’t get back to you on there until my account is reinstated.

Note also that our approach is very different to what is done in Venezuela - we are leveraged AND grassroots. It is difficult to discuss the merits/issues of each without being called a troublemaker etc, however consider just these two questions - both solved by Kuvacash;

1. How is volatility hedged against, in a scalable way, so that merchants aren’t exposed to that risk?

2. How do people without bank accounts even get Dash, seamlessly and at fair prices?

Many people don’t want these questions about the Venezuela grassroots initiative to be blown open, and will attack me and by association, our project.
I have to speak about it because two of the key value propositions are that we DO solve these problems, and your contact above is aware of this. I also want to bring Kuvacash to Venezuela because it makes sense to do so, but that is after we get it right in Africa.

In any case, thanks for your support.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
0 points,28 days ago
****IMPORTANT NOTICE AND STATEMENT****
**************

We have updated the video demo with some minor fixes/updates - see below.

https://youtu.be/GMrvH5nosM

This showcases the entire Kuvacash suite at launch, and also explains the business model and how it leads to the adoption of the Dash platform.

We aim to operationalise and launch a pilot of the software we have completed in Zimbabwe, should our proposal be funded. The DAO has so far allowed us to produce some of the most sophisticated software ever created by a proposal team, as well as a unique business structure and obtain the licenses required to launch. The software includes a back-office, treasury, exchange connectivity, mobile application that have a beautiful user experience allowing end-to-end remittances of funds.

Kuvacash and it’s CEO James Saruchera were the lead feature in a recent Coindesk article, this story being picked up by several publications.
Kuvacash is a sophisticated use case for Dash that has been created by an elite team over the last 9 months and paid for by the DAO.

It is important to note; if we are not funded this month, unless a major donor steps up, we will not be able to launch and will need to commence wind-down. We have delivered the solution on-time and on-budget, with over 1M USD paid for by the DAO to get us this far, as per our roadmap. For less than 1/10th of this cost, we can launch so we can get the insight to know how far Kuva can take Dash. Please think carefully and consider this. If we wind down, yes we have some nice software - but that isn’t everything required to get Kuvacash off the ground, it is very naive to believe that this can be paused and we retain the elements of the opportunity we have taken the better part of one year to put in place.

Some vocal detractors in the Dash community do not want to see Kuvacash launch. They are afraid we will prove them and their ideologies wrong and would rather that Kuvacash fell from the sky - along with what it means for Dash.
If we are able to capture just 2% of the remittance market in Zimbabwe alone (and this does not include other African countries that we are planning to expand into), we would be responsible for 10-20% of trading volume in Dash, and 98% of actual value transactions. This is how powerful the Kuvacash proposition is. Do you want to see this land? Compared to efforts made in other advocacy and PR proposals, Kuvacash is building a self-sustainable system.

Think of whether burning funds on pizza and soft drinks, meet-ups or advocacy/PR, all which are deep cost centres, not self-sustainable and rather pointless in a bear market, are a better or only option to drive adoption of Dash.
Kuvacash is a different kind of grassroots, one with a sharp head that can negotiate the kind of partnerships to put Dash on the map.
I realise there is a lot of activity in Venezuela and discussion about this - it has taken millions of dollars to just get 1k merchants and may cost millions more to get another 1k on top of this.

Although I applaud the efforts of those on the ground in Venezuela being paid to try an onboard merchants, as well as unpaid volunteers and champions - many merchants will ‘churn out’ when they discover that there is volatility in Dash that they cannot hedge. Kuvacash aims to move to Venezuela in due course, and solve these issues also

For the present proposal, note this; Kuvacash, with one of their partners can access over 1 million users and put Dash in as a necessary payment system for those users. With another partner, we can access 14k remitters and put in front of them a proposition that costs 1/4 what they are used to paying competitors. This is the power of The Kuvacash approach with Dash - please consider if you want to see us prove this approach over the next month or so.

Consider also if we are not funded, what people reading the Coindesk article - a key feature piece which was hopeful on Dash and led with James Saruchera and the Kuvacash proposition - might think. That finally, there is a real, relatable use case from Dash, an understandable proposition, with an elite team landing it. This is why the article was published. If they see that the DAO will pull the plug on such initiatives at the eve of launch, it is not a narrative that would bode well for Dash.
So do not let a few vocal detractors or even MNO’s with kooky ideologies sway you from what is truly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity - to land Dash as a money system in a country that needs it, with the right kind of services and user experience around it to make it work for anybody. It isn’t every day that a 37-year dictatorship ends in a country where the government has lost the ability to print fiat and the Dash platform powering Kuva is the perfect way to provide a money system to anyone with a mobile phone.

Please think carefully about what we have achieved so far and vote accordingly. Let’s make this happen!

Thanks,
Drako, James and Team Kuva

*****************
*****************
Reply
-4 points,27 days ago
****IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT****

While discussing differences between Kuvacash and the approach in Venezuela, a sensitive topic on Dash Nation, I was banned from that forum. It is not a comfortable conversation for people to have, because there is a lot of ‘positive news’ and ‘hope’ that can be spun from activity in that region. It’s no joy being a party grinch, and trying to argue in an echo-chamber with ideologues and kooks who are able to simply turn you off at will. But I love Dash and make no mistake - I’ll call out nonsense when I see it, no matter the consequences.

Many people would like to believe that the Venezuela efforts are leading to ‘Mass adoption’ however this is far from the truth. 1k merchants that have been built through fragmented efforts and with over $1M in funding over the last few years is NOT mass adoption, nor is it a path to mass adoption. Venezuela has a problem, sure, but so does Dash in Venezuela.

The efforts being made in Venezuela are laudable, but are a extremely expensive and unsustainable way to try to expand Dash’s usage - vendors and merchants don’t want ‘the best of the worst’ - ie to take currency risk, no matter if currently the Bolivar is experiencing hyperinflation. They want simple solutions to get paid and pay their suppliers, and they are in the business of making margin on sales, not taking on volatility risk. And they need people out there with money to spend!

Our approach is very different to what is done in Venezuela - we are leveraged AND grassroots. It is difficult to discuss the merits/issues of each without being called a troublemaker etc and ruining everyone’s happy feelings and illusions, however consider just these two questions - both solved by Kuvacash;

1. How is volatility hedged against, in a scalable way, so that merchants aren’t exposed to that risk?

2. How do people without bank accounts even get Dash to spend, seamlessly and at fair prices?

There are many more questions as well - for example, what is the churn rate for merchants (ones who accepted Dash but no longer accept it) and what is the average transaction volume and value per merchant?

Many people don’t want these questions about the Venezuela grassroots initiative to be blown open, and will attack me and by association, our project.

I have to speak about it because two of the key value propositions are that we DO solve these problems with a different approach. Kuva also want to bring Kuvacash to Venezuela because it makes sense to do so, and solves everything needed to get persistent Dash adoption there, but that is after we get it right in Africa.

In any case, thank you to our supporters, and if you want to see a different and better approach, one that has been thought out by experts, insight gathered, with sophisticated software built to support it, and a team to lead operations and get us to millions of users, then please vote and let us launch this, no matter how abrasive the feeling might be that if this approach does indeed work, then the current Venezuela initiatives may need to be re-thought...

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
7 points,27 days ago
Quote from Drako -

“While discussing differences between Kuvacash and the approach in Venezuela, a sensitive topic on Dash Nation, I was banned from that forum. It is not a comfortable conversation for people to have, because there is a lot of ‘positive news’ and ‘hope’ that can be spun from activity in that region. It’s no joy being a party grinch, and trying to argue in an echo-chamber with ideologues and kooks who are able to simply turn you off at will. But I love Dash and make no mistake - I’ll call out nonsense when I see it, no matter the consequences.”

Dash Nation-moderated forums have clearly defined codes of conduct. An individual who is found to be in continued violation of these rules (disrespecting other members, speculation as fact, badgering another member, solicitation via DM) is given a warning, a final warning, and a 48 hour ban. Upon return, the individual gets one final warning, followed by a permanent ban.

In your case, Drako, you repeatedly violated the rules of the forum, and you faced a 48 hour ban because of it. Not because we disagreed with you, not because of any members of my moderation team, not because we don’t like you, not because we’re biased, not because anyone has an agenda, but because you violated the rules of the forum multiple times.

Taking accountability for one’s own actions and not blaming anyone else for the situation they find themselves in is a mark of a mature person, and upon your return to Dash Nation on Discord, I would hope you would learn from the ban and abide by the posted rules.

Try to be nice to the “ideologues and kooks” that have so much influence on whether or not you get funded...
Reply
-5 points,27 days ago
Hi Tao,

Sorry but again - I'll call out the nonsense posted by the (noisy) minority of ideologues and kooks every time, out of respect for the MAJORITY of masternodes here that hold their Dash investment and have some hope that at least a few people with a critical understanding of business have their backs.

You were roped in on the ban, through no fault of your own excepting that you do not pay much attention to detail. I understand that Dash Nation is your project, it is not a community-owned forum - hence you are free to run it as you desire.

My mistake is that I used Dash Nation as a place for active debate and sharing of ideas. I spent time to try and provide points of view that could add benefit to Dash as a whole. I spoiled some happy feelings in there and got banned, simple as that.

