Proposal “DACH_MARKETINGSTRATEGY_BIZDEV_Q2_20“ (Completed)Back

Title:DACH: Marketing Strategy & Business Development Q2/20
Owner:DASH_Embassy_DACH
Monthly amount: 165 DASH (12369 USD)
Completed payments: 3 totaling in 495 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2020-04-15 / 2020-07-13 (added on 2020-04-17)
Votes: 828 Yes / 157 No / 21 Abstain

Proposal description

DACH: Marketing Strategy and Business Development Q2/20

About Dash Embassy D-A-CH

Dash Embassy D-A-CH (www.dash-embassy.org) was founded on the 23rd of Feb 2018. Our main goal is to increase the adoption of Dash by convincing FIAT-Gateways such as ATM Companies and Exchanges and companies from the payment industry, such as payment service providers (PSPs), cashier systems and payment terminals to integrate Dash. 

We are part of the Mobile Commerce Community of GS1 Germany (https://www.gs1-germany.de/gs1-solutions/mobile-commerce/). GS1 is owned by leading retail companies such as supermarkets, grocery stores and drugstores. By creating standards for payment and logistics for their stakeholders, GS1 has significant influence on the payment industry. The most known standard GS1 ever created was the EAN/GTIN Barcode that you can find on every product in the world.

In addition we are playing an active role in https://www.bitkom.org/EN. Bitkom is Germany’s digital association and represents 2,600+ companies of the digital economy (https://www.bitkom.org/EN/Bitkom/Mitgliedschaft/Mitgliederliste). Jan Heinrich Meyer (essra) was elected to be a board member of the blockchain working group of Bitkom (https://www.bitkom.org/Bitkom/Organisation/Gremien/Blockchain.html) along with IBM, DATEV and Comdirect. Because of this Dash Embassy D-A-CH is involved in creating the strategic mission of the blockchain working group of Bitkom and has access to industry leaders and research institutes of the digital economy in Germany.

In the beginning of 2019 we initiated Dash Co-Working (DCW) to share our experience in business development with other DFOs, work on common goals, share our resources and thus mitigate inefficiencies resulting from the DAOs decentralization. As part of the DCW cooperation, Sinay Demirel (@sidem), our IT- and Integrations Manager, is supporting other DFOs with the technical integrations of their acquired partners. We invite every long term DFO with a business development background to join the existing group (DACH, DCG, Next/Thailand, Nigeria). For more details regarding DCW please have a look at: https://t1p.de/ttb7

For our track record see our Dash Watch Reports: https://www.dashwatch.org/

You are more than welcome to join our channels on Discord:

Dash Nation: #dash-embassy-dach
Dash Talk: #dash-embassy


Important Notice

During the past few months we experienced that convincing payment companies, wallet providers and exchanges is becoming harder and harder. This is happening for two reasons:

  1. We convinced most of the major crypto-companies in our region to integrate Dash. This means that the number of remaining integration opportunities has decreased.
  2. The remaining companies are demanding a higher degree of awareness, partnerships in marketing and advertising or a listing fee.

This only applies to major crypto-companies. We could move on integrating Dash in smaller services, which are not demanding anything except for a twitter post, but we are convinced that integrating Dash in those, comparably less significant, businesses is not adding a lot of value to Dash, anymore.

We are not willing to pay for integrations into the major companies, as we believe that this would send the wrong signal to the industry. Much rather we would like to work on increasing the degree of awareness and create partner programs, because this would enable integrations following real market demand. We are convinced that this approach is a lot more sustainable than “pay to play” integrations, as it offers additional benefits, such as increased visibility and usage of Dash in general.

All this was part of the reasoning behind our decision to work on a comprehensive marketing strategy. You can find our full reasoning in the document and the videos linked in the next paragraph.


What will Dash get from our proposal for Q2/20?

1. Marketing Strategy

We started to work on a marketing strategy after having an initial meeting with Fernando Gutierrez (DCG), Robert Wiecko (DCG) and Mark Mason in the beginning of February 2020.As mentioned under “Important Notice” we are not able to succeed in business development with the current degree of awareness of Dash, anymore. 

The strategy paper is a living document that will change over time. It will be updated each time a new finding is made and each time the market situation changes. The document not only serves us, the Dash Embassy D-A-CH, but could also be used as a template for creating a marketing strategy for other regions by other DFOs (as mentioned on the DCW Marketing Strategy and Structure Proposal. (https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DCW_MARKETING_STRATEGY_AND_STRUCTURE)

By today (17th of April) the document contains over 70 pages. These are the chapters that we already finished:


1   Product Overview
2    Purpose

3   Market Analysis 
3.1    Payments          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEWU7I7DV3k
3.2   Remittance         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7s78HHtSBw
3.3   Cryptocurrencies      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn_p4XEBmwk
3.4   Summary & Conclusion   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YZLKrDwt10

4   Competitor Analysis
4.1   Traditional Currencies      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oj6agA_t0
4.2   Cryptocurrencies      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NodKkc5YK9c
4.3   Wallets            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTXafm98ZkE
4.4   Summary & Conclusion   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL8WjnqNodY

5   Strategy Planning      
5.1   SWOT Analysis      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqv1RVKTTf4
5.2   TOWS Analysis      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgXLwGUtwgY
5.3   Evaluation         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1_MOjWDp8c


All the videos above are unlisted and only accessible via direct links. In addition we created a playlist, that will be updated each time we finish a new chapter: 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLezjIZ7HhCwddtqqLyHbHZuvLVk5Blz2U 

We are eager to hear your feedback on what we have done so far and would be very happy if some of you would be willing to contribute to the process, by leaving a comment on one of the videos or in the document itself. You can find the document by following this link:
 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gUMKOD8FbtgQtkQh6YKJY4RlW3_zE8BGa0UWvJ2WwnI/edit?usp=sharing 

Even though we believe that it is kind of mandatory for all participants of the Dash network to take a detailed look at the whole strategy document, we can totally understand that reading through over 70 pages or watching 140 minutes of video materials about research and marketing theory might not sound very exciting for some of you. That’s why we created a short summary for each chapter.

PLEASE WATCH

Market Analysis Summary and Conclusion: https://youtu.be/0YZLKrDwt10 
Competitor Analysis Summary and Conclusion: https://youtu.be/TL8WjnqNodY 
SWOT & TOWS Evaluation: https://youtu.be/S1_MOjWDp8c 

If you don’t like to watch the summaries, conclusions and evaluations, please make sure to read them. They are all part of the document linked above.

Next steps:

6 USP
7 Target Groups
8 Goals
9 Marketing Measures

We are aiming to finish chapter 6, 7, 8 and 9 by the middle of May 2020. After that we would like to implement the strategy by following the priorities that will be defined in chapter 8. To be able to do so we will submit an additional proposal asking for a marketing budget.


2. Business Development

We continue to maintain all our existing business contacts to be able to execute our business development strategy which remains to be focused on fiat gateways, wallets and crypto-banking and companies from the payment industry such as crypto PSPs (payment service provider) and traditional PSPs as soon as we reached the goals mentioned in “1. Marketing Strategy”. Following our strategy document above, financial products based on crypto, such as funds, ETNs, certificates etc. might also become part of our business development strategy in the future.

Important: it is unlikely that we will be able to deliver integrations during the upcoming months, but of course we won’t leave any opportunity untapped. 


3. Integrations

To keep you updated about all our integration projects we are using the kanban software trello. To get detailed information about the status of all integration projects, please take a look at our integration pipeline:
Integration Pipeline: https://trello.com/b/cmCxf1JZ/dach-integrations

In addition to our own integration projects Sinay Demirel (@sidem) is supporting other DFOs (Co-Working members) with the technical integration and assistance of their acquired partners.


4. Team

Jan Heinrich Meyer (@essra) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-heinrich-meyer-a5a6bb108/
Sinay Demirel (@sidem) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sinaydemirel/
Klaus Hipfinger (@simontheravager) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/klaus-hipfinger-510390150/


5. Financials

Due to the restrictions caused by Coronavirus we are not able to have any physical meetings or to attend any conferences at the moment. While this harms our business development activities it also allows us to cut our travel expenses and by this our total ask in Euro.


Budget requested for Q1/2020:

381 Dash/month (estimated avg. Dash Price of $ 45.98) = $ 17,518 or € 15,818 (January 2020)
259 Dash/month (estimated avg. Dash Price of $ 87.21) = $ 45,174 or € 41,019 (February and March 2020)

We received a total of € 78,834k in Q1.


Budget request Q2/2020:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zYYjDgmQWc7ixiAVK4GmOoeDe61403Ccyr_vx8GWje3_RXLdAbV8PGoKNv8JcqaDx4ipzzZw77Rl6RceM7N_U6PCTikp8HX7OT_vlh4IxolZLux1oaF-2pHoznOlbm1zRL2h5Q-


We use the 90 days SMA on the 13th of April 2020 with an average Dash Price of $91,05: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/price-dash-sma90.html#6m. We request the total amount with a volatility buffer of 10% for the quarter because of the risk of possible price declines.

