Proposal “Adoption-Cornerstone-Estonia-And-Beyond“ (Closed)Back

Title:28 POS / 13 merchants / 4000+ guests / 4 days / 100% DASH only / Mass adoption cornerstone in Estonia and beyond
Owner:rullikas
Monthly amount: 172 DASH (35089 USD)
Completed payments: 3 totaling in 516 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2018-04-18 / 2018-07-17 (added on 2018-04-14)
Votes: 743 Yes / 122 No / 29 Abstain

Proposal description

28 POS / 13 merchants / 4000+ guests / 4 days / 100% DASH only / Mass adoption cornerstone in Estonia and beyond

Update 1: Dash POS Demo video 2
Update 2: BIP32 HD wallets implemented
Update 3: POS Hardware And Software Demo video 3
(22.05.2018)

The current problem with cryptocurrencies is the lack of real life use.
Our mission is to increase awareness and adoption by utilising DASH in real life scenarios.

We’re a team from Estonia and we have delivered multiple dash proposals in the past. This following proposal is a re-submission of an improved version of our latest idea. To understand the scope and impact of this idea, please take your time and read the whole document.

A 4-day event (in a closed environment) with 28 Point-of-Sale locations and up to 5000 guests is a good environment for testing the real use potential of DASH. We expect tens of thousands of DASH transactions to happen at the event. All of them will be broadcasted to the network and they will appear in the blockchain.

To make this happen, we are cooperating with the organisers of I Land Sound, who are willing to take the extra steps and risk necessary to provide this proposal as a case study to the DASH community/ecosystem.

The objective is to create a payment system that will enable events/festivals to go “cashless” or “fiatless” - by utilising DASH as the only payment method. All the payment processes inside the festival area will be done in DASH only, starting from the entrance, food trucks, bars, merchandise etc. The software development has already begun and we’re making good progress (see video)

The system is originally developed to power the I Land Sound music festival in Estonia, but this is just the beginning.
Many other events and merchants will benefit from this system.

This is going to be the first large-scale (up to 5000 users) pilot project of this kind. Read more about I Land Sound at the bottom of this proposal.

User experience
When guests enter the festival area, they receive NFC wristbands in exchange for fiat money (we send equivalent amounts of DASH to the addresses controlled by their wristbands).
At all of the point-of-sale terminals, the festival attendees will be paying for all products using one of the two options:

  1. NFC wristbands that has been pre-loaded with some DASH (primary option, for people who arrive at the event with fiat money)
  2. Mobile devices - by scanning a QR code using a wallet app (secondary option, for people who arrive at the event with their own DASH)

Using NFC wristbands will demonstrate how fast and easy it is to use DASH for payments.

Technical details
The following solution has been reviewed by core team members Jon Kindel (integrations engineer) and Fernando Gutierrez (head of marketing).

Before the event starts, we generate up to 5000 DASH BIP32 extended private keys, then encrypt them before writing onto the NFC wristbands.
The parent (master) private key will then be deleted to increase security (there won’t be any other copies).
In this setup, each wristband is directly associated with an unlimited amount of addresses and they act as physical keys that can sign raw DASH transactions generated at the POS terminals.

Guests will be able to add DASH onto their wristbands at the festival gate or at a designated recharge station located at the middle of the festival area.

The payment system will have two modes of operation:
  1. Immediate broadcast
  2. Consolidating
If network congestion (= mining fee) is normal at the time of the event, then the “immediate broadcast” method will be used, resulting in all POS transactions being broadcasted to the DASH network immediately. Otherwise, the “consolidating” method will be used (similarly how exchanges process withdrawals).

