Welcome!

Have not gotten replies back several times when messaging the P.O. Would encourage to be more diligent in responding back : )

I receive multiple private messages per day. The ones I received from you were asking about the Arab Dash proposal individual's account status, and a suggestion for an interview.

I had already explained to you before that I posted everything regarding Hassna-gate and her associates in #mno-only, and the suggestion for an interview was noted. No need for a response there, when you have other things happening that took time precedence.

Dash Watch February 24th 2019 Report on
Dash Nation DFO by TaoOfSatoshi
https://dashwatchbeta.org/r/FEB19/Dash-Nation-DFO-2018-2019

High light for the report:
February 2019 Expenses

Tao Of Satoshi compensation 25 Dash
Part-time moderators compensation 8 Dash
Forum Engagement (storm, tips) 1.9 Dash
Brian Davis compensation 0.5 Dash
Proposal Fee Reimbursement 1 Dash

>>> My opinion Tao is taking far to large a portion for himself, he pocketed 25dash per month when Dash was 1k+ as well btw. This is unfair to the rest of his team and its unfair to other people tighting there belts, and Tao hold multiple masternodes as well.

>>> I am voting yes, because Tao is holding this gun to our heads, but as soon we are able to move him out of position, I will vote no, I want him gone.

"he pocketed 25dash per month when Dash was 1k+ as well btw"

That's a narrative I haven't heard yet, but as usual, it is patently false. At no point was I making $25,000 a month to fulfill my role.

"This is unfair to the rest of his team and its unfair to other people tighting there belts"

The services my team and I provide are essential to a stable communication environment where the community can thrive and we can attract newcomers to Dash. Our forums stand out because of the values that we support in Dash Nation. As well, I believe in honest pay for honest work, and the work I put in to achieve the results I do justify my ask. My moderators are all part-time, with no set hours to come in. The Dash Nation remuneration schedule is justified based on that.

"Tao is holding this gun to our heads"

That's also an interesting statement. The made-up arguments against me have taken a turn for the worse.

I am an active member myself and stepping up to do things without pay for the network as well, and I am sure I have less dash than you do.

At any rate you sound like a drama queen, and have hand waved away my arguments, perhaps more importantly see I have very little of you doing anything with advise given from other members unless it helps you personally.

You accuse me of holding a gun to the masternodes' heads, and then call me a drama queen? :-)

Fuck you guys and your support for censorship. No x13.

Use r/dashuncensored people.

You are referring to a reddit hate thread against Dash, created by dnale0r who is a fanatac Monero troll not only on forums but in real life as well (he once disrupted a Dash meeting in Amsterdam in 2015, a real life troll)

Are you insane ?

troll alert >>> 3d1409ae <<<

r/dashuncensored is nothing both an attempt by detractors of dash to trow mud at Dash. If you people what is written there than you have no business holding Dash, as it's a scam that completely worthless.

*IF you believe what is written in r/dashuncensored, than you have no business holding Dash, as it's a scam that completely worthless.

“support for censorship”

I can’t count how many times we’ve been accused of this with no proof to back it up. You’re lucky this isn’t one of our moderated forums, or this post would be removed for speculation as fact.

The Dash community shouldn’t have to waste its time with unfounded narratives. We have more productive things to do.

UPDATE: The activity log is now open on Dash Nation on Discord. Our moderation work there is now open and available for all to see. Thanks for the feedback.

Dash Nation | Together we are stronger. Thank you, Dash Nation!

A statement prepared by the Dash Nation DFO thanking the community for all of their support, and addressing some perceived concerns about the proposal. Please read!

https://www.dashnation.com/news/together-we-are-stronger-thank-you-dash-nation/

If it passes, that's great. Tao puts a lot of effort into it, as do all the other mods. And the Dash community participation is what makes the forum a useful place to hang out and get information. If it doesn't pass, we're still going to do our job. I'm one of the few paid mods, and it works out to about three bucks an hour or less. I'm just a poor masternode owner trying to make a difference. A little extra pocket money is nice, but I'm still going to do my job either way.

solarguy

I would like to see the payroll shifted, imho tao should be putting the 25 dash to the mod team and 8 to himself

The compensation reflects the amount of work out in. I am full-time on this between all aspects of the DN DFO, where my moderators are part time with no fixed schedule. I believe in equality between work and pay.

Our team is truly great. I respect and admire each of you.

Thank you! Very much appreciated!

To all those MNOs who voted YES, thanks for all the support. To those who voted NO, I’m sorry that the services we provide were deemed unworthy of the small amount we asked for.

Dash Nation will still continue in some form or another, but without compensation we will be unable to adhere to the same high standards you are used to on Dash Nation on Discord, and the other 2 forums.

If this is the end of the road, it was a pleasure to serve the network.

Wow seriously appalling tao has been a great moderator and steward of DN to defund him is a travesty to say the least

Thanks for your support. I really appreciate it.

Record level of voter turnout on TAOs proposal!

Tao is one of the most dedicated Dash community members that we have.

He has worked tirelessly with his team of mods to build the Dash community into what it is today, even in the face of vicious attacks on his character.

Whoever is voting No or Abstaining on this proposal, please reconsider, and vote Yes.

The chickens have come home to roost.

If you think 900+ yes voting - Dash Nation supporting - Masternodes won’t react to the smear campaign and the defunding of Tao, think again.

Tao pays himself 25 DASH from the 36 requested to delete your comments from the DN Discord and Mute or Ban you and your mate when the discussion gets too real. He does this while keeping a full time job at the casino and operating several masternodes, the greed is mind boggling.

Tao is not the sole moderator of the sub reddit and forums, most of that work is done by other moderators including those from DASH FORCE. Defunding this DASH grab would have no impact on that. Defunding this proposal is long overdue.

The compensation is fair based on results achieved and effort put in. Honest work for honest pay.

Those who know me know I’m a proud man, and I will not ask for more than I deserve. I owe that much to the network. Greed has nothing to do with this.

Dash Watch January 25th 2019 Report on
Dash Nation DFO by TaoOfSatoshi
https://dashwatchbeta.org/r/JAN19/Dash-Nation-DFO-2018-2019

Dash Nation DFO 2018 Year-end update and future plans
https://www.dashnation.com/news/2018-year-end-update-future-plans/

Dash Watch December 25th 2018 Report on
Dash Nation DFO by TaoOfSatoshi
http://bit.ly/DWDashNationDEC18

Dash Nation DFO (Dash Funded Organization) Update:
https://www.dashnation.com/initiatives/dash-nation-dfo-dash-funded-organization-update/

Dash Watch November 26th 2018 Report on
Dash Nation DFO by TaoOfSatoshi
http://bit.ly/DWDashNationNOV18

Glad to see all the discussion. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. The fact that this is the most discussed proposal shows that the Dash community is very involved. Competition is good. A few more yes votes preserves that competitive ecosystem. Win, lose or draw, thanks for participating.

solarguy

Agreed.

Tao runs his forum well enough.

Pro's
- Dash nation is run a cut above the average crypto forum (from what I can gauge as an active member)
- Dash nation is a substantial improvement how Dash forums where run before (from what I can gauge as an active member)
- Discussions within Dash nation are far quicker go to the heart of the problem, because slashing out and getting personal is removed


Con
- Dash nation is owned by Tao, and he is clearly saying he intents to keep it this way.
- Not sure if the payment is to high or not, but seeing TAO has full time job and seem to keep most off the funds, is at least especially during this bear-market not something to be proud of.

The first con is MAJOR one and it should resolved in time if Tao is unwilling, than by force (i would even be willing to take up that roll myself seeing the pay Tao is getting, obviously I would set it up in a way that the DAO can fire me or anybody else how would take my position). Dash need this type of a professional run platform to discuss important topic and welcome new members, going without one is not an option at this point. The other DFN is run in a completely different way, and is therefor not a substitute.

Conclusion
I vote yes, and I hope the people that like the DFN, will at least allow others to have a place to chat as well, and do not block by voting no for this. Thank you for you're consideration in advance

People that voted no, I urge you to change your mind. Tao and DN have their faults, like we all do, but right now with 13.0 around the corner we really need a moderation team especially for new people coming into discord. Can some people who voted "no" try to settle their differences with Tao?

Nobody said Tao should stop moderating his Discord.

By all means, it's his creation and nobody wants to take that away from him. Where did that narrative come from?

The point of contention (for me) is that he has no place moderating the subreddit or the official Dash Forum, since it's an overreach of this proposal and the (assumed) powers granted by it.

And he most definitely does not deserve 25 Dash monthly for it.

So my only changes to this proposal would be:

a) Pay your moderators a fair share instead of keeping a greedy 25 Dash for yourself

b) Strike the moderation claims towards r/dashpay and the Dash Forum

Other than that I have no problem with this proposal whatsoever.

Agreed on both counts. Tao needs to go back to basics imho, and get back to doing what he was hired for in the first place. The Tao I've seen over the last 6 months seems more concerned with empire building and working on 'his brand' than on genuine community engagement and outreach. The numbers don't lie either, just look at the amount of his Dash budget 'rolled over' because it wasn't spent on moderators and engagement - 22Dash. That's nearly a whole month's ask in this latest proposal.

I see no justification for letting budget go unspent like that, unless the effort just isn't being made in those areas?

I'd like to see a revised proposal put in that takes things back to basics and puts the focus back on community building and outreach. This empire building and 'brand' developing is an unwelcome distraction, it's not what we are voting for, and is taking away from the core value of the original proposition to the network.

Walter

I think the best way to proof this would by showing dfn can run their discord channel for cheaper

25 Dash a month isn't upsetting to me at all, it's like 3500$, and not exactly what I would call a greedy ask.

What we really need is a DAP in evolution where MNOs can vote to grant people certain powers, like head administrator of the Dash Forum/dashpay. After a vote there will at least be legitimacy with a position.

For the job performed it is indeed extremely greedy, especially if your moderators get next to nothing. But going by current fiat value is an invalid argument to begin with anyway: We know from blockchain analysis that Tao doesn't convert to fiat. He doesn't need to, because he has a full time job at a casino, which makes his salary even more unjustified.

This proposal is for 5 months. What's the Dash price gonna be in 3 months? Do you know? Let's say 1k. Does a monthly 25,000 USD for chatting around in a Discord channel still sound legitimate to you? While the moderators get nothing? While Tao has _additionally_ an income from multiple Masternodes?

Let's be reasonable here. Mods should be paid fairly as well. How could anyone argue against that?

Whatever Evolution makes possible via DAPs, it's not here yet. All this proposal does is disburse funds to Tao's payment address. What the text says is close to irrelevant in regards to the DAO. Any "mandate" derived from this proposal is as valid as me making a proposal saying "If this is approved I become king of the world". It remains an overreach and should be corrected.

What you and Walters are saying has changed my mind, I'm most likely wrong here. I also tilted my head at Tao getting 25 Dash but other mods getting almost nothing.

A node to master's comment I really agree on. I also think Tao has done a good job overall with some faults. Governance isn't easy, we need some way of legitimizing roles.

In the end I will keep voting YES this month, but obviously as this is only passing by the thinnest of margins it will be either kicked out by better proposals, or Kumbayas will be sung and differences resolved.

To Quantum, a lot of the mods turned down getting paid. If Tao is thinking about going full time for Dash, this would be a step toward that. I'm totally not speaking for Tao, just observing the situation. I haven't heard a peep from anybody on the team who begrudges him the salary.
solarguy

Yes, although I already work full-time for Dash (more than my casino job), relieving myself of my casino job will lead to a more consistent full-time Dash schedule, with interviews being easier to schedule and such. I’m really looking forward to that. :-)

So you’re full time but you’re not as full time as you would like to be.. ok. That makes complete sense now..

You are actually just taking the piss out of us now..

Walter

Let me warm up my vocal cords... ;-)

You fail to mention that during our last term the price fell sharply, so I was moderating and encouraging Dash Nation standards on the three forums for less than I asked for. The Dash Nation DFO believes in pricing things in Dash, because that’s what we’re all fighting for.

The work that we perform is very important, we’ve seen first-hand the impact of having a community allowed to run with baseless narratives (i.e. Toxic Slack), and it isn’t pretty. Based on that, feel that our reasonable ask is indeed justified.

Thank you for those kind words! My team and I at the Dash Nation DFO take great pride in community-building and outreach. Some folks mistake enforcing clearly posted rules with censorship, and mistake a team of respected community members with centralization. Those are the major bones of contention.

Our methods, however, has remained the same from 5 months ago until now, and will always remain the same in the future. People who violate the rules are dealt with, and the resulting atmosphere is pleasing to long-time members and newcomers alike. Dash Nation includes all Dashers, and we can get past our differences.

Thanks, quantum.

I agree with some of the criticism. I see no reason for 95% of the funds be assigned to TaoOfSatoshi personally; it should be distributed to the whole team. I also do not like how he framed himself as the owner of Dash Nation. Appointed leader is a better term. In the future, I might vote "no" if these issues aren't rectified, but right now the pro's far outweigh cons.

Tao, Troy and rest of the team are on another level of professionalism and friendliness. My understanding is that this proposal grants them authority over the Forum and Reddit, and I would like to see Macrochip and TheDesertLynx removed from admin and moderating roles. I hope we never again see newcomers abused and ridiculed. I read this could have already been done by Fernando and I do not understand his reasoning for not to having taken action already.

I just want to say, in the event that our contract renewal does not pass, it has been a pleasure for my team and I to moderate and encourage Dash Nation standards on the Dash Forum and Dashpay subreddit. We would of course love to continue, but if this turns out to not be supported, I wanted you to know this.

As I said earlier, I will respect your vote.

I just wanted to voice my support for Dash Nation. I started engaging in the Dash Community because I felt at home in the semi-professional environment and in my opinion Tao has done a good job of maintaining it. I think that the "Speculation as Fact" (SAF) rule that is controversial for some, although harsh at times, is instrumental to this environment and is thus very important.

The semi-professional environment on the Dash Nation Discord is one of the things, at least for me, that sets Dash apart from other crypto and it is important that we keep it.

Thanks Aezel for your support. I completely agree that stable, respectful environments are key to nurture camaraderie and further Dash development. This is what the Dash Nation DFO provides.

Dash Watch October 25th 2018 Report on
Dash Nation on Discord Renewal by TaoOfSatoshi
http://bit.ly/DWDashNationOCT18

This has been a difficult decision for me. Tao is a friend of mine. I support moderation in forums. I don't think we want bullying, trolling, or threats.

What has been troubling to me is that I disagree with censorship, and many think their messages have been incorrectly censored. I would like their voices to be taken into account. I also think far too much has been said about DFN creating their own Discord group. DFN should have the right to do that without any backlash. I also don't agree that Tao and his group have a mandate from the MNO community. I would call what they do a service, not a mandate.

Still, I am going to give this another chance. I believe there is time to let the dust settle and get on with the work at hand with a few lessons learned. You have my YES on this proposal. Please consider my concerns.

Thanks.

Thanks for your support, Edward. If you have any concerns about the performance of our team in their duties, my door’s always open. You’re right, we perform a service, and we are here to serve the network above all.

Mr. Carruthers, why do you delete your own flair "Dash Nation Founder" on the r/dashpay subreddit (which I personally assigned to you months ago) and then publicly complain that "someone" deleted your flair?

Do you really need to make up enemies and attackers to make yourself look like a victim? I thought evil DashForce was already harassing you enough? Or was that only in your head all along?

How does this behaviour match up with the values the Dash Nation Founder himself supposedly represents? Is this the kind of honesty we can expect from someone who aspires to become a community leader?

Do you think you deserve 25 Dash a month while displaying this kind of pettiness? Is this "good business": Having a ridiculously overpaid man-child in charge?

Compare Macrochip's tone with Tao's. Which tone do you prefer the broad Dash community to have? To me the difference is as clear as night and day. Macrochip has a long history of insulting, ridiculing, breaking rules and harassing members of the community and newcomers. The amount of damage to the community's reputation this individual has personally caused is many levels of magnitude higher than anything Tao and his team are being accused of.

TroyDash and TaoOfSatoshi are not perfect, but they handle community issues in a far better way.

Thanks for your contribution, but I fear it won’t matter. I continue to be hopeful, however.

The only thing clear as day is your false dichotomy here.

I never suggested myself or anyone else as an alternative like you're trying to portray here, so save the strawman.

Your lies about "my history" are entirely irrelevant to what is being discussed here and constitute a weak "shoot the messenger" tactic. I'm not on the stand here and I'm not asking for 36 Dash here, so stop trying to change the topic.

And just for the record: I have done more for this community than you probably ever will, random MNO nobody ever heard of.

Ah Macrochip, ever the diplomat. solarguy

I deleted it? If that’s the case, I apologize. I admit I’m still learning how to use Reddit, but honestly I’ve tried to reestablish that flair and I haven’t been able to. Maybe you can help me?

This other commentary is really not necessary. Respect the fact that we are all adults, and there are two sides to every story.

Nothing about the performance and results of my team is being questioned here, and as we can see, dialogue helps, but it helps more when it’s respectful, however.

Reddit does not delete flairs by itself. And it doesn't single you out and only deletes yours. Computers don't work like that and I don't think I have to explain why that is... You deleted it and then complained about the deletion, let's be adults and just admit the truth. You can claim you "forgot", but I have TroyDASH's testimony on screenshot that it "happened recently". Is your memory really that bad? I mean I literally remember reading that flair on your username a few days ago.

> I admit I’m still learning how to use Reddit

As I said below: If you seriously want to tell us that after 5 months you still haven't familiarized yourself with the platform you're (over)PAID to moderate, then you have no place moderating it in the first place. Nobody taught me Reddit, I learned it by myself and when you came in I taught you what I know and today you admit you still don't know how to use it properly. What has the DAO beein paying you for all this time? Saying "That's the Dash Nation way" whenever someone makes a nice comment?

This displayed ignorance (feigned or not) alone is a massive testament to your performance and the (lack of) results.

Without assumptions about what happened, I’m telling the truth. Every time I put the flair, hit save, and refreshed the page it was gone. It could have been a Reddit bug. It’s not really relevant to this proposal, anyway, and has been fixed.

I’m always open to learning more about the administrative side of Reddit, as Dash Nation’s job is only to moderate and apply Dash Nation standards to it, and my team and I have done so.

The relevance lies in the fact that you've been paid to administrate a platform and now, after 5 months of Treasury funding, display gross incompetence in how to perform some of the most basic actions on it.

I was not paid to administrate, I was paid to moderate. Please stick to facts, and not misrepresentations.

PS: I'm mostly referring to his explanation of yours: https://i.imgur.com/YkRz2C9.png

"Deletes itself every time". It worked the first, the second and the third time I had to put it back in for you and every time immediately. Maybe your account is cursed by the silicon fairies...?

I’m only telling the truth, like I always have. It’s a non-issue anyway, as it’s been fixed. Thanks!

PS: I gave you back your flair, so you can prance around with it once more. Please don't delete it again, I don't have time to counteract kindergarten tactics for political gain and personal enrichment motives.

Thanks, Macro, but if this is my fault, I’ll take responsibility, there are no ulterior motives here. I’ve tried to reestablish it but I haven’t been able to. Thanks for your help with that.

My opposition would have you believe that their assertions are based in reality. They are using a lot of smoke and mirrors to bamboozle you into thinking that their version of this proposal is true. Everything but the kitchen sink is being thrown at me here in the hopes that something will stick. Here are some examples of what they would have you believe, without factual evidence:

- I am a dictator who employs centralized moderation tactics to unilaterally decide to eliminate comments that I censor based on biased opinions. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

- I am a greedy masternode owner who simply wants the treasury to pay me money while I slink off and enjoy vacations and a life of luxury. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

- I spend little time on Dash, I am just relying on my team every day. (No proof of this, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

- Dash Nation and Kuvacash go together like a hand and glove. (No proof of this, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

- My divisive actions have led to this current community split, and my opposition are simply defenceless pawns in my maniacal plans for Dash domination. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping that you will simply believe this)

- I am supposed to know how to use administrative tools on Reddit, and the fact that I don’t indicates that I haven’t earned the money for moderation that the treasury has been paying me. (Administrative tools were beyond the scope of my job, but let that not get in the way of a good smearing).

