Proposal “DASH-US-Tax-Guide“ (Closed)Back

Title:Tax Guide for Dash Masternodes, Miners and Investors
Owner:AttorneyJohnFlynn
One-time payment: 26 DASH (1428 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (1 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-01-17 / 2018-02-16 (added on 2018-01-16)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 411 Yes / 319 No / 33 Abstain

Proposal description

Since posting this proposal mid-month, I have answered a great deal of questions in the comments below.  I have been perplexed by the lack of traction and wonder if MNOs aren't just seeing "taxes" and being turned off.  I believe I have made a modest, decent, cogent proposal in good faith and would urge you to vote yes and if, after reading all of my responses in the comments, still cannot support, to at least abstain.  Thank you.

Hello everyone. My name is John Flynn and I’m an attorney in Central Arkansas. I’ve been in solo practice for 18 years, representing primarily small businesses and consumers in bankruptcy, and estate and tax planning. I graduated from Baylor Law School in 1999.  Here is my Avvo profile, where I am rated 10.0 out of 10: https://www.avvo.com/attorneys/72023-ar-john-flynn-1680103.html

With the substantial gains experienced in the cryptocurrency space, and particularly Dash, in the last year, it seems to me that many are concerned about taxes. With Dash, there appear special concerns that Masternodes have as well

With this proposal, I will write and publish in the public domain a Dash Tax Guide. This is entirely distinct from and more thorough than the tax coverage at the Dash website. As I am an American attorney, it would be US focused, and I hope would spur attorneys in other countries to propose similar guides. This will be a booklet written in layman’s terms, avoiding the legalese and complexities that a more comprehensive treatment might include. I would expect it to be between 18–30 pages and I would publish in PDF and Word on the Dash Forums and subreddit. I would also publish free through Smashwords which would get it on iBooks, Barnes and Noble and other ebook outlets for free, which would also have the effect of promoting Dash through those online publishing outlets.

I expect the research, writing and editing to take me 60-80 hours and I will guarantee publication by April 15th, 2018.

This proposal is for 26 Dash, broken down as follows:

Proposal Fee: 5 Dash
LexisNexis / Legal Research costs: 3.5 Dash
Editing: 1 Dash
Attorney Time in Research and Writing: 16.5 Dash


My pre-proposal thread on Dash Forum can be found here: https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-dash-u-s-tax-guide-for-masternodes-miners-and-investors.26769/


Thank you,

John Flynn

EDIT: The high number of no votes makes no sense to me. If you’re a Masternode, think about what a no vote on a modest law-related proposal such as this means. No one is going to risk 5 Dash going forward on a law-related proposal ever again if something like this can’t pass. It makes no sense to vote no on this. 

If you are inclined to vote against this for philosophical reasons such as that you are an anarchocapitalist who doesn't intend to comply with taxation or government authority, please abstain rather than voting no.  I have made this proposal in good faith after fine tuning it over the course of two pre-proposals and do not believe I should be penalized with the loss of 5 Dash over this.  Thank you.

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

Submit comment
 
1 point,4 years ago
@attorneyflynn could you do usa + canada if i sponsored your next proposal?
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Yes I think finding a Canadian attorney to work with me would be much more realistic than some of the ideas about getting 5 or 6 attorneys from different countries together.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
If you wish to sponsor another proposal I would of course reimburse the 5 Dash if it passes, you can contribute to this address: Xov3TRzFoEbWQRBWKtz63WPZtH3A7FL2f8
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Sadly this didnt pass attorneyflynn had a good idea
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Voted Yes on this even though I live in the UK, as while the exact laws wouldn't be valid here, they would be a general guidance.
It seems like this proposal will fail as as nudfelsyoshy stated, it won't have "international repercussions" in the same way that increasing usage in Venezuela might.
My advice would be to buy some Dash, HODL it for a year and submit the proposal again next year.
OR, try and join up with some other tax lawyers in the UK, Canada, Australia, China, Korea & Japan and produce all the documents under 1 proposal sharing the submission fee.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
If it fails, as I agree it appears on track to do, I’m definitely never resubmitting this one. And I’m likely never submitting another proposal as I believed I had done this right, and there is no rhyme or reason to this result. While I agree that an international proposal as you suggest would likely have better prospects, the idea of getting 5 or 6 lawyers together from different countries to work together on a project like this seems unlikely to me. Thanks for your vote and input though.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
I am very torn.
I agree that we need to pay taxes. And I agree that the situation (at least in my country) is not clear.