What are we offering to the DASH community?
  •  Help DASH achieve it’s #1 goal: Mass adoption. A big step towards large-scale adoption in Estonia and the Baltics.
  •  4 days, closed Festival area for DASH usage only
  •  28 POS locations (food, bar, merch) with DASH as the only payment method for 4 days
  • Up to 5000 new wallets created, massively increase awareness and adoption in Estonia
  • All transactions will be broadcasted to the network
  • First full-coverage (adoption, payment functions, POS solution, etc.) cryptocurrency festival in the world (unlimited options for marketing DASH, DASH payments, Blockchain etc.)
  • Being the biggest Estonian alternative electronic music festival, I Land Sound and DASH as a payment method will be covered in all main media channels 
  • Lots of interest from all over the world - especially blockchain and crypto communities.
  • DASH branded items in the festival area
    - bean-bags (52pc) and tables (13pc)
    - 28 POS systems
    - Main stage Dash branding

DASH-branded POS hardware will be heavily re-used at other similar events (including I Land Sound 2019) throughout the following years.
I Land Sound organisers have 8 years of experience in running nightclubs, restaurants, parties and festivals and they’re in a good position to do big things with DASH in this field.
After I Land Sound 2018, the POS systems will be installed at various pubs and nightclubs owned by this group.

Budget (Explained in attachment)
  • Proposal fee - 5 Dash
  • Festival Entrance, Registration Tent and Money Exchange - 43 Dash / 10750€
  • “Charged By Dash” charging station, money exchange (Festival area) - 27 Dash / 6750€
  • Main Stage - Dash branding - 119 Dash / 29750€
  • Marketing - 67 Dash / 16750€
  • Bar and food POS hardware and set-up - 156 Dash / 39000€
  • Test-Event (to test POS systems, wristbands and technology) - 9 Dash / 2250€
  • Team salaries - 90 Dash (for 3 months) / 22500€
Total: 3 x 172 DASH / 129 000€

The following costs will NOT be covered from the proposal budget:
DJs and artists, art+decorations, construction, bars, other 5 stages + sound/light/video equipment, electricity transport/logistics, toilets, artist/team accommodation/catering/transport, crew, security, design, installations, performances, camping, parking etc. In 2017 these costs were in the ballpark of 150,000 EUR.

In case this proposal does not get funded, the event will still happen, but without DASH as the only payment method.

About I Land Sound
I Land Sound 2018 is high quality alternative music festival in a magical and remote location hidden in the Northern Europe, Estonia. This will be the First ever Dash only music festival the world will experience.

Festival audience is aged between 23-40 years, conscious and open-minded people. They come there for various reasons, starting with the island, for alternative music; to experience the overwhelming commitment from the community, clean food and air. For a person coming from the city, this was a perfect getaway, to once more come in contact with the nature and experience the oneness.

Read more about I Land Sound here
I Land Sound 2018 event on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/2012452915652471/
#ilandsound on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ilandsound/

Who are we?
We are a group of crypto entrepreneurs, investors and enthusiasts from Estonia, with a mission to bring cryptocurrency into everyday real use. We have delivered other Dash related proposals in the past. Estonia has been open minded for many infrastructural changes in the past (e-school, voting and signing with ID card, online prescriptions) making us certain that DASH integration will be welcomed.

Unfortunately, our previous proposal did not get enough Yes votes to be funded. We learned a lot from the process and understand what we did wrong with delivering the concept.
After countless hours of meetings, brainstorming and thinking, we have a much clearer vision of the whole process and it fits the current market situation better.

After being in contact with Jon Kindel and Fernando Gutierrez - representatives of the Dash Core team, we decided to continue development of the system and have hired two developers.
We are certain about the success of this project.

See our pre-proposal here

Please also see our previous successful proposals: 
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-building-dash-community-in-tallinn-estonia.21964
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-dash-diamond-sponsorship-of-tallinn-blockchain-conference-4-5-december-17.17500/

Future prospects
At the moment we are developing our own POS solution, but we are also negotiating integration with CompuCash - the leading local POS solution in the HoReCa (Hotels, Restaurants and Catering) field.
Their POS solution is being used by 10,000 people in Estonia on a daily basis.
The developers of CompuCash are very interested in this project, but due to a tight schedule, they are unable to deliver in time for our deadline.
About Ektaco: http://www.ektaco.ee/en/about-us/
About Point of Sale solution CompuCash: http://www.ektaco.ee/en/point-of-sale-systems/

The festival is our first step, but the CompuCash integration could probably lead to most HoReCa (Hotels, Restaurants and Catering) merchants in Estonia being able to accept Dash in the long term.

We hope that you see the long-term benefits of this project.


Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

Submit comment
 
1 point,2 months ago
Dash Watch June 28th 2018 Report on
28 POS / 13 merchants / 4000+ guests / 4 days / 100% DASH only / Mass adoption cornerstone in Estonia and beyond by rullikas
https://dashwatch.org/files/1530223777825.pdf
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
Dash Watch May 28th 2018 Report on:
28 POS / 13 merchants / 4000+ guests / 4 days / 100% DASH only / Mass adoption cornerstone in Estonia and beyond
https://dashwatch.org/files/1527568152721.pdf
Reply
-2 points,3 months ago
Due to the current handheld computers owned by most concert goers in europe already, I believe this huge outlay of expense into fiat is unnecessary and redundant.
handheld devices owned by concert goers generally already have a web browser which only needs direction to mydashwallet to interface with simple qr code technology that can be deployed to any sales at concerts and otherwhere.
The treasury dumping money to convert and buy a bunch of redundant hardware, marketing, and deployment/usage costs are counterproductive and distracting from the relatively simple dash usage infrastructure already available.
They go to the concert use the existing infrastructure of wallets and leave the concert with the ability to continue using dash on their handheld electronic webbrowser devices = 0 cost, permanent usage expansion.
Your hardware implementation = high cost, short usage lifetime and unnecessary/redundant...
Reply
1 point,3 months ago
Dear Stone,

From one point of view there’s a point in your explanation about the handheld electronics wide usage in here. In the beginning we even evaluated the possibility of doing it with handheld devices, but at the festival the priority is speed and precision. Under precision we mean pre calculated prices. There’s a pretty big chance of operators making mistakes with numbers. The other thing is that handheld devices have batteries and we can’t rely on possibility that clients don’t have a payment method.

The global trend for festivals right now is going “cashless” using NFC wristband technology.
Cashless solutions are fast, precise and secure. Festivals can’t expect guests to bring their own crypto, therefore a prepaid/rechargeable NFC solution is required.

Not to be rude but to fully understand our vision and bigger picture, please take your time and read the full text of this proposal and comments.
Reply
3 points,4 months ago
Hi!
We have produced a small update video regarding this proposal.
The video demonstrates our hardware and software solution.
https://youtu.be/rhgh6FaM5Co
Reply
0 points,4 months ago
How does the nfc owner stop someone from reading and taking all the dash?
Reply
1 point,4 months ago
Hey Stone, thanks for the question.
The NFC data is encrypted with our own keys, meaning that it is only usable within the context of our POS system.
We also have multiple other safeguards in place, but we are not planning to publicly disclose them at this point.
Reply
-2 points,4 months ago
Thanks, I'll be waiting for a better explanation.
Reply
-1 point,4 months ago
"The NFC data is encrypted with our own keys".
Yes, I understand reproducing this NFC encrypted data would only be useful for someone interacting with your machine/s.
I don't doubt that other safeguards exist such as physical security of the band. . .
Reply
-1 point,4 months ago
Similar to how bus passes will write on the printed pass the information encoded into it.
Reply
3 points,4 months ago
Cost per person if the 5000 attendant limit is hit, is 50 dollar's per person(basically it such a good deal it does not matter if people show up or not ! . Sounds way to expensive to me, cost should be going way done if you have done similar proposals like this in the past.

I would probably be okay with a 5x price reduction if there is enough room in the budget, right now no way.

I would much more prefer to do some sort of price contest for Dash, where 5000 people win 50 dollars , for doing something.
Reply
1 point,4 months ago
Hey there. Thank you for your feedback.
The proposal is about setting the cornerstone for mass adoption in Estonia and beyond.
Therefore, your concept of ‘cost per person’ is a bit flawed because the treasury is not buying 5000 new users. This event is just something that needs to be done for further adoption to be (efficiently) possible. We need to demonstrate that DASH is quick, easy and convenient. 5000 users doing contactless NFC payments (100% DASH only) for 4 days in a row is a major step towards our mutual goal. It is also worth noting that the hardware and software will be re-used (installed) at various events/merchants as soon as the festival is over.
Reply
2 points,4 months ago
Dash Watch February 28th Report on
DASH Diamond Sponsorship of Tallinn Blockchain conference 4-5 December '17 by rullikas
https://dashwatch.org/files/1522186112005.pdf
Reply
1 point,4 months ago
Hi everyone,