I can rub certain people the wrong way, but some people need to be rubbed the wrong way, if they are presenting ideas that are clearly wrong and I feel MN's need to see another path forward.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
6 points,27 days ago
@James:
Can you somehow fire Drako? He is ruining your chances at getting funded with his anti-MNO paranoia and repeated attacks on competing projects.
Reply
-4 points,27 days ago
@Macno

If it’s not possible to discuss uncomfortable truths with the community, then there is no chance for Dash. What is being called out here is the truth, and our apologies if it appears abrasive.

Just so you know both myself and James are completely aligned with this thinking, and especially with regards to Venezuela. It is what led us to understand how Kuvacash has to work.

It would pay to consider what is being said here a lot more deeply than appears you have done. This is an approach that de-risks many aspects of bringing Dash in to a country that needs it, while respecting the needs of the actual users.

Thanks,
Drank and James
Reply
7 points,27 days ago
I used to trust you guys and take your words for granted. My bad.
What changed my attitude is Drakos arrogant and hostile behavior.
How does it help to call your potential fianciers/donators "kooks"? Do you think you will change anyones mind to the positive? I observe the opposite, but maybe I have also turned into a kooky ideological detractor who does not see the light of Drakos genius.
So far your operation looks like a joke to me as you depend completely on free money for your oh so brilliant and potentially profitable lifetime opportunity of a company (or whatever it actually is), but I keep digging and might change my mind, but certainly not because of both of you, if you are so aligned, but because fellow Masternode owners I actually do trust and respect seem to be very keen on funding you.
Reply
-5 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

I'm sorry you find our approach abrasive - have you watched the latest demonstration video? That is likely the reason that your fellow masternode owners are interested in seeing what we have launch, because it is actually brilliant and a unique execution of a money system fully based on the Dash Core platform. If you have not sat through it, please do.

Do you think that we'd have the partnerships and alliances in both Zimbabwe and the UK, that we would be presenting to the Office of the President, that we would have obtained licenses to operate, if there wasn't a bit of the maverick approach going on? We walk the uncomfortable line, and we get it done.

In addition to this, Kuvacash with the assistance of Core and Wachsman secured a major feature article on Coindesk (something Dash Force News was unable to do for years and a ton of funding and, for the record, was NOT involved in securing).

Hope you can see this and support the project, it isn't arrogance, it's reality. Please have a real think and vote with your pocket without letting anyone pull the wool over your eyes.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-5 points,27 days ago
Hi Macno,

I'm sorry you find our approach abrasive - have you watched the latest demonstration video? That is likely the reason that your fellow masternode owners are interested in seeing what we have launch, because it is actually brilliant and a uniq

Do you think that we'd have the partnerships and alliances in both Zimbabwe and the UK, that we would be presenting to the Office of the President, that we would have obtained licenses to operate, if there wasn't a bit of maverick going on?

Hope you can see this and support the project, it isn't arrogance, it's reality. Have a real think and vote with your pocket.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-2 points,27 days ago
Apologies, this was a half-created post...see above from Kuvateam for full post.
Reply
0 points,27 days ago
Oops autocorrect - Drako and James!
Reply
0 points,29 days ago
***UPDATED KUVACASH DEMONSTRATION VIDEO***

We have updated the video demo with some minor changes/fixes - see link below:

https://youtu.be/GMrvH5nosMo

This showcases the full Kuvacash software suite along with the Dash integration showing how payments propagate from an inbound remittance through to the wallet, payment and receiving of Dash and finally cash-out to USD.

Please let us know if you have any questions! The software is now ready to operationalise and launch in Zimbabwe, thanks to the DAO and supporters of Kuvacash and Dash!

Thanks,
Drako
***********+
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
I have been thinking about the future of blockchain projects vs the traditional financial sector. The idea with this project is sold as an intermediate step towards adopting crypto. But I do not see any such future or reason for them to do so given they hold us-dollars in their kuva-account. This project only enables dash on a transmission layer, not on an end user layer because: They will pay with kuvaapp-dollars for their busfares/shopping etc, great, BUT the end recipiant will still receive dollars and not dash even though dash is used as a transmission layer. It will NOT increase the value of dash since users will most likely choose to hold dollars since that is what they know. The project does not promote direct blockchain/dash usage, which is what we should be doing, not supporting the extension and longlivety of the debt-based economy. I think it is the wrong approach and I am opposed to it for the reasons stated, even thogh the app might seem great and it will serve the people in the traditional FIAT way it will not bring them the freedom they can and should have with open free cryptosolutions. They need to learn about blockchain and dash and use that and hold that, not hold fiat. It seems also this project is NOT safe for the end user as promoted, if kuvacash goes down, as most users will hold DOLLARS those dollars will BE GONE for the end user because it is still a CENTRALIZED solution representing the dollars they hold. And other dash wallets cannot pay for bus-rides etc using their dash wallet. No. It does not help adoption of dash, rather the opposite, forget it, in essense its like a mobile app for an exchange/bank with an integrated dash wallet noone will use (except in some remittance cases), and why do you need to 'settle' the transaction on the blockchain? There is not need for that since you hold all the fiat, you can just make a database entry changing the value of the wallets from one user to another unless doing remittances. Its horrible.. scrap it, it is the opposite of what the principles the crypto and blockchain community is trying to acheive.
Reply
4 points,29 days ago
To bad, you're really don't get why this is a great project. This really sucks.
KuvaCash can do what Bitpay did for bitcoin, but without the constraint of 1mb blocks.
This well worth that investment.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Hi Reasonably,

I feel you misunderstand our proposition, let me try to explain again.

Note that the reason we built a service layer over Dash is so it can be made useful to people on the ground.

We have explained in detail why exactly raw Dash cannot be used by merchants, and that people require off-ramp to USD or they won’t even consider the long-term use of it.

Our core value storage and payment rails are all in Dash. People can receive Dash or send Dash anywhere - you are not limited to the Kuvacash app. On top of this, the platform allows people from overseas to send funds to a user in a country using their bank account to fund the transaction, and the recipient user can store those funds in Dash - this is the safest way for them - or they can cash out to USD.

Dash needs this service layer to enable these use cases, and we have been paid by the network to get this work completed. We are now at the point of launch and I hope you can support us to land Dash in a country that actually needs it.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
-2 points,1 month ago
over $500K has been flushed down the toilet on this ",middleman" project. it has yielded nothing for the network. this guy needs to go away and stop looking for endless handouts.
Reply
6 points,1 month ago
Is this the last time Kuva will be asking for money and if not, how much will be asked in the future?
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Hi Macno,

If the launch is a success, yes we will return to the network for further funding as per our financial plan. In this case we’d want to get the solution to scale as soon as possible.

We believe the network will be ok to fund limited growth activities until we are cash flow positive, and/or if the insight shows we can achieve positive margins. We will limit our funding to sustainable levels, but until launch is completed we won’t know what the exact amount will be.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
Do you know what the minimum monthly USD amount you will have to ask if you have no cash flow at all?
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
Hi Macno,

Minimum is ~140k usd per month.

We’d only ask this if the launch is successful, as we anticipate that the network will be ok with funding us in that case - we would be making history, for real.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,28 days ago
An opportunity to spend 140k USD per month doesn't really sound like success to me.
Reply
6 points,1 month ago
Thanks for the video and trying to scale down cost for now. You got my votes.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Hi Greensheep,

Thank you for your support and votes!

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
6 points,1 month ago
Great work - your videos show that you are focused not only on the technological part but also organizational, without which there is probably no chance for a real adoption of cryptocurrencies on a large scale. Apart from this, I think that the adoption will begin in countries where people are forced to look for an alternative working monetary system, like Zimbabwe or Venezuela, so I agree with others: you are making history.

I wish you that the project will receive funding (I can not imagine that at this stage would happen otherwise) and of course that the Dash/USD exchange rate would be over 170$, which you assumed in your budget calculations.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Hi Bertrand,

Thank you very much for the kind words and let me say I also very much appreciate your work as well (I use DMT daily).

We have some stopgap funding from Core (should the proposal pass) and also from anonymous donors that allows us some flexibility, so we are still within our financial operating envelope.

In any case thank you for your support!

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
***IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT***

The Kuvacash team worked directly with Wachsman PR to secure a prominent and in-depth Coindesk article written by Leigh Cuen.

https://www.coindesk.com/dash-crypto-venezuela-zimbabwe/

This article is a first for Dash. It is because of the power of the DAO that we can land propositions like Kuvacash that have real-world impact. Thank you to all of our supporters who have helped us to make this happen! We are making history now.

Sincerely,
James, Drako, Steve, Judy and Spiro - and the rest of us here at Team Kuva
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
I am sure you will apply the same ethical standards you demand from others and post a clarification on who actually secured that article.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Macno,

For the record the engagement with Coindesk was initiated by Core in June who then pulled us in via Wachsman, who then got James in for the interview.

These are the only organisations we engaged with to do this and who actively support the Kuvacash initiative.

Statement from Core:

“I think this a case of many people working towards the same goal. Wachsman organised an interview for Ryan with Leigh in early June. He was able to pick her interest in some areas and she asked for a lot of data on Zim and Venezuela. After that she asked to interview James.” Fernando (DCG)

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
8 points,1 month ago
This is like starting a banking system in Zimbabwe that will undoubtedly spread throughout Africa. Think of the economy that will spring up from millions of people suddenly being able to start real businesses, do international trade, etc... Kuvacash people have really done their homework on this project. Lets keep the momentum going! They've gotten all the partnerships and licences required for functioning above ground.