DACH Business Development - Public Budget Planning and Accounting 2020:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vzp2_9f1Hm9UNvqSahstl_6RXkwk1gNthDChhsqeWy8/edit#gid=1772385164

Corporate Wallet Address:
https://insight.dash.org/insight/address/XuMeunJDZrAusw45B4oreuH8RcKUY2fkMN


We hope for your vote, support and contribution and will be happy to answer all of your questions in the comment section.

The Dash Embassy D-A-CH Team

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

Submit comment
 
2 points,5 months ago
@ DASH_Embassy_DACH I have read your entire marketing plan and analysis and provided comments throughout your document right until the end.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vzp2_9f1Hm9UNvqSahstl_6RXkwk1gNthDChhsqeWy8/edit#gid=1772385164

It took me many hours to review your document. I would appreciate it if you could ensure to read the comments I posted by clicking the more information on the comments boxes because only a short summary is visible for most of the comments.

You have done a lot of work on this marketing analysis and I felt it deserved a in-depth study which I gave it.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Hello DeepBlue,

thank you for your contribution, it's much appreciated. This is exactly what we hoped would happen. Maybe some of your fellow MNOs will take the time and contribute, too? I know that it's a lot of work to do so, but we believe that steps like these are neccessary to ensure the long term success of Dash, especially due to the upcoming releases.

We will start a detailed review of your comments on monday.

Thank you again,

Jan
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
*Correction: here is the URL to the DACH marketing document that I commented on:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gUMKOD8FbtgQtkQh6YKJY4RlW3_zE8BGa0UWvJ2WwnI/edit
Reply
-1 point,6 months ago
Debate: Germany is not an economy that is looking to switch to a new currency product. Hence, the DAO strategy of investing so much into Germany could be quite wasteful
Reply
2 points,6 months ago
Dear DeepBlue,

1. I understand your concerns but I cannot agree with them. Initiatives are needed NOT ONLY where Dash is used.

2. Coca cola didn't become the global brand by investing only in the places where it was known already. Being stingy seldom pays off. Dash needs our support everywhere – in Europe, too.

3. Moreover, your argument that DASH offers no advantages over Euro seems flawed. I can say the same thing about USD and Venezuela.

4. Economically challenged countries are important but our community needs people who can act in the EU, as well. People who will be able to address the obstacles posed by the AMLD5.

5. In the view of what Kot says, I am sure the DACH guys have the potential to work on tackling this problem.
Reply
1 point,6 months ago
3. USD offers a huge advantage over the Bolivar (bolivar loses a significant amount of purchasing power each week, USD does not)
Reply
0 points,6 months ago
Dear @PrzemyslawK Let me address your points:

You: 1. I understand your concerns but I cannot agree with them. Initiatives are needed NOT ONLY where Dash is used.

Response: We should invest primarily where there is the most need. This proposal is requesting 12k in a country were there is no need for DASH because there is a stable currency. Venezuela does not have its own inherent stable currency. In addition there are specific laws legalising the use of DASH as a payment method in Venezuela unlike in EU where the law is either unclear or against crytpo. Finally the government in Venezuela is pro actively encouraging people to use crypto - unlike governments in EU. If we can't get DASH working in Venezuela what chance have we got in countries in which there is a stable currency, with governments either against crypto or unclear about it with no real need being fulfilled?

You: 2. Coca cola didn't become the global brand by investing only in the places where it was known already. Being stingy seldom pays off. Dash needs our support everywhere – in Europe, too.

Response: Correct. Coca Cola addressed markets that could actually consume Coca Cola. However the difference with crypto is there is no real need or desire for crypto in Europe or the USA except for speculative investors. If, however we make DASH better than Euro e.g. by creating a twin coin that is more stable than Euro and USD then we may have a chance. Right now we do not have this.

3. Moreover, your argument that DASH offers no advantages over Euro seems flawed. I can say the same thing about USD and Venezuela.

Response: You say my argument seems "flawed" in what way is it flawed? are you referring to USD in Venezuela? If so that is not correct. Firstly USD in Venezuela is not currently widely available especially in smaller towns and districts. Secondly there is no change available in USD obliging people to have to buy more than they need to get up to the value of the notes they have. 3. There is counterfeiting of USD which leads people again to be concerned about notes being genuine. Therefore there is still a need for a alternative currency in Venezuela - even if USD is being used.

You: 4. Economically challenged countries are important but our community needs people who can act in the EU, as well. People who will be able to address the obstacles posed by the AMLD5.

Response: Perhaps we do need people in the EU and USA etc, but should we be giving considerably more money to projects in those markets when projects that are leading to real world adoption are struggling to get enough funds? Dash Mall And Parking cannot even afford to buy a batch of POS systems and a few thousands DASH cards when customers are asking them for these.

We have choices all the time to make. Sometimes they are not easy choices. We cannot do everything.

Focus is desperately missing from the DASH project. What I'm saying is we need to focus primarily on our key markets first.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Hello DeepBlue,

I won’t argue with you about your values and your strategy for Dash as it’s obvious that we will not come to an agreement here. But I need to correct you if you are making incorrect statements, which is the case in your response to “1.”

You are saying “unlike in EU where the law is either unclear or against crytpo”. This is not the case. In fact I’d rather call regulations in the DACH region crypto friendly. For further details on this please take a look at my response to your comment below.

Thank you for your time,

Jan
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
@Dash_Embassy, my comments are correct. Let us refer specifically to the reference you gave in the reply below. You gave this reference:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/business_economy_euro/banking_and_finance/documents/2019-crypto-assets-consultation-document_en.pdf

I copy and paste exactly the text from the above reference in Section 3 below


III. Crypto-assets that are not currently covered by EU legislation
This section aims to seek views from stakeholders on the opportunities and challenges
raised by crypto-assets that currently fall outside the scope of EU financial services
legislation21 (A.) and on the risks presented by some service providers related to cryptoassets and the best way to mitigate them (B.). This section also raises horizontal questions
concerning market integrity, Anti-Money laundering (AML) and Combatting the Financing of
Terrorism (CFT), consumer/investor protection and the supervision and oversight of the
crypto-asset sector (C.).


It clearly states that crypto-assets are "not currently covered by EU legislation" That means there is uncertainty because there is no clear legislation on crypt. Therefore I stand behind what I said.

Let us compare this against what is mandated by a legal decree in Venezuela for the use of crypto. Venezuela's legal system has specifically stated that crypto is legal for purchases. In addition the government has specifically encouraged people to use cryptocurrency.

https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuela-approves-decree-use-cryptocurrencies/

https://thecurrencyanalytics.com/3511/venezuelan-supreme-tribunal-orders-constituent-decree-on-cryptoassets/

Can you show me specifically a decree in Germany or the EU that is explicitly clear about accepting crypto assets as I have displayed above for Venezuela? You stated you class Germany as "kind of crypto friendly" That is not the same as fully legalising it and encouraging people to use it as they have done in Venezuela.

You gave a reference to a long PDF document in German. Can you copy and paste out the specific relevant paragraph that backs up your claims to Germany being fully legal and actively promoting cryptocurrency as it is in Venezuela?

Can you shown me a presentation by an EU leader that is actively encouraging people to use crypto?

I stated it is still unclear what the situation is with crypto in Europe and in particular DASH that is currently classified as a anonymous coin by the reference I presented previously. The EU has specifically stated that anonymous coins are a problem area.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/150761/TAX3%20Study%20on%20cryptocurrencies%20and%20blockchain.pdf

The EU has also closed down a number of mixers. Bear in mind Dash has its own built in mixer in the core wallet:

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/9800-european-authorities-shut-down-cryptocurrency-mixing-service

Venezuela is not making an issue about DASH with its private send.

WHY DASH DROPPED IN MARKET CAP FROM 5 to 20th?
In terms of why the DASH price has dropped so significantly compare to other coins such as litecoin. It is blatantly obvious . We don't need an investigation why. The main factors to DASH's significant drop in marketcap are:

1. Consistent failure to deliver Evolution. The price of DASH was hyped by the expectation it would be released in August 2017. It is now 2020 - still no Evolution.

2. DCG management continually lack of transparency in answering questions regarding Evolution in their funding proposals. Down right silence most of the time to my questions. Now of course, they are answering questions now Evolution is in Testnet, but they were not during 2018 when I was asking the tough questions. No other MNOs where asking these questions. I was on my own trying to get answers. Trying to get transparency which is what DASH is supposed to be about.

3. Evan Duffield, lead developed left the DASH project. He moved to HK - however I haven't seen anything coming out of that move. We have very little from Evan since. I don't even know if he still in HK. Evan was devoted and passionate to the DASH project - no the founder of the project is a ghost.