We want to add a few more facts about Estonia and why it is important to get adoption here first. According to The Economist, the country in 2013 held the world record for the number of startups per person. And it’s not quantity over quality: Many Estonian startups are now successful companies that you may recognize, such as Skype, TransferWise, Pipedrive, Cloutex, Click & Grow, GrabCAD, Erply, Fortumo, Lingvist and others. Since independence the country has rapidly developed its IT sector, becoming one of the world's most digitally advanced societies. In 2005 Estonia became the first state to hold elections over the Internet, and in 2014 the first state to provide e-residency. The top three industries doing exponentially well compared to the global trends, are Location Services, Engineering & Technology, and Electronics & Hardware. Estonians are open-minded, tech-savvy and ready for changes.
We are aiming to bootstrap DASH adoption, starting with truly “frictionless” payments using contactless technology (NFC) and mobile payments (QR).
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
TECH UPDATE:
We have implemented BIP32 HD wallets functionality into our POS system.
Using hierarchical deterministic wallets greatly improves transaction privacy, because one extended private key on a NFC chip can be used to derive a virtually unlimited amount of addresses/keys.
Tapping the NFC wristband sends the change back to a new address every time, similarly how qt (Core) or Electrum wallet works.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Hi Rulikas

I was initially very excited to read about your pos project but it seems like you are only using a plug and play solution( compucash) and not making one. This means that the entire budget request is for musical event sponsorship like your previous project?. Is that correct ? If so, could you please make this clearer, it is hard to make out.

Jeremy Scott
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Hey

I am Taavet, one of the main organizers for I Land Sound Music Festival. First of all thank you all the MNO for voting and trusting us to move on with the goal to bring Dash into bigger picture. It will create unique user experience and beside marketing Dash as our main sponsor festival, it will be our only currency inside festival area. I Land Sound Festival is one of the biggest festivals (top 5) in Estonia on a remote island making it perfect ground to start using Dash as Digital cash and showing Dash as next step in our financial world.

Most of this proposal money is used to build up the system needed to use Dash as only payment method. Which means special POS systems for merchants, Dash top up tents (entrance and inside the area) and team who will provide and run the system as fluently as possible.
A smaller part of this budget goes to showing Dash as main sponsor (which means Dash branded items inside main stage, prints, branded wristbands and other stylish ways to put Dash in the picture for all those 4000+ guests)

The festival is having its own budget. I Land Sound festival will pay all the costs which are festival related (DJs and artists, art+decorations, construction, bars, other 5 stages + sound/light/video equipment, electricity transport/logistics, toilets, artist/team accommodation/catering/transport, crew, security, design, installations, performances, camping, parking etc.)

I Hope it made things more clear. I have a strong feeling that this could be a long step forward seeing Dash used in real life situation as public as possible. Trustworthy and free from all the weight that our monetary systems carries.

So i hope that the community shares the same goal what our team - using Dash as a payment solution and showing Dash as widely common and accepted currency. And this proposal is targeted to aim this goal 100%.

So 200+ votes is exactly what we need to create this unique opportunity.
For Dash community and understandings of 4000+ people seeing Dash to carry out something what hasnt been seen for ages. sending Fiat money to rest and using Dash as future solution.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Thank you for your question.

This particular event will NOT be using a CompuCash integration.
Before the resubmission of this proposal, we have started developing our own POS solution and we already have a working prototype of the software.
See video here: https://youtu.be/R8BiB6Lv7kY

This POS solution using contactless payments aswell as QR codes will benefit many other festivals/events around the world (starting from Estonia), allowing them to operate using DASH only. This improves transaction speed and theft security (bottlenecks at many festivals), among other things.
On the other hand, the CompuCash integration will open the doors for mass adoption in the HoReCa (Hotels, Restaurants & Catering) field.
We mentioned CompuCash in the proposal to show that we are not messing around, we have a clear vision for the future and we are actually doing great things for DASH here.