- They attempt to further bamboozle you into thinking their opinion is the prevailing one by using vote brigading to raise opposition comments to prominence, and downvoting supportive comments to oblivion.

The preceding points sound good to those who would seek to discredit my team and I, but I would caution you that they are not based on reality. Anyone who knows me can attest to my professionalism, and my desire to contribute to Dash with my attributes of customer service and personnel management.

I have been with Dash since 2014, I have a track record of success doing what I do, and I have assembled a top-quality team of respected Dash community members. We have delivered positive, respectful, inclusive community forums since 2016, and we would simply like to continue to build upon what we’ve started.

The bottom line is this: If you value an engaged, energized, passionate, and respectful community that has three excellent environments for communication and collaboration, vote yes for the Dash Nation DFO. Do not listen to the smoke and mirrors. Do not fall for everything but the kitchen sink. Think about what matters, and how Dash will be in a position to move further ahead as my team and I do our jobs to the best of our ability as we always have.

Cheers, Tao.

My opposition would have you believe that their assertions are based in reality. They are using a lot of smoke and mirrors to bamboozle you into thinking that their version of this proposal is true. Everything but the kitchen sink is being thrown at me here in the hopes that something will stick. Here are some examples of what they would have you believe, without factual evidence:

Guess you join the club Max Yoga is (sorry to hear that).

But even if that the case it's unwise to bring that up, at argument will be used against you, you need to keep everything as proof, screenshots and so on and when you make a claim you should post that as well. Because you're also need hold up the rule don't pass speculation as fact. Perhaps even more so the other-side will run over you in larger numbers. Turning their majority opinion into fact and you're recollection of events played out a "LIE".

>- I am a dictator who employs centralized moderation tactics to unilaterally decide to eliminate comments that I censor based on biased opinions. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

I have provided proof via screenshot from the modlogs of Reddit. Anyone can go and check the pertaining threads to see whether you've informed the user. You did not and that is public. So much for "no proof forthcoming".

>- I am a greedy masternode owner who simply wants the treasury to pay me money while I slink off and enjoy vacations and a life of luxury. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

The proof is in the modchannel of DN where you posted vacation pictures while us moderators had to take care of the server. Every person who was moderator during summer 2018 can attest to your family photos in that channel.

>- I spend little time on Dash, I am just relying on my team every day. (No proof of this, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

While Drako and Tripto were wreaking havoc in the MNO-only channel you were conveniently absent and had to catch up with the discussions later on. This didn't happen once or twice, this happened regularly. During critical times you were simply not there and us mods had to wait for you to show up to give us the final verdict from your cursory skimming of the previous discussions. We weren't allowed to take action ourselves, we were crippled without Master Tao descending from the heavens to give us his decision.

>- Dash Nation and Kuvacash go together like a hand and glove. (No proof of this, they are hoping you will simply believe this)

Oversimplification. You've accused the DashTalk server to "allow anti Kuva rhetoric to permeate". On that server that is called free speech which would be punished on DN, but at the same time DN allows the rhetoric from Kuva against every single proposal in their way to "permeate" as well and DN doesn't do jack about it, because Tao loves Kuva so much, they get a free pass. That is how you go together: By bias.

>- My divisive actions have led to this current community split, and my opposition are simply defenceless pawns in my maniacal plans for Dash domination. (No proof forthcoming, they are hoping that you will simply believe this)

Uhh yeah?! Mark Mason created the new Discord LITERALLY because of what you have said and done in the mod channel where you've declared yourself as the final decision maker. The entire debate was sparked because of the ludicrously weak response towards Drako's detructive rhetoric, so both you and him are directly responsible for the community split. Drako for being himself and you for your (in)actions toward him.

>- I am supposed to know how to use administrative tools on Reddit, and the fact that I don’t indicates that I haven’t earned the money for moderation that the treasury has been paying me. (Administrative tools were beyond the scope of my job, but let that not get in the way of a good smearing).

Oh geez, this is a fun one. The "scope of your job" didn't entail you learning how to use Discord administration tools either and yet you did. How else would you even do your job there? And how else did you kick DashForce mods from your roster so quickly? You clearly are proficient in Discord, but you never gave a damn about Reddit, because "Oh well, someone else will do it for me".

"Scope of my job" is a ridiculos excuse anyway. It is EXPECTED that you learn how to use the platform you're PAID TO ADMINISTRATE. You yourself decided to take over the subreddit for moderation, nobody forced you to do it. So in the end: Yes, you did NOT earn the money from the Treasury for reasons of gross incompetence and unwillingness to familiarize yourself with your working environment.

>- They attempt to further bamboozle you into thinking their opinion is the prevailing one by using vote brigading to raise opposition comments to prominence, and downvoting supportive comments to oblivion.

This is just a paranoid conspiracy theory I don't need to address.

>Anyone who knows me can attest to my professionalism, and my desire to contribute to Dash with my attributes of customer service and personnel management.

Nobody wants to stop you from doing that. You just don't deserve a preposterous 25 Dash for it.

>we would simply like to continue to build upon what we’ve started.

Go on. Do that. But on your Discord. Not on Reddit and not on the Forums. And most certainly not for 36 Dash.

***** ESTEEMED MASTERNODE OWNERS OF DASH: PLEASE READ *****

Thanks for the comments and general interest in our proposal. From the moment the Dash Nation DFO posted our core message here, we have never strayed from it. 215 comments later, every response has been consistent, and clear. I will repost our core message here again for visibility:

In Dash Nation's last proposal, you gave my team and I a vote of confidence of nearly 10-1 in the job we were doing in building a positive, respectful atmosphere on Dash Nation on Discord. You granted us the opportunity to bring the same methods and skills it took to do this to the other three forums. We didn't take that responsibility lightly, and we have done a great job.

r/Dashpay has completely transformed for the better, and serves to attract newcomers. This was unheard of when we started, with daily complaints about community members' behaviour. Dash Forum has been cleaned up as well, it is no longer known for being toxic. These are results that speak for themselves, while Dash Nation on Discord remains the premier place for Dash online communication and collaboration.

I'm the founder of Dash Nation, so let me tell you a little bit about what that means. It means treating people with fairness, respect and dignity. It means positivity towards others and towards tasks. It means encouraging people to do their best, and accepting people from all walks of life, race, or creed. It means doing everything we can to see that Dash becomes the currency of choice for global commerce, and working as a team, all contributing with their strengths to see that goal to reality.

Dash Nation is not just about moderation, it's about encouraging the Dash community to adhere to a higher standard, when dealing with people inside and outside of the community. It's about encouraging them not to submit to preconceived notions when dealing with people from other cryptocurrencies, because we can learn from everyone. It's about representing Dash to the best of our ability, because this will be needed if we aim to be a welcoming community with the goal of mass adoption.

This is my vision, and my team and I work to achieve this every day.

I would ask you to consider the facts surrounding this proposal before placing your vote, which are these:

- You (the network) gave Dash Nation an overwhelming mandate to implement our high standards in all 3 Dash forums.

- The Dash Nation team did what was necessary to make that a reality. We dealt with rule-breakers, we established rules that are well-known and fair, and we began encouraging tipping to further satisfy community members.

- We created a standardized atmosphere where these high standards are encouraged in all 3 forums, and now other members are even starting to encourage themselves, this fills us with pride.

- Internally, we dealt with staffing issues that were holding us back from doing an even better job. With the subtractions and additions, our team is even stronger now than it ever has been.

We now come before the network asking for a continued mandate for our work. Other than a positive staffing change, there really is no change between our last proposal and this one.

Please evaluate this situation carefully, and please support the Dash Nation DFO again for another 5 (five) months. We're looking forward to what results we will achieve this term.

We are here to serve the network. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I will respect your vote.

Onwards and upwards,

Tao Of Satoshi
Dash Nation Founder and Dash Forums Head Moderator

Burying comments that are critical to your proposal again with these long tirades? One sentence paragraphs, repetitive statements of "standards" and "professionalism". This is a sign of desperation.

"- You (the network) gave Dash Nation an overwhelming mandate to implement our high standards in all 3 Dash forums."
Does anyone not have a problem with this statement? These are the words of a power-hungry man hiding behind "my team", "standards", "professionalism", "cleaned up", "expunge" people from forums.

We came to crypto and especially Dash to free the world not fall right back into the same way of thinking.

Why do a lot of the criticisms of my proposal purport to know what I’m thinking, and question my motives? Is it so hard to debate me on the facts?

The facts are these:

- My team and I create positive, respectful communities for Dash to thrive.
- We deliver exactly what we say we will.
- We would simply like to continue our work, and contribute our skills to Dash.

Please debate that, and avoid misrepresentation and putting words in my mouth. Is that so hard? This type of thing is the reason for the Dash Nation DFO proposal in the first place. One of our founding principles is to debate points, not speculation and motives.

“We didn't take that responsibility lightly, and we have done a great job.”

Speculation as fact? Your unilateral actions have managed to split the entire community. Great job!

Walter

This is just a continuation request for funding, nothing more .. nothing less.

If anyone managed to split the entire community then you should look at the actions that Dash Force took, when they applied a moderation change update halfway through their multi-term proposal, making it a direct competitor to this proposal.

Dash Force is starting to get a real shady reputation this way. The overly use of downvoting Tao throughout this proposal only strenghten that shady reputation.

I’ve noted this as well, but I’m not saying anything about it. I will let the MNOs draw their own conclusions about what is happening here.

For our part as Dash Nation DFO, we simply stand behind our results, and our offer to the network to continue seeing and maintaining these results through our ultimate goal: Having an energized, positive, inclusive community to promote Dash around the world and attract like-minded individuals to Dash.

Thanks for your continued support, qwizzie, and for calling a spade a spade. Cheers!

Ok, so what led Dash Force to create a new Discord? There must have been a reason..

Why resort to lies? This is a sure sign that you’ve lost an argument.

Well by your own admission you had over 1050 MNs vote yes to you last time. With a few days to go you have less than half that support. Nothing has changed about your proposal so what could be the problem? Keep telling yourself that it can't possibly be you, if that makes you feel better?

The votes don't lie and even if your proposal scrapes over the line(?) it's clear that your actions, and your actions alone, are the reason for a halving of your support within the community. If losing half your support from the network isn't the definition of a spilt then I don't know what is.

Keep calling me a liar if it makes you feel better, it won't change the facts though and the Masternodes speak the truth.

Walter

There are quite a lot of variables that can lead to different vote totals from month to month. One of which could possibly be a dissatisfaction with our performance, but you keep referring to my actions. Let’s review the history of my actions again, shall we?

- Created Dash Nation Slack, saved the community from the toxic Dash Chat Slack.
- Established rules to encourage positive, respectful dialogue.
- Led the community away from Dash Nation Slack because of lack of compatibility with cryptocurrency communities.
- Established Dash Nation on Discord, and continued to maintain a great atmosphere and refine the experience.
- Brought Dash Nation standards to Dash Forum and Dashpay subreddit, making those forums quality sites for Dash discussion.
- Handled internal conflicts, rejecting those members of my staff who displayed attributes that were not representative of Dash Nation and the atmosphere we created.
- After explaining those actions to the community, wished my detractors well in the new Discord that was secretly created and where clear biases were on display.
- Applied for further network funding so the stellar team we have established can continue and add to our work.
- Made several trips to the other Discord to attempt to bring the community together again in the face of other parties’ decision to allow rampant anti-Dash Nation and anti-Kuvacash rhetoric to permeate on their watch.
- Fielded non-stop unfactual criticisms from the leaders of the other Discord and their believers, and continued to reiterate our original position throughout.

Now, whose actions have led to this split again? Dash Nation is inclusive to all Dashers. Can the actual group responsible for this split say the same?

Dash Force directly competing with this proposal is the problem. Dash Force actively downvoting pretty much every support comment in here is the problem. I strongly dislike power games like these.

It’s not a good look for Dash, but these are grown men. They know exactly what they are doing.

MUST WATCH CATV!
In regards to Dash Nation:
https://youtu.be/AeW5sDGLcMk

Some things every MNO should be aware of:
~~~Discord servers are free~~~
~~~Most of the mods do it for free~~~ Many of the masternode owning mods have stepped up to do the moderation work as volunteers, saying that their masternode rewards are reward enough. They are motivated and do a great job.
~~~The ones who are paid, do it for very little~~~ 1 or 2 dash a month. They do a good job too, from what I've seen.
~~~The Dash community will continue to converse over Discord whether or not this proposal passes~~~ Discord will continue to be a wonderful community outreach tool with or without Tao's help. I'd prefer it to be with his help, but if he won't do it without a salary, the remaining moderators will manage just fine.
~~~The main thing this proposal accomplishes is putting 25 dash a month from the treasury into the pocket of a masternode owner~~~ Apparently just for being a such a great guy.
In my humble opinion, we shouldn't be giving treasury money away to well known personalities just because we like them. We should be spending that money on Evolution or on real adoption efforts in Venezuela and other places, especially in times like these when money is tight, or if nothing else building up buffers if there's room in the budget.

Thanks for your contribution here, @Red. Please allow me to address your points:

~~~Discord servers are free~~~

This is absolutely right. They are. However, as we see in many chat rooms that suffer from lack of guidance and leadership, they can very quickly deteriorate into toxic, aggressive wastelands. The team at Dash Nation DFO provides stable, positive, respectful community communications channels, and not just on Discord, but also the same experience on Reddit, and on Dash Forum. There is a lot of work involved to make this happen.

~~~Most of the mods do it for free~~~

This is incorrect. Half of the part-time moderators volunteer, the other half would like to get paid. When you do a good job, masternode operator or not, it is not unreasonable to ask for compensation, in my view.

~~~The ones who are paid, do it for very little~~~ 1 or 2 dash a month.

As I've explained earlier in this thread, my moderators are part-time. There are no set hours for them to be around, the only stipulation is that they attend regularly (not shy away for weeks at a time), and contribute to the moderation work and offer opinions on operations when they are around.

~~~The Dash community will continue to converse over Discord whether or not this proposal passes~~~

This is true. However, our proposal is about much more than just Discord. It's about maintaining a top-notch atmosphere in all three main Dash forums, while encouraging the community to adhere to a higher standard. It's also about outreach, with Dash Decentral, Cash Alternative TV and an upcoming Spanish language program on the horizon. It's about making sure the Dash community is seen in the most positive way possible, through ours and the community's interactions with members of other cryptocurrency communities. This proposal is about much more than just Discord, please don't suggest otherwise.

~~~The main thing this proposal accomplishes is putting 25 dash a month from the treasury into the pocket of a masternode owner~~~

Also incorrect, and quite frankly insulting. The work my team and I do, and the results we've achieved for Dash speak for themselves. The success of Dash Nation on Discord led to these standards also being applied to Reddit and Dash Forum, which we have also turned into quality environments to converse with fellow Dashers. In short, the Dash Nation DFO has achieved success wherever it has implemented its standards. Add to that my interactions with members of the community that need help, organizing the YouTube shows, promoting others through the use of my Twitter channel, and being an all-round example of the positive, respectful manner I would like the Dash community to live each day, this is about a lot more than the remuneration aspect you chose to highlight. I believe in honest pay for honest work, and I am putting a lot of work in here. Results don't achieve themselves.

"In my humble opinion, we shouldn't be giving treasury money away to well known personalities just because we like them."

This I can agree with. This is not what this proposal is about, though, as I've explained above (and below a couple of times). I hope my responses here have allayed the concerns you have about the workings of the Dash Nation DFO.

Cheers,
Tao.

"... quite frankly insulting."

Tao, I offer my evaluation as a matter of business. It is regrettable if you choose to take offense, but that is your choice. My sincere hope is that you are able to separate business interactions from personal.

My conclusions simply do not agree with yours. You are essentially saying that your are special: that absent your influence, our positive, respectful community would be a toxic wasteland. I make a careful appraisal when I vote, and I can't reasonably agree with what you are saying. Your argument implies a dim view of our community. If anything, I should be the one insulted. The Dash community is full of intelligent, capable, motivated, respectful (I could go on) people who can do what you do, and who won't demand 1/10th of what you are demanding. You are valuable, but you are not invaluable. It's an economic judgement, and it's not personal. If I'm wrong, I'm sure it will come out in the votes.

@Red why are you allowed to say:
" The main thing this proposal accomplishes is putting 25 dash a month from the treasury into the pocket of a masternode owner"

But Tao is not allowed to say how he feels about it ?

If you would read that message from his perspective, you'd be quit insulted as well, I know certainly I would.

Question for you Red:
Seeing you also own a masternode ? So you should do the work for free and take over from Tao ?

That’s fine. We can agree to disagree, but a few things need to be made clear:

- I do not believe I am “special”, I believe my team and I have brought results to the table that simply weren’t there before. It would not take a stretch of the imagination to believe that the environment on Reddit and Dash Forum would eventually revert back to the state it was five months ago before we started. Would the masternodes be OK with this? That’s up to them to decide.

- You’re absolutely right that the community is filled with talented people, and I would appreciate it if your “business evaluation” didn’t contain straw men, because I have never said anything opposite of that, here or anywhere. Our proposal is about the whole community adhering to a higher standard.

I stand by my offer to the network. The Dash Nation DFO’s results speak for themselves, and future plans to bring the entire community (not just the talented people) remain in place and will be even further improved.

I’m all for critiques, but please don’t misrepresent the situation and put words in my mouth.

Thanks.

I offered you a respectful appraisal, and you offer only accusations. Are those the words of a leader promoting a respectful environment? You are incrementally losing my respect with each reply.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of our conversation.

***** DASH NETWORK: PLEASE READ *****

In Dash Nation's last proposal, you gave my team and I a vote of confidence of nearly 10-1 in the job we were doing in building a positive, respectful atmosphere on Dash Nation on Discord. You granted us the opportunity to bring the same methods and skills it took to do this to the other three forums. We didn't take that responsibility lightly, and we have done a great job.

r/Dashpay has completely transformed for the better, and serves to attract newcomers. This was unheard of when we started, with daily complaints about community members' behaviour. Dash Forum has been cleaned up as well, it is no longer known for being toxic. These are results that speak for themselves, while Dash Nation on Discord remains the premier place for Dash online communication and collaboration.

I'm the founder of Dash Nation, so let me tell you a little bit about what that means. It means treating people with fairness, respect and dignity. It means positivity towards others and towards tasks. It means encouraging people to do their best, and accepting people from all walks of life, race, or creed. It means doing everything we can to see that Dash becomes the currency of choice for global commerce, and working as a team, all contributing with their strengths to see that goal to reality.

Dash Nation is not just about moderation, it's about encouraging the Dash community to adhere to a higher standard, when dealing with people inside and outside of the community. It's about encouraging them not to submit to preconceived notions when dealing with people from other cryptocurrencies, because we can learn from everyone. It's about representing Dash to the best of our ability, because this will be needed if we aim to be a welcoming community with the goal of mass adoption.

This is my vision, and my team and I work to achieve this every day.

I would ask you to consider the facts surrounding this proposal before placing your vote, which are these:

- You (the network) gave Dash Nation an overwhelming mandate to implement our high standards in all 3 Dash forums.

- The Dash Nation team did what was necessary to make that a reality. We dealt with rule-breakers, we established rules that are well-known and fair, and we began encouraging tipping to further satisfy community members.

- We created a standardized atmosphere where these high standards are encouraged in all 3 forums, and now other members are even starting to encourage themselves, this fills us with pride.

- Internally, we dealt with staffing issues that were holding us back from doing an even better job. With the subtractions and additions, our team is even stronger now than it ever has been.

We now come before the network asking for a continued mandate for our work. Other than a positive staffing change, there really is no change between our last proposal and this one.

Please evaluate this situation carefully, and please support the Dash Nation DFO again for another 5 (five) months. We're looking forward to what results we will achieve this term.