Now you might ask why are we funding a centralized service that charges fees? The reason is multifold. This is a service that allows normal folk to enter and exit the system fluidly. This is required for people to trust using crypto. The fees are required to pay for the people that will work for the system (as an independent contractor) This whole project may single handedly grease the wheels of commerce in East Africa, maybe speedily to West Africa, why not? If this works, in 10 years, we could have all of Africa using Dash. OK, I'm a bit enthusiastic, but dang these guys have an amazing project going,, lets help them launch in September, please vote yes!!!
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
This will revolutionize the Dash ecosystem in Africa, i just cannot wait to see this passing and see Kuva expanding their work to Nigeria. We just finished our Dashcart.app mobile application that allows an individual to send Dash to friends or family and they will receive Fiat and also allows payment of electrical bills, TV subscription, Giftcards, Tax, mobile top us and we are working on a version 3.2 that will allows dash users to pay for flight tickets, hotel bills, car hire and also order for UBER TAXI with Kuvacash we will achieve more and will be able to talk to more investors to invest their money in Dash and also be able to send to friends and family or spend for day to day activities. A yes for this proposal will be a win- win.

Thank you Max yoga and the entire team.

Ogunseye Oluwajuwon Micheal (DashSquard)
Reply
7 points,1 month ago
I am surprised this has received so many no votes. After all the cash given to adverts and meetups etc to decide to downvote this very real and very obviously hard-working initiative seems to be madness to me. In fact, I am worried that the "trolls" theory, whereby people who want dash to fail actually hold masternodes might be right. However, it is what it is, all I can do is vote yes and hope for the best.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
The video about the project is just one day old, most MNO where very skeptical up until that point . If you know MNO that have not seen it yet just let them know
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
So what are you plans for KuvaCash if funding is not approved? Is the project completely dead going forward or will there be a KuvaCash ICO?

Will the project be dead if funding is not approved? A simple yes or no answer would suffice.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Hi Robbydash,

We will need to stop launch, yes.

From there would have to consider all our options, but it would mean that meantime Kuva would be shelved.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
I have read most of the arguments for and against this proposal both here and on Dash Nation. It seems to me that much of the negative sentiment boils down the the idea that in these budget-restrained times we should concentrate our resources on First World projects because "that's where the money is". The counter argument is that we should focus on markets such as Zimbabwe and Venezuela because "that's where the need is". In my opinion "need" takes precedence and the money will follow. I think this is a fantastic chance to make history and establish Dash with a real world use case that has the potential to disrupt remittances and payments. If this works out Dash could get huge mainstream media attention. I think we would be crazy to abandon the project having come so far already. I am voting yes.
Reply
3 points,29 days ago
I think you are grossly misrepresenting the "negative sentiment." These guys have already been given an obscene amount of money and are telling us they need a lot more to even have a chance at success. Meanwhile, the teams in Venezuela are getting a ton accomplished for a tiny fraction of the cost. You have to draw the line somewhere, and if budget constraints force us to choose between Venezuela and Kuva the choice is obvious to me.
Reply
0 points,27 days ago
Hi Zedhead,

We’re a completely different level to what is happening in VZ as an attempt to gain adoption.

VZ has cost millions and has yielded approx 1k merchants, although this is arguably less if you consider churn. There will likely be another million spent for the next 1k merchants.

Read my comment above on this - a single partner of ours leads to being put in front of 14k remitters, or a second partner let’s us access over one milllion consumers and with an easy way for them to benefit from the Dash platform and make payments (Dash made intrinsically available in the process).

Kuvacash is a business at a high level, and shows there is more than one way to build adoption in a leveraged way.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
After watching the demonstration (the first real good one after a year of dev?) I can say that this team indeed has really made the money invested worth it in terms of product development, agreements with partners and so forth. It is a job well done and an amazing oppertunity for the people in zimbabwe and across africa. That beeing said, what I am not so happy about is the non existing agreements with the dash new zeeland trust for example. Make no mistake, dash paid for this development so why would they accept anything less? Makes no sense from a business perspective. Kuvacash makes it more easy to get access to traditional finance but also to dash. Its a hybrid, a compromise if you will. What I would like to see is dash logos combined with kuvacash and also dash beeing accepted at every place where kuva is accepted so that people with normal dash wallets also can pay for their bus-rides etc. Charging 3.99% for remittance, what if they use the advanced option and sends dash directly? In fact this high fee might encourage users to do just that... hopefully also people will see later that the dash ventures will reinvest into dash making it more valuable and hence having some backing other than just the token itself making choosing dash a more viable and better option

I have changed my votes to Yes, but I would like more written agreements between kuvacash and dash legal structure / dash trust or dash coregroup inc, at least in the terms of protecting blockchain options from additional fees, it should be free to use other than the network fees keeping it as an attractive option to fiat, that also goes for the change between fiat and blockchain tokens, fees should be very low there, as low as possible.

Thank you for your efforts and for giving more choice/freedom to the people of zim.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Hi reasonably,

Thank you for the support and your votes. Kuvacash is a separate entity from the DCG trust and it’s own DAO organisation.
We do work with DCG who support our strategic initiative, and we will share back to the community with our OSS efforts. In particular it is our intention to share designs, UX and insight that can inform Evolution development.

We will also allow Dash to be directly sent to users for free, this is part of the wallet roadmap - the 3.99% is for outbound. Inbound target cost will be less than 1% - note that this for sending cash from a bank account to Kuva, not for Dash transfers. These will always be network-cost only.

To clarify; people can send Dash directly, for free, from anywhere in the world and from any Dash wallet to anyone using the Kuvacash wallet.

Thanks again for the support, we cannot wait to get this landed next month!

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
And the outbound dashtransfers from kuvacash will also be network fee only? This is as to protect the blockchain philosophy to provide people with a free and open access. That would further increase the value of dash, and make it more attractive to use and hold, basically benefiting everybody using it.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Hi reasonably,

That is correct.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
8 points,1 month ago
Fantastic job on the demo video. Those of us who actually bothered to keep up with previous updates already knew most of the info in it, but seeing it all laid out as a contiguous, functioning system was very confidence-inspiring.

The value of this project lies in establishing a real-world use case for regular, persistent, active use of the Dash blockchain and associated technologies. The reason this is important is achieving widespread, persistent, active use of the blockchain is essential to decoupling from the volatility of the speculative cryptocurrency market and obtaining a greater degree of stability for use as a currency and payment platform. The aggregate effect of achieving stability and regular use is not only an increase in value of Dash, but in building confidence by investors and adopters in the first world and elsewhere for whom the risks associated with cryptocurrency and its volatility are mitigated..

The secondary value of this project is that unlike grassroots efforts which require the slow, gradual building of communities and the continual, long-term funding and subsidy of these efforts in their entirety, KuvaCash can--if successful--relatively quickly become not only self-sufficient but lucrative, such that its model can be transplanted in to other markets not only in Africa but potentially other places as well, and because most of the development will have already been funded by Dash and KuvaCash will increasingly be able to fund its own continued development, there will hypothetically only be a greater and greater benefit rather than a greater and greater draw/demand on the treasury once/if it reaches that stage.

In order to reach that stage, KuvaCash needs to complete their pilot. In order to complete their pilot, they need to be funded to that point. If the pilot is unsuccessful, then we'll know that this model is not as effective as other methods for the expansion of Dash and that no further funding is required. If it is successful, then we have an enormous opportunity to achieve many, many goals all in one fell swoop.

This project needs to be funded. It's the best shot we have at quickly achieving widespread adoption and use right now without spending millions more on grassroots efforts elsewhere which will take much longer.
Reply
9 points,1 month ago
***ANNOUNCEMENT - KUVACASH SOFTWARE DEMONSTRATION VIDEO***
We have been working this week to compile a video demonstration of the Kuvacash software suite and explain the business model for Kuvacash at launch. Please find the video link below, and feel free to post us any questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grOonRsDYU

The video shows the full Kuvacash solution for launch, from the remittance web-applications to the Kuva Wallet through to cash-out/exchange as well as Agent functions and some of our back-office. All this software is live and functional we are showing the latest state of our systems running on production hardware. There is some UI update work that is pending and will be done prior to launch.

A huge thanks to Steve, Spiro and Zac for compiling the demonstration in such a short time, also to Gethen and Peyton for helping to advise the narrative. To all our supporters, a huge thanks for helping us to get Kuvacash up and running and we hope you enjoy the video.

Thanks,
Drako and Team Kuva
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
First of wow, the UI and GUI seem topnotch, do I will have to view it again a couple of more times, it's allot information to process all at once. Hopefully 10 days will proof to be enough time for MNO to analyse this video, assuming they desire to analyse if there are any fault in the processes. If not I don't see why people shouldn't change their votes to YES, or ask additional question right now. Keeping them on no without proper reason give way simply the incorrect and unprofessional way of dealing with KuvaCash.

At any-rate you now just surpassed ALT36 with this video, when it come to clarity on what you have been creating with the Dash-treasury funds. ALT36 has never had this amount of scrutiny direct at them, I see no reason why you NOW shouldn't deserve fair less scurrility than ALT36, has received up until now.

Question :
Is it possible for KuvaCash users to transfer Dash outside their KuvaCash wallet to a regular Dash wallet ? or is Cashing out to physical USD the only way they can have full control over their funds.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Hi A_node_to_a_master,

Thank you very much for your kind words and support.

Regarding your question, yes it will indeed be possible for users to transfer Dash to any other wallet outside the network. For this, they would pay network fees only.
Note also that the wallet is HD and users will be able to transfer their entire balance to a non-Kuva wallet at any time.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Who are the contemptible cowards down-voting the constructive discourse in here? This system is being abused by inarticulate, tantrum-throwing children. How did you losers manage to fall arse-backwards into masternode ownership?
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
To Voluntary, attack the argument, not the people.