The festival is happening regardless of the outcome of this proposal.
The budget is for setting the cornerstone for mass adoption in Estonia and beyond.
A detailed layout of the costs is included in the proposal text.
For any kind of adoption to begin, we have to demonstrate that DASH is easy to use.
This event with 4000 people using DASH as the only payment method for 4 days will be a perfect example.

Keep in mind that Estonia is probably the best place in the world for doing this.
Estonians are very open to new tech and new methods of doing things.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Voting YES. Reason: Fernando feedback, Environment Estonia which is highly adoptable to new solutions and really a key market, and of course I also like to see escrow but the world is not perfect, trust and intuition are also valid markers, if we have a few fraudsters slip through but also a few boomers that will bring mass adoption faster, that is worth it, because this is a race to the finish line, and moving fast with adoption is more important than moving slow and secure and not making it. Estonia is the perfect place to get dash adoption, because it is a small country and highly innovative. I would argue it is THE best place to get adoption first.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Thank you for sharing the idea with us! :)
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Dear rullikas,
all indicators i watch are in green, as for the 1st one.
As an experimental real usage in real time.
More important is what must be fix at the end of this.
What is very eficiant too for sure.
And tank you to dont put photos and all the bling bling thing.

Yes, good luck.
Regards
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Thank you JoL!
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Network fees will be minimal there should be no need whatever to use consolidation.

What would be good is a guide for festival goers to redeem their unused dash from their wrist bands to their phone wallets after the festival.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Thank you, that is a great idea!
Reply
4 points,5 months ago
Votes yes the first time, happy to vote yes a second time.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
Thank you name3 :)
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
I'm glad you weren't deterred by the previous disappointment and have re-evaluated your proposal in order to try to make it a more agreeable arrangement. Seeing the spike in transactions from feedband's Dashfest and how that played out was really cool, so I'd love to see how Dash performs in this setting as well. It sounds like you've made some connections with this PoS provider CompuCash, which could be a great integration in the future, and with those it's always better to have "boots on the ground" so to speak in the area where the proposed integrations are transpiring.

What I'm uncertain about is this "cornerstone" concept, the idea that the mandatory use of Dash will translate in to widespread adoption elsewhere aside from your connections at CompuCash. I understand you intend to use it in future festivals, but are there other ways in which mass adoption and widespread use are being promoted by this event? Do you have other friends and partners in the entertainment industry, other festival promoters, etc with which you could broach the subject?

Essentially, I just want to ensure that this is more than a one (or two) time thing. A bump in transactions for a few days is great, but could you elaborate on how you foresee the action plan of moving from a few days to continued use?
Reply
4 points,5 months ago
Thank you for appreciating our input and our concept.

Dear MNOs, it would have been really easy to quit the project after it didn’t get enough votes. But we didn’t, because we believe in it. Each and everyone of us have their own businesses and we are grinding every day and have late night meetings to make this project happen. We have invested months of our personal time in this and honestly, our time is more valuable than the money we’re asking here. It’s not that much about money, it’s about vision and making a difference. We have a big vision for the Baltic and Scandinavian regions and we are just building the ground and trust for the future.

Indeed, we have a lot of friends and connections in the entertainment industry (and this extends beyond Estonia). Several entities are already interested in crypto payments, but we need to show them something. This proposal would enable us to “paint a picture” (DASH used as the only payment method for several days) that we could present to other event organisers and merchants. Estonia and Tallinn are perfect for bootstrapping adoption of DASH (we like tech!) and there’s also a considerable tourism aspect involved.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Also, thanks for including the video of your PoS system project, that's very ambitious and showcases your ability to pivot and come up with creative solutions. Very cool.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
So essentially, would you say that this serves as a "proof of concept" and "demonstration" of the utility of Dash as a payment system to these other potential future partners? If that's the case, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor, and you'll have my vote.
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Thank you for your feedback Arthyron. Yes, the point of that video is proof-of-concept.
Our developers are working hard at the moment and in the following days we will upload a better video of a working POS solution.
We will definitely use it to demonstrate the solution to other potential partners.
Reply
6 points,5 months ago
What I like most about this proposal is that it is about real usage. Dash not as an opinion, but as the only option. We would learn a lot about price setting, usage, connectivity and many other things we will only know about if we do this kind of stuff.