4. Amanda B. Johnson left around the same time as Evan Duffield. Many people were following the Dash Detailed programs and had confidence in the project due to those educational programs. However Amanda leaving around the same time as Evan led to questions and doubts about the project. Whether Amanda agrees or not she had a major influence in building confidence in the project with her shows. Her leaving at a critical moment caused doubt on the project. From memory I remember Amanda herself had stated that first stage of Evolution was due out in August 2017 in her shows.

5. Dash is classified as a Anonymous coin by Asia and EU causing it to be dropped by major exchanges and investors. Businesses also do not want to invest in building on a coin that is not perceived by governments to be compliant.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Hello DeepBlue,

In regards to regulation:

1. “unlike in EU where the law is either unclear or against crypto”

this isn’t the case for e.g. Germany: https://www.bafin.de/EN/Aufsicht/BankenFinanzdienstleister/Zulassung/Kryptoverwahrgeschaeft/kryptoverwahrgeschaeft_node_en.html

-> Germany is not against crypto.


2. “I stated it is still unclear what the situation is with crypto in Europe and in particular DASH that is currently classified as a anonymous coin by the reference I presented previously.''

This is why we are part of bitkom and why we are working on positioning papers and taking part in EU consultations and why we are in contact with law firms to receive legal opinions on Dash and PrivateSend. This is done for Switzerland already.

-> We are actively trying to solve the misconceptions about Dash’s privacy in regards to EU regulators.


In regards to the price:

1. “DASH price has dropped so significantly compared to other coins such as litecoin (…) The main factors to DASH's significant drop in market cap are: 1. Consistent failure to deliver Evolution.”

Litecoin has no evolution but is still in the top 10. Maybe we should have done better communication on features like ChainLocks, the Trust and the DIF. (take a look at our SWOT & TOWS)

-> A marketing strategy for Dash was needed in the past.


2. “DCG management continually lack of transparency in answering questions regarding Evolution in their funding proposals. Down right silence most of the time to my questions. Now of course, they are answering questions now Evolution is in Testnet (...)”

We should take advantage of that and amplify the effects of this development (take a look at our SWOT & TOWS)

-> A marketing strategy is needed now more than ever.


3. “Evan Duffield, lead developed left the DASH project. He moved to HK (...) no the founder of the project is a ghost.”

This makes me feel that we need a leading figure or maybe even better: several of them all across the globe (take a look at our competitor analysis)

-> Leading personalities in media and a marketing strategy are needed.


4. “Amanda B. Johnson left around the same time as Evan Duffield. Many people were following the Dash Detailed programs and had confidence in the project due to those educational programs. However Amanda leaving around the same time as Evan led to questions and doubts about the project.”

This one is similar to the one about Evan and again shows the need for leading figures. We should solve this (take a look at our competitor analysis)

-> Leading personalities in media and a marketing strategy are needed.


5. “Dash is classified as a Anonymous coin by Asia and EU causing it to be dropped by major exchanges and investors. Businesses also do not want to invest in building on a coin that is not perceived by governments to be compliant.”

As stated in the first chapter of this comment we are working on this. Except for Asia, because we are not operating on that market, but the team of Dash Next will take advantage of the documents we are creating. As a side note: Neptune Dash is doing quite well on German stock exchanges: https://youtu.be/UcREArdBnVU

-> We are already trying to solve the misconceptions about Dash’s privacy. A marketing strategy to educate the public about the product would help.

DeepBlue, by reading through your comments all across DashCentral I’m getting the feeling that you are having a very clear vision of what should be done to ensure Dash’s success. Maybe you should consider submitting your own proposal to take your vision from paper to reality. Maybe you should also consider becoming a trust protector to make DCG more accountable, if you think that this is needed. Last but not least there are upcoming elections for DIF supervisors. Another opportunity to take influence and make your vision part of the DAO by contributing in an active way.

Best regards,

Jan
Reply
-2 points,5 months ago
Hello Jan, let me address your point on litecoin not having Evolution and they have not fallen in price like DASH.

Please read carefully what I wrote:

1. Consistent *failure* to deliver Evolution.

The word *failure* is the key point here. Prominmant DASH including Amanda B. Johson had stated that Evolution first release would be expected in August 2017. This was presumably going off information provided by members of the core team. However I do not recal Amanda ever quoting specifically the source o that information. It is the *failure* in delivery of Evolution that is the important factor here. DASH did not deliver what it said it would at the time we said we would. The price hyped up in expectation of this "revolutionary new user experience" and it was not delivered. Litecoin did not promise anything and therefore they did not let anyone down. It is the "letting down" that undermines trust and since this was a huge development it was a major let down.

Saying a major innovation is about to be released and then not releasing it is going to cause major loss of trust in the project. I know it did for me personally. Think about it Jan, did it not also for you?

Consistent non delivery for over 2 years of Evolution only built on that mistrust further.

Jan, we are talking about people's money. People need to feel confident in the project to keep their money in the project. Trust comes from delivering what we say we will deliver, when we say we will deliver it. If we don't do this it severely undermines trust in the DASH project.

DASH pumped artificially at least partly due to a grossely inaccurate release date for technology that was supposed to revolutionize crypto. Whether this was "fake news", an attempt at an artificial price pump, an exit strategy to cash in on the price pump, or simply gross incompetance on the part of DCG management I guess we will never actually know. What I do know is that incorrect information of such important is broadcast it is imperrative that the DCG management correct that information - but that never happened as far as I am aware.

We have however paid the price for not giving accurate and trustworthy information to our users. This is a lesson that needs to be learned. We have to be extremly mindful of what is said and to make sure the information source is reliable before anything is stated. That information source should be clearly quoted so that responsibility for inaccurate reporting of information will be known. Again, transparency was missing and led to misinformation being spread. Whenever this happens there is always a harsh price to pay with loss of trust and therefore Dash price drop.

This was only one of the factors but most certainly was a major factor. I know, because I felt the loss of trust myself and that is why I was questioning DCG in their proposals in 2018.

In addition DCG had our code closed source which only further built on the mistrust. They would not release it. We are an open source project. Closed source = lack of trust. The reason given was to give DASH a head start in the market. That reason does not quite add up. I think what is more likely is that there was a major issue on the coding or managment of the code development and they decided that making it closed source would keep this out of the public eye.

The fact is we still have not delivered a released version of Evolution on mainnet so how is this giving us an advantage in the market? There is no advantage I can see. By keeping our project closed source for such a long time however we lost reputation and trust once again.

Everything counts Jan. Each little trust destroyer, one by one erodes the confidence in the project. The points I have raised here are the points that damaged my trust in the DASH project. And if they damaged my confidence I am certain they damaged the confidence of others. Why have I stuck with DASH through all this?

1. We have devs that are clearly brilliant. The DASH tech is the best there is. I've tried other cryptos and non come even close to DASH.

2. I feel DASH really can make a difference in countries like Venezuela. People suffering terrible hardship due to a collapsed currency -DASH can go a long way to solving that.

The above two reasons where the primary reason I stuck with DASH. However after I learned about exchanges dropping DASH I did sell 20% of my DASH holdings. I did this due to all the factors I've mentioned. The final straw for me was Dash being labelled an anonymous coin by governement, EU, and Asia causing exchanges to drop DASH. In addition if businesses feel that DASH posses a risk with governements in terms of traceablility of funds then they too would not want to develop on DASH. Why invest a lot of money in a coin that is superior but is perceived as being an anonymous coin.

Ask yourself did these issues I raise undermine your own trust Jan? Be honest. Did they?

If Dash wants to increase its price it needs to increase trust. This can be achieved through radical in transparency and designing DASH to be uncruptable both now and in the future by building policies and working practises that we must stick to. We decide them, we discuss them, we vote them and we write them down and make those policies that protect DASH. These policies would also help MNOs make decisions in a more ordered way because at the moment these values, policies and working practises are not clearly defined.

I notice from the DCG call there was no mention of what I believe the most important values of DASH which I feel are:

1. Non corruptible (both now and for the future),
2. Radical transparency (in code and investment),
3. Decentralisation (not possible to exploit Dash by minority group of individuals),
4. Trustlessness (quality decisions can be made without the need to trust any one individual or group.
5. Efficiency (speed of transactions, efficiency in management of code development, efficiency in business decisions)


The only value I saw on the DCG call was:
Payment solution - make tech usable by anyone.

I think one of the greatest selling points for DASH is the core value of making DASH uncurruptable both now and the future. We can do this by ensuring any decision we make ensures we encorporate that value. I believe in this value very strongly. This is why I've been asking the tough questions of DCG, to try and gain more transparency. More transparency = more trust. More trust = more investors and users. We should have this value spelled out in our marketing literature, in our training videos, in our proposals. This is what the people want. They want a money that is non corruptable and stable, easy to use, secure and fast.

Uncurrptablilty thinking needs to be integrated into every decisions that everyone makes in DASH. Then users and customers will know what we stand for.