Ahem....having said that, if they just vote no and don't participate, that doesn't give you much to work with does it? Also note that a number of us are convinced we have somewhere between 80 and 150'ish Masternodes owned and operated by trolls. They may have been purchased by some of our competitors back when MN's were cheap so they could have some leverage within the Dash community.

But regardless of that theory, if you (and I) disagree with the NO votes, we just have to rally the community and outvote them. Plenty of time left for that.

solarguy
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
They have met their milestones. They have given reports faithfully. They have made substantive changes in light of the tight budget this month. They are ready for the launch of the pilot project.

My "mile high" perspective is, for the price of two nice cars (per month x 3 months) we can find out with certainty if we can meaningfully help the economy of a nation the size of Zimbabwe. This does not strike me as a bad risk/reward ratio at all.

Voting yes, solarguy
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
It's nice to see something tangible in the form of a working demo. There can be no doubts that the technical execution and development work has been done to a high standard based on the contents in the demo. Congrats on that, it's a credit to the Kuva team.

One question I do have is with regards to the USD Cashout function. Could you go deeper into the economics of this feature and how you see such a model working in the real world please? I'm particularly interested in understanding how you will be able to facilitate cash-outs for a small fee which is much lower than market rates for other cash-out services in Zimbabwe currently.

Thanks

Walter
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

Thanks for the kind comments, yes it has been quite a mission to get this far and glad you like it.

Regarding the USD cash-out process competitiveness. We have a model for cash replenishment and provisioning that is bank-less and is considerably lower cost than bank-based alternatives. Net, from all flows (inbound and outbound +cash-out) we are capturing 5% of value (4% out and 1% in).

In addition to this, our exchange (fiat) partners allow us to have extremely low cost access to deliverable forex. I have implemented their solution in the past for another online deliverable foreign currency exchange that I developed with my business partner back in 2012 - this was for b2b payments (currencycart.com) and so they gave us excellent pricing.

Obviously the commercial rates we get are under NDA but, and I am happy for Dashwatch to take a look and attest that they are extremely low, and in line with a sustainable operating model.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
My concern isn't the cost of deliverable FX, it's more to do with the sustainability of providing physical USD cash (either from your collection points or via courier) at considerably below current market rates. Market rates are usually that for a good reason, so if you are anywhere near as competitive as you are suggesting(?) then you are going to be overwhelmed with business (not a bad thing intrinsically), but it is if your model doesn't scale and you are making a loss on each USD cash out transaction.

I understand there are certain sensitivities around your model and you probably don't want to publicise exactly how you've figured out something that nobody else has with regards to delivery of USD cash in Zim, however, it would be useful for us MNOs to have an idea of how you're going to do profitably whilst charging well below market rates? As well as reassurances that the Dash DAO isn't going to be subsidising such activity as some sort of 'loss leader'?

Thanks

Walter
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

Deliverable fx is part of our model since outbound payments are done non-cash.

We can’t disclose the details, what I have written above will need to suffice.

It is not a loss leader in either direction for us, and 5% net gives us plenty of headroom in case we get further competition.

Remittances is our launch proposition. That said, everything we have planned, from inbound remittances, usd cash provisioning/exchange through to merchant services will have an adequate gross profit margin for us to develop a sustainable business with.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
I get all that about the non-cash USD model and remittances, it's pretty straight forward and I can see how you make a sustainable profit margin from it.

What I don't understand is the Cash-out element. This is because delivery of physical USD Cash is a completely different ball game to non-cash remittance and involves far higher costs (as we see in all countries, especially the USA cannabis market for example) due to logistics, security, general cash handling, availability of cash (especially in places like Zim). So I'm trying to understand how Kuva can substantially undercut the competition in a very competitive commodity market such as this?

I'm only asking because I can see Kuva being inundated with USD remittances for physical Cash delivery if you are far cheaper than anyone else in Zim. That may not be a good thing if fulfilment is a lot more costly than you've estimated, and then you start letting customers down and running up losses etc.

I'm not 'concern trolling' again - as you like to put it - I, like many other MNOs are just trying to understand how this business is going to make money, and as it stands we have nothing to go on other than your word that you've got your numbers right. Your 5% net is plausible for the non-cash market, there is no question mark there... but I'm yet to be convinced that you're going to be able to offer a sustainable physical USD cash-out service on that kind of margin.

This may sound trivial but a miscalculation like that could cause you all sorts of problems as you scale this up.

Walter
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

The Kuvacash model is easily viable with the suppliers we have on board.

The point of the pilot is to tune our operating model with real users, and get to insight regarding our realises net margins.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
6 points,1 month ago
Could your team give us MNOs a list of clear targets that we can expect you have hit after 3 months?
Reply
-1 point,1 month ago
Hi quantumexplorer,

Sure -
Some context first; we aim to be in operational readiness for launch within the 1st month (Sept) in order to onboard pre-pilot customers. These will be friends, family and close associates since we'll provide concierge for them for any issues they may have and feed back issues to the various teams to resolve. As you know, when putting a brand new service live there will very likely be operational issues that we will have to fix, tweak, refactor - not just the software (web apps and mobile apps for wallet users, remittance agents), but also our cash replenishment, agent training and various other back-office processes.

There will be no less than 10 people on-boarded and using the service end-to-end for us to do this.

Between Oct-Nov 2018, depending on fixes and adjustments we need to implement, our target is to scale using member-get-member (limited user invites) to approximately 100-250 users. But the key metric is not number of users - it is to ensure we get to a point where we have scalable operations in place, and whatever users of the service we do have on board, love using Kuvacash, start to regularly use it, and are happy with pricing, allowing us to work out our projected margins.

If we have achieved that, we'll be ready for either opening further premises, working with partners on a trial basis (or, potentially testing mobile agents). Because until we get to market with launch, there are a lot of unknowns that the pilot gives us insight into, and this insight is only possible to get with a pilot and real users. We anticipate that the next phase in Jan/Feb would be the public pilot, with MGM and outreach to get us to around 1K users, but it all depends on the success of the pilot launch.

Hope that answers your question -

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
7 points,1 month ago
I've really been on the fence here, I really want Dash to expand into various countries where bad monetary policy has left people hurting.

But I'm sorry, this answer just isn't cutting it for ~ 300k USD. I would like clear, tangible deliverables that aren't open to subjectivity in order to be able to judge your project in 3 months from now if you pass this funding cycle. I don't find your answer succinct. What I read is that you attribute succeeding to 250 users. Scaling is already there when you are using the Dash blockchain, and really scaling to less than 100k users isn't that hard even if you are using your own non-blockchain based services.

In the end I want us to fund projects that will benefit Dash the most. Kuva has been going on for a very long time now. If after over a year we haven't seen 1 thing that is of benefit to Dash, and all you are promising for 3 months from now is 250 users and scalable operations don't you think something is wrong? I really hope I'm misunderstanding something. I have supported this project in the past but when I read this proposal and your answer just now I really feel like it isn't living up to my expectations.
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
It sounds like to me like the purpose of the pilot is to test the system and how it works with a smaller user base before opening it up to the general public to ensure that they have a functional system. It's not meant to acquire market share, but as a quality assurance check. I don't think there's any doubt that Dash can scale, that's been proven with the ASU testing as well as our own impromptu "stress tests." The purpose of this is to ensure that the platform and the organization and all its partners (agents, couriers, small business people using their phones as PoS devices, etc) can function properly and to mitigate some of those unforeseen quirks, bugs, and non-Dash components are properly configured and calibrated for a full-scale launch.

I think everyone here has confidence in the Dash side of things to perform technically--and from the demo probably the technical side of the Kuva platform as well--but there are a lot of moving pieces to this project that rely on human actors and their performance that have to be nailed down and ensured to be working properly in a smaller scale before you try to onboard an entire city->nation.

Of course we definitely do need some sort of objective or at least measurable metric by which we can determine whether or not the initial pilot was a success and whether or not to move ahead with funding a large-scale launch, and that point is well taken, but it sounds like you're misunderstanding the purpose of the pilot. I'm sure Kuva would be willing to publish some of the metrics like number of transactions, how much money entered the network via USD, total amount entering Zimbabwe in remittances, most used features, etc. It's not about the number of users but how those users behave and how they use the platform and to what extent that will be the valuable data gleaned from this project. That allows them to make projections on what they can expect when they open the project up all the way.
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2 points,1 month ago
@quantumexplorer Are you just as eager to de-fund Dash Core for the amount of time and treasury funds taken to deliver Evolution? Because this kind of ambitious software and service development doesn't just happen without an incredible amount of planning and work. This negative mno attitude being shown toward Kuvacash shows such a failure to grasp the realities of project development. Since when did it become prudent to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?
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2 points,1 month ago
@voluntary I don't think it's negative what I'm asking for, I really wanted this project to succeed, however I'm worried that nothing will ever come of it and want reassurances. When we will be paying another 300K usd to build a platform that the Dash network does not own and has no legal control over don't you think we should do our due diligence?
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1 point,1 month ago
Hi quantumexplorer,

With respect, I think you are not looking at this at the right way, with a business eye.

This is a pilot, and if we can restrict to even 50 users that love and use the service multiple times a week, we have a unicorn on our hands. The success of the pilot is not based on per-user acquisition metrics.

