Proposal “DASH-E-AIR“ (Closed)Back

Title:DASH-E-AIR the Electric airline run entirely on DASH and Electricity
Owner:p5yc071c
Monthly amount: 850 DASH (475370 USD)
Completed payments: no payments occurred yet (24 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2017-06-03 / 2019-06-13 (added on 2016-08-28)
Final voting deadline: in passed
Votes: 25 Yes / 433 No / 0 Abstain

Proposal description

This is a proposal to convert a multi-engine airplane to full electric and run an electric airline. 
​
Here's my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuYBhM-mCSoUXg9U-...​
​
Potential Aircraft to convert include 
Cessna 320: http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/1441639/1964-cessna-320 
​Payload is appx: 1750lbs

King Air 350:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_Super_Kin...
Payload of appx 5,500lbs
​
Using Tesla Smart Car batteries(42lbs and 3kwh): http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPa...
​​We would be able to carry appx 100kwh on the Cessna or 300kwh on the King Air.  
​
Elon Musk's opinion on electric aircraft - Checkout this video from Nov 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx3auTD85Fw I'll transcript a bit here: "To have a compelling electric aircraft you only need about 400Whrs/kg. Provided the percent of cell on the craft is high...If it's sort of at the 70% level at 400Whrs/kg you could do very decent range." So he's saying that you need to go BIGGER not SMALLER with the aircraft...you're not going to get 70% batteries on an aircraft that looks like an overgrown mosquito.  This is why it must be a multi-engine aircraft. 

Issues with proposed solutions:

Batteries: 
Choice #1 - Tesla Smart Car batteries from EVWest...they come with a 3 yr guarantee and potential to monitor the pack at the 3kw level. 
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=329&osCsid=nvhtb7gla1isn5rvj757id3b74
Choice#2 - Valence ...come with a BMS mounted on each one which might prove to be extra weight that we wouldn't want. 
https://www.valence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Valence_Module_Range_Sept-2015.pdf

Motors:
This is the next hardest piece after the weight and balance as the currently available electric motors are either extremely underpowered or weigh tons (no really...like more than one)...For this reason I think we need to buy/build a test stand immediately and start figuring out that piece first. 
Choice #1 - EV West competed in the Pike's Peak ascent using a BMW with 700hp...full electric. They did this by attaching TWO electric motors to a single drive shaft. This is likely our best option as it gives gobs of power. We'll just need to make sure it plays well with the Prop and Governor. I'd like to have a prop with more as opposed to less blades...and making a Frankenplane with props from another model is potentially a solution. 
http://insideevs.com/ev-wests-e36-m3-ready-for-pikes-peak-videos-and-pictures/
​
They offer that motor here: http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPa...
Choice #2: UQM - 
https://www.uqm.com/home/default.aspx 

Props: 
Once you've got enough capacity and power, you've then got to deliver it. At EV West they typically mount straight to the production clutch. That's essentially what a prop governor is. This test stand will save us a lot of time if we can purchase an aircraft with a 'bolt on' solution for power generation.

Please comment below with questions, comments and suggestions...

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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0 points,1 year ago
https://www.patreon.com/dashe
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0 points,1 year ago
vahapey - They have an electric airplane on the market:
http://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-electro/overview

I wonder if the DASH community would support that...it's about 100,000 Euro and that'd be pretty easy eh?
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0 points,1 year ago
KiwiCodger - Thanks man, that's kinda what I was thinking! hit me up if you're in California or Nevada (or the next time you're there) maybe we can go up!
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1 point,1 year ago
Hang in there bro, if you get the funding, all the best. No plans on visiting the US in the near or distant future. Good luck.
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1 point,1 year ago
Well, it is nice to see that MNO's can now spot an obvious scam/joke and are not 'rubber-stamping' all proposals any more.
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-1 point,1 year ago
Not sure if this post adds to the discussion?
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0 points,1 year ago
We have this section on the forum that you can feel out the support you may likely get from a proposal https://www.dash.org/forum/topic/pre-budget-proposal-discussions.93/
Just to test the water and see if it is worth spending 5 dash on.
Have you checked out this site www.gofundme.com I think that would be a perfect platform for your project :)
Reply
0 points,1 year ago
Thanks! I didn't know about either of those. I'll check them both out.
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0 points,1 year ago
Its stuff out there on the edge that gets the media. Voted yes just because this is strange enough to work!
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3 points,1 year ago
How is this project supposed to help Dash? I'm sorry, but Dash Budget funds, in my opinion, of course - as there are no "laws" - are to be spent on the needs of Dash. Or, at the very least, crypto adoption in general.
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0 points,1 year ago
I do not think that this proposal will be successful ... but
- can you give some details about yourself
- Elon Musk stated that the current generation of batteries is to heavy for airplanes - why do you think different
- is there a basic calculation on weight, battery capacity, power consumption and expected flight time in numbers
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0 points,1 year ago
Dworf - Thanks for the post man...sure thing.

Me - I went to the Air Force Academy 2001-2005 and have been flying C-130s/MC-12s with the AF since then. I'm leaving the military in November and will have some more time for this project very soon. I'm obsessed to an unhealthy level with all things: bitcoin (moving everything over to DASH now), Tesla, and flying. When I'm not flying airplanes for work I like to fly gliders, paragliders, skydiving parachutes, kitesurfing kites(yeah...that's a wing as well). So I'm quite excited about this thing.