There are of course other concerns of DASH and each one undermines trust. e.g. Is DASH scaleable? Is DASH's value dedicated to working within the current legal framework? All of these are questionmarks at the moment.

I've looked at your proposal and the amount of work you've done.

If say that the DACH will work to get the EU to change its incorrect categorization of DASH as an annonymous coin and get us listed a psydonomous like bitcoin then I would consider vote for your proposal. I would also like to know what specific steps you intend to take to achived this with a specific laid out timeline.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Before I get into the main commentary, I want to say that Dash is and has remained #9 by proof of work, non-mineable coins:

https://coinmarketcap.com/coins/views/filter-non-mineable/

The "loss" in rank has a lot more to do with scam projects that are designed to muddy the waters and hide the real cryptocurrencies that have a chance of providing financial freedom like Dash do. Our rank in marketcap has not really fallen. Most of the coins above us are TOKENS with unfairly and arbitrarily printed "super-supplies" that give them an unduly large appearance to coins with a fair distribution mechanism.

Therefore, getting worried about a loss of position relative to these coins makes about the same sense as complaining that USD is far more adopted than cryptocurrencies still...I.e. its NONSENSICAL! Of course they are, we're still starting out. So too must you remove all the scam tokens with deliberately inflated supplies designed to make them look bigger than other coins. Not taking this into account makes your assessment naive.

Furthermore, I think evolution not releasing is a red-herring. Every coin that is worth something is still developing their MVP. BTC is not scalable as it is, nor is BCH, XMR or LTC. Maidsafe was supposed to release in 2015 yet here we are 5 years later and they're just now finalizing their MVP for release. Its the same with SiaCoin (though they've finally released 1.0 I believe).

In summary, any coin that is worth anything is still working on delivering its main product. Assuming that the "price decline" is due to a lack of release of Evolution ASSUMES that the market would've positively responded to evolutions release with a price rise, and that assumption is not substantiated. In fact, it is shown to be naive as the market in the west has consistently ignored and maligned us.

There was "nobody let down" by evolution's delay, imo. That's just a scapegoat that people who are hurt by the market's rejection of Dash's superiority and advanced features are using in order to avoid dealing with the reality that the market is full of people who just don't want to see Dash do better than them. Unfortunately, those in our community seem to be unaware or unable to view this as a possibility, so instead of placing blame for the price decline where it belongs, they INTERNALIZE the blame as you're doing here. You look for something, anything that core or the Dash Network has done to be the culprit, like the delay in Evolution's release.

But again, you're assuming that the same market that has lied about our innovations while knowing that these things were lies, would automatically change their stripes and stop doing that on release of Evolution. Even your argument about LTC assumes there is no bias towards litecoin from censorship of main cryptocommunication channels like r/cc, r/bitcoin, etc.

Litecoin was on Coinbase for YEARS despite being an utter piece of shit. Dash has always been better, but do you blame LTC getting on Coinbase before us on "Evolution"? That would be absurd. Clearly there are severe speculative market forces that do not see it in their best interests to value the best cryptocurrency at this time. Your explanation for our price decline and loss of rank assumes that the market is rational. And as I mentioned earlier, its not even real because Dash is STILL #9 by POW mineable coins.

This is imo very naive because it assumes that the only reasons for failure are internal. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of internal reasons for failure, and DCG and the Dash network have already failed and made mistakes, but these are not THE ONLY reasons. We could ALSO fail to see price increase for EXTERNAL REASONS as well, and your comments never seem to address this possibilty as far as I've seen.

Price suppression of Dash is very real. Indeed I've documented it convincingly several times over the years. The monero community has basically admitted to suppressing our price across exchanges. They've never actually denied the charge itself. I know,I know, this is "just a wacky conspiracy" theory. But the whole point of maligning conspiracy theorists andtheories is TO RIDICULE PEOPLE WHO DON'T THINK CONVENTIONALLY and who might expose certain TRUE CONSPIRACIES.

Those who shout "conspiracy theorist!!" never deal with the reality that rich, powerful people almost ALWAYS collude and conspire together against their economic and other competition. Therefore, yelling "conspiracy theorist" is not a way to "identify crazy, kooky people"; rather, its a way for people engaged in conspiracies to deflect and shut down those who start to question why they are colluding with others! So being that that is an easily observable fact, it is, again, naive imo to completely discount it and assume that the falling in the ranks and price is OUR FAULT exclusively. if you really need proof that this is really how it works, notice how rich people almost never go to jail for crimes "normies" spend years locked away for.

So we know that rich ppl collude together in order to give themselves the best outcomes, while not providing the same legal, economic and political get-out-of-jail-free cards to the "little guy". Whether it be legal loopholes, taxes, or other special treatment, its CLEAR that moneyed-interests have a vested interest in conspiring together, manipulating financial and securities laws for their benefit, golden parachutes and the like. In fact, if you DON'T think that they conspire and collude together, you're MOST LIKELY BEHIND THE CURVE.

You're already putting yourself behind them and everyone else smarter than you because YOU REFUSE TO CONSIDER their actual behavior. Which means they can make moves while you're unaware about it because you refuse to believe its a possibility. Bam! Just like that, your ego is preventing you from admitting you're having your blood sucked by a cordial but aggressive LEECH. So anyone who claims you're just "a crazy conspiracy theorist" is more likely trying to hide some valuable truth that they don't want others to know. Like the fact that Dash is so innovative and good that other coins become so jealous and incensed that they feel it neccessary to attack us online for no reason, and yes to rig our price downwards.

I wrote a thread on price suppression and manipulation by the monero community here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pivx/comments/d0208s/the_monero_community_is_cynically_and/

Not in that thread, but one of the proofs that I use to show that monero and Dash's marketcap's are far too in-sync to be chance or coincidence, which you can see here:

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/marketcap-dash-xmr.html

Notice that despite monero having 2x the issue supply as Dash (marketcap = price x supply), Dash and monero have roughly the same market cap since 2017 when Dash overtook monero and exploded higher. The monero community was VISIBLY UPSET AND LIVID OVER THIS. I was lurking their subreddits all through 2017 and they were cursing and screaming up a storm.

It was so bad, discussion about Dash and "alt-coins" (it was just Dash) was restricted and prevented from Monero subs. The monero community routinely uses Dash's "inferior marketcap" as a way to attack us and claim that we're inferior. Of course, they're most likely GAMING that metric, and its telling that that is the ONLY metric of adoption that is in Monero's favor. In fact, here's lead core dev and maintainer fluffypony maligning Dash's treasury (and their inferior position relative to us) using a NONSENSICAL EGO ARGUMENT:

"Riccardo Spagni

認証済みアカウント

@fluffypony
1 時間
その他
We can’t compete with Dash’s marketing budget, yes. But, according to our relative market caps, turns out we don’t have to.
https://twitter.com/fluffypony/status/1038827961842106369"

You see that? First of all, that doesn't make any sense. Why would a higher "marketcap" indicate that Monero doesn't have to compete with our budget? Our budget puts out roughly ~$500,000 USD, how can a fixed, mostly imaginary number like market cap mean you don't have to compete with our budget? He wasn't just bragging, he was letting you in on a little secret: the reason they don't have to compete with our budget is because THEY CONTROL THE PRICE SO THEY CAN ARTIFICIALLY "GROW" AS MUCH AS THEY WANT TO ALWAYS KEEP AHEAD OF US USING MANIPULATION!

The point of all this is, that you have not PROVEN that it is the delay in Evolution that is the cause in the price decline. There was no "hype" and "letdown" as you say. You're also very wrong about LTC. LTC had WAAAAY MORE HYPE THAN DASH! So did Monero! Back then (circa 2017-2018) the LTC community was very smug in relation to ours because they thought that they were getting two payment processors/Point of sale systems whose names escape me (I think one was LitePay), but BOTH turned out to be HUGE scams.

I'm pretty sure at least one of them was directly shilled by Charlie Lee himself and their community was absolutely LIVID when the reality set in. Dash isn't a scam and Evolution is only delayed, but you want everyone to believe that our price declined because of our delay, while LTC's price DIDN'T *DESPITE* THEIR OWN? I don't think you've thought this through enough, your logical position, and the reason you proffer for our decline is NOT LIKELY TO BE CORRECT.

LTC was also supposed to get Segwit first (and they did), LTC was added to Coinbase (so, success here), and they were supposed to get privacy and mimblewimble years ago (no developlment). These were lots of hype events that surrounded LTC and only two of them turned out good. The rest (at least 3 out of 5) were negative events that basically confirmed LTC's status as a dead coin. Yet no response from the market? Again, your assumption CANNOT BE CORRECT in light of these facts.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
PART II:


So I think your argument is actually based on a form of "stockholm syndrome". People who experience stockholm syndrome have been ABUSED by someone without recourse to protect their egos. So they DISCARD THEIR EGOS COMPLETELY in an attempt to get the abuse to stop. This is the reaction the Monero and LTC communities wished and still do wish to evoke from us, because THEY CAN'T COMPETE WITH US OTHERWISE.