The Dash network has, as per our plan, paid for the project to get to this point, and we have delivered on-schedule and on-budget - it would be very odd if we did not launch now.

There isn’t a point bullet list metric for the pilot. For me to give you one would not be respectful or genuine. But we know that we will quantitively know if the project will succeed following the pilot, in a lot of detail, that I can promise.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
I just watched your demo. I have really been on the fence and have gone back and forth here.

These questions have most likely been answered before, and I'm sorry for asking them again.

1 - What parts of your app ecosystem will be open source? Which ones will be closed source? Who owns the code in your eyes? Kuvacash or the Masternode network? Would you be willing to sign an agreement that any successfully passing proposal that needs the closed source code would have access? I'm thinking if other proposals want to copy Kuva but for other countries.

2 - Why are your fees so high? The point of Dash is to send money around the world almost without fees. 3.9% seems really high. When I just checked on Western union I saw a fee of around 4% (+ conversion rate, something that you would also do I'm sure).

3 - Let's say Kuvacash becomes successful, will any profit be returned to the Dash network? We most likely will most likely build return to network transactions right after evolution, where profits from proposals fund the future ecosystem. Do you have any ideas here.

4 - What guarantees do we have that you won't leave the Dash ecosystem after one of your future proposals don't pass. For example let's say this proposal passes, but in 3 months the next one doesn't. You might feel like we have abandoned kuvacash. Does the Dash Network own anything after putting in 5.5k Dash? Or would you continue the project without Dash Network ownership?

Thanks, Q
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi quantumexplorer,

Thanks for the comments and questions.

1. Kuvacash owns the code, although we are releasing aspects of it as open source, first release coming Monday.

2. Fees are lower than all money remitters currently. Our net is 4% (in and out) but actually customers will remit inbound at less than 1% and out at less than 4%. This is disruptively low pricing.

3. Our aim is to launch and grow Kuvacash to a sustainable effort. As in the medium term we don’t have shareholders that we return profits to, profits are all returned to growing the Kuvacash ecosystem and sustaining it. We are incentivised through the Utility Note mechanic and growth of the value of Notes (and Dash, for our personal Dash holdings)

4. The entire system has been built around Dash, and with the assistance of the DAO. Dash owes us nothing. We anticipate that we will get through launch and will be able to prove this model. If the model doesn’t work, we won’t continue. If it does work, we anticipate the network to be very pleased with this, and help fund the growth of Kuvacash as much as they can - it will be a unicorn you would be funding, essentially this will grow the Dash ecosystem, tx volume and take Dash off the speculative market. If we are successful but aren’t funded by the DAO we will have to consider our options, which includes using the insight to gain institutional funding. We want to avoid this.

Regardless of whether Dash funds this or not, we have no interest in going to any other project. Dash is the only coin with Instantsend AND the liquidity in the market to let us achieve our aims.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
I'm sorry Drako,

I can no longer vote yes on this. It's pretty clear from your answer that the Dash network does not own any part of what we have funded with no guarantees.

On top of that 4% is not disruptive and just slightly less that western Union. https://remittanceprices.worldbank.org/en/corridor/United-Kingdom/Zimbabwe

To me this seems like a business made for profit not to help people in Zimbabwe but to tap into the lucrative remittence market and eventually take the profits for yourself once Kuva is self sustaining. At least that's what you just answered. Am I getting anything wrong?

-Q
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
On a technical, legal, level, until the MNOs are actually availed of the ostensible legal solution centering around the Trust, no one owns anything. At the point, even DCG's compliance with the MNOs' votes is purely voluntary with the exception of being contingent on withholding funds. That's really the only sense of "ownership" that the network has over the products of *any* of its funded organizations.

On the other hand, KuvaCash has been the *only* organization that has directly offered some form of stake in their operations to the MNOs in the form of their Utility Tokens, which constitute the only actual stake or equity in the project. Now, of course these have not yet been disbursed as the project has not yet gone live, so that remains to be seen, but on that basis, "the network" actually owns as much or more of KuvaCash than almost any other project.

Your concerns about how much or to what extent the project is OS are valid, to be sure, but remember that until our legal standing solidifies in full--and that probably includes Dash Ventures as well if we're actually going to own and invest in the projects we fund--there is no actual legal way for the network to own anything other than the voluntary compliance of proposal owners and the threat of defunding.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Quantumexplorer,

Unfortunately I need to correct you on your main point.

We offer inbound remittances at just under 1% which is less than a quarter of what Western Union offers.

We also offer outbound at just under 4% which is not only highly disruptive but really demonstrates how we have managed to create a real solution alternate to the banks and other remitters for international payments in ANY currency (not just USD).

I hope that given this clarification you can now support our proposal, let me know if you have further questions though.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
One more thing - and this has also been explained many times; we are not taking profits from Kuva. Our business structure does not allow for it - we reinvest all our profits into growth and innovation. We are here to sustainably land Dash in jurisdictions that need it, and ensure the longevity of Kuvacash as a Dash-based money system.

We use Utility Notes as the main incentive structure, and none of us will own the equity (in the medium-long term) and under this structure we can never take dividends (ie no, we won’t take profits out).

We are, however not charity in the slightest. We will provide fairly priced money services as has been described in the video, and will extend these to a number of different opportunities and partnerships.

We will make money from the rise in value of Dash and the corresponding Utility Notes.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Re (1) let me clarify - not all of Kuva is open source. It is owned by the IP holding co and when established, the Kuvacash trust.

We may release further parts of it as OSS as long as it doesn’t affect our competitive position in the market.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Compared to the other local options, their fees are very reasonable. And it would be nice to see them start to generate some cash flow as another progress metric.

I think Drako has addressed the ownership question before with regards to the Utility Tokens assigned to everybody who voted on the original proposal (without even being asked to do so), but perhaps he could provide additional details with regards to the total number of UT's, and the distribution of said tokens.

I personally have to see this through with YES votes. But certainly, if there is not specific measurable objective results in the next 90 days, that would be bad. So far though, they have given reasonable progress reports and hit all their milestones.

And I appreciate the flexibility to make last minute adjustments to account for the tight budget. But really, let's look at the risk/reward ratio. For the price of two nice cars, we can answer the question: Can we make a meaningful impact on the economy of a country the size of Zimbabwe, or not...?

solarguy
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Hi Solarguy,

Thanks for clarifying - missed your reply. I also replied to quantum above.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
All the vocal critics and scrutiny directed toward Kuvacash make it seem like there is an obvious better way for this project to work. But is there? And who among us actually knows anything about bringing a project of this scope to market? To the best of my knowledge, Kuvacash is unique in the crypto space - and it's no surprise to me that it has been dependent on a currency like Dash that has a treasury to catalyse so much development. There are bigger crypto currencies than Dash but none of them have a treasury and despite their size they couldn't fund a project like Kuvacash. This will be a significant stepping stone for Dash and it just beggars belief that there are people that should be the biggest proponents of Dash going out of their way to damage this project. Where is the vision in behaving like that?
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0 points,1 month ago
Hi voluntary,

Thanks for the succinct comments and the support - absolutely correct. Note how immediately you get -1 for taking the time to talk sense.

There are persistent detractors here who don't even understand what it is you have to say. But you are on the right side of history and we'll make this launch happen regardless.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
9 points,1 month ago
Hi Drako,

I may be wrong, but it could possibly be the choice of words and the tone used from both yourself and some others who are pushing for this proposal to pass that some other MNO's are being put off by.

There are a few examples where there appears to be a tendency to not directly answer the questions being asked and to attack the person asking. For example, Walter asked some perfectly well intentioned, fair and justifiable questions surrounding your proposal and your first reply accused him of being a "persistent decorator". Regardless of any previous conversations or interactions you have had with someone, other MNOs might not be aware and may see such accusationary statements as a poor reflection of you.

Your most recent reply, above, also goes off on an offensive where you choose to start casting aspersions of those who may be seeking genuine answers. While your assumptions and observation may have some merit, such a tone can often come over as both arrogant and condescending, serving to alienate the people you are trying to get support for your proposal on.

While the rhetoric on both sides has sometimes been less than savoury, you - as a proposal owner, need to ensure that you rise above all this, showing the moral high ground where required. When someone asks a question, it is not wise to make assumptions of that person’s intentions when answering. Every MNO here is a potential YES vote for you.

Thanks
HotFlow
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
Correction: "persistent detractor" not "persistent decorator"
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-1 point,1 month ago
Hi Hotflow,

I appreciate your comment. But being a proposal owner doesn't mean tolerating the concern trolling of persistent detractors (not decorators) when they begin to waste mine and everyone's time here. You'll note that I raised the concern trolling of Walters 7 comments into the conversation, and never as a first reply. It was getting to the point that Walter was concern trolling over semantics, so MNO or not I called him out -please take another look to see this.

I appreciate we are asking for funding here from MNO's. I suggest, vote on the merits of the project and proposal and our success to date with respect to delivery, rather than the personalities involved with whom indeed you might clash.

Vote with your pocket and whether you think that an elite team that is delivering on this real opportunity is a good thing for Dash. Because that is how the business value of this strategic proposal is assessed.

I am happy to answer any genuine questions. People who give ad hominems or engage through concern-trolling with semantics will be called out.

I will usually try to reach out on PM via Discord to have a conversation with people who have legitimate questions or ongoing concerns, because I would also like to know how we might improve our communications and where people need further clarity.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
8 points,1 month ago
I have been quit direct with my question toward the Kuvateam, but I also agree with voluntary.