We are here to serve the network. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I will respect your vote.

Onwards and upwards,

Tao Of Satoshi
Dash Nation Founder and Dash Forums Head Moderator

So even after I called you out on Discord via tag you just repeat the lie about the subreddit being "completely transformed" to sugarcoat your resumé? Since you're forcing my hand, I have to correct the record on that.

The dashpay subreddit HARDLY CHANGED AT ALL. Starting tipping in the very last month of the proposal only after people started asking questions about what happened to all those funds does not count.

There were no "daily complaints" and I challenge anyone to prove the contrary. The complaints that DID exist didn't go away at all. The only thing that happened was a shift of targets: Instead of me being disparaged and attacked for "tyrannical moderation" the trolls are now focused on Tao the "subreddit dictator". So how about that for "completely transformed"? To be clear: The complaints NEVER happened on the subreddit itself (neither before nor after Tao assumed the position), but on other places I will not name specifically but which are well known and well frequented.

Let it be known that Tao has done almost nothing on the subreddit except for deleting comments he personally deemed "speculation passed as fact" without consulting any other moderators (which goes directly against his own stated policy). Here is proof: https://i.imgur.com/QYFU8gB.png

He did not update the sidebar.
He did not maintain the wiki.
He did not implement any kind of new designs, neither on the old nor the new template.
He did not maintain the sticky section with important information.
He did not launch "daily discussion" threads or anything else to stimulate community engagement as it is customary on other subreddits.
I could go on about things he didn't do you'd expect from someone BEING PAID to run a subreddit. I did many of that and I'm NOT paid.

When asked whether a Reddit user noticed any differences from before Tao assumed moderation duties of r/dashpay to after he said there weren't any after explaining that spam went down due to me modifying the automoderator. Proof: https://i.imgur.com/fUh9rwh.png

You've paid him 15 Dash for that performance each month and now you're going to pay him 25 Dash to do the same thing: Hardly anything. While he's still holding a day job.

And he even had the nerve to publicly announce that he'll have ME removed from my mod position there because I do not represent values that HE made up himself with his "brand". Good thing Fernando isn't down with this kind of nonsense. I strongly recommend reading this comment thread (https://old.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/9n5unz/eli5_the_drama_on_dash_nation/e7k5qve/ Backup: https://archive.is/Bs00j) dissecting Tao's logic and his mission to "expunge all traces" of Dash Force. Funny thing to say after publishing an article titled "Burying the hatchet" (http://www.dashnation.com/news/burying-the-hatchet-lets-move-on-for-dash/), don't you think? I guess it's called political campaigning.

I didn't want to post this, Tao, but as I said, you forced my hand. I will not let you get away with smearing me and my achievement. I built that subreddit over the years and never asked for a damn Duff for it and you don't get to shit all over it with lies just to personally enrich yourself with a shameless ask of 25 Dash per month, which is most likely more than the average DASH DEVELOPER gets. Shame on you.

FYI: I do not recognize any type of "mandate" from you upon the subreddit. A proposal text saying "Dash owns the moon" holds as much power as you putting a claim on the sub.

To Macrochip. I don't think anybody is denying you put a lot of work into DashPay. But your moderation style was very unprofessional. There were a -lot- of complaints. And this is by your own admission, so this is a quote,
"Tons of People Have complained about me in the past. Do you know what happened? Nothing" - @Macrochip
"I'm known as the asshole mod and I thrive on that image" - @Macrochip

I bring this up to emphasize, that there has been a definite change on Dashpay. You do not moderate DashPay in that way any more.
solarguy

I never claimed to be professional, simply because I'm not and never was (and never will be in regards to the sub), so what is your point? I'm not the one being paid 15, soon 25 Dash a month to do anything. I never asked for anything an I'm 100% unpaid.

The "definite change" you talk about is in your head. As I already laid out, complaints about me merely shifted towards Tao. In fact the activity on the "uncensored" subreddit vastly increased after Tao assumed mod duties on the sub.

As for me: I hardly moderate at all these days. My style never changed.

I was responding to your claim that DashPay has not changed in any meaningful way now that it's under new management and rules. It has. You don't moderate it in that unprofessional manner any more. In my estimation, your attitude was hurting Dash. I could publish an old reddit message I sent to you where I begged you to not abuse people. You essentially told me to piss off and mind my own business.
solarguy

"The dashpay subreddit HARDLY CHANGED AT ALL. Starting tipping in the very last month of the proposal only after people started asking questions about what happened to all those funds does not count."

I will not personally argue this, I will simply leave it up to the masternode owners if they agree with this statement. I maintain that the subreddit is in much better shape than it was before my team and I started, but draw your own conclusions on that.

"There were no "daily complaints" and I challenge anyone to prove the contrary. The complaints that DID exist didn't go away at all. The only thing that happened was a shift of targets: Instead of me being disparaged and attacked for "tyrannical moderation" the trolls are now focused on Tao the "subreddit dictator"."

Regarding the state of the subreddit, I will leave this up to the neutral observer to ascertain whether or not the atmosphere is better now or 5 months ago. The only complaints we have about our moderation are from people who have been moderated, or from people who were deemed to not be up to the standards that Dash Nation wants to provide.

"Let it be known that Tao has done almost nothing on the subreddit except for deleting comments he personally deemed "speculation passed as fact" without consulting any other moderators (which goes directly against his own stated policy). Here is proof: https://i.imgur.com/QYFU8gB.png"

My team and I have not only moderated, but also contributed towards a better environment on Reddit, with people respecting each other, including visiting members of other currencies. This environment did not exist until the Dash Nation team began operations there.

"He did not update the sidebar.
He did not maintain the wiki.
He did not implement any kind of new designs, neither on the old nor the new template.
He did not maintain the sticky section with important information.
He did not launch "daily discussion" threads or anything else to stimulate community engagement as it is customary on other subreddits.
I could go on about things he didn't do you'd expect from someone BEING PAID to run a subreddit. I did many of that and I'm NOT paid."

I'm still learning the ropes when it comes to Reddit, but I have no problem doing any of those things, upon learning how to do them, with the exception of the "Daily Discussion", that sounds pretty straight-forward, and a good idea, to be honest.

"When asked whether a Reddit user noticed any differences from before Tao assumed moderation duties of r/dashpay to after he said there weren't any after explaining that spam went down due to me modifying the automoderator. Proof: https://i.imgur.com/fUh9rwh.png"

While this person is entitled to their opinion, it does not mean that his opinion is any more valid than yours or mine. Whether or not the subreddit is in better shape now or then is up to the masternode network to decide. So far the support for what we have done is there.

"You've paid him 15 Dash for that performance each month and now you're going to pay him 25 Dash to do the same thing: Hardly anything. While he's still holding a day job."

I'm being paid because I provide what I said I would: A stable, positive, inclusive and respectful environment for Dash to thrive, and to attract like-minded individuals to the cause of Dash. Not to mention our YouTube shows and outreach I have done for free for many years. With regards to my hours of work, as I told @Walter, I work far more hours for Dash than I do for the casino, but the casino supervisory position I hold gives me the professional aptitude to do the job of moderator and community organizer at a high level.

"And he even had the nerve to publicly announce that he'll have ME removed from my mod position there because I do not represent values that HE made up himself with his "brand". Good thing Fernando isn't down with this kind of nonsense. I strongly recommend reading this comment thread (https://old.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/9n5unz/eli5_the_drama_on_dash_nation/e7k5qve/ Backup: https://archive.is/Bs00j) dissecting Tao's logic and his mission to "expunge all traces" of Dash Force. Funny thing to say after publishing an article titled "Burying the hatchet" (http://www.dashnation.com/news/burying-the-hatchet-lets-move-on-for-dash/), don't you think? I guess it's called political campaigning."

I stand by this recommendation. You do not have the skill set needed to be an efficient community manager. You are abrasive, quick to judgement, and biased when it comes to dealing with visitors from outside currencies. These are all things that my team and I actively avoid. It's not personal, as I said I like you, I also want what's best for Dash, and everyone in Dash Nation should contribute with their strengths. I think you would excel in a swarm type of environment.

"I didn't want to post this, Tao, but as I said, you forced my hand."

I'm happy you did. I'm not shying away from anything, my door is always open. Without criticism, you will never improve.

" I built that subreddit over the years and never asked for a damn Duff for it and you don't get to shit all over it with lies just to personally enrich yourself with a shameless ask of 25 Dash per month, which is most likely more than the average DASH DEVELOPER gets."

Great. I have also contributed many, many hours for free for the cause of Dash. I'm not asking for any glory for that. And, as I said before, I stand by the Dash Nation DFO contract renewal terms because I feel that we bring a stabilizing influence to the three main forums. Without this, well you only have to look as far as the BTC split to realize what happens when communities are allowed to run amok with baseless narratives and censorship. The Dash community is in a great place right now, and my team and I would simply like to continue our work.

"FYI: I do not recognize any type of "mandate" from you upon the subreddit. A proposal text saying "Dash owns the moon" holds as much power as you putting a claim on the sub."

We will discuss all moderation team issues with the administrators (Dash Core Group) in the event of a successful contract renewal.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain some things to the masternode network. My team and I have been doing this a long time, and have had many successes. We simply would like your blessing to continue.

Tao.

You know what's funny? You imply I'm the one asking for glory for my achievements. Well, I'm most definitely not, I'm just asking you to not misrepresent the past but even if I was: I'm not asking for 25 Dash to line my own pockets here. Whatever "glory" I could hope to get, it's not worth 125 Dash.

>I'm still learning the ropes when it comes to Reddit,

No, not really. I told you the important stuff in the mod channel back when you assumed duties. Also: You took over 5 months ago and you want to tell us you STILL haven't familiarized yourself with your workplace yet? Any serious employer would've fired you long ago.

>Not to mention our YouTube shows and outreach I have done for free for many years.

LOL. 56 videos since 2016 with an average view count well below 1000. Your biggest hit has 18k and only because it features Roger Ver. Followed by a 5k video with scammer Charlie Shrem. The rest is hardly worth any mention. This is not what successful outreach looks like. Also much applause on doing it "for free": The network fully paid for your equipment and in this very proposal you're justifying your own outrageous 25 Dash salary by proclaiming to make more CATV videos, despite your promise of doin them for free anyway. So which is it? Can't have it both ways.

Also good job on evading the core arguments I've made. Dash Force is the victim of your personal hissy fit and you're too proud and self-absorbed to admit your overreaction.

"You (the network) gave Dash Nation an overwhelming mandate to implement our high standards in all 3 Dash forums."

I was not aware that I did that, sorry for the misunderstanding. I don't want that. I am fine with you being the one with the last word on your Discord, but not the rest.

Tao has done a great job building Dash Nation imo. My only concern is allowing moderators a bit much freedom to make decisions and recommendations based on their very subjective perspective. I hope Dash Nation continues to be a free speech platform for everyone to enjoy.

The above is simply a remark. I still think we're on the right track and support this project.

Appreciate the support. Encouraging the Dash community to adhere to a high standard will pay dividends moving forward.

Darkcoins, you can be assured that it’s a total team effort. Thanks for your kind words! We won’t let you down for supporting us in our mission to encourage and provide positive and respectful community forums.

The Dash Nation DFO team and myself appreciate all of the constructive criticism and feedback we have received up to this point. Our mission is to encourage and provide positive, respectful, inclusive and semi-professional community forums. The results of our work can be seen every day in the three main Dash forums, with most Dashers starting to work as a team, and supporting each other for the betterment of Dash.

Please keep commenting, as it gives the team and I an opportunity to explain our results, the methods in which we achieved those results, and the reasons why those results are important to Dash.

A big thank you to the MNOs of the 16 MNs that have changed their votes from NO to YES. Thanks for giving the Dash Nation DFO a fair chance to earn your vote, and for allowing the system to work.

Cheers,

Tao.

I undertook a spot QA check on the forum moderation quality/effectiveness today and have sent at least 50 REPORT messages of spammer accounts and spam messages in just one day on the Dash Forum. These were obvious spam messages and SPAM accounts yet they are being allowed to post junk on our forum.

What I have now realised is that they are deliberately posting junk messages so that new messages do not show in the NEW POSTS section. This means valuable contributions by community members are not being noticed by the community because the new messages is full of these spam messages. Even a cursory look you can see these spammers by looking at their past posts which are all junk.

Isn't part of the moderation team's role to stop this sort of abuse of the forum? If not I would suggest that a new account should require a small amount of DASH to open the account at the forum from now on. This would put off new spammy accounts that are being opened in their hundreds. If someone is serious about DASH I honestly do not see them mind paying say 5 USD worth of DASH to open an account. It will then screen out all these SPAM messages.

I sent at least 50 report messages related to SPAM in just one day. It is clear something needs to be done about this issue because it is damaging to the forum quality. Some high quality forum articles are simply not being noticed by the community due to this issue.

Is it part of the moderation team's remit to deal with Spammers? If so what procedure do you have in place to pro-actively find and deal with a spammer's account?

Spam accounts on Dash Forum are created and removed daily. While there are some blatantly obvious cases of spam, others are not so cut-and-dry and must be further monitored to make an informed decision.

In some cases, the automod flags such posts, in others we find them manually. Moderation is not an exact science, open to interpretation. The team on Dash Forum, both inside and outside the Dash Nation DFO, do the best job we can to deal with spammers in a fair and reasonable way.

Hope that answer helps.

I really don't mind paying 1 cent to post. If we had a custom built forum, we could do it.

to DeepBlue. The mod team is also looking for more efficient and automated methods to cut the spam down to a minimum. Of course, it is a cat and mouse game that escalates methods forever. But you may rest assured that the mod team watches for spam, deletes spam and responds to reports of spam.
solarguy

@stillcantstop thank you for your feedback.

I just took a look at the NEW POSTS section (a hour after your posting this comment), and i dont see any spam posts in there.
Which makes me kinda doubt your claim that these junk messages you are referring to, are used as a means to block new messages
of visiblity in the NEW POST section.

Link :

https://www.dash.org/forum/ (New Posts, to the right)
https://www.dash.org/forum/find-new/1880511/posts

I think these spam/junk posts that we see from time to time (which do get deleted, so far i can tell), are far more random of nature and to be exspected in a forum that gets daily activity.

Also the NEW POSTS on the mainscreen, https://www.dash.org/forum/ (New Posts, to the right) only has room for 10 posts, which means that rotation within those 10 posts is going pretty fast anyways.

Thanks for that input, @qwizzie.

@qwizzie are you a forum moderator? If so can you take a look at the messages I've reported today to the forum. If you are not a moderator could you confirm with TaoOfSatoshi or one of the other moderators how many messages / accounts I've reported today that are SPAM and ask them to post the number of reports here and to confirm if they are SPAMMERS or not. I estimated I've reported around 50 SPAM reports that I personally made today.

I'm not a forum moderator, i'm a masternode owner that is replying with his own opinion to your comment about junk messages being deliberatly posted to deny visibility to new posts. Personally i think that is a farfetch conclusion at this point. I also think dash.org/forum is not really well-suited to emphasize new posts, due to its limited visibility on main screen (10 posts max and high rotation within those 10 posts).

That does not mean i dont want to know how moderators or site administrators handle spam accounts on dash.org/forum, so i await Dash Nation moderators response. The junk posts i saw in the past in this forum, were mostly from newly created accounts with just one post (their junk post). If you came across accounts that are still active and to be considered junk/spam accounts then that is wearth looking into.

Far fetched? Really? Have you looked at the sample links to messages I sent?

I have noticed if I make a constructive criticism about moderation on this proposal I'm either disbelieved or labelled as far fetched.

Let me state this for the record. I like and respect TaoOfSatoshi and the work he does. I'm not having a go at Tao. When there is something that is clearly not right we have to bring it up if things are to get better.

SPAM is being used to block quality articles from being noticed. I notice that if a post I make appears in the New Posts it gets a large number of views. If it is not present in the new posts it does not get noticed. That is a fact.

Could you explain you reasoning in stating my feedback is far fetched? I don't understand. I'm giving valuable feedback to improve the forum with factual data . These low quality spam postings are excluding quality articles from being noticed by the rest of the community. I know this for a fact from my own observations of my articles - which I spent days of work editing. which you can see here:

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/a-case-for-venezuela-why-focus-dash-promotion-in-venezuela-and-latin-america.40419/

I feel that people here are just too pro Tao to the point of being illogical to defend him. I've given the posts. You can look at them yourself. They are all garbage and the user has posted absolutely nothing of value which you can see from going to their profile page and simply clicking on their POSTINGS link. Here is the link to isosocial profile page: https://www.dash.org/forum/members/icosocial.31516/

Hi DeepBlue,
Thanks for helping out with the QA. I agree that the Marketplace section of the forum is absolutely quite spammy. Cleaning up this section of the forum has not been high on my/our priority list - as long as the users have stuck to that section and not delved into other areas of the forum, they have been given quite a lot of leeway up to this point. It's definitely something we can improve IMO and thanks for pointing out the fact that stuff from there shows up on that recent posts page a little too often. I am not sure what the plan will be for this section yet, but I appreciate the feedback.

@TroyDASH. Sincerely, I thank you for this reply. I spent many hours yesterday to prepare those reports and give this feedback with the aim of improving the participation of the forum. I feel one of the reasons people are using the forum less is due to this low quality postings that are preventing quality posts being noticed in the New Posts. I know this from my own experience. I have spent days of time putting together a posting and when it enters the NEW POST section there are a flood of new readers. But as soon as it leaves the NEW POST section the readers drop right off. The time it spends in the NEW POSTS is now around 30 minutes. Then it is gone. I have noticed that the 50 or so posts I reported yesterday are posts with no quality simply posted with some text that adds nothing to the thread simply posted to disrupt the normal functioning of a forum. Apparently the name given to this type of post "shitpost" . I don't like using that type of word but actually it is a word used to describe this type of posting. These types of post could be posted by a bot. This explains why many of the posts I reported even had placeholder texts in the titles. That suggests that some of these posts could have been bots - in which case they could be blocked.

The main these "shitposts" have is they are stopping forum members seeing the quality content that is posted and so that content is going unread.

If you want to know what effect this is having on a member I can speak from my own experience. I trully am not motivated to post new articles in the forum due to this issue.
The thread I worked on took several days of research to put together. Recently some people commented on the post and it went into the new posts but hardly anyone noticed it because of the "shitposts" pushing it out of the NEW POSTS section within 30 minutes.
If quality posts were only registered in the NEW POSTS then the article would remain in the NEW POSTS section for considerably longer time and therefore it would get much better exposure by community members. This is why I raised this as an issue. I am not feeling motivated to contribute new quality content. If I feel like that then perhaps others quality content writers are also feeling the same. It is the quality content writers that are affected because we have taken so much time to put the posts together. The community are also affected because they do not notice the content.

If you have not seen one of my posts please take a look at this post I wrote.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/a-case-for-venezuela-why-focus-dash-promotion-in-venezuela-and-latin-america.40419/

I had plans to submit a series of essays on Venezuela but with my posts not getting noticed due to this issue and similar ones I am simply not feeling motivated to continue to contribute to the forum.

I would suggest that the "New Posts" section have some sort of criteria that screens for people that have made only quality posts in the past. e.g. a Post that has been at least once marked as a quality post by a moderator or someone that has genuine trophy points as judged by a moderator. I feel this would significantly improve the ability for quality posts to be noticed.

In addition I suspect some of these postings are made by SPAM bots. In which case they could be filtered by Blacklisting services such as fspamlist, StopForumSpam and BotScout
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_spam and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNSBL

The distinguishing factor is that of all the messages I reported these users *consistently* post messages that are not of value to enrich the quality of the thread. There are no constructive comments in any of the history of the accounts I reported. These should be deleted in my opinion because they are consistently "shitposting" (my apologies again for having to use this word)

If you do not wish to delete these accounts then perhaps prevent these accounts from entering "New Posts"

The problem can go some way to being improved if the New Posts section should only registered people from people known to post quality content so that these posts get noticed. Alternatively there ought to be some criteria that marks the quality of a contribution by a user and once they have gone above a threshold based on quality postings then they earn the right to enter the New Posts section. This encourages people to write quality content.