Monero was also extremely hyped as well and has yet to deliver, despite this their price has not suffered like ours had. This is something that would have to happen if your theory on our price decline were correct. Kovri and Sekreta were both anonymization networks that were supposed to be developed and added onto the monero chain. Since Monero is EXTREMELY WEAK to sidechannel attacks that link IP addresses with transactions) these two failures are actually really bad but nobody talks about it, including you in your reasons for why projects are falling/not falling in price. But if this were truly the reason why Dash is so low in price, then Monero would be also because Dash just had Evolution that was coming and is delayed.

But Monero had again, Kovri, Sekreta, also Kastelo (a monero exclusive hardware wallet) that completely FAILED. Not delayed, Kovri is dead, Sekreta is basically dead and Kastelo is also DEAD. They were also supposed to be on ledgerlive but that can't work, they were supposed to get a base pair on BISQ and then BISQ said they didn't want monero as a basepair (because of architectural changes), Dream network delisted Monero as well as exchanges in Asia. Yet Monero still always maintains the same moving average in price above us. In summary, if you're going to contend that the delay in Evolution is the reason for the price decline, you have to explain why:

1) Coins that have promised way more than us and delivered WAY LESS like Litecoin, BCH and Monero are all STILL larger than us and haven't seen the same sort of aggressive selling that Dash has since peak. Instead of your explanation, which I'm sure you must admit lacks substantiation, this is rather indicative of a coordinated selling campaign. Before you claim this is a "crazy conspiracy theory", remember that competitors do this stuff in business all the time. Tesla has been aggressively short-sold FOR YEARS by their detractors and competitors. It would be extremely naive to give the monero community "the benefit of the doubt" when they clearly don't deserve it and have long since lost that privilege.

2) Why is it that Dash and Monero's marketcaps are constantly in lock step with each other, even though nobody uses monero and thousands of people use Dash? Monero doesn't have governance, decentralized funding, privacy that works (there are at least 6-7 privacy ending bugs, I won't post the list here, go to reddit if you want to see it), and you have to wait 20 mins after EVERY transaction to use your funds again. Does that sound like a coin that is worth more than our instant transaction, strong privacy governance friend Dash? If it doesn't, you have to explain why IT IS. Hint: it is NOT because evolution is delayed.

Thanks for reading.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
@therealDashman21 I have no problem adding the fact there was misinformation by other coins to the list and that may well have affected non- DASH investors i.e. people that had not yet invested in DASH but might have wanted to invest. I don't think it affected actual investors of DASH however. I know for a fact the misinformation did not affect my trust in DASH in the slightest. Your idea of Stockhold syndrome is funny - you're a funny guy.

I stand by what I said. Let me spell it out. I didn't give a rat's ass about trolls and misinformers said about DASH. Being a dash investor I knew for a fact what they said was bullshit because I'm a DASH coin holder. I know what DASH is about.

Let me be clear. This is not me sympathising with Monero or litecoin or whoever was dishing out misinformation about us. The factors I mentioned however absolutely did affect my option and trust in DASH. I'm not looking for scapegoats. I'm saying it as it is.

So let me ask you. Are you saying that the issues I raised had absolutely zero reduction in your trust in the DASH project? So you're saying you're OK with us saying Evolution will be delivered by August 2017 and then not delivering for more than 2 years - this didn't affect your confidence in the slightest. Your totally OK for us to promise one thing and then not deliver?

You're also OK with DASH being closed source for over a year?

Your also OK with DCG not answering questions in their proposals about these issues?

These things did not in the slightest affect your trust in DASH?

You had 100% absolute confidence and trust with no question, no doubt in your mind. It was all down to the misinformation from other coins? OK if that is your opinion OK.

One other point. I would appreciate it if your theories about peoples psychological state to yourself. Not only is it bullshit it has no place in a discussion. Just stick to the facts about the issue. Your point on misinformation was a useful contribution. Lets keep the psychology of people's ego and motivations out of it shall we.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
What do you find incorrect about my description of stockholm syndrome? You may not have it, but anyone who neglects to consider outside influences as a culprit for our decline in rank would definitely have to have it. Why? *Because it is irrational to attack yourself when you've done nothing wrong*. The only people who do that, are those who are using that behavior as a way to get abusive behavior to stop. I.e. abusive behavior like fluffypony, the lead developer of Monero lying for years since 2014 about Dash, calling it a scam.

That may not have affected you, but I tell you what, I'm a smart guy as I'm sure many can tell **and it affected me**. I lost out on Dash for about a year and a half thanks to LIES AND FUD from Monero. That cost me a great deal because it was right at the time when Dash was cheapest. I would've been able to invest much more had I not been tricked and naively fallen for their lies. You may be smarter than me, but the average person isn't. And the 50% of people less intelligent than the average person definitely aren't either. Which means its LIKELY THAT THEY WILL FALL FOR THOSE LIES TOO.

The point about malicious lies and fud wasn't that it would affect die-hard believers such as your and my current selves. But that it would affect MARKET SENTIMENT and PROVIDE DEFLECTIVE, ARGUMENTATIVE COVER for the Monero community's aggressive short selling of our coin. That wouldn't be affected at all by the fact that you, and die-hard Dash supporters like you, can see through the Monero community's lies. Most other people who don't/didn't have a history of supporting Dash CANNOT. THAT WAS THE POINT.

Most investors are "casual" and do not do a deep-dive, for better or worse this is the current market. Which means that SUPERFICIAL LIES HAVE MORE POWER WITH THEM THAN BORING BUT HONEST TRUTHS. So you not giving a rat's ass about trolls IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. You're not going to sell, YES WE KNOW THAT. YOU NEVER WERE. BUT YOU'RE NOT THE ONE HURTING THE PRICE SO THIS ARGUMENT DOESN'T ADDRESS MY CONCERN AT ALL.

"So let me ask you. Are you saying that the issues I raised had absolutely zero reduction in your trust in the DASH project?"

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. After the monero Fud affected me I learned to do my own research. When you do your own research on those items, they are not serious. I'll explain below:

"So you're saying you're OK with us saying Evolution will be delivered by August 2017 and then not delivering for more than 2 years "

Yes.

"this didn't affect your confidence in the slightest. "

No, it did not.

"Your totally OK for us to promise one thing and then not deliver?"

Yes, I am perfectly fine with the current and historical Evolution release schedule.

So as not to appear hypocritical or flippant, allow me to explain my, what must be to you, nonsensical answers. I'm coming from a different position than most people. I am a Software Engineer and Developer by profession, trade and training, you could even call me a "Computer Scientist" B.Sc. Which means if there's ONE THING THAT I KNOW, its software delays. Trust me when I tell you there was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING out of the ordinary in Dash's Evolution release schedule. By traditional software development metrics WE'RE ACTUALLY WAY AHEAD OF SCHEDULE.

Delays in software are like toenails, everyone's got them and usually more than one. What's more, Dash Evolution's original timeline was amorphous and the functionality was much more restricted in scope than the full current DashPlatform implementation. This expansion of scope caused a delay in delivery. To a layperson, this may be cause for concern. But to a developer, not only is it a standard, every day occurence, but its actually a GOOD thing. Refactoring software is often needed in order to expand base capabilities and functionalities.

If you do not do so, you either cannot support the functionality (think how BCH can never really replicate InstantSend or PrivateSend with their current network architecture, they just can't do it), OR you CAN support the functionality, but its a shell of its full-potential due to the necessary design tradeoffs your intially naive implementation limits you to (Think CashShuffle vs PrivateSend. PrivateSend is leagues better, faster and more decentralized because of the MN network. Cashshuffle can never compete with this).

Which means, that when DEVELOPERS DO SEE A CHANCE TO REFACTOR, IT USUALLY MEANS EXPANSION AND GROWTH ARE COMING. These are good things for software projects because they increase their usefulness, and thus their usecase to their customer/client. Think DAPI, data contracts, etc. So for that reason, I've never felt a single twinge of anxiety as the Dash Evolution release dates slipped.

I'm intimately familiar with this in my own professional life, and in OTHER COINS AS WELL. PIVX has completely shut off their privacy for a year now due to bugs! Maidsafe was supposed to release in 2015...MAIDSAFE IS OLDER THAN BITCOIN BY 3 YEARS! Ok? This is standard procedure. Great software is not build in a day and doesn't respond well to timelines. Unfortunately, we just have to learn to deal with this. Its ready WHEN ITS READY, not a second sooner.

"You're also OK with DASH being closed source for over a year? "

Yes. Open Source principles only apply to released software in my book. I don't care that you develop in private repos, especially to prevent competitors from developing similar products. Perhaps this is also my developer's instincts kicking in? You wouldn't want others to be able to take advantage of your work prematurely before its finished would you? I think this was the most prudent move and shows DCG's wisdom and software Gravitas. Again, I'm likely biased from being a developer, however, so this may not sway you.