But please understand that the main problem is that masternode owners don't want to get scammed out more treasure funding. I am not saying your scamming us but from a MNO perspective, you have shown little of the work you have done.
I personally believe that most people are either not using dashwatch or do not trust there reporting.

I am quit certain that most questions would not have been asked if you had made short video's and pointed verifiable bullet points such as:

Hi guy's here is some one of Dashwatch standing next to me:
Here is our demo, click by click function by function, can you confirm it work's Dashwatch (yes)
Can you confirm that spend the budget correctly (yes)
Can you confirm the validity of the TIER 1 and 2 banking licenses (yes) (Major miles stones, MNO don't get this I think)

Assuming this was the case I am 100% certain, you would have substantially more votes. Hopefully you're upcoming video can do just that. I am excited to see it.

After that if you want to make 2 hour long video's for a select few people, no problem, but right now the video's look and feel like I am very sorry to say, look and feel like video's attempting to scam people out money, by using fluffy words, overly long and complicated. (And I honestly get this stuff is way harder than most MNO thing it is, but carefully listing to your video's give me littererly a headache !, I have that with no other video's including Dash Core Quarterly calls, does that are also long but every pick contacts some worthwhile often verifiable information)

I hope you understand I am not trying to attack you here, I am trying to provide constitutive critisme based on what I have seen are read.

Just to be clear if KuvaCash is delivering what you say, and Dashwatch verified it is it is, we MNO'ers have nothing to so critical about, and we should instead be praising KuvaCash.
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Hi A_node_to_a_master,

I don't know what to say other than this; the level of scrutiny that Kuvacash has been put under is unprecedented. Yes, we have done everything we say we have, and this has been checked in detail, independently along with the associated financials.

We demonstrated the Kuvacash app at our booth to hundreds of people, and also live on our webinar, at Moneyconf Dublin.

As to verification - we spent 2 full days in person with Dashwatch, full open-book. It is up to you to look at their reporting work across all proposals and decide for yourself as to whether they are trustworthy or not. There were numerous questions from the community and it took hours to answer these in context on video.

I appreciate that Kuvacash appears complex - because, well, it is. We have a treasury system, multiple applications, wallet infrastructure, exchange connectivity, the Utility Notes, our licensing, business structuring, legals... It is as complex, in fact arguably more so, than Dash Core Group as an organisation.

On Friday we will release the video with our software suite, screen-recorded video and a description of Kuva's business model at launch. We are trying to keep this to under 20 minutes, so it's easy to sit through.

Admittedly we could have simplified reporting, and we are adjusting our approach with this, but this is not as easy as you might think. The Dashwatch reports were our shorter independent written reports for for the community, for which we submitted answers to their collated questions, and our live Q&A video updates with the executive were the more comprehensive, these being presented with an opportunity to take questions from attendees.

I mean, it's either that we are delivering an incredible platform to create a money system that we beach-head into Africa with, and we've so far done that on-schedule and on-budget, or that Kuvacash is the most sophisticated scam in DAO history, what with all of our straight faces and all, over the last 9 months :)

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
To me it becoming increasingly clear that you don't understand what we are saying.

1) The demo video is unclear and way to short, it also not on you're channel and it's hidden in a much longer video.
1a) But you did have time to show it to 200 people, yet not to does that funded you !
1c) I almost want to shout it "PLEASE JUST SHOW IT TO USE ALREADY!"
1d) Please sop pretesting we are asking to much in that regard, that is why you're losing this popular contest. Honestly that makes you look like a scammer, to the point that I am even wonder if DashWatch in on this scam or not.

I don't think you get (at least what I am hoping) that is incredibility insulting toward me and my fellow masternode owners you have been with you're comment's it's all there to here and see.

I am not some random person, I my not be on you're level of understand of the financial workings, but my activity's as active p2p trader with well over 4500 people and attempted of starting my own crypto-exhange brings me allot closer to understand what you are doing.

I am trying to be as helpful and polite as I can be towards you, as one professional towards another professional, but I don't know if I can get tru to you, if I can't maybe you should let some else to the communication towards Dash MNO'er for you, because KuvaCash, may fail because just that, and that would make me very sad as person that want to build a better tomorrow.

Maybe it is because you're so deep into this stuff that you don't get that even a regular masternode owner doesn't get what you are saying.

But please look at this website and video:
This guy is getting only 25 dash a month for 8 months(do I am not sure he will get the regulatory part done):
He is able to provide a decent insight in less than 10 minutes each month !
https://ewallet.co.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MkDGObBA-8Q

*Please look at my up votes and that of other posters as well, there is a reason why that is and most of us are asking for the same thing "Short sweet and simple data, we as MNO can view and verify for ourselves. At any-rate I am not out to get you


From this proposal:
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/UK-Fiat-To-Dash-Exchange-And-Marketing
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
Hello,

Thanks for highlighting our proposal and the updates we're doing. We appreciate all the support we're getting and the valuable input we've received.

I'd like to make it clear that I have met with Drako twice and myself and my team have seen a full demo of the application at Moneyconf in Dublin.

You're right, Drako hasn't always been succinct in how he communicates with the DAO, but that's because he's used to working at an entirely different level. Where we are bootstrapping on a hope and prayer, he's building a fully fledged team to address an incredibly complex, multi-faceted proposal. Hence the budgetary demands and the communication he delivers are also on a completely different level.

His proposal has been through the most rigorous checks of any, including the two hour live-stream and to a certain extent given the sums invested I feel that he deserves both the diligence undertaken by Dash Watch and the time invested by the DAO to both understand and question his proposal. That said, he has met all these demands and gone above and beyond to be transparent, far more so than any other proposal of Kuva's size.

One final thing I'd like to raise, is about Drako himself, he is a straight-shooter and is not afraid to speak his mind... however I would urge the members of the DAO to put themselves in his shoes at this moment. Him and his team have worked incredibly hard over the last year to build something with a goal to provide financial freedom for millions that have been let down time and time again by the current systems serving them. 'Let down' is in fact a very soft way to put it, in reality they have been screwed over by their governments and the monetary systems in place. Imagine you'd built something to do this and were on the precipice of launch, only to be told 'no can do' by the very people who supported you to pursue this endeavour.

I'm all too aware of the sunk cost fallacy, but the DAO has a real opportunity here and Kuva is well positioned to be the stepping stone that transitions one financial institution to another. If you're pissed off with Drako, be pissed off with him and him alone but consider the proposal on it's own merits on both the benefits it could bring to the world and to Dash. I don't say this lightly but I truly believe the impact of your decisions goes way beyond him and way beyond the DAO. Ask yourself what if, what if Kuva does work and transforms these economies, what impact will that have on these people and on Dash? Just spend the time to watch the stream, look at the demo when its uploaded today and make your own minds up.

/my2duff
Ash
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi A_node_to_a_master,

I think you have misunderstood me; the full Kuvacash software demo video is not released yet, but it will be later today. The comprehensive interview by Dashwatch was the collated community questions.

I did mention the fact that we have been put through considerably more scrutiny than any other proposal on the DAO, and have been fundamentally transparent to the community. That’s not to say your questions are not valid.

I respect that you are likely a professional with experience in crypto. That is perhaps why you’re here.

I’m also trying to understand the rest of your post - is there something more that you’re asking for which has not been addressed?

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
12 points,1 month ago
Could you expand on what you mean by cooperation between nexus, DW and DCG please? Above it states
that this revised proposal was only made possible because of such cooperation, but i find the proposal light on specific details given how important a factor it was? I.e. amount and type of funding/assistance received from nexus, DW and DCG.

I think it’s important MNOs understand the details given the tacit endorsement that support from these types of organisations brings.

On a more general note I acknowledge and appreciate the fact that you have gone away and sharpened your pencil, as I suggested, it’s just a shame that you didn’t come to the network with a more reasonable price in the first place. Im sure you would have found MNOs to be much more accommodating if you had.

Thanks

Walter
Reply
6 points,1 month ago
Hi everyone, Yuri from the DashNexus team here.

I just wanted to confirm that we had open and productive discussions with Kuva, Dashwatch, and several other key proposal owners to balance our supplemental funding request and cause minimal disruption in this tight budget cycle.

While our own project is significantly underfunded, we did everything in our power to adjust our burn rate and defer our costs as much as possible to minimize our ask this month.

We hope that these efforts will allow for all key strategic Dash initiatives to receive the necessary funding to stay operational in these tough times and allow the Dash network to come out stronger than ever when the tide turns.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Thanks for the info mindhive, much appreciated.

Thanks
Walter
Reply
-1 point,1 month ago
In nature, populations are kept healthy by predators who kill off the weak and the slow ones. What mechanism in Dash allows the population of Dash projects to remain healthy?
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi billyjoeallen,

I think you will find many cases in nature where there is a lot of social cooperation to ensure that functional members of a group survive when resources get stretched.

Second to this, you are starting to raise ideological dogma that is irrelevant.

Kuvacash is a key strategic project for Dash, on-schedule and on-budget, at the eve of its launch.

You appear to be a persistent detractor without an argument, as per our statement above, and MNO's can see this clear as day.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Yeah, I sea that the "dogma" talking point has been handed around. What i'm wondering is what happens if the resources get so thin that none of the projects can survive on the meager portions of the treasury your are all so generously sharing with each other? Would you all have to fail, or is there some point when we eventually prioritize?
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi billyjoeallen,

There is already competition in the treasury. You back your strongest horses, and proposals that have enough behind them to cut through the noise and make a difference to Dash adoption.