Elon Musk - I must respectfully disagree with you. Checkout this video from Nov 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx3auTD85Fw I'll transcript a bit here:
"To have a compelling electric aircraft you only need about 400Whrs/kg. Provided the percent of cell on the craft is high...If it's sort of at the 70% level at 400Whrs/kg you could do very decent range." So as I understand his interpretation is that you need to go BIGGER not SMALLER with the aircraft...you're not going to get 70% batteries on an aircraft that looks like an overgrown mosquito.

Furthermore, here's a video in which he's talking about Vertical Takeoff/Landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erjdYiwoYAo
...and it takes way more power (and batteries) to hover than it does to accelerate along a runway. He also talks about getting rid of the tail and using ducted gimbal electric fans...but I'm not Elon Musk, nor do I have his bank account so when I do this on a shoestring budget, the range will be limited, but it will work.

Here's some napkin math:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_310
Empty weight: 2,850 lb (1,293 kg)
Gross weight: 4,600 lb (2,087 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Continental O-470-B horizontally opposed piston engines, 240 hp (180 kW) each

So...That should leave you with 1750lbs of batteries with the current/normal configuration...which equates to roughly 125kwh of these guys:
http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=329&osCsid=nvhtb7gla1isn5rvj757id3b74
...at 42lbs and 3kwh apiece. Roughly 1.5 times an 85kwh pack from a Tesla Model S. Since this is napkin math...I figure you can drive a Model S 200 miles (3hrs) nonstop...but that doesn't account for continuous max acceleration so cut that into 1/3rd (that's what it is when I go like hell on my Zero) I'm thinking we should be shooting for about a 30-40 minute flight. VFR flight requires (normally enough fuel to go to destination PLUS 30 mins) so you'll have to go to the bathroom before you get on my electric airplane so that we can squeeze the last 10 mins of batteries on.

Charge a couple hundred bucks for the novelty of riding on an electric plane, and bring a REALLY long extension cord ; )

Everyone loves talking about batteries, here's another amazing quality US product:
https://www.valence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Valence_Module_Range_Sept-2015.pdf

Motors:
You didn't ask about the motors, but this is the next hardest piece after the weight and balance as the currently available electric motors are either extremely underpowered or weigh tons (no really...like more than one)...So for this reason I think we need to buy/build a test stand and start figuring out that piece first.
https://www.uqm.com/home/default.aspx

So hit me...where'd I miss the mark?
Reply
0 points,1 year ago
thank you -
there is another compilation of talks about it: https://youtu.be/erjdYiwoYAo

I think its possible to gear up an old Cessna with some batteries and exchange the fossil engines with electric engines.

But even if you would get the money (all 7650 DASH ~ $100,000 ) you just would have achieved to turn an old airplane into a electric propelled old airplane with reduced specifications. That showcase would be enough to go some big investor to claim 100 Mio USD to design a modern electric airplane - probably you will need more money if you go into production. And to achieve this goal you will need an unbreakable will and a very convincing personality. Then why should anyone buy an electric airplane with reduced specification (which nobody knows today).

Another point is that the marketcap of DASH today is < 100 Mio USD. That is way below of what you will need to fund your project.

Maybe you can try to make a request to TheDAO to claim some funds there.
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0 points,1 year ago
Elon's the man.

The budget was for 850X24months, and you're right...that's WAYYYYY too much for such a small community. I was overestimating how big/powerful DASH is currently...but hey, we've got 10 months for 1 DASH to be $1M...then I'll resubmit for a single DASH ; )

I'd really just like to operate it. I wouldn't want to sell the aircraft or the company. I'd rather carefully structure it as a DAO. Some kind of employee owned/operated thing...SW like.

What would be the best tool for making the ledger of this kind of organisation public?
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0 points,1 year ago
Thank you for taking time to submit this proposal. Unfortunately I must vote no. I don't believe that this proposal gives enough value for money.
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0 points,1 year ago
i think your budget proposal would have got more support if you proposed to convert a re-usable rocket to full electric, i hear Elon Musk has a few of those laying around that you can maybe buy from him and convert to full electric ?
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2 points,1 year ago
I might fund an EMdrive :)
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0 points,1 year ago
I was all in until this part, "actual purchase of the aircraft would come later.". Actually, no I wasn't. An electric plane not currently possible, along with 2 years of fixing before it can be used = bad x bad.
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0 points,1 year ago
Solarminer, maybe I misunderstood...did you mean that any electric plane is not possible?

https://www.solarimpulse.com/

http://www.airbusgroup.com/int/en/corporate-social-responsibility/airbus-e-fan-the-future-of-electric-aircraft.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_aircraft
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0 points,1 year ago
The development for those cost a little more than $11,000 USD. lol
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0 points,1 year ago
Ah - per month! lol
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-1 point,1 year ago
TanteStefana - Also, wouldn't it be helpful to have a logistical DAO up and running as a test bed?
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-1 point,1 year ago
TanteStefana - The idea was that a project outside of the space would attract more people into it, but it's probably way too early in DASH's life cycle to be able to fund this project in much the same way that Doge's projects brought a lot of people into Doge.

I've been wondering if the response would have been different if it was just an air carrier setup as a DAO? ie No electric planes, just a single 'normal' aircraft...
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0 points,1 year ago
Better yet, perhaps start with, let's say a car, perhaps a Tesla taxi run as a DAO or something? Work your way up from there or something. "Fucking Insane" can attract media I suppose, but not if it is so fucking insane it is considered literally fucking insane.
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