"Your also OK with DCG not answering questions in their proposals about these issues? "

Yep. DCG's role is almost friendly-adversarial with the MNOs. Like Democrats and republicans. Although this example breaks down because MNOs are above DCG, we should still have a sort of semi-adversarial relationship IMO. Where DCG tries a bit to push the boundaries on their freedoms. Not too much, but we don't want our Core team of experts neutered by a tragedy of the common man in the MNOs. Its not just about average intelligence either, because MNOs are some of the smartest coin holders in cryptocurrency imo. I view the holders of monero in contempt in contrast, for being too dull to see that their coin is a failure. Just so you know how I'm gauging this.

But one man is intelligent, while a crowd of men is insane. So we need DCG to "have some backbone" to be able to push back against MNOs when we've lost our damn minds, which, if we're around long enough, is going to happen. They not answering questions like that is kind of a part of that. It gives us something to fight about. "Dammit DCG! You'd better start answering my questions...Now let's go get a beer." All in all, compared to every other coin, DCG is the best core team I've ever seen. I've been involved in a lot of coins including stellar coins like Maidsafe, so that's not a light praise.

"You had 100% absolute confidence and trust with no question, no doubt in your mind. It was all down to the misinformation from other coins? OK if that is your opinion OK. "

I was a little worried when Ryan started talking about moving to POS. Before that, no, I can't say that I've ever had a shred of doubt about the core team after I did my initial research. Its not because I haven't tried. You may have seen my comment style and the way I argue; I try to find a hole in EVERYTHING. But DCG, every step of the way, took the right turns towards decentralization, transparency and growth. Honestly, your concerns to me read to be WAY overblown, but I've refrained from saying anything because I believe that we should push back against DCG too.

"I would appreciate it if your theories about peoples psychological state to yourself."

I REFUSE. Psychological state is about 90% of decision-making, so I would treat anyone who would try to move our line of reasoning away from that as an infiltrator and a troll. I know better with you, but the answer is NO. Find something else.

"Not only is it bullshit it has no place in a discussion."

You're wrong. Psychological state is EXTREMELY important to both your decision-making and how you carry it out. Its so important that there are laws preventing certain actions under certain psychological states. You're being naive here.

"Just stick to the facts about the issue."

This statement assumes that my comments are not factual, for which you must provide evidence. I provided evidence (which doesn't mean my allegations are true), and it is your job to provide evidence in response, otherwise you are not arguing fairly.

"Your point on misinformation was a useful contribution. "

Thank you!

"Lets keep the psychology of people's ego and motivations out of it shall we."

No.

Thanks, for reading and commenting!
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
@therealDashman21 personal comments about a person's character has no place in a discusion. If your arguments are strong enough there is no justifiable reason to comment on or attack a person's character, mental state, motivations. Your arguments should focus on the topics at hand not on the person. If you can't argue against the facts of an argument then your arguments are simply weak. I've discussed all your points without addressing your personality, ego, psychology or anything else personal to you. I don't need to do that.

By undertaking ad hominem attacks it lowers your credibility. You made some reasonable points but when I saw the personal comments. They could have stood on their own. Instead my opinion of you has been lowered, when it could have gone up if you'd just stuck to your arguments without raising personal issues.

I have a Zero tolerance policy to people making ad hominem attacks. If someone continues with such behaviour, because they are incapable of having a strong enough argument, then I just completely ignore that person's comments going forward. I don't even read them going forward. So, its up to you. If I see this type of behaviour again you will be completely excluded and I won't even read your comments. Others will also do the same.

You remind me of one other user from the past that kept doing ad hom attacks. They had to keep changing their username because they lost their reputation. That person is a nobody now in DASH because people got tired of having attacks on their character. If you continue you too will eventually just be ignored, and I guess you will too also change your username. Is that the route you want to go down? Ignored by everyone in the DASH community?

And when it comes to development work I've been a Dev manager as part of my role for 12 years. I hit my estamated delivery dates +/- 20%. Yes, Im not working in Blockchain and yes, it is likely that it is more complex to get estimates correct. But 200% out is not reasonable -it shows me that DCG must have been guessing not estimating. I use Agile estimating methodology - it is a discipline and procedure. I take on developers and invariably they no nothing about estimating. Developers need to learn proper estimating skills if they are to have a chance of delivering on time. It is a skill and a discipline just like programming is a skill. It's clear that DCG did not have that skill when delivery dates were announced for Evo.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Where have I made personal comments about someone's character? And anyway, "character witnesses" are definitely a thing so your assertion appears to be speculation without basis. My arguments strength or weakness is not in question, nor do I particularly care about it.

Although its true that my arguments are usually overwhelmingly strong, that's merely a side-effect of my argumentative style which, over time has allowed me to basically whittle away with extreme accuracy and speed the arguments of others. I guess by arguing with dozens of paid monero and other trolls thousands of times over the last 5 years, I have become an expert in identifying both trollish behavior, and the psychological motivations of those who attempt such behaviors.

You don't appreciate it, which is your right, but certain argument styles are like boxing. You give away who your trainer was, how well you've trained and other vital pieces of information, just by a few seconds in every fight. To the TRAINED eye at least. To the untrained eye it can appear as you say, so I do sympathize with your incredulity. But you must realize that all behaviors and actions stem from our internal motivations and inner thoughts. To wit, THOSE THINGS THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DISMISS FROM THE CONVERSATION ARE THE GENESIS OF OUR ENEMIES ANGST AGAINST US. If we don't understand that we won't understand or know our enemies. If we don't know ourselves, we won't be able to resist their lies and fud and we will ATTACK OURSELVES as you attack DCG. The reason behind that behavior, while hidden IS NOT INDECIPHERABLE.

"By undertaking ad hominem attacks it lowers your credibility"

My attacks are NOT ad-hominem. Ad-hominem attacks are attacks that seek TO DODGE legitimate criticisms/attacks by responding to them with an UNRELATED MATTER TO THE DISCUSSION AT HAND. An ad-hominem attack is not any reference to character or internal motivation so I think you have some misunderstanding there. Ad-hominem attacks refer SPECIFICALLY AND ONLY to attempts to DEFLECT a LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT with an ILLEGITIMATE ONE.

But referencing FP's egotistical attack on our coin goes to show his motivations, because again your actions always stem from your motivations. Which is where the saying "don't trust words, trust actions" comes from. You can SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT. But your actions always have consequences that you're wont to avoid, which means when your actions and words don't align its because you're trying to lie or take advantage of others by causing a disconnect between your behavior and their perception of it. Like when Fluffypony P&D'ed his own coin. YOUR SUGGESTION WOULD AMOUNT TO **IGNORING** THIS WHICH WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL BEHAVIOR TO EVERYONE BUT SCAMMERS. Careful.

"Instead my opinion of you has been lowered, when it could have gone up if you'd just stuck to your arguments without raising personal issues."

That's ok, with all respect due to you my fellow colleague, I really don't care. Your opinion of me SHOULD ALREADY BE AS LOW AS POSSIBLE so that you only take my words on their merits. You should assume I'm trying to rip you off and MAKE ME PROVE YOU WRONG. So in that regard, you've actually lost a bit of luster in MY VIEW because you're proving naive. Its okay though, this is a judgment-free zone and we are colleagues, so take my assessment with a grain of salt.

"I have a Zero tolerance policy to people making ad hominem attacks."

And I have a Zero tolerance policy to ultimatums, so its probably best that you end your replies with this one.

" I don't even read them going forward"

That's fine. I will cherish the influence I have had up until this point. However, I must submit that you do not understand what an ad-hominem attack truly is. Referencing someone's character is only an ad-hominem attack if you're trying to deflect from a legitimate criticism, its not like you're never supposed to do that ever in your life. You seem to be under a certain misunderstanding about what those arguments actually are...

"If I see this type of behaviour again you will be completely excluded and I won't even read your comments."

Buh bye!!

" That person is a nobody now in DASH because people got tired of having attacks on their character."

I have no fear of anything like that. I have probably lost more credibility that you ever had, or ever WILL HAVE. And still my character in this network is imppeachable. There is none other who has predicted correctly as many times as I have, as many various things as I have. I have written more seminal papers that have been read by literally hundreds of thousands of people (verifiable metrics) about a wider variety of topics than anyone. Go on reddit to see my work. There is no way your tiny threat could be of any consequence to me, thanks for the warning though!

" Is that the route you want to go down? Ignored by everyone in the DASH community?"

Exactly who are you defending? Are you defending FluffyPony? Or yourself? Who's character are you alleging I attacked?

" I hit my estamated delivery dates +/- 20%. Yes, Im not working in Blockchain and yes, it is likely that it is more complex to get estimates correct."