I am not from the US; I am from a country in the EU which is particularly slow in developing its laws and tends to copy the succesful (when we get it right) procedures of other countries. And the unsuccesful (when the lobbies get it right) ones the rest of the time. A country where Roman law is applied, which I have been told it's structurally different from the law in Britain and the US.

The latest thing my tax advisor eventually told me was: "what you do is too advanced for the laws in our country, so we will present the gains of the money you bring back into FIAT and wait for the smoke to clear out to know how to handle the rest".

So there is a big need. But your proposal does not satisfy this need, because it only covers a single country. I understand you are only allowed to speak for that country, but I know that while a similar proposal for Canada and the UK might come eventually. There will never be enough support for each country in the map. So we need to have proposals that are somehow more international althogh might be more general.

And approving this seems to me that is sending a message in the wrong direction: it is sending the message that creating a proposal that is affecting a single country is ok. It's not. Every time we support something in a country (a conference, a radio program, a local exchange, ...) we expect the reprecussion to go worldwide. If Dash was accepted as a means of payment in Spain or Portugal or Zimbabwe (to name just 3 that came out recently) this would raise it's status internationally.

Can your proposal have international repercussions? Can you write something in some legal code that would help lawyers in other country have an easy way in sorting it out too?

P.S. I think it is disgraceful that the cost to present a proposal is 5 dash instead of 50 dollars. I always voted to lower this and presented several alternatives in the dash forum. And in case I decide not to support it, I will abstein. But first let's see if we can find a way to work together through the ocean.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
I just checked how much you are asking. It's definitely not a lot. (You are crazy risking 5 dash to ask for 20 more). I am voting yes, but please find ways to make this more international.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thanks for your thoughts. All I can say is I did two preproposals. The first one was in the 85 Dash range and was for a broader, more wide ranging “Law and tax guide”. The main feedback I got was that it was “too expensive” and “too ambitious” for a first time proposal. I was encouraged to scale it down. So my second pre-proposal was for a tax guide only in the 20 Dash range. That got no detractors and folks who were skeptical about the previous pre-proposal said they’d support this one. So I believed I had a winner. I didn’t believe it was much of a risk. All of that said, I don’t understand the idea of people voting against it because it doesn’t cover the whole world. That’s not how the law works. You’ll never have legal solutions through the Dash Treasury if this is the result.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
I voted yet and think that this is very needed. Can't see why it's not passing.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
Thanks!
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
This seems like a pretty plain and simple "yes". I don't understand the downvotes either.