The forums are getting less popular as noted by the pre-proposals for funding not getting the traffic they used to. A big part of that, I believe, is that quality content writers are getting fed up and simply leaving the forum because clicking on "shitpost" content is destroying our experience of the forum and not having our content highlighted is hugely demotivating. I, for one, am not motivated to write new content on the forum. I'm not saying I will stop. I am however saying the articles I had planned I will not now be posting.

Thanks for the blacklisting service suggestion, if there is a quality service that can be used it could save all of us a lot of trouble. The forum does have some auto-mod functionality - sometimes it will auto-flag a post as requiring mod review before it shows publicly, and it is almost never wrong. But most of the spam posts get through the filter, so it is probably not going far enough. This is something we would need the site admins to assist with. I am not sure whether DCG has a resource available that could be assigned to work on this right now, but I'll pass the idea forward

There is an official term to what I'm describing i.e. lots of low quality posts designed to disrupt or damage the healthy functioning of a discussion forum. According to Wikipedia the behaviour I have described is officially called "shitposting"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitposting

I notice there are some new shitposts today in the GENERAL section of the forum and once again some of the contributors are the ones I've already reported yesterday. Again with inane contributions.

Here are the Shitposts in the General section of forum today 12:00 CEST time:

https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/general-discussion.2/

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/calculation-orderly-oneself-to-above-board-slim-abnormal-and-membrane.41347/

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pay-to-name-evolution-concept.41334/

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/how-do-i-start-crypto-currency-trading.40735/

If you read the above posts ask yourself these questions:

Have these post added value to the forum?

Have these post taught me something new or enabled me to see things from a new perspective?

Have these posts challenged my way of thinking?

Have these posts enabled me to better understand someone's point of view?

Have these posts elaborated on a worthwhile theme that is associated with DASH?

If we deleted these posts what damage would it do to the forum? What would we lose?

In my opinion these are "shitposts" They are pushing valuable content articles further down the page which means they are damaging quality posts because content "below the fold" of the page is less frequently read. Therefore they are disrupting the health of the forum in my opinion.

I dont really like the word "Shitposts" being used here, eventhough apparantely it is a word that is known on Wikipedia. I'm more comfortable with classifying these as low quality posts.

I read a lot of threads in the Bitcointalk forum (specifically the Altcoin Discussion section and the Altcoin Speculation section) and a lot of low quality posts are posted there also, which are not getting deleted due to their "low quality". Mostly they seem to be lacking correct english or lacking a well-defined opinion on the topic itself but they are allowed there.

I believe that low quality posters both in this dash/org/forum and in other forums can learn to post higher quality posts over time by simply having the forum engage with them (for example ask them to clarify their post or provide more information), instead of deleting their posts or banning their accounts from the start. Most of these low quality posters seem to just got in contact with crypto, without knowing it very well (i would call them crypto newbees).

If we start deleting low-quality posters and banning their accounts, then i fear this will lead to less daily activity on the Dash.org/forum and a less friendly environment for newbees to post and get educated on crypto and in the end provide higher quality posts.

Can you please explain why you think the "pay-to-name-evolution-concept" from Camosoul is a "shitpost", when we are even having a proposal polling of the network about it ?
(https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DIP5-BlockchainUsernamePricingModel)

Unless you are referring to a specific comment inside that thread, but so far i can tell none of the comments qualify as being labeled a "shitpost" and they all seem to be on-topic.

Same with the "how do i start crypto currency trading", why do you consider this a "shitpost" exactly ? Do you mean the whole thread or a specific comment ? The comments all seem pretty much on-topic and are obviously of interest to those that participate in that discussion.

If the only reason for classifying these posts as "shitposts" is because they push other threads (that you personally deem more valuable) further down the page, then there is something seriously wrong with your moderator views.

A moderator should not prioritize one thread over another, all threads should be handled equally and objectively.
If a moderator starts to prioritize threads as he sees fit, then that forum moderation will have lost its objectivity.

@DeepBlue We are more than willing to have a discussion with the administrators of the forum to see if something can be done with regards to the low-quality posts. Please realize though it's a fine line to walk, because sometimes what you regard as a shitpost may just be someone who is not the best at English. It's a tough one, because we don't want to ban valid users, and sometimes it can be difficult to ascertain. I'm willing to start a dialogue into ways of fixing this issue, as I agree it's annoying.

@TaoOfSatoshi I definitely agree with you that this is a big challenge to deal with and I am not saying this is easy. I am simply highlighting the issue and making you, the other moderators and the community fully aware of this situation and the negative effect it is having on my motivation to write anything of value for the forum henceforth.

When you read the above posts can you answer any of the above questions in a positive way? How have these posts contributed positively to the forum. Could you please state specifically what the positive contribution is from these posts. Can anyone here state the positive aspect of any part of those posts? If not they are Shitposts.

If you look at the history of these people making these posts you will see they are all shitposts. There is nothing of any real value. That is how I'm spotting these. Their history is the same - no valuable contribution just inane comments.

Even someone with poor grasp of the English language can still structure a broken sense to have value, an insight, something to take away that is worthwhile. It is not the quality of English I'm commenting on. It is the quality of the content itself, not the grammar or the spelling. The quality of the content is non existent.

Once the problem has been clearly identified and people are made aware of this issue then at least we might be able to start to develop solutions for them. I've already made a few suggestions to handle this situation. I'm sure if the moderators and admins got together you could develop other solutions that would reduce this issue. Thanks for this post Tao. I felt from posts yesterday that my feedback was not welcomed here by some of the responses I received.

Existing thread from different user : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/does-anyone-have-experience-with-pump-dump.29249/#post-199938
Reply isosocial : "well today we say huge pump/dump in the whole market! its every where now"

* This does not indicate a spam post to me. sorry

Existing thread of different user : The World’s Most Advanced Token
Reply isosocial : lol, who said its The World’s Most Advanced Token ???

* This does not indicate a spam post to me. sorry

isosocial own newly created thread : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/increase-your-group-channel-members-with-100-real-targeted-ico-members.41336/#post-199943

* that was the one thread i suggested could possibly be against the rules, but Tao just informed us that its location (marketplace) makes it less prone to moderation.

So yes, i looked at your three spam examples eventhough i'm not a forum moderator.

@DeepBlue The Dash Nation DFO is always open to constructive criticism. Without such, we will never improve. Creating positive, respectful, inclusive Dash forums and encouraging the same from the Dash community is our mission. Thanks for your input here.

@TaoOfSatoshi - Gracias amigo.

@qwizzie I am looking right now at the NEW POSTS time 20:38 CEST time at the NEW Posts. The messages posted by user "Isosocial" are SPAM messages.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/increase-your-group-channel-members-with-100-real-targeted-ico-members.41336/#post-199943

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/the-world’s-most-advanced-token.41097/#post-199940

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/does-anyone-have-experience-with-pump-dump.29249/#post-199938

I’m not sure what you’re looking at, @DeepBlue, but the General Discussion forum is clean of spam messages.

Posts to the MarketPlace section that are not blatant spam are usually allowed, as the team is not going to vet every single business that posts there. Buyer beware is a concept that most are familiar with. Such posts outside of MarketPlace will be dealt with as well as humanly possible, however I’m sure some still get through.

The team is currently evaluating the reports you sent.

I have also taken a screenshot to show that all of the above are spam messages currently now present in the New Posts.

You can download the screenshot here: https://cp.sync.com/dl/d5ecf0540#bskfqkdj-r59c5d4i-z7xtxvfp-r5wvtnnj You can see the user isosocial posting multiple times in the NEW POSTS with garbage messages. This has been going on all day long.

I looked at isosocial posting history (pure out of curiousity) and 3 of his posts are replies to existing threads in the Alternative Currencies section and i'm not sure they are indeed spam/ junk in nature. He did create one ICO thread in Marketplace, that is still visible mainscreen and could possibly be against forum rules (i dont think ICO's are allowed to be promoted there).

What is happening in the new posts section of dash.org/forum on the main screen is that it also seem to include replies on existing threads. So if a user creates a new thread and also replies a few times to existing threats that he finds interesting, then it could give the impression of spam in the New Posts section on the main screen.

One has to wonder though if the user is to blame for that or if it is simply a case of how the forum is setup with regards to the New Posts on main screen.

Qwizzie, I just looked at that thread. It’s not an ICO thread, it’s simply claims to be an enterprise that will help you promote your ICO.

Not sure why he thinks he’ll get business from the Dash community, but to each their own! :-)

That clears that up, thanks.

@qwizzie I find it somewhat shocking that you actually rate isosocial's replies as replies. They are of absolutely no value whatsoever to the forum. They add no factual data not even a valid opinion. No coherent, argument, no expansion upon previous topics or themes, Unrelated garbage that has nothing to do with DASH and posted within the already irrelevant threads that have nothing to do with DASH anyway. He/she/it can't even string words together into a sentence. But you rate these are replies good enough to warrant not being SPAM? Really?

Below are all the postings from isosocial: I can't see anything of any value in any of these comments. I can't even call them comments. They are incoherent strung together words. They don't even have that status as far as I am concerned.

Here are isosocial's replies which has nothing to do with the original postings:

If these types of replies are welcomed by MNOs and the Dash moderators and even defended by MNOs then I think I'm wasting my time making quality posts at the forum. This is nothing short of GARBAGE (in my opinion). Clearly you think differently. So let the community decide. What do you think of isosocial replies -these are all of his postings to date. I have copied and pasted them below as of this day and time.

Reply 1:

"lol
who said its
The World’s Most Advanced Token
???"


Reply 2
well today we say huge pump/dump in the whole market! its every where now

Reply 3
Nop
honestly i think eth will die either this year or next year
its completly a pumped coin & not worth more than usd

Posting 1

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I feel like we are on two different pages, these are his replies on existing threads in the alternative currencies section (this means the topic does not have to be related only to Dash)

Existing thread of different user : The World’s Most Advanced Token
Reply isosocial : lol, who said its The World’s Most Advanced Token ???

Existing thread from different user : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/does-anyone-have-experience-with-pump-dump.29249/#post-199938
Reply isosocial : "well today we say huge pump/dump in the whole market! its every where now"

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/is-ethereum-a-good-investment.30009/#post-199941
Reply isosocial : Nop honestly i think eth will die either this year or next year its completly a pumped coin & not worth more than usd

**** How exactly are these not related to original postings, when you compare the replies with the topic of each thread ? ****

isosocial own newly created thread in the Marketplace section : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/increase-your-group-channel-members-with-100-real-targeted-ico-members.41336/#post-199943

* that was the one thread i suggested could possibly be against the rules, but Tao just informed us that its more of a advertisement for a business.

I already stated the title of the threads he replied to and his actual replies, in his replies he clearly responds to the thread subject. They are related. Its not like he posts something totally unrelated in those those threads. Only his own newly created ICO thread (Telegram Social Booster) was a bit suspicious to me, but that was cleared up by Tao.

Furthermore his replies were all posted in the alternative currencies section, so they dont need to have anything to do directly with Dash. That is why that section is called "alternative currencies", its like the altcoinsection of BCT.
I's surprised i actually need to explain this to you.

you are aware we are discussing here three seperate replies to three seperate existing threads + one newly created thread .. right ?

It’s a business that claims to be able to help you promote your ICO. This is not really spam, just an advertisement for a business.

A legitimate business? Who knows, buyer beware. But it’s within the forum rules, IMO, as were the most of the reports you sent. I left them open, though, for second and third opinions, as I mentioned before, we are a team.

Tao's work has helped many people who are new to Dash to learn, share ideas, and be part of a growing community. I spent months following the chats before I felt comfortable enough to jump in. One only has to look at the conversation earlier today between Max Yoga and AlejandroE to see that this environment that Tao oversees produces results. Proposal owners who are competing for funding from the treasury are openly working together for the betterment of Dash. That is what "community" means to me.

Imho some of the concerns about censorship are valid. I am weary about the consequences of deleting posts from the history books because they may have offended or deceived someone. If we can't study the history and learn from it we are destined to repeat it. If need be, ban the user but leave the history for all to see.

No one is perfect and we are all learning and working to improve. Tao is honest when he has error-ed, but he does not make excuses. He is always around to answer questions and offer his guidance. I trust Tao to base his decisions on what is best for Dash and am in full support of continuing funding for his essential services. Keep it up!

Thank you so much for those kind words. I’m glad you share my vision in regards to the powerful synergy that working together as a global team creates. Dash Nation will be a force to reckon with if we encourage this daily.

With regards to “censorship”, it’s a valid concern, IMO, so I will address it here. I do not believe that posts that run afoul of the rules should remain in plain view, because they take away from the environment that’s important to maintain. However, the Dash Nation moderation team has a policy to take a screenshot of any post requiring action, so as to be able to defend the action against possible challenges. No post is truly “gone” in this sense, simply not in view to the users of the forum. Hope this explanation allays your concerns about this aspect.

Thanks for your comments! Another Canadian. Is this Canada Day? :-)

I respect Tao and others.
Well, I am NOT a fan of Arthyron who is under the impression Dash is something along the lines of "just a bunch of white guys scheming to get rich".
Personally, I transferred across to Dash to help assist with a payments network that can benefit those who care to use it. If white men or anyone cares to build things that benefit everyone then I hold them in very high regard. I regard Arthyron's view as both racist and sexist (and I care not if he is a white male). I have been interested in non-fiat currencies since 2002.

Personally, I am generally for egalitarian principles and I regard that current day feminism generally does not represent egalitarian principles. So yes, I regard that "feminism is cancer", in favour of egalitarian principles that advocate for 'equality of opportunity'. Here in Australia, a decades old workplace anti-discrimination law has already been bypassed by a major BANK as to allow more superannuation pay to various women (for the exact same roll as men)! The ANZ Bank.
Australia's major political party Labor, is looking broadly, to pay women more than men via superannuation bonuses (for the exact same work rolls as men). These policies are feminist driven IMHO and advocate for workplace discrimination in the feminist plight for "equality of outcome".

@CriticalInput - If you'll recall the context of our last discussion--unfortunately the thread in question from the user Hassna is gone because that user and the thread in question turned out to be a scam--you were making the sexist assertion that women were inherently predisposed to certain behaviors, interests, aptitudes and other claims to the effect that non-majority demographics ought not be sought or courted in proposals, and my counter-assertion was that this chauvinistic attitude has led to a cryptocurrency industry that is highly skewed toward very narrow demographics, and that this is not ideal for an organization like Dash which aims to be Digital Cash used by everyone.

In the Western World, this attitude results in a distribution consisting mostly of White Males that are speculators on the value of cryptocurrency, literally "White Guys scheming to get rich." In the Western world, that is a statistically accurate assertion. Obviously in other markets like the Asian Markets, it would entail Asian Guys, but even the Asian markets are still overwhelmingly Male and still overwhelmingly oriented toward market speculation. Either you can make the sexist assertions that you did that this is because men and women are inherently predisposed to certain behaviors, interests, and aptitudes, or you can assert as I did that there is a lot more going on that results in that skewed distribution than these sexist, chauvinistic assumptions and that Dash is intended to be marketed to and used by everyone, not just the currently majority demographics.

CriticalInput also neglected to mention--and feel free to verify this yourselves in his previous posts on Dash Central--that he routinely leaves rude and off-topic comments on proposals ranting about "Cultural Marxism" and how "Feminism is Cancer" and all sorts of other pseudo-political messages that have nothing to do with the proposal at hand or Dash in general. I'd admonished him on a number of occasions for these behaviors long before I was a moderator on DND because of the unprofessional and unwelcoming atmosphere it creates for the DAO. So let's be clear, that's what this is really about, a personal dislike for *me* as an individual, and not for my performance as a moderator nor the value of this proposal itself.

You took offense to my pointing out your sexist attitude and pretended to be a victim of "racism and sexism" even though I am also a White Male, I am not currently (nor was I then) a moderator on that discussion platform, and my assertions were true and verifiable in every instant. You can dislike me for any reason or no reason whatsoever, but don't misrepresent the nature of our previous interactions, my character, or my performance as a moderator.

"that women were inherently predisposed to certain behaviours" - Generally, yes (not all). Men and women have generally have differing levels of mental development. On average (not all), brain sizes differ (approx 10%) and hormone levels can differ considerably. The general differences between men and women are too many to mention. Investing on cryptocurrencies is a form of risk taking, and men are clearly generally bigger risk takers generally than women in western societies. I observe this clearly, when talking to women vs men in person about cryptocurrencies (and I speak to a decent amount people). Yes, my experience is not a scientific study.

Men on average are stronger,taller with larger brain sizes than women. Facts remain facts. I don't regard men as superior to women. I do regard men as different to women. I am for "equality of opportunity" between sexes along egalitarian principles. How chauvinistic of me right! I consider "equality of outcome" a dangerous 'cultural Marxist' goal.

European legacy: 'White males' are overwhelmingly (not all) responsible for bringing new technologies to this planet. Inventions often present a double edged sword that can be used for good and evil. No other demographic has manifested this culture in the last 2000 years close to the degree of 'white males'. Exploitation over the centuries of white people and non-whites has happened on large scales. Despite the atrocities that have happened, the world's population has boomed and this is no doubt largely as a result of the fruits of the European derived industrial revolution.
White males (not all) still continue the culture of invention...and I am proudly part of that.
Do I think any racial group is "superior". Answer: NO.

Having read numerous posts of yours in regards to the nuts and bolts of proposals, I do respect your opinions on many occasions Athyron.

This is ridiculous, sexist, historical revisionist hogwash and has no place in the DAO. You can't say "different levels of mental development" and then claim you don't believe in superiority, as "levels" imply a linear progression. Again, I could go on debating gender theory and history and the basic definition of words that you don't seem to understand and are misusing--and will if you want to take it to another platform--but my whole point is that these sorts of assertions only alienate current or potential members of the DAO that might otherwise want to be part of the community. As much as you are put off by my criticisms of you, the fact that guys like you consistently propagate messages like this is half the reason the demographics of this industry are so skewed. Why would any Woman or Person of Color want to be involved in a community in which values like these are openly and repeatedly stated non-chalantly?

This kind of talk doesn't belong in the DAO. It has no purpose here other than to propagate your personal ideologies, and this is not a platform for personal politics and every time you use it as such you do a disservice to the DAO itself. I'm not interested in your respect of me, I would rather you respected people who are not like you enough to keep these opinions to yourself so we can get on with our collective business here like professionals.

I think it's disturbing that a moderator is provoking a debate about which opinions and facts are allowed.. Everyone should be able to speak their mind, and everyone should be able to diffuse their arguments if they are able to. Otherwise we're on the path of totalitarianism. Debate is healthy.

1. I'm not acting in capacity here as a moderator, but as a community member responding to a personal criticism from another moderator.
2. In no way have I prevented anyone from speaking their mind. Telling someone else to keep irrelevant, unprofessional comments that alienate other current/potential members of the community to themself does not constitute a violation of free speech. It's a plea based in desiring what is best for the DAO.
3. Free speech is not inherently a feature of the DAO (though is consistent with its ethos)--this isn't the United States--however in this instance I'm using my free speech to respond to and debate someone else's free speech. Criticizing another person's behavior or speech is not censorship.
4. At no point have I been criticized as having used my status as a moderator to silence, oppress, squelch, or otherwise encumber different points of view. I'm able to compartmentalize my various roles (community member, MNO, moderator). That was never in question. As a MNO, I have a vested interest in this network, and thus I would hope that other moderators didn't jeopardize its future by misusing the platform to propagate divisive personal political ideologies.

from another community member*

I'll also note that as of the writing of my response here, CriticalInput is currently engaged in the exact same erratic behavior in another proposal in this cycle right now making assertions about the inherent predispositions of genders and complaining about women and minorities, if you needed an example of what I'm talking about.

