Proposal “A_Dash_brand_ATM_in_downtown_Lyon“ (Completed)Back

Title:A Dash Brand ATM in downtown Lyon (70 Dash)
Owner:thesavoyard
One-time payment: 70 DASH (13591 USD)
Completed payments: 1 totaling in 70 DASH (0 month remaining)
Payment start/end: 2017-03-20 / 2017-04-19 (added on 2017-03-19)
Votes: 869 Yes / 302 No / 38 Abstain

Proposal description

Please see also see: My pre-proposal
I have been in discussion with Mathew Meek and UdjinM6 and both have been very positive on the benefits to Dash.

Progress Update:
Accounting services secured, CFI Saint Etienne.
Armored car service secured, Loomis! They're international so a relationship will make it easier to expand throughout the EU.
Attorney in negotiation. This won't be difficult, it's just a matter of getting one specialized enough.

Introduction

A proposal to install a Dash branded ATM in Lyon city center.

France has a very low adoption rate for cryptocurrencies. This leaves an opportunity to be the first major accepted digital currency. Dash lacks fungibility for most users and has very low brand recognition outside of the cryptocurrency community

We would be placing a Dash enabled and branded ATM in the Lyon city center.


Why should Dash fund this?

Dash would be branded on the machine. Giving potentially tens of thousands of Dash users easy access. The machine would be BTC enabled but Dash users would have a 2% lower fee for the first few years. Part of the grant would be to prepay the lower fees and part to secure a premium location. With a higher rent means more exposure. Plus, Dash logos on the machine would be permanent. An advertisement that would pay for itself many times over.

Cash to Dash is currently enabled on all General Bytes machines. The sales office informed me Dash to cash would be available in the coming months, most likely summer. The graphics would be installed by the manufacturer so you can be assured of the quality of the Dash logos.

Lyon is a major University city, has a high level of tourism and over 2.2 million people living in the metropolitan area.

I will provide monthly updates on Dash transactions, this will help determine the demand generated by a Dash branded ATM!

Who are we?

My name is Christopher Felix, doing business as disaf.fr (Distributeur automatique France). I own, place, and manage penny press machines in the central France region. I have been in the business for nearly two years and I’m looking to expand to Dash ATMs.

I am American born and have a background in business administration and logistics. In the US I worked for RICOH Logistics USA as an exporter.

I am also an Oxford trained English teacher at the Ecole des Mines in Saint Etienne France. A highly ranked engineering school.

I am currently seeking a certificate in database development and design to improve my technical business knowledge.


My name is Isabelle Felix, I have been a freelance photographer for more than ten years. I contract real estate photography primarily but also provide administrative services to my clients, a local investment firm.

I am French but have lived in the United States and Switzerland as well. I am currently learning web design and development to further my education and provide needed services for my clients.

Grant requested

We would be asking for around 70 Dash. The value of Dash has been more volatile lately so I cannot give you an estimate in Euros. That would include a refund of the 5 Dash application fee. The grant would pay for Dash graphics, a premium rent location and prepay lower fees for Dash users. At 2% lower than BTC, even Bitcoin users would likely buy Dash and then exchange.


It is worth noting that BTCFacile offers partnerships for 2,700 Euros in the area. They offer legal and banking aid to their partners and provide maintenance. They do not have Dash though. A Dash ATM could cost over 25,000 eur in the first year without the existing contracts. I will be carrying the majority of the risk myself.

Show full description ...

Discussion: Should we fund this proposal?