That said, I disagree with the edits. If this doesn't pass, no matter the reason, you risked the 5 Dash to discover the network's verdict. The loss of that Dash has already occurred, now you are waiting to see whether your research, presentation skills, timing, and luck will be rewarded or not. Asking us to vote a certain way out of sympathy weakens your appeal.
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
Hi John....I voted Yes...even though I'm in Canada. This is super important stuff so much so...I would help sponsor something like this. I think there are many in the crypto sphere that just don't understand the implications and benefits. Don't be discouraged.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thanks. But I’m pretty discouraged. As I stated in response to someone else, I did two preproposals and believed I had honed this to something that should easily pass. And here I stand. I can’t imagine ever making another proposal after being burned like this oh well.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Disappointed to see this not getting traction. We can really use Attorney Flynn. He seems very sincere and would do a good job. Request others to re-consider.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
Thank you very much.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
you got my support, good luck.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you!
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Voting Yes. We all need to be aware of the current tax code and how it affects Dash and crypto in general. This way, in the future, maybe we can effectively lobby for a more favorable tax code. "Ignorantia juris non excusat" - Wesley Snipes
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you. If you have way of communicating with your fellow masternodes that would be appreciated. I’m having trouble imagining why there are so many no votes on this.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Attorney John...is it as simple as the NO votes rebuff any idea of accepting that their cryptocurrency holdings and activity are potentially liable to tax..? Or something else?
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
I suppose some hardcore anarchocapitalists might vote no almost as a protest against the idea of recognizing the legitimacy of taxing authorities, but that would be an immature response when one considers that, at least American-based folks need to engage with the IRS to avoid having men with guns ultimately show up at one's home.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
MNO in Sydney, Australia. I am currently pursuing advice via the only crypto savvy accountant in Australia I am aware of in Perth. You will get the yes from me.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Thank you. It seems the no votes don’t want to chime in with their reasoning though. It makes no sense. I can’t afford to try and help DASH any further if I lose $4-5K every time I try.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
I have a suggestion...I will message you direct later
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
John...your comment in your edit is extremely insightful
Keep moving forward
Christopher
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thanks, I'm trying. I don't know what to make of it when something like this is being downvoted for no apparent reason. If I had asked for 500 Dash for some vague marketing bullshit it would probably be passing, but instead I'm offering a tangible product that people can read for themselves once delivered by a date certain. Oh well.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
The fact that what you are saying true makes me feel very sorry about this situation.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Definitely torn but overall glad to have another smart person willing to do work for Dash.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you. I’m curious though as to what makes you feel torn about it? I see somewhat vague marketing proposals for three and four figures of DASH passing easily with little resistance, and yet this is a proposal which will have a tangible product delivered in the public domain by a date certain and it’s only for 26 DASH (21 after proposal fee).
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
I'm still rooting for you John. I am somewhat mystified why this is not passing with flying colors. We need more experts/consultants to keep us competitive in the very-high-stakes relationship we have with the nice taxing authorities in the U.S. The only thing I can think of to explain this, is that the majority of MasterNodes are not in/from the US. But even if that it true, bear in mind that the regulatory and taxing policies around the world frequently look to the US to help determine their local policies.

So even if you think this doesn't apply to you (those outside the U.S.) it does.

We cannot have too many experts and consultants in this space. John's asking price is a drop in the total budget this month, and a very reasonable price in any case. I also think about how this relationship could develop in the future. If John does this research, he could become a valuable tool if we ever decide to pursue active lobbying for Dash.

Note that a lot happens in the last three days of voting. It ain't over till it's over.

Carry on, have fun, win!

solarguy
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Solarguy, thank you for your support. I agree that I could be of benefit to DASH in the future if needed. I saw this as a need I was confident I could fill in the near term, but I’m definitely open to future projects that may require legal advice or action on behalf of the network.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
usefull, yes
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thanks for the support!
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
Lol taxes meh
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Yes, it can be boring but it’s something we have to deal with.
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
Nah we really don’t need to deal with it honestly. Government can’t freeze my account, can’t control my funds, or even find my funds. Soo the government has no way to even go after you ??‍♂️
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Ok. Do you own a house? A car? Gold or silver or anything that can be taken away from you? Do you interact with the legacy banking system in any way? Are you walking around free? The government can take away your stuff and your freedom. True, you can take your cryptos with you to prison in a brainwallet, but seriously, if you live in a first world country, you have to interact with government. I hate it too, but it’s a fact of life. And I think those who choose to follow those rules should have the resources to allow them to minimize their downside in such dealings.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Will you also research whether non-incorporated MN rewards are 1) treated as ordinary income at Dash price on date of reward, or 2) cost basis zero and treated as capital gains only upon sale or trade, or 3) a mix of 1 and 2 - treated as ordinary income at Dash price on date of reward and cost basis is Dash price on date of reward, or 4) something else
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Yes, that is definitely a unique issue for masternodes and something I will be researching and covering in this material.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Will you do research into incorporating a Masternode to classify the income from it as income rather than capital gain?

I have no concept of whether this is legal/possible, it is just an idea.
Reply
3 points,4 years ago
Yes, that is definitely one of the areas I intend to cover. Any tax issue related to unique concerns of masternodes, miners or investors I will include. My goal is to make this a thorough, yet easily read and understood guidebook.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Awesome you have a Yes from me
Reply
4 points,4 years ago
Voting Yes. Worth a shot. Reasonable price.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you, I won't let the community down!
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
I find the price is not unreasonable at all for this level of professional research. I, and some of my cohorts, are dealing with the problem of being an American citizen, but living and working in another country. The US is one of only a tiny handful of countries that insist you pay taxes to the US Feds if you are a U.S. citizen, even if you don't live or work in the US.