It is unfair to dismiss these two differences like that. Blockchain is completely unprecedented territory with literally BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THE LINE. You're a developer? STOP BEING NAIVE. Dash Platform is on EvoNet because DCG is SMARTER THAN OTHER TEAMS. Instead of pushing breaking changes to a RUNNING NETWORK they upgrade slowly but surely and push it all at once when its ready and proven so there's minimal disripution. THIS IS SOFTWARE ARCHITECTURE 101 SO YES I'M CALLING YOU NAIVE IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT. AND NO THAT'S NOT AN AD-HOMINEM ATTACK.

"It's clear that DCG did not have that skill when delivery dates were announced for Evo."

Yeah which was like 5 years ago, guess what? NO SHIT SHERLOCK. They've already admitted their initial estimates were naive and apologized to the community for the unnecessarily hyped expectations. What could they do? We've already buried that hatched and you're looking for a pound of flesh? Yeah, I guess I should be glad you won't be responding anymore. You have several faulty assumptions that makes further discourse inadvisable. Thank you for your time and attention to this point!
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
And still my character in this network is *UNimppeachable.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Oh and one more factor that must also be taken into account when assessing Dash's price decline is something I carefully laid out in this viral thread that most likely got tens of thousands of views across all subreddits it was posted to.

That fact is that Dash's price is, like the rest of the alt-coin market, paradoxically tied to BTC's price s.t. whenever someone buys/sells a lot of BTC the price of Dash and other coins moves at the same time.

This is a major cause for both the second runup from 2017 and the crash over the bear market since 2018, as fair value shows https://coinfairvalue.com. Fair value is an objective, mathematical way to determine coin price using blockchain metrics instead of exchange data. As such, it is a much more accurate representation of the price of coins as told by the holders and traders of those coins.

Anyway, that thread details all of this information and it went viral with likely 5-10k views in the r/bitcoincash thread alone. And this is judging from my view counts metrics from reddit provided before reddit removed the same about 1 and a half years before this thread debuted.

Metrics which would've only grown since as I became more popular across more subreddits like r/pivx, r/zec, r/bitcoincash, r/linux, r/cryptocurrencies, r/cryptomarkets and others, where as you can see I was well received, despite vote-brigading from the monero community):

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoincash/comments/d988ue/the_real_reason_for_the_price_decline_or_the/

Just a morsel:

"The REAL reason for the price decline or the anatomy of a shakedown! Exchange price manipulation is behind the recent 'decline'"

"They are able to accomplish this trick, again, because the way exchanges price cryptocurrencies causes ALL COIN VALUATIONS to be priced in BTC. This means that when there's a big move in the price of BTC THEN ALL COINS EXPERIENCE THAT MOVEMENT even though nothing has actually changed with their investment situation.

PROOF of this is how the fair value doesn't change like the price is changing. Take a look at the graphs there on the main page. Notice something?"

So basically, in summary, my contention is that any argument about the price decline of Dash, and thus the performance or non-performance of DCG, must take into account both the aggressive short-selling by the monero community that I have basically conclusively proven, as well as the fact that BTC unfairly and unduly holds control over the price of the market since exchanges price alt-coins in BTC instead of indepedently with their own fiat pairings. This means the cryptomarkets movements AREN'T REAL, SO ANY ARGUMENT AGAINST CORE BASED ON THESE FAKE MOVEMENTS IS FAKE TOO.
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5 points,6 months ago
I have had a chance to work with Jan for a couple of years now. He has always been really focused on the project and gave Dash his heart and soul. Although he probably works in the most challenging part of the world, as everything works fine here and the adoption of cryptocurrencies is difficult, he doesn't give up and I love his commitment.
DACH Embassy brought to us really big players from the European crypto market and thanks to Jan and his team, I can purchase many goods on the Internet - e.g. from the Galaxus store, where I have already spent thousands of Swiss Francs last months buying e.g. guitar, camping equipment, cooking tools, books, CDs, amplifier and maaaany other items. And I was able to pay with DASH thanks to DACH Embassy - thanks for this. I was waiting really long time for this.
Now Jan is working with Worldline on another project - if he is successful, I will be able to pay with Dash in the grocery store just around the corner. This was my dream since I have joined this project. Therefore I offered him my support, time and help.

If comes to the proposal - I have read the whole strategy document very carefully and I find it a really solid piece of work. Probably no one did so complex analysis of crypto and Dash for any region ever before. This is really impressive and I look forward to working with Jan on the implementation of this strategy.
I hope the proposal passes and we'll continue our work together here in Europe.
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0 points,5 months ago
Thank you for your support, Robert.
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5 points,6 months ago
You have my support as always. Keep up the good work.
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0 points,5 months ago
Thank you.
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5 points,6 months ago
The marketing strategy document and videos is well detailed and professionally delivered. I look forward to the concluding parts as we'll also be working with some of the ideas in it.

Here's to supporting the Dach proposal most especially for your work in the formation and running of the Dash Co-Working (DCW) - a group of Dfos, Dcg, et al working together for Dash adoption and preventing duplicative efforts.

Looking forward to this proposal passing.

Nathaniel - Dash Nigeria
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0 points,5 months ago
Thank you, Nathaniel. We really hope that you will be able to take advantage of the document we are working on.
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3 points,6 months ago
impressive work on this huge data driven Marketing plan and analysis. Good luck on your proposal.
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0 points,5 months ago
Thank you, Sascha.
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3 points,6 months ago
You have my support for this very detailed budget proposal.
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0 points,5 months ago
Thank you, qwizzie.
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-1 point,6 months ago
Voting No. The DACH region is not our target market. DASH offers no advantages over Euro in this region that I can see.

Our target markets, at this moment of time of DASH's development, are for users that do not have access to the banking system or in countries with distressed currencies. In the past Jan has said that we can market to both. I disagree with this point of view. For 2 reasons:

1. We are spending money on marketing to a region that will not use DASH in day to day purchases with our current DASH product. The only chance I see there for DASH having a chance to complete is if Dash has a stable coin - then we might have a chance to compete against Euro. As it stands now we do not have a DASH twin stable coin and therefore cannot compete against Euro or USD.

2. There is a loss of focus on our key market which is definitely not the DACH region. We need to stay focused on our target markets only.


I ask Jan. Give me a list of actual real world applications of DASH in the DACH region that makes it more beneficial to use DASH than Euro?

If you can't do this then we should not be spending time and money marketing in the DACH region at this time when there are other projects that need this money in our target markets.
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4 points,6 months ago
Hello DeepBlue,

thank you for contributing by asking the tough questions. I’m convinced that this helps you and other MNOs to understand the reasonings behind our proposal and activities.

I don’t agree that the DACH region or first world countries in general should be excluded from our target markets for several reasons. All of them are connected to the threats and opportunities we mentioned in our SWOT analysis, which is linked in the proposal description above.

Let me repeat one of the (from my perspective) most dangerous threats:

„A falling market capitalization would reduce the Dash DAO's budget and thus reduce the scope for action of DFOs worldwide.“

If this happens this means that there won‘t be any money left in the treasury for any team, no matter which market you want to focus on. And it‘s already happening. We went down from being a top 5 coin to being a top 20 coin.

Now why do I think that a market like ours can avert a threat like this? Because of the comparably high purchasing power and the comparably high GDP. Will people from a region like ours invest in a project like Dash, if it’s only succeeding in a market like Venezuela? I doubt it, but I could be wrong. This is why we need to do some research on target groups, which will happen in chapter seven of the strategy document above. If it turns out that the usecase in Venezuela is taking positive influence on the investment decision made in first world markets that would be awesome and we would just need to communicate our achievements in emerging markets. If not it might make sense to take a closer look at the opportunities listed in our SWOT and TOWS analysis.

Do you agree that the threat mentioned above should be adressed?

In regards to issues that Dash could solve for people in our region, there are at least two:

1. Negative interest rates on savings in bank accounts
2. High demand for privacy in payments

But besides asking what Dash has to offer to the people in our region (or first world countries in general) it might make sense to also ask what these regions have to offer for Dash. Dash has been giving a lot for a very long time now and we can all see the results. Maybe it’s time to reconsider and think about what could help Dash as well.

As you know I agree to some of the arguments of Andreas Antonopoulus, but from what I know he is a computer scientist and not an economic prodigy. This is why I think that his statements are only covering one side of the coin. From my perspective it might make sense to open up for additional research and arguments instead of repeating the probably incomplete assumptions of only one guy. To enable you to do this in a convenient way we recorded all our research and findings and uploaded them to youtube. Did you take a look at those?

All that said I’d like to remind you that this proposal is about creating a strategy that can be adjusted and be used as a template by all teams in the Dash DAO. For this reason only it might make sense to save your no votes until we are asking for a marketing budget for the DACH region.

If you would like to contribute to the whole process of creating a strategy you are invited to do so by leaving comments on specific paragraphs in the strategy document or in the comment section of the videos. And as I already offered you in the last budget cycle I’d also be happy to jump on a call.