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1 point,3 months ago
I still think this is a good way to serve Dash users. Giving them lower fees and easy on ramps and visibility. Hope more reconsider this one.
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1 point,3 months ago
I'm borderline, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and voting yes. i Hope you will do your best to get the ATM provider to push out a Dash to Cash service on the ATM. You are also taking on sufficient risk yourself for me to believe you have enough skin in the game to see this be a success. Good luck.
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0 points,3 months ago
I just want to remind people, just because the proposal is not in the US does not mean it won't add value to the price of Dash. Worldwide adoption is in the interest of Dash.
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0 points,3 months ago
I agree with that, and I've been a 'no' so far. My concern is not that the ATM isn't US-based (I even prefer it not be), but that I am not convinced ATM's are a meaningful way to reach people with Dash's value proposition right now. Having said that, I could be wrong, and as a group, we seem to be supporting the US-based one, so I am willing to reverse my votes to YES and watch both ATM projects. Make us believers!
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1 point,4 months ago
I have abstained because I would like to see the proposal launched when Dash to cash is available. I can wait, but if the DAO demands it, then please by all means do your best. Cheers and good luck.
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1 point,4 months ago
Like these ATM proposals, and they are so reasonably priced, voting yes. Just curious do you know how much a crypto ATM is going for these days ?
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0 points,4 months ago
Most are around 8k, there are cheaper version for around 3k that are more for low volume areas. I may buy a few for smaller cities in my area due to the fast ROI. I will be working to expand!
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-1 point,4 months ago
Voting No. Crypto is money for the internet. ATMs are money of the physical world. I am not aware of any successful crypto ATM project or any crypto ATM that gets a decent amount of use.
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1 point,4 months ago
I think one of the biggest barriers to cryptocurrency adoption is ease of access. Since most people earn physical money, they need to turn it into digital money easily. While these ATMs do carry risk, there are lots of examples of success!
https://coinatmradar.com/blog/bitcoin-atm-profitability-part-2-real-examples/

We need to reach out to those who are less tech savy as well, ease of use is how we can start!
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0 points,4 months ago
The on-ramps *are* hard. We might need ATMs for a while - but not forever. Not sure about the timing on this one. I've personally done a lot of research about ATM businesses. There's a lot of legal risk in some states. Insurance requirements, and liability risk also.
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1 point,4 months ago
I have a friend in Bogota, Colombia who has an ATM for bitcoin and it is in an office that requires users to make an appointment. It sees about 6 transactions per day. I suppose you would see even more traffic in France. I highly recommend that it be in a location where a person is present at all times the machine is available.
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2 points,4 months ago
Update, I've secured an armored car service! By far the biggest challenge of starting a cryptocurrency ATM. Loomis will be my service provider.
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2 points,4 months ago
Well, I hope people will reconsider this. Many Europeans complain that it's hard to buy Dash. And we all know BATMs charge a high percentage. So having a DATM that will charge very low fees is a huge plus. For those Americans who don't get out much, European cities, even with their smaller population, are densly populated and people walk everywhere. So, I can see a lot of foot traffic seeing the ATM. If thesavoyard would also hold some events, like meetups etc... some day??? he could even get a bunch of people to try it out??!! This could be the beginning of a beautiful .... er.... project!
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1 point,4 months ago
Agreed, I plan to remain active in the Dash community. I will be making a video Friday introducing myself and showing the targeted locations. Lyon is not the only place I plan to put ATMs, I do want to expand to Europe. Cities like Amsterdam put cryptos on the map. We need to establish a strong ground network for Dash fungibility, that will strengthen our argument that Dash is here to take over for BTC.
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0 points,4 months ago
Sounds good, looking forward to your video
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0 points,4 months ago
Just to clarify, film the video Friday. I'm not an expert so don't expect studio quality! It should be posted sometime this weekend.
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0 points,4 months ago
Voting no for now because this is not an ATM where one could exchange Dash for cash. It is only for buying Dash. I'll consider voting yes when a Dash-for-cash option becomes available.
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1 point,4 months ago
The manufacturer told me they expect it to be enabled within months. The BTC to cash option exists so when the software goes live, I'll only have to enable it from the online control panel.
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0 points,4 months ago
Your proposal would be much stronger when the Dash-to-cash option is available. I would be willing to vote yes then.
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0 points,4 months ago
Isn't it good enough that this feature will come in the future?
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0 points,4 months ago
It will take a few months of contract work and planning, negotiating for a leased space etc. Waiting also adds the risk that a BitcoinATM will be placed first, taking a chunk out of our traffic. I don't think I'd risk another $500 just to resubmit in a few months. I think the plan benefits Dash immediately, to be honest.
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1 point,4 months ago
This ATM will only be for buying Dash, correct? Not cashing out Dash for Euro or something... right? Just want to be clear :) Also, does a "few years" as in "Dash users would have a 2% lower fee for the first few years." mean 3 years? Thanks :)
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0 points,4 months ago
Also, three years sounds reasonable since Dash is investing!
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0 points,4 months ago
Good question, General Bytes sales in Prague told me Dash to cash is being developed now (since Dash had a major step up in demand). They said it should be implemented in the next few months. I'll activate it on the machine as long as it remains compliant with regulations! Dash to cash is lower risk than BTC due to fast or instant confirmations.
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1 point,4 months ago
Dash-to-cash is really the goal here in my opinion.
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1 point,4 months ago
Making it easy to buy Dash at low rates is really important. If this works out, I'd be for doing more to reduce fees or expanding the program :)
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0 points,4 months ago
My understanding of the proposal is that this "ATM" will only allow the purchase of DASH with local fiat. In my opinion, someone walking up to an ATM machine to buy DASH with some fiat is unlikely to happen. I personally would never do it, instead, I would wait until I got home (or to my hotel) and buy DASH on an exchange.