1) Either you can make the sexist assertions that you did that this is because men and women are inherently predisposed to certain behaviors, interests, and aptitudes,
2) or you can assert as I did that there is a lot more going on that results in that skewed distribution than these sexist, chauvinistic assumptions and that Dash is intended to be marketed to and used by everyone, not just the currently majority demographics.

Both 1 and 2 are not exclusive it is a combination of both. Unwilling to accept that 1 is part of the equation, is an unwillingness to accept reality.

A_node_to_a_Master
I'll ramble a little:
1) Cryptocurrencies such as Dash are open to anyone with internet access to use. "The Dash don't care"/ Vires in numeris.
Beyond the basic resources: Any demographic is free to learn/promote/utilise/invest etc.
2) I have voted for numerous proposals that target various demographics around the world: I want to see more of EVERY demographic (race, age, sex, class) utilising Dash. I was recently doing this with some muslim women and men in Indonesia. I don't care who a person is. I spent hours with a muslim man here in Sydney too, educating him and helping set up accounts.
3) As a male RN, I have worked a decade approx in nursing and practically no one complains about "gender inequality" despite the vast majority of female nurses. Who complains?
As long at the staff have the right attitude towards the care they provide, that is it.
I apply the same philosophy to Dash. I am also very thankful to those whom speculate their wealth on Dash's value rising. Without these fine people from all around the world, Dash would not get to function to the level it currently does. Value speculation assists project growth, and it is a good thing.
4) Female staff overwhelmingly dominate childcare facilities. Who complains?
Would you truly be happy leaving your infants and toddlers in a male only staffed childcare centre?
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/101220-chimpanzees-play-nature-nurture-science-animals-evolution/
5) I was drawn Dash specifically due to seeing the 'InstantSend' feature utilised (functional Digital Cash). I have been interested in non-bank issued currency and wealth preservation since 2002. There are multiple aspects to my long time presence in the currency arena.
6) I have been involved in dangerous dirtbike racing/BMX/skate riding. The average taller, larger, more muscular, more testosterone driven frame of a man will undoubtedly assist the average man to more aggressive behaviours and higher risk taking activity than the average women.
7) Men are taller on average than women - This is a fact. It is not sexist.
8) Despite a huge population, the Han-Chinese don't present on the 100m Olympic finals starting line anything remotely close to what men with substantial west African genetics do. This is a fact. It is not racist.

@CriticalInput - This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. These sorts of discussions are off-topic, irrelevant, and are just going to create problems, but you keep bringing these issues up in proposal spaces for no apparent reason. Pick your bones somewhere else, is that so difficult for you? I'm specifically disinterested in debating these points on this platform and you should be as well.

I can pretty much reject (1) outright according to science and I can assert that (2) encompasses the bulk of your objection (i.e. that "a lot more going on...than these sexist, chauvinistic assumptions). Either way, this is largely off-topic and if you'd like to continue to debate gender theory, you know where to find me.

Science doesn't say that men and women have no differences.. That's a view politicians have been pushing for decades. Just saying. We're all human and should have equal opportunities, but you can't force two groups with different interests to have equal results; that's insanity.

"complaining about women and minorities" - Context is required. Here is my quote below, which clearly does not refer to all women and all minority people. Most 'women and minorities' will be grateful for what they have in life and understand that hard work can bring rewards:

Final remarks: This is the 21st century and we have far too many "women and minorities" tearing up in every direction when they don't get everything handed to them on a plate despite all the hard work others provide and equal opportunity provided.

Yeah, like I said, complaining about women and minorities. This kind of talk has no place in an organization that is meant to be inclusive. Not only is it irrelevant, it's insulting and divisive and adds nothing to the discourse, and this is why I confront you.

Arthyron
White men are equally part of the "victim culture" bandwagon (Not all). NOT ALL pertains to every demographic.


"we have far too many "women and minorities"- Obviously, the vast majority of "women and minorities" don't complain Arthron. "Women and minorities" actually have diversity of thought and decency like any other demographic Arthyron.

For the record Arthyron, we have far too many white men also, complaining when they don't get everything handed to them too. By "everything", I am mainly refering to 'cultural Marxist' style "equality of outcome" aspirations so many white men desire.

Besides the stupid leftist "women and minorities" rhetoric, which I purposely quoted, white men are a small minority on this Earth.

Now I'm complaining about white men lol.

I'll let Arthyron respond to that specific example if he wants to (re: white males scheming to get rich). What I will say though is that we do have folks from all over the political spectrum in Dash even though it seems that crypto is very heavily influenced by libertarians. I think it's a good thing to have diversity of opinion politically as it means that Dash isn't limited to a narrow appeal. Arthyron is super insightful as a mod and does a great job, imho.

Since the body of this post doesn’t refer to me, I will simply address the first line:

“I respect Tao and others.”

Very much appreciate that sentiment. An atmosphere of respect, even in the face of bitter disagreements, is my vision for the Dash community. The higher standard that we will make other communities aspire to be. If Dash plans to achieve mass adoption, a community encouraged in this way will be a tremendous asset. I respect you as well, @Criticalinput.

As for Arthyron, I can’t speak for his personal views, but what I can say is that he doesn’t let any personal views get in the way of the performance of his job, which is what I expect from him. He’s performed his job to a high standard since hired, and is a fully contributing member of my team. This is important to clarify. He can have strong opinions, but he still has the professionalism to not let them interfere with his task at hand.

Thanks for your “critical input”!
*I love doing this when you post...

Tao says of Athyron - "but what I can say is that he doesn’t let any personal views get in the way of the performance of his job,"

So Athyron's statement that Dash is something along the lines of "a bunch of white guys scheming to get rich" is a fact. Really!

Well, I can't speak as to Arthyron's views, you may want to have a chat with him. What I can speak to is the performance of his job, which has been excellent.

...and I see you are having a chat with him above. Carry on! :-)

Tao is a reasonable man, I have met him personally and can assure this proposal is a easy YES.

From the early days tao has delivered results, and will continue as such.

Hes a reasonable level headed individual, and a very strong desire to see dash succeed by ensuring fair and easy access to dash communities free from drama and ad hominem attacks, and fud.

Thank you, Tao.

Realmrhack, it was a pleasure to meet you in person at the Bitcoin Futurist Conference. I appreciated that you let me beat you in a game of pool!

I look forward to Dash’s bright future, and having a respectful, welcoming community will be a big part of that. Thanks for your support, fellow Canuck!

Esteemed MNOs of the Dash network,

Based on a healthy amount of confusion regarding forum permissions I have seen in the last days, I would like to take a moment to clarify the permissions structure that existed during Dash Nation’s latest term. This may be helpful to you in making your final decision on our contract renewal.

Permissions structure during last term:

Dash Nation on Discord: Moderation, standards, and full administrative control to Dash Nation DFO.

Dashpay Subreddit: Moderation and standards to Dash Nation DFO, Full administrative control to Dash Core Group.

Dash Forum: Moderation and standards to Dash Nation DFO, Full administrative control to Dash Core Group.

These permissions will remain in the event of a successful Dash Nation DFO contract renewal. Hopefully this serves to ease some concerns some of you may have.

Onwards and upwards,

Tao Of Satoshi

Dash Nation Founder and Dash Forums Head Moderator

I prefer DN with TaoOfSatoshi and TroyDash in charge of our community instead of DFN with TheDesertLynx and Macrochip. The way DFN's team handled community issues, especially Macrochip (but not only him), has been far more damaging than any other team can hope to be (my personal opinion). It will take a long time to undo that was done and DN as a DFO is a move in right direction.

I think DFN does a great job on news though, and my personal opinion is about community issues only.

100% agree on that on.

Thanks for your vote of confidence! Dash Nation will not let you down. I’m also in complete agreement with you, that when it comes to news and Dash promotion, Dash Force has done an exemplary job. We should all stick to what we’re goid at, contribute with our strengths. That’s what Dash Nation is all about.

***** DASH NETWORK: PLEASE READ *****

In Dash Nation's last proposal, you gave my team and I a vote of confidence of nearly 10-1 in the job we were doing in building a positive, respectful atmosphere on Dash Nation on Discord. You granted us the opportunity to bring the same methods and skills it took to do this to the other three forums. We didn't take that responsibility lightly, and we have done a great job.

r/Dashpay has completely transformed for the better, and serves to attract newcomers. This was unheard of when we started, with daily complaints about community members' behaviour. Dash Forum has been cleaned up as well, it is no longer known for being toxic. These are results that speak for themselves, while Dash Nation on Discord remains the premier place for Dash online communication and collaboration.

I'm the founder of Dash Nation, so let me tell you a little bit about what that means. It means treating people with fairness, respect and dignity. It means positivity towards others and towards tasks. It means encouraging people to do their best, and accepting people from all walks of life, race, or creed. It means doing everything we can to see that Dash becomes the currency of choice for global commerce, and working as a team, all contributing with their strengths to see that goal to reality.

Dash Nation is not just about moderation, it's about encouraging the Dash community to adhere to a higher standard, when dealing with people inside and outside of the community. It's about encouraging them not to submit to preconceived notions when dealing with people from other cryptocurrencies, because we can learn from everyone. It's about representing Dash to the best of our ability, because this will be needed if we aim to be a welcoming community with the goal of mass adoption.

This is my vision, and my team and I work to achieve this every day.

This page contains a lot of smoke and mirrors originating from people who have been evaluated by Dash Nation because of their own actions, and found not to be up to these high standards. I would ask you to look beyond this, and cut to the facts of the matter, which are these:

- You (the network) gave Dash Nation an overwhelming mandate to implement our high standards in all 3 Dash forums.

- The Dash Nation team did what was necessary to make that a reality. We dealt with rule-breakers, we established rules that are well-known and fair, and we began encouraging tipping to further satisfy community members.

- We created a standardized atmosphere where these high standards are encouraged in all 3 forums, and now other members are even starting to encourage themselves, this fills us with pride.

- Internally, we dealt with staffing issues that were holding us back from doing an even better job. With the subtractions and additions, our team is even stronger now than it ever has been.

We now come before the network asking for a continued mandate for our work. If you take all of the smoke and mirrors out of the equation, other than a positive staffing change, there really is no change between our last proposal and this one.

Please evaluate this situation carefully, and please support the Dash Nation DFO again for another 5 (five) months. We're looking forward to what results we will achieve this term.

We are here to serve the network. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I will respect your vote.

Onwards and upwards,

Tao Of Satoshi
Dash Nation Founder and Dash Forums Head Moderator

I want to like you Tao but you are too proud of your Dash Nation baby.... Dash Nation needs to outgrow the vision of one person. REALITY CHECK: no one cares who the Dash Nation Founder is. Dash Nation would still continue even if you left tomorrow. You need to let go of your ego and agree to some limitations. About how a decision of yours can be overruled. You put together a great team of respected people right? How about instead of only singing their praises, demonstrate some faith in them and put your actions where your mouth is. Or do you not have confidence that your team won't wreck everything you have worked for?? You can't say you are only a tie breaker and then turn around and keep the final decision power just in case. The cat fight with Dash Force [who are also doing stupid things, probably even stupider than you/see my comment on the other proposal] could have been avoided if this common sense thing had been established. Loosen the grip to earn more votes. Dash is too big to be dragged down in a clash of personalities and Dash should not have to wait for you to so graciously consider handing over Dash Nation in your will when you kick the bucket. seriously? You can be the CEO or Founder or what ever you want to call it, but that does not mean you can not implement some policies to help put minds at ease. Dashnation isn't a baby anymore let it learn to walk on its own.

"I want to like you Tao"

Well, let's see if I can make you like me!

"You need to let go of your ego and agree to some limitations. About how a decision of yours can be overruled. You put together a great team of respected people right? How about instead of only singing their praises, demonstrate some faith in them and put your actions where your mouth is."

This is currently the case. I do trust the judgement of my team, and if a majority of my team feels that an action should not be undertaken or rolled back, that's what will happen. Only in the event of a split consensus will I be the one to make the final decision. If you don't take my word on this, please ask any member of my team. It's the only fair way to approach the job, while still having a decision-making mechanism in the case of a hung jury.

"You can't say you are only a tie breaker and then turn around and keep the final decision power just in case."

I'm not sure I understand this statement. I'll explain again. If I post a decision that I made on the mod channel (this happens for all actions taken), and a majority of the team say "Tao, what were you thinking?", then I would take that to mean that maybe my judgement was off this particular time, and the decision would be rolled back. However, if half say "Good job, bro!", and the other half say "Tao, what were you thinking?" then the decision would stand. If no one volunteers an opinion, that will be taken as support. It really is a team effort, and my team is great. We work well together.

"The cat fight with Dash Force [who are also doing stupid things, probably even stupider than you/see my comment on the other proposal] could have been avoided if this common sense thing had been established."

This common sense thing has been established, they just refuse to see it, or they are genuinely convinced that they are right. Either way, I must concentrate on the truth, and making sure that MNOs understand this truth, including yourself. I'm an honest man, and communication is one of my strengths.

"Loosen the grip to earn more votes."

Hopefully you see that this is the case already. The narratives of "dictator", "unilateral decisions", and "centralization" have been overblown. I'm simply the captain of my team!

"Dash is too big to be dragged down in a clash of personalities and Dash should not have to wait for you to so graciously consider handing over Dash Nation in your will when you kick the bucket."

Agree on the first point, disagree on the second. My team and I established Dash Nation on Discord, and proceeded to make it the premier place for online Dash communication and collaboration. This was not an initiative by the network, it was an initiative by my team. The fact that we know how to run it and most users are very satisfied made it the defacto Dash Discord over time. Due to this fact, while I am quite willing to gift this successful forum to the network upon my death, I don't believe the network would be justified in forcing me to hand it over to their control until I was ready to do so.

"You can be the CEO or Founder or what ever you want to call it, but that does not mean you can not implement some policies to help put minds at ease."

This is correct, and I have. I would remind you that my team and I have been doing this for a long time, since the days of the failed Dash Chat Slack. Our methods have remained the same throughout, and we brought these methods to the other two main Dash forums and were successful in building a positive, respectful atmosphere there as well. Other than some drama and some positive staffing changes, there is absolutely no difference between the proposals of the past and this one.

I hope I will be able to count on your vote. My team and I won't disappoint you for having faith in us.

Tao.

If you are telling me now that a majority decision would stand, then can you explain why you said this according to Mastermined
"I appreciate any and all input that my team has to give me, but at the end, the major decisions will be made by me, with strong input from Troy." ... "This a brand that I'm building, so at the end of the day, I would like the decisions to reflect that." ... "Does that mean I'm a loose cannon, and will not take other opinions into consideration? Absolutely not, I'm open to suggestions, that's what makes this Discord stronger, and I don't have all the answers. But for those among you who would like to have the same say as me into how this Discord is run, I'm sorry, that's not the way it's going to be."

You said that you want the decisions to be made by you and that you will only take other opinions "into consideration" and that you are "open to suggestions". But now you are saying that if the other opinions are a majority, you would definitely allow the majority decision even if you disagreed? It can't be both. If you want to back down from that original statement, I could live with that. But your response to me and this earlier quote are not compatible.

Fair comments, Gary, and I appreciate you bringing this up, so I can explain it to the network.

Quote by Tao Of Satoshi:

"I appreciate any and all input that my team has to give me, but at the end, the major decisions will be made by me, with strong input from Troy." ... "This a brand that I'm building, so at the end of the day, I would like the decisions to reflect that." ... "Does that mean I'm a loose cannon, and will not take other opinions into consideration? Absolutely not, I'm open to suggestions, that's what makes this Discord stronger, and I don't have all the answers. But for those among you who would like to have the same say as me into how this Discord is run, I'm sorry, that's not the way it's going to be."

Gary, as with most screenshots, this one does not show the full story of what was being discussed. This exchange was not about moderation decisions, it was about a fundamental difference of opinion between how they thought we ought to run the Discord server, vs. the way we have always ran it in the past. We had worked well as a team ever since the Dash Chat Slack days, and our success has been documented as I told you above. This made no difference to this outgoing team, they wanted to change the way Dash Nation on Discord did things come hell or high water. I was forced to level with them, using clear and firm language that they would understand. They were not satisfied with this, as is their right, so they secretly created another Discord.

The rest of the team was mystified that this exchange even took place because they all understood what we had accomplished, and were fine with what I said to defend it.

"You said that you want the decisions to be made by you and that you will only take other opinions "into consideration" and that you are "open to suggestions". But now you are saying that if the other opinions are a majority, you would definitely allow the majority decision even if you disagreed? It can't be both. If you want to back down from that original statement, I could live with that. But your response to me and this earlier quote are not compatible."

Agreed. As I've explained to you, this was not a quote about a moderation decision, this was a quote in a fundamental disagreement on how to run a Discord. That's why I mentioned TroyDash, because he has been a loyal friend and DN partner since the blowup of the failed Dash Chat Slack. I wasn't about to mess with the formula that has made Dash Nation successful, and they did not like that. Hence the split.

There were times when my proposals wouldn't pass and I was ready to quit trying to work for Dash and Tao would be supportive in some small way. The impact of someone saying something kind and being supportive goes a long way with me. I don't forget it or take it lightly.

A lot of people love you when your up but leave you when your down.

I'll forever support Tao because when I was down and felt like nobody was being supportive he came in clutch.
-Blake Chamness-

Your kind words and support in our time of need is appreciated as well, Blake. Respect.

Nobody here buys the story of a technical issue with DeepBlue's account.
How foolish do you think we are ?? Foolish enough for being lied to our faces? That for sure.
DeepBlue's account was obviously throttled by some piece of crap.

Get this Tao: CENSORSHIP = BAD !!!!!
Funny to see how many MNO are agreeing with it and basically telling these proponents of censorship to fuck off.

Free speech is one of the most important rights to have.
Brave men in the past gave their life for it, they fought and died for our essential rights, including freedom of speech.
And every unfair and unjustified censoring of somebody is like a spit in the face of those men who sacrificed their life for conquering this right for all of us.
Many western countries do no longer have *real* freedom of speech.
And even here in the U.S. the right to free speech is under ever-increasing severe attack by the hooknose tribe.
The very last thing the Dash community needs is censorship.

If moderation on a Dash channel or forum is even needed, it should be reduced to a minimum, like for example:
-propagandizing of competitor cryptocurrencies or forks, making advertisements/publicity for those (Monero trolls etc.)
-use of heavy namecalling, racial slurs or extreme insults
(and this does clearly NOT refer to derogatory and disparaging comments, which should the fully OK to use)
If such slight moderation is applied, there needs to be a proper procedure and oversight for the fair application of such moderation measures.

Your holy SAF rule is utter bullshit, how pathetic can you get to think it's a good idea?
"Speculation or Statements As Fact", such nonsense can be applied arbitrarily to whomever you want to shutup.
Throw it in the garbage where it belongs, but that would require you to be a real man.
Don't you know, people don't want being muzzled either by you or your over-eager mods.
People love their liberty to freely express themselves and they love their freedom of speech.

Tao, seriously, if you were honest and sincere, you would ditch the SAF rule and wholeheartedly apologize for not having done so in the past already, or maybe else the community is going to ditch YOU.

I urge everyone over here not to use any Dash channel or forum any longer, where any biased kind of censorship is being applied. Because in being a partaker of such a platform, every participant (to some extent) agrees and condones its practices.
Not liking somebody is OK, but seriously believing in having the right (or duty) to silence somebody or preventing him to express a challenging opinion or view, is not just plain wrong, but is pathetic.

We should just leave these over-eager mods to themselves, so they can censor their own comments and ban each other until they are left with nothing but silence for moderation. Maybe they get a clue by then.

20 NO votes incoming

@TheMarshall. This is the biggest load of sanctimonious baloney every written. Sorry for being obtuse but we're talking about running a community discussion forum here - not writing a national constitution. Having been one of the more vocal members since the days of the old Slack I can never recall ONE SINGLE instance where significant opinions were censored.