Have a great weekend,

Jan / essra
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1 point,5 months ago
Hi Jan, I know you and I like you a lot. But what you said about Dash being a good investment (presumably as a master node) is nonsense. Since we are getting paid in Dash and not in Euro, but the food cost is pegged to euro, then you need to calculate the gains in Euro, not in Dash. And then a Masternode will have a negative interest rate. Unlike a company that will keep paying you in Euro. I agree with DeepBlue that we need to focus on Venezuela.
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2 points,6 months ago
@Dash_Embassy I appreciate your intentions are positive and you are hard-working and committed member of DASH. We need more people that have your type of committent to the project. It is therefore difficult for me to have to vote against a project which has such a committed DASH member. But commitment and good intentions alone are not enough for me to vote Jan.

Let me address your point on DASH price drop first:

One of the main reasons for the DASH price drop is because of Dash perception as an anonymous coin that cause it to be dropped by the Asian investors. In addition the EU Parliament classifieds DASH as an anonymous coin and bitcoin as pseudonymous. Investors in Asian and EU were spooked by the fact that many exchanges dropped DASH due to its reputation of being anonymous.

See this EU Parliament document on page 51 in Table 2 The report also states that coins anonymous coins will impede their growth and chance of adoption – which is exactly what has happened with DASH.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/150761/TAX3%20Study%20on%20cryptocurrencies%20and%20blockchain.pdf


See also page 48 on DASH in the same document. Note that they use this reference to backup DASH being anonymous:

https://www.coindesk.com/true-anonymity-darkcoin-king-altcoins

Therefore the first step in getting investors back to DASH is to surely to directly address these anonymous issues first?

If investors are to be gained in the EU and Asia the labelling of DASH as an anonymous coin like Monero needs to be first reversed otherwise no matter the type of marketing you do investors will be reluctant to take the risk of investing in DASH. For me personally this issue of anonymity caused a major concern and as a result I sold a portion of my holding in DASH to a non anonymous coin.

I am still considering if I will sell more DASH due to this issue which has not been addressed adequately yet but I've decided to wait a little while longer to see how DASH Japan get on.

My Take on The Business Dev Strategy for DASH
I believe in building a cryptocurrency that is actually useful and solves real world problems for people and businesses - thus making people and businesses naturally to want to use the currency. Spending money on marketing a product that will not work in developed countries with the product as it is is a simply a loss of valuable resources in my opinion.

Priorities and Focus
The DACH project is asking for 13,000 USD per month yet projects that actually are bringing in real world users e.g Dash Mall & Parking currently with over 2,000 transactions per month get only 4k per month. How does that even make sense to spend 3 times more on a project that is not bringing in real world users? If we spent your marketing money on that project it could be substantially increased.

The DACH Embassy project has been marketing and working to integrate DASH now for a considerable amount of time and yet DASH still dropped in position from 5th to 20th. If the business Dev and marketing strategies of the DACH were effective then would this drop have happened?

In countries like Venezuela they are not trying to promote dash in marketing. They are getting DASH used in real world situations, solving real world problems, using DASH as a working currency. We need to focus on these types of markets.

When do I think marketing activity to the DACH region would be useful? It would be under the following conditions:

1. When we have a large scale real world usage of DASH solving real world problems.

2. An application for DASH in the DACH region in which a solution could be built that would outperform the Euro and give users some real world benefits. What comes to mind is applications in which we have accountability utility built in with the solution i.e. the DASH blockchain recording immutable transactions publicly along with combining a payment method. This type of solution cannot be provide easily or cost effectively with the Euro. Another example may be solutions built around micropayments.

3. The posibility that that the EU could be approached and to change their incorrect conclusion that DASH is anonymous like Monero.

I notice that you did not mention any specific real world use case of DASH in the DACH region? Presumably because there are none?

It is only by investing money into improving the DASH product will we see healthy, steady and stable increase in the DASH price. By marketing a product that cannot currently be used in developed countries to attract speculative investors will only result in wild volatility as we have seen to date. Examples of other companies that have followed this principal of spending marketing money on building a better product are Teslar, Amazon and Virgin. These companies did not spend money on marketing in their early development days but rather invested all their money in making their product better. We may also note that these companies are some of the most profitable companies in the World.

I am a proponent of undertaking market research provided it is research into *real world use cases* of DASH and *not* marketing DASH.


If the DACH embassy approach would align more with building practical users or improving DASH as a product rather than speculative investors I would be more willing to consider a vote for your projects.

If we focused our efforts and investment in building real world users DASH price would naturally and consistently go up. But our time, money and resources are currently being split disproportionately towards projects that are not on our core focus markets. This is why I feel strongly we must focus on real world use to get and build real world use cases. We need focus and emphasis on this instead of using our energy on marketing to customers that cannot use our currency as it is now.

My view on how to promote DASH is based on my core values of "keeping it real" and practicality first that has always led to success in my own businesses. Since it based on decades of experience and fits with my core values as a human being these views are not something I will change. This is why I feel a call would be of limited value. I can't change some of my deepest values.
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0 points,5 months ago
Hello DeepBlue,

thank you for recognizing our efforts and intentions.

I don’t understand why you are putting Asia and the EU in the same basket. Unlike in Japan Dash did not get delisted from any exchanges in the EU, at least not in any that I’m aware of. We were even able to integrate Dash into Coinify, which is one of the most restrictive crypto-payment companies in the EU when it comes to compliance.

According to the CEO of Neptune Dash, the Frankfurt Stock Exchange has the biggest trading volume of Neptune Dash shares worldwide right now. This seems to be a good indicator that the privacy feature of Dash is well accepted in our region. Anonymous payments are even ensured by the coalition contract of the ruling parties of Germany from 2018 to 2022 (page 44): https://www.cdu.de/system/tdf/media/dokumente/koalitionsvertrag_2018.pdf

Nevertheless I can understand your concerns regarding the classification of Dash as anonymous in the EU study from 2018 you mentioned in your comment. I agree that misconceptions like these are a threat for Dash in general. This is why I applied to become a board member of the blockchain working group of bitkom, which is the digital association of Germany representing over 2,600 companies from the digital industry. I got elected in 2019 and now I’m sitting next to e.g. IBM and comdirect working on positioning papers for the German legislative and regulator. (this was mentioned on our previous proposals. Maybe we should have mentioned it on this one, too as this is ongoing) https://www.bitkom.org/Bitkom/Organisation/Gremien/Blockchain.html

Our activities with bitkom are not focused on the German speaking market only. We are also operating on European level and took part in a consultation in regards to crypto-regulation early this year: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/business_economy_euro/banking_and_finance/documents/2019-crypto-assets-consultation-document_en.pdf
For the EU consultation we were collaborating with DCG. Right now the outcome of this consultation is unclear, but it’s the goal of the EU to create a new regulatory framework for crypto during this summer. We hope that our recommendations will be taken to account and that the new laws will be similar to the ones we have in Germany.

The new regulatory framework in Germany, which is in place since the beginning of 2020, allows banks to offer crypto custody. These new laws even convinced BitGo to open an office in Germany (https://www.bitgo.com/company/press/switzerland-and-germany). And the Stock Exchange in Stuttgart launched a fully regulated crypto exchange. That being said I would call Germany kind of crypto-friendly.
Supported by DCG we approached a law firm in Switzerland and received a legal opinion on Dash and PrivateSend. The outcome was positive and we are using this for whatever actions we are taking under Swiss law. We also received a draft of a legal opinion from a German law firm, but I’m not satisfied with it yet, so we did not use it to reach out to BaFin (German regulator) yet. But this is still on our roadmap.
In regards to your statement about marketing I can only say that we did not do any mentionable marketing activities since we started this project. We did some PR in 2018 and organized a roadshow, but this was more about B2B communication and research related.

You keep saying that we are targeting speculative investors. I wonder if this term suits the fans of the Austrian school of economics. We identified them to be a good opportunity for Dash, because Dash's economics are a perfect fit to their core values. I know that you have your own values, but maybe you should consider that yours are not the only ones.

In regards to the budget: I don’t have the impression that we are taking away any money from initiatives in Venezuela. In fact we are trying the opposite by creating and implementing a proper marketing strategy that can be adjusted for any region.

Thank you for reading,

Jan
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0 points,6 months ago
Can MNOs ***PLEASE**** take a few minutes to watch the interview segment with Andreas Antonoplous found on the link below. He explains what our traget market is exactly. And we absolutely must understand this to make the right investment decisions.

https://youtu.be/MfNzjkFb58s?t=110

Our target market are for people that do not have access to stable financial systems, countries with Dictatorships, Countries with distressed currencies - this accounts for 6 billion people We have to focus on these markets.

Getting DASH integrated into payment systems is a complete waste of time unless users in those countries are actually going to use DASH. I could possibly say that intergration in payment systems in other countries such as Colombia, USA, Spain etc might possibly be worthwhile (after doing a market analysis) because these are the countries that Venezuelans have fled to and they need to make remittances back to their country. However apart from that integration into any payment systems where the user is not going to use DASH is just a complete waste of time money and resources.
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