What would be *really* helpful, is if the ATM allowed me to exchange my DASH for local fiat. Ideally, if local merchants accepted DASH directly, that would be best. But until then, a DASH-to-fiat ATM is not a bad option.

Please confirm that his ATM allows one to exchange DASH for fiat.
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0 points,4 months ago
FWIW I bought my first 2 bitcoin from an ATM - and preferred it.
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0 points,4 months ago
Actually, according to coin atm radar, 90% of all transactions are buys. So Cash to Dash is a useful benefit, it is the minority of the transactions.
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1 point,4 months ago
I think the usage data generated is of the most value. If there is indeed demand and it is demonstrated, it will attract others to provide this service on a commercial basis in the future.
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0 points,4 months ago
Agreed, I think an ATM brings small increments of demand when compared to the whole of Dash. But it does it over a long period of time. So when there start to be a lot more ATMs, the whole of the system will have a huge impact!
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1 point,4 months ago
Voting yes! I think this is a good location. As I mentioned earlier in the pre-proposal thread, I hope we can gather any relevant usage statistics to show how often it's being used. If successful, this information will be helpful for the MN owners to decide if DASH ATM's can be installed in other major European cities later.
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1 point,4 months ago
As per other similar cases, maybe in a purely competitive scenario for the budget i think that 70K$ (maybe more) may be bit too much. But the budget is fairly big, so the net result of not using money is probably just worse than using it

But before going "yes", i'd like the proposal owner to split the costs a bit more

- ATM cost (the machine)
- Fee cost estimated (given that part of the budget is required for that)
- Rent cost; for how long? What happens next?
- Anything more important to know?

I don't want a full business plan, but some more info before putting Y are well worth ;)
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0 points,4 months ago
Of course, I have run some calculations and the initial cost should be around 15,000 euros for a BatMthree ATM. Th The first year's costs should be about 10,000. I'll have to lease the space and hire an armored car service for the machine. The BatMthree ATM costs 8,000 euros plus graphics cost and VAT tax at roughly 20%.

I should be able to offer 6% to BTC users and 4% to Dash users for 3 years. I cannot guarantee a fee until the contracts are signed. The armored car services can be difficult to negotiate with for cryptocurrency ATMs. Dash will be at a 2% lower fee than BTC whatever the final fees may be.

I hope to get a 1 year least prepaid. I don't want some manager deciding cryptocurrencies are evil and forcing us out. I expect it will be between 250-350 euros downtown. If I am forced to move due to low profits or another reason, I'll replace the machine. Hopefully in the same area. If I can't, I'll move it to another EU city like Amsterdam.

Coindesk has an ATM installation guide online that covers most of the metrics. Their calculations are optimistic but it is possible to do large quantities of transactions. Also, it could take a few months to get the ATM installed. I am aiming for a June release!
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1 point,4 months ago
Wow

Just realized that the cost is 7K, pardon me forgot my Glasses ^^

In this case, I really think that you are getting my upvote. But if you reply to the question, i am happy :)
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1 point,4 months ago
its only $7k i think - much more reasonable.
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1 point,4 months ago
Its a long road, but we gotta start somewhere, even if this is more of a PR stunt than a real benefit to the world. Maybe it will grow into bigger things once the technology is proven.
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0 points,4 months ago
Some of the ATMs do have a significant impact on regional demand, here's a few examples from coin radar:
https://coinatmradar.com/blog/bitcoin-atm-profitability-part-2-real-examples/
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0 points,4 months ago
Please feel free to ask questions here. I am on Eu time so it may be a while if it's late!
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