Please don't confuse reasonable curtailing of remarks that conflict with moderation guidelines with systematic "censorship" of some particular agenda or view, because that's what you're alluding to in your faux crusade for "freedom".

Also, be aware that most people's idea of a successful forum is not some free-for all mouthing-off zone for sqawking zealots (unless you're one of them). So everyone's going to feel "censored" at one time or another if they're unable to formulate their contributions in a reasonably constructive way. So please don't turn this into some "free speech" issue since the squawking zealots mob can give the most draconian mods a run for their money when it comes to "censoring" other contributors.

Also, you could have made your argument shorter and more convincing if you'd simply stated which agenda was being suppressed according to your claim of "biased censorship" instead of alluding to it indirectly. Many of us who have benefited hugely from TAO's hard work in bringing a wide audience to the community would be all ears.

Glad for you, if your comments have never been silenced because of Tao's holy SAF rule.
If it ever happened to you, maybe you would think otherwise about it.
By the excuse of SAF rule many others have been silenced for completely unjustified reasons.

Whose agenda is being suppressed?
If it goes against Tao's or his mods opinion, if another opinion challenges their own, or if they feel offended by somebody's audacity to speak his mind.

If you lack the two braincells necessary to understand what an utter bullshit the SAF rule really is, then it's obviously exceeding your mental capacity to comprehend why it's bad, and nobody will be able to explain it to you.
SAF rule is complete garbage, allowing them to silence whatever the heck they want to silence.

P.S. I've no objection to anyone sloping off and creating their own "squawking zealots" forum that allows contributors a bit more latitude in terms of expression, content and vocabulary. Just don't pretend it's going to attract more constructive content, a larger audience, more participation or less contention than the current one.

The reason Tao should receive this funding is because he's earned it by those metrics. Nobody else has - at least yet - and until they do, the funding should continue IMO.

Very much appreciate the words of support. My team and I will not let you down. We have earned the trust of the network, and would very much enjoy continuing our work. Cheers!

TheMarshall, the DN team does not have access to the forum back-end and there are no tools in the forum moderation features that allow a moderator to "throttle" an account. Any of the forum moderators can attest to this. If there is anything going on that is affecting a single account (that isn't a straight up ban), whether it's a technical issue or otherwise, you would need to take that up with the site administrators (the core team), not Tao.

But the DN team has contributed nothing to look into the matter.
Then perhaps those who are *really* in charge of the back-end should take responsibility for moderation and apply for funding.

Ok, first off, Anti-Semitism is unacceptable and has no place in the DAO, and anyone who engages it has no business determining its direction. Secondly, only cowards hide behind sockpuppets. I also have to note the irony of using a racial slur and then saying that racial slurs should be a moddable offense.

Now that that's out of the way, posts like this are why the SAF rule was implemented. In the vast majority of instances, there is no ambiguity as to whether or not something someone says is speculation or fact, and only slightly more ambiguity as to whether or not a statement was *intended* as speculation or fact in context. No rule will be perfect or applicable in every instance, but by and large it is an effective one that does an effective job at keeping people like yourself from blathering on and steamrolling discourse with baseless narratives. It's unsurprising that you would be opposed to this rule, but it doesn't in itself constitute censorship and to my knowledge has *never* been used to stifle alternative or unpopular viewpoints.

Only a handful of people have ever been banned from DND apart from spam bots, and most of those people were not charged with bannable offenses by current DND moderators, FYI.

As far as i'm concerned, you can as well kiss and lick your overlords asses all day long, if that is what makes you happy.
And if by thanking you in return for your servitude, they fail to beat you into a coffin, please don't complain after your untouchable masters of the universe poo all over your face.

For the rest of us who haven't lost our mind, please don't try to explain us that those who constantly attack free speech wherever they can, must be safeguarded the most from those who want to actually preserve and defend free speech.

1 : Please watch your language, there is a civil debate going on here and your reply is disrespectfull to say the least.
2 : I find it much more believeable that Dash.org/forum got ddos'ed, then that a single person got throttled somehow.
3 : I find Dash Force silently adjusting their proposal 5 weeks after i (and most masternode owners) voted on it, much more concerning.

There was no announcement of the moderation update on the Dash Bitcointalk ANN thread or in the Dash.org/forum. I could not even find it on Reddit. This indicates to me an unwillingness to have a public debate on it and it created a Dash Force trust issue for me.

How can i still trust Dash Force when they adjust their budget proposal many weeks later (after having received support from most masternodes), by suddenly including a moderation change support ? And how many masternode owners would really notice this important change 5 weeks after they already voted on it ?

I am as civilized as can be, with obviously censorship-loving individuals like you.
Too bad you can't muzzle me, i guess...

Not much complaints about Dash Force so far.
Let's give Dash Force a try instead, they can't hardly be any worse.

"Let's give Dash Force a try instead, they can't hardly be any worse."

I know you don't have all the facts @Camosoul (*speculation), so I forgive you for believing that to be true. We've had our run-ins in the past, but through it all, I still respect you as a straight shooter. Cheers.

I already supported them in the past, Dash Force abused my support. So no thank you.

I have an exercise for you. Let me point out all of the speculation as fact in this post, and see if you can provide evidence of any of these claims.

- Nobody here buys the story of a technical issue with DeepBlue's account.
How foolish do you think we are ?? Foolish enough for being lied to our faces? That for sure.
DeepBlue's account was obviously throttled by some piece of crap.

Proof?

- I urge everyone over here not to use any Dash channel or forum any longer, where any biased kind of censorship is being applied.

Biased? Proof of this?

- Not liking somebody is OK, but seriously believing in having the right (or duty) to silence somebody or preventing him to express a challenging opinion or view, is not just plain wrong, but is pathetic.

"preventing him to express a challenging opinion or view" - Any proof that this is happening?

This post is the whole reason why Dash Nation moderation exists. Baseless narratives are dangerous and destructive. Thank you for proving my point more eloquently than I ever could.

LOL
Thank you for your last sentence, i seldom had such a good laugh.
Yeah dude, keep on having wet dreams about your censorship powers and how the entire world goes down the tubes if not for your rescuing it by muzzling of others.

You are seriously asking for proof about what happened to DeepBlue's account ??
Have you ever even thought of the possibility, that maybe just maybe, in such a situation the burden of proof is upon YOU ?? (and those who have full access/privileges to the platform, in order to produce PROOF)
Many just cannot believe in such type of comfortable coincidences.
Keep insulting the intelligence of all MNO in here by asking US for such proof.
You will soon find out how well it serves you in getting more favourable votes.

The burden of proof exists equally between me to prove that it wasn't censorship and you to prove that it was. I can prove that it wasn't, because the moderator options menu only allow for deleting posts, thread options, and spam banning people. There is no option to throttle someone's account, and honestly if there was, I wouldn't know how to use it, because as you know I'm a dummy. I like to keep it simple, and luckily for me the controls are simple.

Also, my permissions on the forum are just to moderate, there are admins there who should be able to get to the bottom of that. Just barging in with accusations is not going to help matters, when you're coming from a place with lack of information.

The mods (including yourself) and the overlords enjoying even higher privileges are having an equally burden of proof than anyone else? Really?
How can an unprivileged person produce any proof?
The burden to produce proof is on those who have THE POWER TO DO SO.
And as we see, they REFUSE to provide the proof that ONLY THEY can obtain.

Re your first reply's last sentence:
Tao, not every posting of every person will always be 100% accurate, 100% truthful or spot-on with reality. People make mistakes and sometimes people perceive things very differently.
At times people may post something that they regret later, or they post something that is doubtful.
But such should be no reasons for censoring.
And in case somebody else says something questionable about oneself, you gotta stand above it, not cancel it.

“How can an unprivileged person produce any proof?”

A fair question, but irrelevant. This unprivileged person would have to get proof if he wanted to communicate something other than baseless narratives.

Camo, I’m not some maniacal villain who’s out to delete everyone’s posts. If I was, there’d be proof of it, and I wouldn’t be able to represent myself with confidence. As I’ve already stated, the SAF rule is basically to guard against bad actors using baseless narratives leading to an inflammatory result.

I’ve seen the destructive results of that first-hand, and that will never happen again on a Dash Nation DFO-moderated forum.

Sincere thanks for the interest so far in the Dash Nation DFO. The positive comments are appreciated, and the criticisms are a welcome opportunity to explain in detail the results we achieved, the methods in which we achieved them, and the reason why the results we achieve are important to the network.

We would welcome the opportunity to continue serving the network. Please continue to post your comments and concerns, and I will respond to them at my earliest opportunity.

Onwards and upwards,
Tao.

With all do respect you keep saying we, but it you, you made that very clear in answering my question below.
Make a promise that you setup DFO in the same way as DCG, and than I'll believe it "we" not "Tao"

As I stated earlier, the Dash Nation DFO is a team, I’m simply their leader. What’s wrong with that? They wouldn’t stick around if this baseless narrative of “dictatorship” was true. This should be self-evident.

From my perspective I’ve known Tao from within the community going a very long way back, you’ve done a lot of good work over the years and I respect that. I don’t think I’ve ever voted No to a DN proposal, so that speaks volumes. I need to remain objective though and there are clearly some problems brewing, whether we like to admit it or not. One of my concerns is that as a fellow 'early' Masternode owner I’m reasonably confident that you could live a comfortable life off your MN earnings alone (even at current prices). From previous public discussions it’s pretty clear you have more than a couple.. as do I. This is of course conjecture, is none of my business and largely irrelevant; apart from the fact that your decision to continue your full time job is clearly not financially motivated! It’s more likely because you’re one of the lucky people that actually really enjoy and love the work they do.. that’s great and I’m happy for you ??

Where it becomes an issue for me is that you’re asking for a full time salary from the Dash treasury, in my opinion, and a very healthy one at that. So, on that basis I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the network to expect 100% of your working day in return for funding. The network may decide that you are worth the funding anyway (?) but I just want to let you know that I didn’t realise that you were continuing to hold down a full time job during previous DN proposals and it certainly affects the way I will evaluate this latest funding request.

I do not see how you can have a balanced family life, hold down a full time job, fulfil your responsibilities as a MNO AND commit 100% full time to DN in my honest opinion. You may disagree, but from the evidence I’ve seen over the last few months, something is clearly not working for you, and you haven’t got the balance right just now. I suspect you are just trying to spread yourself too thin maybe? That’s what I’m seeing anyway. Just my opinion.

Walter

“Happy for you ??” - didn’t translate well from my cut and paste off discord. It was a smiley emoticon.

Walter

No worries. Cheers.

As I've already addressed this and another MNO's concerns on the #mno-only channel on Dash Nation on Discord, I respectfully disagree. I will crosspost the answer I gave there at that time:

"@????? Thanks for the advice and @Walter thanks for the comment. However I must challenge you on it, and I’ll explain why.

1. The perception of me in the channels is just that, perception, it may and likely does not represent the reality.
2. Dash Nation on Discord is my baby, but my team and I are also responsible for Dashpay subreddit and Dash Forum. Some days I spend more time on each one then I do here.
3. It stands to reason that my team and I receive more scrutiny during the critical time of submitting the Dash Nation DFO contract renewal. It’s only natural for us to be under the magnifying glass at this time.

As for remuneration, my team and I achieve results. The time spent on Dash pursuits far outweigh my time in the casino, these results don’t achieve themselves. I stand by the contract renewal terms I have offered to the network, we will see if the network values a community encouraged to be positive, respectful and not succumbing to baseless narratives. One only needs to look at r/BTC to see the catastrophic results of inaction. If I may be so bold, I’m worth the money. If you disagree, your right is of course to vote no. I hope that won’t be the case."

Thank you for giving me the chance to address these concerns in public. If you have any further concerns, please feel free to let me or my team know.

Tao.

Hi Tao

In response:

1. Whether you agree or not, perception is important. Impressions count, unfortunately.

2. That may be the case over recent weeks, but - rightly or wrongly - I judge your overall levels of activity and effort by the number of posts/contributions I count from yourself on Dash Forum and Reddit over the WHOLE of the previous DN funding period. It seems like a reasonable proxy, albeit an approximation. Apart from the last 2/3 weeks there has been nowhere near the levels of posting or activity I'd expect from a full time paid contributor. Just being straight up about it. It's clearly a part time job for you at most (?).

3. Correct

I've also noticed a distinct drop off in CATV activity in general, although (again) the last few weeks have seen much more activity (3 videos), but prior to this you managed just 3 videos over 4 months? I understand that this is "complimentary, included in the stipend" - which I take this to mean that it is discretionary and you make no commitment - however, the term is contradictory, it should either be part of the deal or not. The impression i get is that you want us to see it as a 'bonus' effort that adds value, but gloss over the fact that you do it if and when you feel like doing it? If that's the case then I'd rather you leave it off the proposal altogether. Just my opinion.

To make clear - I don't question the value the rest of your team bring to this contract, they are exceptionally good value for the amount you propose to pay them (average 1D per person, per month) and the amount of time/effort I see them put in. My specific concern is the value you are bringing to this contract for the personal "stipend" you request (25D per month), which is orders of magnitude higher than what you propose your own team members are paid, yet they are the one's that seem to be doing the vast majority of the work in my opinion..

It doesn't seem fair to me, especially in light of my comments in point 2 above.

Walter

"1. Whether you agree or not, perception is important. Impressions count, unfortunately."

I'll agree with that. But that still doesn't make your perception right. It just means that is your perception.

"2. That may be the case over recent weeks, but - rightly or wrongly - I judge your overall levels of activity and effort by the number of posts/contributions I count from yourself on Dash Forum and Reddit over the WHOLE of the previous DN funding period. It seems like a reasonable proxy, albeit an approximation. Apart from the last 2/3 weeks there has been nowhere near the levels of posting or activity I'd expect from a full time paid contributor. Just being straight up about it. It's clearly a part time job for you at most (?)."

This is incorrect. It's impossible to ascertain the amount of work done simply going by post count. My main job is to moderate, that means cleaning up spam and going through literally every message posted on all of the three major forums for violations. As Dash Nation DFO CEO, I also have a big role in organizing my team's next steps when it comes to improvements to Dash Nation on Discord. I spend time dealing with violators, and organizing liaisons between the Core Team and Dash Nation with Strophy. As Dash Nation Founder, I'm constantly in communications with community members seeking guidance or advice. Not to mention on top of that a healthy amount of posts, and tips for people who make great posts. Add to that helping Brian Davis with Dash Decentral, and approaching contributors to that show in order to get content and reward that content. And providing guidance for the Venezuelan teams. And I still find time to do some interviews and episodes of CATV. In short, I do plenty. I'm the cog that makes Dash Nation run. It's been my vision.

You keep saying that it's a part time job for me. Nothing could be further from the truth. I work approximately 30-35 hours a week at my casino job, but don't have breaks as my breaks consist of performing my moderation work, and attending to anyone's private messages for other needs. I work about 5 hours a day on Dash on days when I work, and 8 hours a day on days where I don't, for a total of 41 hours a week, that is a full-time schedule where I am in Canada. I'm an honest man, and the results I oversee justify the ask I've made to the network.

"To make clear - I don't question the value the rest of your team bring to this contract, they are exceptionally good value for the amount you propose to pay them (average 1D per person, per month) and the amount of time/effort I see them put in. My specific concern is the value you are bringing to this contract for the personal "stipend" you request (25D per month), which is orders of magnitude higher than what you propose your own team members are paid, yet they are the one's that seem to be doing the vast majority of the work in my opinion.. "

This is incorrect, as I've explained above. My staff are all part-time, with no schedule, the only requirement is to be regularly present and contributing, within reason. Myself, on the other hand, I spend hours and hours of time organizing my team, communicating with the community and performing other duties expected of the Dash Nation founder. Like I said before, I'm worth the money. The results we've achieved speak for themselves.

"It doesn't seem fair to me, especially in light of my comments in point 2 above."

Hopefully now you see that you were mistaken. I hope I can count on your vote.

Tao.

Hi Tao,

Are you aware that Dash Force just edited their budget proposal and are now trying to get moderation rights to Dash Reddit and Dash Forum ?

*************************************************************************************************************************
Dash Force September - December: Moderation Update
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DASH_FORCE_SEPTEMBER

The moderation section of the proposal has been updated....

"Update: 10-4-18
With the Network's approval we will continue with moderation of the Dashpay Reddit and also help with the Dash.org forums. This will be done under the existing budget and no further funding will be required. We will work with all moderators to create a decentralized committee based moderation system. We feel it is important that moderation is decentralized amongst many different individuals and organisations and
not administered by one centralized person with total control over important Dash communication channels."
**************************************************************************************************************************

FYI

Crossposting between competing proposals: To be clear, even though I am still currently a moderator on DND, I don't hold any particular allegiances. When Dash Force asked me to continue reviewing Pre-Proposals for them a while back, I was glad to do so. When Tao asked me to help moderate DND, I was glad to do so. If DND goes by the wayside, so be it. If anyone does or doesn't want me to be a moderator for their discussion platform, I don't particularly care (but as always, willing to help when I can).

Personally, I see this as underhanded, like pork-barrel spending in Congress. It's a bait & switch wherein DF leverages the success of their news platform--of which I've always been an ardent supporter and continue to be--as equivocated support by the DAO for the role of moderation staffing. I see that as dishonest. If Dash Force or others want to take over the role of moderation, then let them make a fair and separate proposal for that purpose. How many times have we criticized other proposals for changing the nature/scope of their proposals mid-stride? It's a shady thing to do.

A lot of the criticisms leveled by this team are also unfair and categorically false. I can recall a number of occasions where aggressive pushes were made to harshly apply moderation rules and constraints to certain community members over others, and in most cases it was members of this faction of moderators that were responsible. In fact, nearly all of the moderation actions beyond deletion of "speculation as fact" statements or posts--especially those resulting in temporary or permanent bans of community members--were initiated by members of this faction of the moderation even if Tao often felt responsible for ultimately carrying them out.

Furthermore, I haven't been impressed with the environment of the new Discord channel moderated by this non-Dash Nation team. It's a toxic, hostile, unprofessional place. I can't imagine anyone but immature, Western, Right-Wing Libertarians finding it welcoming. I'm all for decentralization, but I have no interest in Decentralized Governance By 4Chan.

This "strategy" has put me in the undesirable position of having to consider voting against something I very much enjoy. If Dash Force, et al put this up as a separate proposal, I would not feel conflicted in continuing to support Dash Force News.

By the way, the above quoted "Moderation Update" comment was placed two days ago (7th of oct), eventhough the update itself mentions 4th of oct.

Thank you, qwizzie, for bringing this to my attention.

This is saddening and disappointing. In times like these I prefer to stay above the fray, and appeal to cooler heads to decide what’s going on here.

I will begin by reviewing the history one more time:

- Dash Chat Slack implodes, with baseless narratives leading to its destruction.
- Dash Nation Slack is established, featuring the implementation of Dash Nation rules, the moderation structure that currently exists within the Dash Nation DFO was established.
- Shortly after a successful proposal to upgrade the Slack, it becomes apparent that Slack didn’t meet the Dash community’s needs.
- Dash Nation on Discord was established, and continued with the atmosphere that was celebrated and praised by members.
- Community members that were so satisfied with the rules and application of them on DND, suggested to apply these rules to the other two major Dash forums.
- A proposal to that effect was submitted, and supported by the network by a margin of 10-1.
- Core approved the rules for the other two forums.
- Current moderation structure still in place throughout all events.
- The Dash Nation DFO moderated all 3 forums in an unbiased, fair way, an unblemished record that exists to this day.
- Some moderation team members had an issue with how actions were decided, despite the successes of that approach.
- The disgruntled moderation team members secretly created their own Discord, allowing open anti-Dash Nation and anti-Kuvacash rhetoric to permeate.
- The leader of the disgruntled openly discussed a power play on Reddit, attempting to undermine the good work that Dash Nation did by trying to take over the work we do, without considering the confusing and polarizing effects this would have on the network.

That leads to this latest move by the disgruntled former members of the Dash Nation DFO moderation team.