Let me just assure the Dash community that FBAR and FATCA filing requirements are not a walk in the park. And while Mr. Flynn is (very legitimately) only dealing with the tax implications of the U.S., I believe we are also creating another (independent and redundant) specialist for Masternodes that have to interact with the IRS. We need this new resource.

For those who think this a straightforward, cut and dried issue, I would encourage you to do a google search for FBAR and FATCA regulations and filing requirements, offsetting foreign tax credits, etc. They should have named it FUBAR......

Carry on, have fun, win! solarguy
(voting yes if that was not obvious)
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
Very good points, thank you!
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
This is needed not only for the USA but for the whole world as general legal guidelines.
Voting Yes
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you!
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
Voted YES. Important to have a good tax resource. Reasonably priced proposal.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thank you, I look forward to filling this need!
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
Why only have the US as scope? Dash is worldwide.
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
I’m an American attorney and only qualified to prepare materials related to the US tax code. If this is successful I would envision attorneys or tax professionals in other countries might make similar proposals.
Reply
-1 point,4 years ago
Voting yes
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
Thanks!
Reply
-3 points,4 years ago
Hello Mr. John Flynn! Please, make a video talking about DASH and more details of your proposal. Do you have social media profiles?
Reply
1 point,4 years ago
@tuapoma - it is abusive for you to go to a number of the proposals and ask them to do a video and try and get their personal and work profiles. Most proposal owners work hard on their proposals and don't need your silly demands.
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
mr. viamontelane, you do not have to be offended because the act itself is not offensive
Reply
-4 points,4 years ago
Too much money for a cut and paste of what the IRS has already published. Sorry. No.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
If you honestly believe this would be a "cut and paste" of anything, then you are mistaken. If people could rely on the meager information put out by the IRS, they wouldn't have to hire accountants and tax lawyers. The fact of the matter is there is not direct, easily accessible resource for this and I would be engaging in original research and writing.

John Flynn
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
The Core group has already contracted and posted a paper re: tax legal position. I took it to my accountant. It seems that it was enough for her to understand how the IRS expects Dash Masternodes to be handled. She has never worked with one before but understood the IRS categorizations. Please explain why a more detailed work should be done by you beyond what the IRS has already published on the subject. Will you be, and are you qualified to, publish something for multiple countries that would be considered authoritative to their respective governments? By the way, people *are* obligated to rely on the (voluminous and not at all meager) info put out by the IRS. They must hire lawyers and accountants anyway who will represent them personally through power-of attorney agreements. Yes? No? Thanks.
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
The webpage with a few paragraphs that I have seen as DASH Core's tax page is extremely brief. Most of the legal info there is geared toward KYC/AML obligation of exchanges. I have no doubt your accountant drew on her experience and knowledge in addition to what the Core's webpage had. And while, yes, the Internal Revenue Code is voluminous, the treatment of issues related to cryptocurrency in general and DASH in particular is meager at best.

I am only qualified to prepare a work for US taxpayers only. Certainly if this proposal is successful it might encourage others in other countries to make similar proposals, but if this is shot down, I cannot imagine anyone putting out 5 DASH to make a similar proposal for Great Britain or Canada or Japan or wherever.

My qualifications include nearly 20 years experience counseling and representing small businesses and individuals. I graduated from Baylor Law School in 1999 and while I'm not terribly fond of attorneys with my level of experience referring back to law school, I do think many will find it heartening to note that I received Top Paper (highest grade) in my Federal Income Taxation class my third year.

I will also note that with the absolute bloodbath in coin prices today, unless there's a substantial recovery, the network is getting my work at a substantial discount on this one. I normally charge $325 per hour, and I'm guessing I'll be working for about half price on this one (I was already discounting somewhat originally), but I'm happy to do it as it will be an interesting diversion for me, and it's better than just losing 5 DASH.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

John Flynn
Reply
2 points,4 years ago
You have my support, John. Your thoughtful reply tells me that you will do a great job for us. Hoping this passes..
Reply
0 points,4 years ago
Yes you are right
Reply