Presently, we have worked with other proposal owners and Core to allow this to launch, should MNO's wish for it to. You are free to prioritize and vote as you see fit, that's the whole point of the DAO, it gives you this opportunity.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
...because internal cryptocurrency funding ecosystems are exactly the same as a very specific example from nature and those are the only things that have ever existed or ever will and it's a totally appropriate and applicable metaphor for how this ecosystem does and ought to work...

Next you're going to tell us about lobsters...
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
Are you saying the issue of sustainability isn't relevant? I'm asking how a healthy and sustainable population of projects is going to be maintained if the weakest ones aren't allowed to die. It's a question.
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0 points,1 month ago
In order to determine what is and isn't sustainable, you have to be able to tell the future or make the assumption that circumstances will stay the same or get worse and none of it is really fully predictable. Furthermore, there are instances wherein in may be prudent or beneficial to make a temporary sacrifice for long-term gains or any number of other countless scenarios. This is why dogmatic adherence to ideological principles rather than case-by-base pragmatics is an inadequate way to manage an ecosystem this complex (to the degree that our actions can effectively steer the course). There are a lot of operations that go in to how and why to vote for or against particular projects, and they can't all be reduced to prosaic platitudes that may not even actually apply.
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0 points,1 month ago
So are you saying that because the future is unknown that we shouldn't care about sustainability? That because it's impossible to prepare perfectly that we shouldn't prepare for likely scenarios? I totally agree that sometimes we need to sacrifice for long-term gains. That was kinda my point, actually.
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12 points,1 month ago
Wow -1 instantly for asking a question?
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1 point,1 month ago
Hey Walter, Fernando from DCG here.

I can confirm that we have agreed to provide funds to help Kuvacash with some marketing expenses. The amount would be 20-25k and are contingent on this proposal passing. This money would come from our own (very limited) marketing budget, but we believe that if such an amount makes a difference and helps launch a project in which the network has invested a lot, we should do it.

We are working with other partners to supplement small marketing efforts. The amounts are small because we are also cutting expenses everywhere, but by limiting this to proposals that get approved, we believe we are adhering to the direction from masternodes.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hey Fernando, thank you for verifying this, much appreciated. Please could you also confirm whether this would be a single payment of 20-25k or whether it is a payment each month for the duration of the proposal?

Thanks
Walter
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
It is a one-time payment.
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0 points,1 month ago
Hi walter,

By 'sharpening pencil' we mean 'it was painful' and took a lot of work. Neither James nor myself will be paid anything until after we launch. We have also negotiated parts of funding from other sources, including going to Dash Core Group for support. We have called favours and asked others working on the project to hold back or volunteer their time - showing them what happened to the price of Dash. This is why we were able to 'sharpen our pencil'. It is not without pain and considerable effort.

Cooperation between DCG, DW and Nexus looks like this; a discussion to determine a target budget point that we would all need to work towards, and that everyone could agree on. Fernando from DCG agreed with the sentiment that it would not be useful allocating budget to PR and marketing in this harrowing bear market, and that instead could see about providing support to us to help us over the line, alleviating the pressure on other proposals.

We are doing everything we can to get this to launch. I hope you see this, and are not one of the persistent detractors as mentioned in our statement in the proposal text, Walter in fact this might be why you got your quick -1.

Kuvacash is a project that shows the world what the DAO can achieve and how Dash has a real use case, truly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for everyone.

Thanks,
Drako
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10 points,1 month ago
I’m not a persistent detractor. I’m just asking for information. You seem to be all for asking the ‘hard’ questions yourself - as you put it - but not such a fan when they’re pointed in your direction..

So has Core Inc made a solid verbal or written commitment to contribute financially towards Kuva? And if so, how much? Also, is someone from Core Inc verify please?

Walter
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-4 points,1 month ago
Hi walter,

Good to hear. I hope we can now count on your support as all your questions appear to be answered, and you're only waiting for confirmation from DCG. I do appreciate any and all questions, as they are opportunities to demonstrate the professionalism of Kuvacash. But it's also good to have these in one go from individuals, so we don't have to go in circles or keep going back-and-forth.

Ryan Taylor (@babygiraffe) has confirmed the financial commitment in writing over private electronic channels. This is obviously contingent on MNO's passing our proposal, meaning that MNO's would wish to see Kuvacash launch.

I will leave Ryan or someone else from DCG to confirm details.

Thanks,
Drako
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5 points,1 month ago
... Not quite all questions :-)

I think it's important to know how much financial support Kuva will be receiving from Core Inc should your proposal pass. Can you tell us please?

Walter
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-1 point,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

As I mentioned above, Core can confirm the details to the level they are comfortable with.

Please respect that this is between two parties here, not just us.

Thanks,
Drako
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10 points,1 month ago
I respect that this is between two parties, but I'm hardly asking you for Colonel Sander's 11 secret spices here.. :-)

I really do hope we get clarification on this because MNOs do not want another Bitcart/opera/festy situation on our hands where we have a proposal owner believing one thing and then Core Inc stating another. It's very easy for misunderstandings to happen (!) so it's important that these details are transparent, published and that some sort of MOU is signed between you and confirmed by both parties via statements.

MNOs can then make a decision with all of the facts on the table.

Thanks

Walter
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5 points,1 month ago
Also - so just to confirm the cooperation between Kuva, Nexus and Dashwatch was nothing more than a meeting/discussion? No funding? No commitments of help or resources?

Walter
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0 points,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

Core can post their confirmation and details of the support. I'm ok to share these, but it is not just up to us. I have given a heads-up to Ryan to respond.

Business negotiations looked like this; multiple meetings/hangouts/calls between us all over the last week and a half. Meetings between finance directors, working through spreadsheets. Finals agreed and committments made. Temporary pay reductions or deferrals. Alternative tie-over financing. Speaking with suppliers where possible to defer or restructure costs. You are free to position this however you like, but it isn't a trivial exercise.

You will note Nexus making a statement shortly on their own proposal relating to this.

Thanks,
Drako
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2 points,1 month ago
So they were business negotiations now? I'm confused.

Anyway, I'm not trying to position anything here, I'm just looking for some straight answers to some simple questions.. And I'm not getting them.

I'll wait to hear from Core Inc before further comment.

Thanks

Walter
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-2 points,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

Naturally they are 'business negotiations', since they are negotiations between businesses. Consider whether the semantics of this really need to be spelled out to you and others here.

You are now getting to the point of concern trolling, playing semantics and wasting mine and other MNO's time.

The final questions you raised have now all been addressed, in full to the level possible and we are, as per 7 comments ago, now waiting for Core to confirm details.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
7 points,1 month ago
I don't think it's constructive to call me out for concern trolling and time wasting. I've been part of this community since May 2014, and a long time before Masternodes and the second tier were even a thing, I've seen it all with regards to Dash and I take my job as an MNO very seriously.

You haven't addressed my questions, I didn't ask you how the 'business negotiations' looked. I asked you what was agreed with regards to funding, help or any other assistance from Nexus, DW or DCG?

I accept that you want us to wait to hear from Ryan for details on Core, but you haven't addressed what was discussed and agreed with DW or Nexus.

Also, you are avoiding giving me direct answers to my questions and that is why I am having to repeat myself. Trying to label me as a troll and time waster is not an legitimate response. You are the one asking for a lot of funding here, not me.

Thanks

Walter
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-4 points,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

The result of Nexus, Kuva and Dashwatch are the figures we posted on our recent proposals (200 Dash from Nexus and 545 Dash from us), that will let us both continue our work.

Furthermore, Dashwatch kindly agreed not to post a proposal this month. DCG can provide further confirmation along with any details they wish to communicate.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
Thank you! It would have been a lot easier if you just said that from the start :-)

I'll wait to hear from Nexus and DCG before further comment.

Thanks

Walter
Reply
8 points,1 month ago
Hi walters,

I would like to clarify that DashNexus will NOT be providing any funding to Kuva or any other organization. The funds requested by our team will be used solely to continue development of the Nexus platform.
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1 point,1 month ago
Hi Walter,

See the above confirmation. and response from Fernando of DCG.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Short and to the point: Yes.
Reply
7 points,1 month ago
I echo the sentiments that it seems pretty clear that this project is our best shot at decoupling from the speculative rollercoaster and moving toward actual real-life use in the shortest possible timeframe. At the very least, it would be an unconscionable waste of our treasury if we brought this project to this point and then denied it the opportunity to take the stage and perform.

Secondly, voting on proposals because you like or dislike a proposal owner or advocate for the project is a worse than worthless contribution to the network. All that matters in evaluating proposals is whether or not they will enhance and enrich the network more than they will harm or cost it on their own merits and relative to other proposals. I can understand that evaluations of the team members is important for assessing whether or not they can carry out their intended goals, but remember this has little to nothing to do with whether or not you like them as a person. Is their project good or bad for Dash? What will be the aggregate effect? Can they pull it off? What will the effects be if they do? Making decisions on behalf of all of us due to personal reasons that have nothing to do with the rest of us is irresponsible, non-sequitur, and detrimental to the network.

Not funding this project would be a terrible mistake. Most of the other projects can survive without this funding. KuvaCash can't. KuvaCash has hitherto been one of the primary talking points for the viability of Dash as a use case beyond speculation. It's been the subject of other proposals (Frame48 Documentary). It needs to have a fair shot at succeeding, and Dash along with it.
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2 points,1 month ago
We have seen much if they actually delivered other than long winded interviews, and a very short (incomplete) demo of the KuvaCash wallet.