I stand by the work my team and I have done, and the way in which we achieve results. Our record is unblemished, the caliber of my staff unquestioned. The former members of my team cannot say the same. There is no “centralized” moderation. This is a myth. I will leave it up to the casual observer to figure out what is happening here.

For the Dash Nation DFO’s part, we continue to perform our work to the best of our ability. A simple visit to any of the three major forums will give the viewer an indication of the positive, respectful atmosphere we are building to please Dash community members and attract like-minded individuals to the team.

Kind regards and the team and I would appreciate your continued support,

Tao.

Both you, Tao, as well as people you've been publicly feuding with -- Dash Force members -- are listed as moderators on r/dashpay.

That's problematic.

It is the individuals who moderate that subreddit -- not how much they all should be paid to continue publicly feuding -- that should be put up for a vote.

I like you, Tao, and I think you're a great moderator. But you showed weak judgment when you joined up with the Dash Force crew. And now I'll be voting "no" for both your and their proposals -- though I was already voting "no" for Dash Force because their primary contribution is DiscoverDash.com, which is a fantastic service but highly overpriced at $36,000 per month.

I’m not sure if this is a fair criticism because I have removed these members from the mod team on Dash Nation on Discord, and have publicly stated I would like to see them removed from their positions on Reddit and Dash Forum. In the event this proposal is approved, I will have a staffing reorganization meeting with Fernando, who has the ability to add/remove staff.

Hope this is enough to satisfy you, and earn your vote.

Cheers.

@TaoOfSatoshi,
I asked some questions in my post below however I notice you did not provide the answers to them so I'm posting them here again to make certain that you see them. I think it is clear people, including myself, are concerned about the removal of rights to freedom of speech i.e. censorship of a reasonable comments or points of view that go against those of people of power e.g. DCG or DashCentral moderators.

If people read my post below my account was blocked for 2 days at the Dash Forum and no reasonable response other than it must have been a bug. My account was freed up only after I posted on Dash Central the issue. I have removed the questions concerning my account being blocked because the answer provided so far by Tao, Fernando and Tunga is "you don't know" or "it could be a bug". I don't think I'm gong to make any further progress on asking those questions however I would like to suggest if it is a bug that someone look into fixing it!

I have asked the following questions of Tao in both an email at the Dash forum PM and also here in this funding request (see my earlier post) however Tao has not yet answered these questions. Therefore I'm posting again just in case they were missed.

1. Who decides a member can be censored i.e. blocked i.e. Censored?
2. What procedure is there if someone is to be blocked so that they are not discriminated against but blocked for a valid reason?
3. What steps can a blocked person take to restore their account (if any)
4. If an account is blocked how long can it take to be re-activated and what are the steps to reactivating?
5. Are the other members of the forum admin advised when they block and account? It may be that one admin simply blocks and account because they don't like the person or that they don't like the post. How can we protect users against this possibility?
6. If an account is blocked is the user able to at least still login to DASH Central or are they not permitted access?
7. How do the rest of the Dash Community know that an account has been censored? I suggest that all censored accounts should be posted publicly on the DASH forum with a reason and the post itself. Then the community have the right to unblock the account if they wish by voting on it.

I think Tao your service is valuable and it fosters healthy debate but at the same time there are real concerns that people who do not have the same views as core are going not to be censored. For people to have confidence in a moderation system I feel there needs to be a protocol that fairly deals with bans in such a way that a person can only get banned for the right circumstances. "Statements as facts" should not be a basis for banning an account. Otherwise we would all be required to write Ph.D type thesis with references backing up every statement. Having obtained a Ph.D myself, and written a thesis I know how much work that is and is simply not practical for a general discussion forum.

I'm still somewhat baffled that someone who has been a moderator for Dash.org/forum and therefore knows the limitations of his moderator power goes on to accuse fellow moderators of having throttled his Dash.org/forum account. If you can not throttle other users / moderators, why assume other moderators can throttle you ? Why go straight on pointing the finger at Dash Nation moderators ?

I find it also strange that it is only mentioned in this budget proposal and not in a more appropriate place like this one : https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/forum-feedback.13/

To me this indicate that this person has lost his objectivity, and since this person is also a moderator that makes it even worse.

Just to add one other comment re: "speculation as fact" -- I completely understand why some people have reservations about this rule. But in my opinion this is really just an extension or a specific-case of the other general rule of treating others with respect. If you know that others in the room are going to contest a claim that you are about to make, but you continue to present your claim as if it is self-evident or as if it is an undisputed fact, this is highly dismissive and causes others to feel like they are not valued. Repeatedly stating a controversial claim as if it is a fact is also a form of psychological manipulation. I see it as the role of the moderators to work with users to help them to be able to make their arguments while being respectful of the others in the room, not work against users just to find excuses to take mod action. Hope this helps explain the purpose of that rule -- thanks for the question.

@TroyDash, thank you again for your contribution. I think the issue with the "speculation as fact" is where do we draw the line? e.g. I stated some things in my post that was moderated which I felt were reasonable to expect but were not provable facts. In my opinion they do not need to be proved because they are to a large degree self evident e.g. I stated that large investment firms would most likely have a team of researchers to be gathering detailed information before making a decision on what cryptocurrencies to invest. It is therefore logical to consider where they would get this information e.g. I would consider the Github coding activity statistics to be an important source of information for an investor to guage as a KPI on how much development work is being undertaken by a coin. Could I prove this as a fact however - no? All I can say is if an investment first is going to invest millions of USD they are going to use that type of information if they are a sensible investment firm. However my statement could be stated as speculation however - even though it is, infact a reasonable statement. The post however could get banned for being speculative because I don't know for a fact that large scale investor firms would be using the github coding activity statistics analytics to judge how much development work is going on at DASH . Is it therefore necessary to state "it is my opinion that" every time that we need to state something that cannot be proven as a fact but has a strong basis of reason that it is reasonable to expect this? If I was to ask you do you believe an investment firm would invest say 100 million USD on DASH without checking data such as the Github coding statistics repositories and the DASH Core postings at the forums?

What guidelines do the moderators have in knowing where to draw the line on "Speculation as facts". If the statement cannot be categorically proven how can we present the arguments without having to preface every statement of reason "it is my opinion" every time. or is it necessary for us to do that on every statement ever time? There needs to be some sort of guidelines so we have freedom to express reasonably logical conclusions that are not 100% provable as a fact if the contribution is not to sound stilted. (in my opinion)

Hi DeepBlue,
You're right that it's not always clear cut, but for me here are a couple major things I take into account:
- Did someone object to the claim? I don't expect everyone to always know what things they say that might be contested versus things that are not contested. Therefore, if someone objects to the claim, and it is the first time, then I would ask the OP to revise their statement. Generally warnings are not issued if the person readily complies with this and does not continue to repeat the same thing.
- Does the claim include an assumption about someone else's motivations or what someone else is thinking? For example, "he's deliberately avoiding this question", vs. "he has not yet answered this question (to my satisfaction)"

With regards to Github and its coding activty :

Github Insights are not working on this Repo #2329
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/issues/2329

quoting nmarley :

"I actually emailed GitHub support about 6 weeks ago for this exact issue, and that's all that is available. And yeah, we squash merge to develop so this wouldn't show all the actual commit activity regardless.

TL;DR : GitHub statistics is broken / inflexible."

The SAF rule is simply intended to prevent bad actors from attempting to use baseless narratives towards an inflammatory result. As an example, in the failed Dash Chat Slack, there was a user who was overly critical of anything that the Dash Core Team did, or did not.

However, he did not offer evidence of any of his claims, he simply repeated them over and over until he started drawing other people into this baseless narrative. Then the climax: One day (with the approval of a good number of his peers) he concluded that we needed to fork Dash, totally due to his warped speculation-fueled view of the Core Team.

No sooner than his fingers hit the keyboard with that plan of action, TroyDash and I started Dash Nation Slack, and vowed that this type of thing would never happen again. As you can see, the speculation as fact rule is extremely important to uphold.

As for your post (which I just reviewed), it contained assumptions about what all investors were thinking, you can only claim to know what you are thinking. A lot of points you made in that rather long post we’re not factual, and negative towards DCG, and didn’t indicate that it was coming from your point of view as an individual. I copied it and DMd it to you so you could clearly indicate that this writeup was based on your opinion, not what all investors were thinking.

I stand by the decision made in your instance. However, like I told you earlier, your record is now clean.

DeepBlue, are you saying you were still able to login to your DashForum account, but were unable to post messages? If that is the case, none of the moderator tools that Tao and I have on the forum would cause that to happen. It is possible to ban a user completely, but I am not aware of any way to throttle an account or prevent someone from posting without completely banning them. Apparently the forum has some anti-spam functionality that could potentially do that, but as far as I know this is not something that could be manually done to an account by a moderator.

Regarding banning users on the forum -- other than the obvious spammers (promoting dietary supplements and such), I think there has really only been one ban, and that was for demo and his multi-accounts, for perpetual thread hijacking. We follow an escalation process where users will be issued a series of warnings, followed by a temp ban and then eventually a permaban if the abusive behavior continues. As I said earlier, it is very unusual for it to ever get to that point. Tao or the others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only person to have been banned from the forum since Tao came onboard is demo -- and that was after he went through the full escalation process.

A user's ability to login to DashCentral is entirely up to @rango, as he is the administrator of this site, and the DN mod team is not involved in any decisions relating to DC.

@TroyDash, thank you for your reply. My apologies, for some reason I keep making a typing error saying DashCentral instead of Dash Forum. I am speaking exclusively about the Dash forum https://www.dash.org/forum/ and it was the Dash Forum where my account was blocked. I have never had any problems with DashCentral.

Could you confirm if an account is banned Banned at the Dash Forum can they still log in or can they not login at all? I could log in but it took around 2 minutes to login and sometimes the page just timed out. The fact I could login proves there was no problem with my password. I also use an encryption key password software anyway and after the throttling was removed I could login with the same password so it was not a password issue.

The Dash Forum pages were being throttled to the point of the pages timing out. The throttling was not by IP address but by user account name. Therefore if you are not aware of this then by throttling perhaps the normal ban record could be bypassed i.e. theoretically if a technically minded moderator did not like my post and did not want a ban action to appear on the Dash Forum record then they could have throttled the pages based on the username. That is what happened to my account. That is also what happened to MNO "unstoppable" who reported the same issue as myself after one of his posts was moderated.

The throttling was not by IP address. I know this because I was able to login and use the Dash Forum without any issues when I logged in with a test account with a different username - all other things being equal. It was specifically my DeepBlue account that was being throttled to the point of being unusable - which had the same effect as a ban.

I am raising this for your awareness. My view, based on the comprehensive tests I did over a 2 day period, it is very likely there a technically minded operator was throttled my account at the Dash Forum based on account name and not IP address. The person would have to have a reasonable level of technical knowledge to do this. If you have access to the server logs or your analytics package which I believe is Matomo (formerly Piwik analytics) you may be able see these events recorded as exceptionally long page load times.

If a moderator is throttling accounts at the Dash Forum it would be in the best interests of this project to find out who it is because it is damaging to this project funding.

@DeepBlue thanks for the information. I suspect that it was either related to some form of external DOS attack, or it could have been an automatic anti-spam measure that went awry (for example, if it detects too much of the same copy pasted text? just shooting in the dark here). I would defer to the site administrators though to provide a more definitive answer, and to resolve your issue if it is still happening. Unfortunately I don't have access to the back-end to be able to answer you to the extent that I would like to be able to.

There was an attack on Dash.org and the forum not too long ago, the forum was quite glitchy around the time. Is it possible that the strange behaviour coincided with that?

I agree. That situation is so weird.

This is correct. Only one account (other than spam) has been banned, after running through the entire warning process. This user was actually requested to be reinstated by me, because as I said I wanted everyone to start with a clean slate (including iCEBREAKER, who remains on the forum, and posts within the rules). This one account, however, which I will not name as professional courtesy, is indeed the only non-spam account that was permanently banned.

@DeepBlue I know you are asking your questions from a place of fairness, so I will answer each one to the best of my ability, and that is as follows:

1. Who decides a member can be censored i.e. blocked i.e. Censored?

The terminology here is not quite correct. The procedure we use (standard among the three forums) is a warning system. 1st warning, final temp ban warning, temp ban, final permanent ban warning, permanent ban. So someone who gets permanently banned has to burn through four warnings to get to that point. The answer to your question is that each major decision is discussed among the team, in the event of a split consensus, the final decision rests with me as head moderator.

2. What procedure is there if someone is to be blocked so that they are not discriminated against but blocked for a valid reason?

No action is taken against a user for any reason other than lack of adherence to the rules. Actions are posted and discussed in the moderation channel, and in the case of massive disagreement, any action can be rolled back.

3. What steps can a blocked person take to restore their account (if any)

I'm going to clarify that the term "blocked" is not correct from the standpoint of the Dash Nation DFO. If there is a technical issue that results in your account being blocked, we are not responsible for that. To answer your question though, the team has implemented a "good behaviour" policy. After two weeks of good behaviour, provided a member was actually present and posting, not just absent, a warning is removed from the record, all the way to being back to a clean slate after a period of time. @DeepBlue, you have achieved this a long time ago. From our standpoint, your slate is clean.

4. If an account is blocked how long can it take to be re-activated and what are the steps to reactivating?

See my previous answer. My team and I are not responsible for your account being blocked.

5. Are the other members of the forum admin advised when they block and account? It may be that one admin simply blocks and account because they don't like the person or that they don't like the post. How can we protect users against this possibility?

Yes. Every decision and action is discussed by my team and I. I will clarify that there are moderators on Dash Forum and Dashpay subreddit who are not employees of the Dash Nation DFO, and I cannot speak to the actions of these members. However, they are long-time upstanding Dash community members, and I have a hard time believing any nefarious action by them.

6. If an account is blocked is the user able to at least still login to DASH Central or are they not permitted access?

Dash Central is a completely different forum, and as such, does not apply to any moderation decisions undertaken by the Dash Nation DFO.

7. How do the rest of the Dash Community know that an account has been censored? I suggest that all censored accounts should be posted publicly on the DASH forum with a reason and the post itself. Then the community have the right to unblock the account if they wish by voting on it.

First of all, from the standpoint of the Dash Nation DFO, no account has been censored, simply moderated for not respecting the rules. We have high standards, and appreciate the trust of the network. Fair and unbiased moderation benefits the network, censorship does not. However, mod logs will not be made public, due to the time efficiency. Moderation work is time-consuming enough without having to worry about PMs from community members who may disagree with any decision made by the team. We have earned, and ask for your continued trust that we will perform our duties fairly.

"I think Tao your service is valuable and it fosters healthy debate but at the same time there are real concerns that people who do not have the same views as core are going not to be censored."

It's important to note here that the Dash Nation DFO's allegiance is to the network. Not Core, not Dash Force News, not Kuvacash, not Dash Embassy DACH, not any project. We want to be here for a long time, and projects are going to come and go. Our mission is professionalism, respect and optimism, and the actions we take reflect this. Fairness is the key. Apparent technical issues, such as what I believe happened to you, are beyond the scope of our responsibilities.

""Statements as facts" should not be a basis for banning an account. Otherwise we would all be required to write Ph.D type thesis with references backing up every statement. Having obtained a Ph.D myself, and written a thesis I know how much work that is and is simply not practical for a general discussion forum."

Agreed. Hopefully now you understand that this is not the case.

Hopefully these answers satisfy you. If not, feel free to follow up! I'll always be around.

Tao.

It is worthwhile to review how DashNation got started. There was a train wreck, toxic, free-for-all Dash Slack forum. It was awful. Tao recognized that it was due to poor moderating. DashNation Slack was born with real moderation and clearly stated rules. It rapidly replaced the other thing, which immediately died. The difference was night and day.
solarguy

Very good point. Forum moderation is about the "dictator" you prefer since there are alternative vehicles available.

Now that Tao has some competition it will give him extra hearing power to listen to criticism. All the same, he's the best, most unbiased forum "dictator" the community has (IMO) at the moment and has no axes to grind that I've ever seen other than the success of Dash. (And I've even seen him able to compromise on that - albeit philosophically).

Thank you very much for the kind words @roger. I also appreciate you putting “dictator” in quotations... ;-)

Let's say this proposal passes by a good margin. I like that, I'm a mod on DashNation. But I would not go so far as to say, "Ha ha! We were right. You were wrong. Go jump in a lake."

I for one welcome competition and diversity.
solarguy

That's the spirit!

:-) Dash FTW.

Yes. The simple fact that this Discord exists is neither here nor there with me, as I’ve stated on multiple occasions. This proposal is about continuing the steady job Dash Nation is doing cultivating a respectful, engaged communities. I wish Dash Talk Discord no ill will. Decentralization! :-)

My DeepBlue account was blocked (Censored) at the DASH forum so that I could not use the DASH forum to post new messages.

My account was blocked after one of my posts was Moderated by Tao of Satoshi for "making speculation as fact" on one of my posts. The post was deleted and Tao had asked me to reword it. I was OK with that response however what I was not OK with was my account became blocked meaning I could not post new posts at Dash Forum. Note that my account had worked just fine for the entire time I had used it this year. It only became blocked after I made a post that was moderated by Tao.

My account became unblocked only after I posted the issue on dashcentral.org stating that I was going to make this issue public by recording a video showing my account was blocked and would post the link to the video on DashCentral. Then, magically, my DeepBlue account became "unblocked" and fully usable again - after 2 whole days of not being able to use the account. If the unmoderated DashCentral did not exist I fear my account would still be blocked today.

I had requested information from Tao, Fernando, Tungfa as to why my account was blocked and nobody gave me a reasonable explanation. Not one person in that list knew anything about what may have caused my DeepBlue account to be blocked. The comment that I got was "it only happened to my account" . Actually, no Tao, that is not correct. MNO "Unstoppable" also had his account throttled at the forum after his post was moderated. So, no it did not just happen to my account. It has happened to other accounts as well.

I own a web business and work with web devs I therefore did the necessary tests to confirm my DeepBlue account was indeed being blocked by someone at the Dash Forum and it was not due to any other factor such as IP, Internet connection, PC, browser or Browser cache.

These are the tests I did to confirm my DeepBlue account was being blocked by someone at DashCentral:

I used a VPN to set a different IP addresses to try and login in with my DeepBlue although I could login after an extended time the page load times were being throttled to such and extent that a pages were timing out. I then closed the browser and with the same IP address, computer and internet, created a brand new test account. This I could do with no problem and the issue of being blocked did not occur with the test account. Everything worked fine with the test account.

I therefore cleared the browser cache and again tried to login in with the same browser, same computer, same IP and same internet connection with my DeepBlue account and I could not use the DASH forum.

I then repeated the above tests with different browsers, Google Chrome, Firefox, and Opera - clearing all cache before the tests. The same issue occurred. I could not use the forum with my DeepBlue account but could do so without a problem on a dummy test account.

I then repeated the above tests on a different PC. The same. DeepBlue account was blocked but a test account with a different username was not blocked.

I then repeated the above tests at 3 different times of the day for 2 consecutive days. I could not use the DASH forum with my DeepBlue account.

Since the response from Tao, TungFa and Fernando is they don't know anything then my conclusion is that my account was indeed censored.

This incident made me realise the importance of having another public message area that cannot be censored, or controlled by DASH core. This is absolutely essential. All I can say is thank goodness to DashCentral not being censurable by core or by the Dash Forum moderators.

I am all for moderation to ensure fair debate without the flames. I totally agree to having respect for other members and if there is a disagreement then stating that in a tactful way so that the debate remains healthy.

What I am dead against however is having our voices muted completely. By doing this a "preferred message" is being propagated. That is not freedom of Speech Tao. That is *not* acceptable behaviour.

I've been very vocal about DASH core being more transparent. In that debate many positive things have come out of that dialogue. e.g. now Dash Core team are posting at the top of their proposals all their other requests for funding in a round of funding so that other communities can see this and not get burned out by Core dropping in another proposal. I also raised issues on the PR for DASH core and we now know we need another PR company to represent the network DashForceNews are now working on that with another PR firm. We also need another marketing department other than core. I raised all of these issues through heated debased at uncensored DASHCentral. I very much doubt my voice would have been tolerated in the Dash Forum.