I've been meeting with the team regularly and I can attest they work hard and want the best for Dash. They have been putting other things apart for this and I really trust they will do a great job if given the opportunity.
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Tx fernando - am all in
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Thank you for your support Fernando & tungfa !
Reply
2 points,5 months ago
Thank you fernando for your input
Reply
-1 point,5 months ago
Aren't you the Fernando from Dash Core group that got promoted to Chief Marketing Officer?

Why do you give your opinion on a $65,000 proposal but stay silent on the big marketing ones that really matter?

In what school did you learn that "really trust" is a professional standard? Does your boss know that you're promoting someone's yearly salary on a "really trust" proposal, without any guarantees or escrow?

A bit more professionalism with other people's money, Fernando.
Reply
7 points,5 months ago
I give an opinion on this one because I have enough information to have a solid one. This group got in contact with me around 9 months ago in relation with a conference they were participating in Tallin (funded by a proposal). I was already aware of the promotion work they were doing back then in the Baltics. After that, I've seen them organize workshops to promote Dash and then they talked to me about this project. Because of the size I told them they should do a proposal, which they did. Because it didn't pass they have tried again. During all the process, me and a couple people of the biz dev team have had meetings with them and with external partners with whom they were working on POS and NFC wristband solutions.

To properly judge the big marketing proposals I should need to get very involved with them. I'm in contact with Graham Langdon (Feedbands) and Patrick McKenna (Stricke Social), but I don't have enough information or time to fully analyze what they are doing. I know very little about Ben Swann. Besides that, I think it should be MNOs who make that kind of judgement. Dash Core is the biggest actor in the ecosystem, but we should encourage others to do things independently. Collaborate when possible, but never be the central point of failure.

As for escrow, it is a correction for a weakness of the system (lack of accountability if someone runs with the money), but not a requirement. In fact, if it was a requirement it would be an ever bigger weakness because we would be centralizing in just a few actors who provide escrow.

MNOs need to analyze risk/reward and vote accordingly. As a community we've got burnt a few times already and I understand you if you prefer to vote no on all proposals that don't come with escrow. In this case (and many others), I'm personally comfortable without escrow because I've seen them deliver on a couple of occasions already and because the biggest risks associated with this project, mostly execution, can't be avoided with escrow.
Reply
-6 points,5 months ago
Is that your excuse for not getting involved in the bigger proposals? "Encourage others to do things independently"? Because you can find the time to be involved in this one for $65,000 but there's no time for you, or anyone under your supervision, to weigh in on a $2.4 million, is there?

Every single dumb idiot with a masternode has an opinion on the $2.4 million proposals, including me, but strangely you don't. Better leave this highly technical and extremely consequential decision to masternodes, right? If I stay quiet, maybe they won't notice I exist. Perhaps I'm the only one seeing the problem here.

Anyway, still voting no because there wasn't even an attempt to secure escrow.
Reply
1 point,5 months ago
rullikas,
The plan for the proposed POS solution doesn't seem to clear to me.
It says you are developing your own, but you're negotiating integration with CompuCash. Then you go on to say that CompuCash is unable to deliver in time for the event. If you are not utilizing a CompuCash POS solution then why mention it in your proposal? And what if you're not able to develop a working POS solution in time for the event?
Also, are you guys planning to utilize InstantSend in your POS solution?
Reply
0 points,5 months ago
Hey.

Thank you for your feedback.
We kind of have two projects going on at the same time.
We are developing our own POS system for events/festivals.
We mentioned CompuCash to show that there is a good possibility for mass adoption in Estonia and we are working towards our mutual goal.
100% Dash-Only I Land Sound 2018 would be a good introduction for people to get used to Dash before they’re ready for a larger-scale integration like CompuCash.

We are not planning to utilize InstantSend because we create and broadcast the transactions ourselves. This removes the need of waiting for confirmations and double spending is not possible because only we can decrypt the private key from the NFC chip before signing a transaction with it.
Reply
-9 points,5 months ago
No escrow no money, comprende amigo? Go get escrow and come back next month.
Reply
9 points,5 months ago
Must you be rude to everyone in every thread? You talk about professionalism below and you're consistently and needlessly rude to proposal owners and other MNOs. Follow your own advice.
Reply