For me it basically comes down, do we trust that DashWatchman has preformed the checks on KuvaCash.
Reply
0 points,1 month ago
They've explicitly stated that they'll have a full demo of the system coming--theoretically--this week. It would be wise to reserve judgment until then.
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0 points,1 month ago
It's going to be a make or break video, it may be a case of representing it to late. I sincerely hope they will deliver a sufficient video, and hopefully, the no-voters will also watch and change there votes.

I really want KuvaCash to succeed very badly, it's in my top 3 projects (Dash Evo is number 4). So no ill will I just need them to proof themselves to the community and the rest of the world.
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-1 point,1 month ago
Hi A_node_to_a_master,

The video has now been released, please see the top of the proposal for the link.

Thanks,
Drako
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4 points,1 month ago
I appreciate the flexibility to make changes on the fly like this. And, I like the sense of cooperation with other essential projects in the Dash ecosystem. We will have to sacrifice and be creative to get through this dry period for crypto, but we will survive this. Don't forget, people in Zimbabwe have it much worse than we have it, even at a 90% correction in Dash. Voting yes. We'll make it work somehow.

solarguy
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2 points,1 month ago
Hi Solarguy,

Once again thanks very much for the support!

Thanks,
Drako
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4 points,1 month ago
Thank you for restructuring your budget proposal, it shows flexibility.
You have my support for this new restructured budget proposal.
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3 points,1 month ago
Hi Quizzie,

Very much appreciated, cheers for the support

Thanks,
Drako
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5 points,1 month ago
I appreciate Kuva's effort to significantly cut the budget. I think we really do need to fund this. With these funds we are not just getting this project off the ground, but we are reaping the benefits of all the previous investment. I think it would be an embarrassing disaster both from a PR point of view and also for Dash in general for this project to not happen at this point, and it does present a real opportunity for Dash to make a difference on a large scale. Voting yes
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Troydash,

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I really appreciate you coming on board with this.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
"At the very least, it would be an unconscionable waste of our treasury if we brought this project to this point and then denied it the opportunity to take the stage and perform. "
LOL, PURE logic right there. You wasted the shit out of treasury funds the last year so now you have to continue giving projects more treasury funds.
I want to encourage all MNO's to log in every month to deny all the wasteful POS projects. I'd rather burn the treasury funds than continue to donate it to projects that spend it out on exchanges for all their expenses.
Reply
4 points,1 month ago
Hi Stone,

We delivered on-schedule and to budget exactly what MNO's expected us to. And now we are at the point of launch.

You are suggesting that after getting this far, Kuvacash should now not launch, and you give a single, incoherent reason ("spend it out on exchanges for all their expenses"). I don't think anyone here actually understands what you are talking about.

You simply appear to be one of the persistent detractors mentioned in the statement above in the proposal text, please read it and let me know what you think.

That said, am more than happy to answer any coherent questions you might have.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
They have delivered what was promised in the proposals. Just because you didn't read the proposals and assumed certain things doesn' t mean the Kuvacash team is at fault.
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0 points,1 month ago
Spamming multiple proposals with the same message is not a very good way of making a persuasive point. Is bothering to take the time to log in every month to pay lip service to the value of your investment your New Years Resolution (better late than never, I suppose)? Yeah, no, this is not a waste of treasury funds. Not allowing this project the opportunity to perform is *definitely* a waste of treasury funds, though.
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2 points,1 month ago
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/
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2 points,1 month ago
This needs to happen folks!, We have put so much money into user marketing and user adoption, look at where it has got us! I mean ETH Classic has a bigger market cap than Dash now for fucks sake! We need real world use cases, we need infrastructure, not just more marketing at speculators! This is a big vote YES from me.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Dash NEVER marketed itself to speculators. Hence our slip from the top 10, replaced by inferior projects who DO NOTHING BUT market themselves to speculators.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
Hi Balderdash,

Thanks for the support and votes, and yes - we're landing a Dash-based money system to make this useful for people on the ground, this is the way for us to break Dash away from every other crypto.

Thanks,
Drako
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1 point,1 month ago
I appreciate the work it took to get this to a more reasonable ask. I agree that this is an important undertaking at an opportune time in Zimbabwe's history. I will support this.
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2 points,1 month ago
Hi Tao,

Thank you for your support, much appreciated by me and the team!

Thanks,
Drako
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0 points,1 month ago
DCG requested $935k in USD funding for this month ($600k+$210k+$125k). Looking at dash price right now (~$150) means that had dash price been $150 when they submitted the proposals, they would have needed ~6,233 dash (101%) to fund those proposals in their entirety. That means there is no money for anything at this price level, and it may get worse. I hate to see a long slow, painful drawn-out death of underfunded projects. I just don't see how we have the money.
Reply
3 points,1 month ago
In the Q2 quarterly call from last Friday Glenn (CFO) said they are taking measures to cut costs and wouldn't ask more than 60% of the treasury budget (regardless of the Dash price). So there may still be funds in the next few months.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
If they can get by on 545 Dash, then why did they previously ask for 760? and if they can't get by on 545 dash, then isn't passing this proposal just throwing good money after bad?
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3 points,1 month ago
Hi billyjoeallen,

The explanation of how we restructured costs is in the proposal text. This is not easy for us - we deferred payments to the executive (50.5%cut) asked Core for funding, used all our contingency and worked with other proposal owners with as precise financials as we could to balance the budget.

If you read our statement in the proposal text, and Arthyrons comments - we have built the equivalent of a high performance race-car in accordance with the wishes of the MNO community and supporters of Kuvacash.

You are suggesting we don't take it to the racetrack, but instead scrap it and your reasons are unclear. We can properly move to launch Kuvacash with the funding from DAO we are now requesting.

As would be expected by our supporters, we are doing all we can to ensure we launch Kuvacash and make history.

You are free to apply your obtuse critique, but here is a thought experiment; you one day build a house from scratch, and then, before you buy furniture and start to live in it, you instead decide to burn it to the ground to avoid buying furniture.

Would you be ok justifying your decision to the horrified bystanders observing your actions, based on 'sunk cost fallacy'?

Do you see my point? Let's just get this launched instead - what do you think..

Thanks,
Drako
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1 point,1 month ago
I'm just trying to figure out how to support KUVA, Dash Watch, Dash Nexus, Dash Force, Core, Dash Venezuela, and a dozen others all on less money than we are currently only giving one of 'em. My house is a real money pit too so I guess you analogy fits, but something's gotta give. I'm guessing you don't think it should be you. They prolly don't think it should be them either.
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2 points,1 month ago
Hi billyjoeallen,

Understood. We actually did all we could to ensure that the proposals you listed would fit with our ask.

In any case it is a competitive month, and it's up to MNO's now to triage the rest of the proposals and back what they think are their strongest horses.

Thanks,
Drako
Reply
2 points,1 month ago
Cooperating with other projects is a good way for you to extract the most value from the treasury. It is not a good way for the network to get the most value from projects. You are supposed to compete and the least valuable are supposed to die off. Otherwise, the blood loss only stops when the patient (Dash) dies. If proposal owners were even half as good at actually providing value to the network as you are at making promises, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Reply
1 point,1 month ago
"You are supposed to..."

This is the kind of thinking that leads us to ruin. You're placing ideological conformity above pragmatics. Competition is great when resources are abundant, but it's wasteful and inefficient when resources are scarce. That's when Cooperation shines. Neither of these are absolutes, though. Point being, there is no ideal to which the network or its actors need or ought to conform. All that matters is ultimately what is best for the network. If this project ends up achieving its ultimate potential, it will probably be among the greatest ROI of any project out there. It's possible that it could fail, sure, but it will *definitely* fail if it's not funded, and that is guaranteed to be a waste of funds, whereas allowing the chance to run to pilot has the possibility of leading to great things.

Stop. Being. Dogmatic.
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1 point,1 month ago
Competition is unavoidable. Either we allow competition within Dash or Dash itself succumbs to the competition of other coins. Realism is not dogmatic. Realism is realism. Dogmatism is insistence on principle in spite of evidence. The evidence is that we've lost 90% market cap and significant market rank and we've invested in parts of the world that most investors shun because of the relative lack of respect for property rights. The pragmatic thing to do is what investors want. The dogmatic thing to do is to plow ahead in a course of action that investors signal with increasing volume that they don't support.
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0 points,1 month ago
Again, misapplied algorithms. "What investors want" is not necessarily what is best for Dash. There are no absolutes in this ecosystem. The crypto markets aren't even rational. The only one insisting on adherence to pre-conceived principles here is you. Competition is not always unavoidable when cooperation or coordination are also possible.
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0 points,1 month ago
If investors are so irrational, then why do they have money when you don't?
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0 points,1 month ago
I would wager that the majority of people in crypto really just happened to be at the right place at the right time or otherwise got lucky. There's no reason to assume that because someone possesses wealth, that it is the result of their shrewd choices. My experience with wealthy people--including investors--is most of them can barely tie their own shoelaces and largely inherited what they have, or at least the inherited the resources and preconditions for obtaining wealth. This is borne out statistically across society. I have no reason to suspect that crypto is any different.
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0 points,1 month ago
Do you think it wise to insult people who could be helping us?
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0 points,1 month ago
I basically don't care, nor should any "serious investor" care what one potential partner out of hundreds says. Your insinuation was that investors are wealthy because they're smart/shrewd/etc. My contention is that this is probably not the case in many if not most instances, especially in this highly irrational speculative market.
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