After my account was censored I realised how important independently run DashCentral is to get our message out. I then realise how Roger Ver must have felt to be censored out of the bitcoin forum. I realised the tremendous danger this posses. Being blocked when you have something to say that goes against the status quo is a terrible feeling.

I would like the following questions answered before I can decide how to vote on this proposal. Note I asked these questions in the DASH forum to Tao of Satoshi but did not get a reply to these specific questions.

1. Who decides a member can be censored i.e. blocked?
2. What procedure is there if someone is to be blocked?
3. What steps can a blocked person take to restore their account (if any)
4. If an account is blocked how long can it take to be re-activated and what are the steps to reactivating.
5. Are the other members of the forum admin advised when they block and account? It may be that one admin simply blocks and account because they don't like the person or that they don't like the post. How can we protect users against this possibility?
6. If an account is blocked is the user able to at least still login to DASH Central or are they not permitted access?
7. When an account is blocked and I eventually got access why is it that nobody knew anything.
8. How do the rest of the Dash Community know that an account has been censored? I suggest that all censored accounts should be posted publicly on the DASH forum with a reason and the post itself. Then the community have the right to unblock the account if they wish by voting on it.
9. Who specifically blocked my account on the Dash Forum? And what steps have been taken to ensure this cannot happen again?

I now strongly believe that DashCentral never get into the control of Dash Core Group or be moderated. To do this would silence the last free communication outlet for people that have an opposing voice to DCG. This is absolutely essential. We must have an avenue that is uncensored.

I want to know what happened to my Dash Forum account and who specifically was responsible for blocking my account. If there is no valid response then I will be voting "NO" on this proposal. The reason I will have to vote no is because given a choice between a polite environment and freedom of speech I choose freedom of speech.

I await on the questions posted above before making my votes.

The simple answer to this criticism is that was a technical issue. I’m not an IT person, I can only work with the tools the forum gives me. While your post did run afoul of the rules, you didn’t deserve to lose access to your account. I honestly don’t know what happened to your accounts, but I can assure you I was not responsible for it.

The forum software seems to have some sort of bug in it. The fact that Fernando and Tungfa couldn’t explain it either leads me to believe that is the case. Their permissions are higher than mine on the forum. Im sorry for what happened, and saddened you still haven’t been able to get your account back.

@TaoOfSatoshi, I've asked 9 questions above. Are you going to provide an answer to these questions?

@DeepBlue, I have responded to your questions in-depth above. Please post again if there are any further questions.

Respect,
Tao.

Tao and Dash Nation have persevered through the many challenges we have faced. Dash Nation has my full support.

Thank you, my friend!

This may be a bit of a tough question, but if I may ask.
What are the plans if, (and I really hope it doesn't), something were to happen to you? Is there a line of succession defined for who'll get custody over the Dash Nation platforms (At least until there has been an opportunity to submit a new proposal to the network and MNOs to vote on it)?

A fair question. This contract is for moderation services for Dash Nation on Discord, Dashpay subreddit, and Dash Forum. It's important to note that Dash Forum and Dashpay subreddit are not under the control of the Dash Nation DFO, we simply help to create a positive, respectful atmosphere on those forums.

Dash Nation on Discord, however, is fully under my control. I honestly haven't given it much thought, as I am a healthy young man. It's worth having a discussion about, IMO. I would be flattered if the network sought to take over Dash Nation on Discord in my death, nothing would please me more. It would be the ultimate vindication of my life's work.

@Tao

Question:
Even do I side with you, I would like to see some more improvement when it comes to applying rules.
For example I think extreme cases, concerning permanent bans of people that have a long standing history should be decided by more than one moderator. Maybe even a secret/hidden moderator that can there by not be affect by personal attacks.

Yes, major moderation decisions are always discussed with the team to come to a consensus before applying the action. In the case of close opinions pro and con, as head moderator I will make the final call. My team understands this, and supports me on it. Thanks for your support!

Up until reading you're post a was going to vote yes. But if I understand you correctly Dash nation is yours, and yours alone?!? That simply will not do ! it about the principles of Dash, dictatorship is not one of them, I only accept such thing because it temporally situation, needed to move forward.

Dash Nation on Discord was established by me, yes. Please explain what issue you have with this, and I will do my best to ease your concerns.

Just to be clear it doesn't have been tomorrow, maybe not even 1 or 2 years or so, but something that constantly get worked on.

I’m not understanding the issue you’re having. Please clarify your concerns so that I may properly address them.

The issue I have it's your treating it like your cashcow and your business. Right now you're controlling the main dash channels. I think the best solution would be that we would be able to fire you just like we can fire Ryan Taylor anybody else for that matter.

This criticism is baseless.

Tao's biased moderation actions and unprofessional behavior towards others do not represent the demeanor I want people to see in the Dash community. I'm also concerned about a dangerous precedent of censorship and suppression being set, as Tao has stated several times that his proposal passing was a "mandate by the network" to moderate as he saw fit. I watched him complain about "allegations of censorship" literally seconds after he engaged in censorship by deleting messages that broke no official rules, except perhaps those that can be so broadly interpreted as to cover anything he wants. Perhaps it's best for the network to issue a gentle reminder that he is a steward, not an overlord.

A forum moderator is supposed to be biased. But biased in favour of the general interests of productive community discourse as opposed to any particular non-community private interest.

It would be useful if you could specify which "private, non-community interest" the DN moderation has been favouring if you really want to make a claim of "bias".

I’m open to discussing any proof you have of any of these allegations. This narrative of dictatorship is baseless. Ask any member of my team. We are all here to serve the network. Building a strong community is what matters, and sometimes that means owning up to mistakes, and learning from them.

Big thank you to Tao for coming in to help with Reddit -- I feel that Reddit has been our most-improved public community area in the last few months.

Real-time chat has many advantages for a project like Dash. It is an excellent tool to help onboard/educate people about Dash, and it is also a much faster way to hash out arguments when it comes to the vision for the project, and the merits of treasury proposals. It is a natural hotbed for Dash-politics, and we have witnessed many such political battles. As a MNO, I have found that these discussions have been very helpful to me so that I can cast the most informed vote that I can, and I hope that others have had a similar experience. However at the same time, tensions can run high when there are folks with strong convictions on opposing sides of an issue. To me, the greatest value is extracted when all contributors to the discussion feel welcome, and when there is a culture of respect and professionalism. That is what I view as my role as a moderator to help facilitate. It is my goal to help individuals to be able to present their core arguments while maintaining an environment where folks with different opinions still want to engage. It has been a pleasure to work with Tao, the other moderators, and all of you to help us all make the most of this platform.

I am grateful for your support!

you got my support Tao

Cheers.

I’ll be back tonight to address further comments. Thanks all, the Dash Nation team appreciates your interest.

Tao got a bit power hungry and felt the need to assert full control in how he moderates. It sometimes feels like the father who’s disappointed in his son when he talks to people. It gets really tiring.

He also loves deleting stuff. Censorship is not something we like in the crypto world even if moderation is necessary.

He’s quick to remind people “it’s my private Discord”. The community feel has gone and it’s turn into a “benevolent” dictatorship.

If people keep posting comments that violates the rules of Dash Nation on the sites that are moderated by DN (most specifically rule 3 : no passing of unproven speculation/claims as fact), then it is not surprising to see posts getting deleted.

It does not make Tao a dictator, it makes him moderator that is just doing his job.

Couple of points on this rule #3 'spec as fact'. Does Tao claim to know all the facts so he can justly apply the rule? Have you read this post https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/9k9ozn/an_official_message_from_the_dash_nation_on/e6z3zuj/ We can see the rule is not applied fairly, for example it is perfectly OK to state that "The price of DASH will be $350 by the end of September" and not be challened on it, in fact a moderator made the claim the subject of the dash-markets channel! Also, if MNOs are voting NO for this proposal could it mean they wish for the rule to change or the application of it?

Stating that the price of Dash will be a certain price at a certain time is pure speculation. If that speculation is presented as a fact then that is not okay and moderators should step in. If you disagree with Dash Nation rules then i advice you to switch to a forum that does not have those rules.

If MNO's are voting NO on this budget proposal, then that simply means they dont want this budget proposal funded. Unless they clarify their NO vote in the comments, it will remain anyone's opinion why MNO's voted NO .. which gets us nowhere.

Price speculation is of course an exception. We are all adults, we understand this.

No one has all the facts. There are some things that are cut and dry, and some that need to be discussed. All decisions and actions are posted to the moderation channel, if someone has an issue, they are free to speak up.

I will let the MNOs be the judge if the positive, respectful environment Dash Nation has created is of value to them.

Speculation in speculation sub, is perfectly normal. Very view people took that serious, but perhaps "speculation should be added" Would this be decent solution ?

I think it would help if people who feel a need to speculate in DN moderated forums, emphasize in their posts that it is their personal opinion which should not be viewed as fact. With regards to the speculation sub and how to moderate that with regards to rule 3, i leave that up to the DN moderators... but personally i feel there should be space to freely speculate in a specific speculation sub.

Absolutely.

I will take this under consideration.

Precisely. Thanks for the support, long-time friend.

To cedbrown: Tao (and other mods) frequently ask the op to remove the swear word, or whatever it was that broke the rules, so they can put their post back up. That is not the behavior of a tyrant.
solarguy

Thanks, team!

This is a disappointing comment. Please take a look at the caliber of people I have assembled in my moderation team. Long standing community members, respected MNOs, and people who are known to be balanced and fair. Do you really think they would support me if the baseless narrative that I’m a dictator, supported by the splinter faction was true? Think about it. The Dash Nation DFO works as a team, I’m simply their leader.

All moderation decisions are applied based on fairness to the rules, nothing else. Posts that run afoul of the rules can not remain.

Why are some no votes posted against one of the most successful community growth facilities Dash has ever had ?

Because they support censorship. Use r/dashuncensored for details.

They ban you if you question them or the team.

There was a recent disagreement among some of the moderation staff, some of which split off and created their own Discord server called Dash Talk sponsored primarily by Dash Force.

So because 3 people felt "censored" that means the facility is not successful and shouldn't be supported ? I've never been aware of any adverse sentiment amongst the more widespread subscriber base. Nor have I ever felt unable to express any relevant viewpoints on there as long as civilly presented.

> I've never been aware of any adverse sentiment amongst the more widespread subscriber base.

Yes that is how censorship works. It hides dissenting opinions and creates echo chambers.

These people are a cancer to Dash.

That’s because none exists.

You are a giant cunt. Bet you want to ban me for saying that, but here you can't.

Suck on it you censorship faggot.

Roger, it is not just 3 people, it is many members of the community that have been directly affected or are unhappy at the excessive moderation and tyrannical dictatorship that is Dash Nation, Tao himself as openly stated that he alone makes the final decision. He often overrides his moderation team or makes decisions on his own without consulting the mod team. He also does not fairly apply the 'speculation as fact' rule. I could go, but instead I will link a couple places you can get more info on the matter.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/9k9ozn/an_official_message_from_the_dash_nation_on/

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/9k9ozn/an_official_message_from_the_dash_nation_on/e6z3zuj/

https://www.dashnation.com/news/an-official-message-from-the-dash-nation-moderation-team/

https://www.dashforcenews.com/dash-talk-discord-server-launches/

The are kind of flimsy criticisms. You really think the new one's going to be any less contentious ?

The significant point here is the general principal and objectives behind the moderation policy and the facility in general. In the case of the DN forum, it was to encourage widespread appeal and and a civilised atmosphere which did not make "newcomers" feel uncomfortable. It has been hugely successful in that regard which is not an easy achievement to sustain.

People can publish all the "high-minded" moderation policy guidance they like but at the end of the day, someone's got to arbitrate on it - it's a discussion forum after all, not a national democracy.

The DN "idea" - as far as I can tell - was formed to promote ubiquitous growth amongst the wider population, not as a talking shop for a few hard core Dash insiders. One positive aspect of the "decamping" of the latter that I've noticed is that it has now returned to that role. New names that I haven't seen before are now posting and civilised, informative discourse still prevails.

For that reason I think this proposal should be supported.

Thank you!

i fully agree.

Agreed, personally i will not be joining a channel that is not strictly moderated.
I have no interest wasting my time with concern trolls that bring speculation as fact.
There is plenty of places to do so, one can even make there own channel.

I am 100% certain the new one will be allot worst, what I have read and seeing latest are personal attacks below the belt form DFN. Personally I believe DFN needs to put some better rules in place, that will improve in the flow of regular news readers as well.

Agreed. There is a silver lining here. Thanks for the comment.

The only people I’m aware of who are upset over this are the leaders of the splinter faction, and the people who believe their baseless narratives of dictatorship and censorship.

Basically they where forming a block against Dash nation.
They created the new discord channel Dash talk in secret.
All the while the remained moderators on Dash Nation.

I don't think anybody in his right mind would allow that to continue.

@A_node_to_a_Master, are you in a cult?

"They created the new discord channel Dash talk in secret" and "formed a block": Anyone who creates a new Dash Discord is operating "in secret"? Do you understand what you wrote and how it sounds?

Did you know DF was paying DN's mods and now they've moved on from that? No shenanigans at all but good try.

If you look around it's Tao that's trying to pre-empt any backlash by going on a super offensive saying, they caught him "unaware" and "surprised" when it was Tao that suggested they should create their own Discord when he was being a tyrant. Meanwhile, see how quiet DF has been except for one major response on Reddit to Tao's claims (I'm sure he found the response "disappointing" too).

Don't make it sound like Tao has been victimized and people should go through him before started a new group.

Look, in the larger picture, Dash's MN and treasury system is revolutionary but it's got a few inherent issues with it. Let me rephrase, humans have a problem and it spills over to the treasury and MN system.

It's that long time proposal winners like Kuva, Tao and even a few Core proposal sometimes eventually get complacent and expect renewals every cycle. Winning becomes easy and then they have to defend themselves suddenly. When this happens they get either indignant, defensive, go on an uber offensive (Tao) and/or forget what the network wanted from them initially. Happens every time eventually.

Even ABJ is guilty of forgetting what the network wants from her, yet she keeps coming back for more.

The Dash teat is irresistible for some. It's like the ring.

P.S. Great job with the strong down votes on this page.

You bring up some good but you're opening is wrong if DFN was open and honest about it they should said so up front. They should do a post on DFN website before launching. I don't we should be making excuses.

Both sides have made mistakes, and both sides should tried to ease tension well before this explosion

I can’t comment in regards to the motives of the splinter faction, as that would be speculation, I can only comment on their actions.

A while ago, there was a dispute between myself along with other members of the moderation team vs. the current splinter faction.

In this argument, I made it clear that when it came to major moderation decisions, after the debate was had, the final decision rests with me, as I am responsible in the eyes of the network.

The channel became eerily quiet after that, and it wasn’t until a month later I found out why:

The leaders of the splinter faction, instead of being straight up with me that they wanted to create another server, which I would have respected, simply secretly created it and allowed rampant anti-Kuvacash and anti-Dash Nation rhetoric to permeate under their watch.

This indicated to me that they no longer represented the values of the Dash Nation team. I then took the action of dismissing them from their positions on Dash Nation on Discord.

The bitterness apparently remains, but I will not let that distract me from the task at hand, which is building a strong Dash Nation, taking us into a great future of Dash use around the world.

Thanks for the question!

"I am responsible in the eyes of the network."
Seriously that why you make it to, that really isn't the case.
You did a very good job so far, but it's like your making the same mistake all dictators make, with is changing from a leader to a dictator

Why not just call your competitors that do not have a central leadership figure "kooks"?
Nobody has to ask you or inform you in advance, don't you think?
I regret the split but I definitively would not put the blame on one side only and you are not doing yourself a favor doing so (how well did that work for Kuva?).
You want to be the well-paid leader, fair enough, and you are doing a decent job imho, but let's not engage in bashing the other side.

Macno, I am simply telling the truth.

I’m being as professional about it as I can. I’m not referring to anyone by name, and I’m not saying anything that’s not true.

If the truth hurts, it hurts. The facts are the facts, and I must stay true to them in the face of relentless attacks by certain parties.

Tao.

Well, I think I have a more unbiased view on what "the truth" is as I actually enjoy both channels and the work of both side, although your approach has more "Key Man Risk" and unlike you I am not the Key Man in question. What you write will only invite the "splinter faction" to respond I guess and I am not sure you really want that.

LOL@Macno you saying this:
Why not just call your competitors that do not have a central leadership figure "kooks"?
Which is clearly a reference to KuvaCash/Max Yoga.

And you call yourself more unbiased ?!?

Yes, it is a clear reference. It makes me biased towards whom or what?

I have nothing to hide. I welcome the opportunity to discuss any concerns anyone has. My door is always open.

One concern I had: By tying Dash Nation to your person (no matter how often you talk of yourself in the "we" form, you consider the former main community board as yours), you risk the funding of Dash Nation if MNOs don't like that approach. That risk has been mitigated by the split.
No need to disparage long standing community members who have a different approach and are building an alternative.
I don't want to land in one camp or the others. Looks like the same divisive rhetoric that you did not moderate when Drako engaged in it. I don't want to say Kuva, because it's just him, just like NOT ONE other Mod in your team is a problem to anyone, but you lost several former mods. That's not good leadership. But - just like with Drako - I guess I could as well talk to a wall, as you don't take any responsibility whatsoever for the problems you now have.
That's the truth, even if it hurts you, as you have something to lose - unlike myself.

@Macno, for what I have seen Max Yoga can be very direct an rude. But when you compare his behavior to Joel, he is clearly ahead by miles.

I clearly disagree.

I have discussed with them both, have you ? Max Yoga do being rude has answered all my concerns about KuvaCash, Joel on the other hands shows up out nothing simply to troll people that ask no voter why the voted no. With no proper answers give there simply is no point of Joel to act this childish

Macno, to be clear, we did moderate Drako when he engaged in it. He did have some content deleted and in other instances he was asked to revise or retract his statements to be in line with the rules. He was also issued multiple official warnings and was then also issued a temporary ban, in accordance with our escalation process.

So there is no more "us rational Kuva Fan Boys versus those emotional kooky detractors" nonsense going on? Great.

Never has been "kuva fan boys" all I see is people voting no with no proper reasons given why the voted no.

If the "emotional kooky detractors" give sufficient explanation why the voted no, they can no longer be classified as such, but until they do, it seems that Max Yoga seemed to have struck the right nerve (I not agreeing with him to say use political incorrect things)

If someone thinks that some votes are influenced by emotion, they are free to express that provided that such a claim is presented as an opinion. Regarding the term "kooky", this is a particularly inflammatory term to use and we have noticed that it has been a significant distraction in the conversations, so the mod team has officially asked people to not use that terminology going forward.

"people".

Thanks for the more subdued tone here. Appreciated.

To address your points:

From the standpoint of the Dash Nation DFO, nothing has changed. As I mentioned in the above history, Dash Nation Slack was started by my team and I, and Dash Nation on Discord was established by my team and I.

The fact that we did a great job with the atmosphere there made it these forums the de facto places for Dash real-time communication and collaboration.

It was the community that suggested that we expand our efforts to the other two forums, which was what the “Dash Nation on Discord Renewal (Expanding To Other Forums)” proposal was all about.

This proposal was supported by an almost 10-1 ratio as a vote of confidence in the work we’ve done on Discord.

I ask you, other than a change of staff, what changes exist from my last proposal to this one?

The answer is none, and we would very much like the opportunity to continue our work because that’s what will set Dash apart from other communities. Having respectful positive forums to please community members and attract newcomers. The Dash Nation DFO takes pride in our history, and the work we’ve done. The results speak for themselves.

Good morning all! My goodness, a healthy debate ensues... A million thanks to those who voted YES, and I will now attempt to sway the opinions of those who voted no. Please stand by.